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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest  (Read 1685 times)

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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2017, 11:18:54 pm »
0


Inheritance is higher than Pathfinding on the 6+ list, but Pathfinding is higher on the event list. weird. (I have Inheritance #1 on events and #6 on 6+.)

Hm, that is indeed weird. Let me look soon if I messed something up as this shouldn't happen at all.
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gloures

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2017, 11:51:05 pm »
0


Inheritance is higher than Pathfinding on the 6+ list, but Pathfinding is higher on the event list. weird. (I have Inheritance #1 on events and #6 on 6+.)

Hm, that is indeed weird. Let me look soon if I messed something up as this shouldn't happen at all.

One possible cause for this is that maybe people who rank Inheritance over Pathfinding put, on average, a bigger gap between them in the 6+ list than the people who rank them the other way around...
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McGarnacle

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2017, 10:16:32 am »
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Surprised Familiar is ahead of Vineyard. Glad to see Possession and Golem switch places. Golem is just such a cool card, too bad it kinda sucks.
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AJD

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2017, 07:55:04 am »
+15

Surprised Familiar is ahead of Vineyard.

Surprised Familiar
Action–Attack
$3P

+1 Card
+1 Action
…Oh! Hi there, sorry, I wasn't ready. No, it's okay, just give me a sec. All right, here we go:
Each other player gains a Curse. There, that should do it.
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Triumph44

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2017, 08:08:33 pm »
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Because Donate can be bought with debt and King's Court cannot be, I'd still have KC over Donate even though there are games where KC is skippable - in a game with Donate, all players will almost certainly use it at some point, but the race to KC in certain games and then lining it up with other actions can really swing things.  It's unlikely that you will ever lose a game just because someone Donated more optimally than you, but you will lose games when your opponent manages to line up his KC with his Swindler/Mountebank/Cultist whatever before you. 

I suppose it's just a question of what the rankings mean.
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traces Around

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2017, 08:24:49 pm »
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It's unlikely that you will ever lose a game just because someone Donated more optimally than you

This is basically how all Donate games are lost.

Also, if you don't buy Donate on a board that it is on, you lose (unless opponent does something stupid), meanwhile there are boards where buying KC is losing.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 08:26:28 pm by traces Around »
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Triumph44

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2017, 12:17:37 am »
+2

It's unlikely that you will ever lose a game just because someone Donated more optimally than you

This is basically how all Donate games are lost.

Also, if you don't buy Donate on a board that it is on, you lose (unless opponent does something stupid), meanwhile there are boards where buying KC is losing.

That seems awfully glib on Donate - you and your opponent may not even be pursuing the same strategy, Dominion being what it is, not to mention the large mitigating factor of shuffle luck which can still manifest itself even after a Donate.
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Titandrake

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2017, 12:29:21 am »
+2

It's unlikely that you will ever lose a game just because someone Donated more optimally than you

This is basically how all Donate games are lost.

Also, if you don't buy Donate on a board that it is on, you lose (unless opponent does something stupid), meanwhile there are boards where buying KC is losing.

That seems awfully glib on Donate - you and your opponent may not even be pursuing the same strategy, Dominion being what it is, not to mention the large mitigating factor of shuffle luck which can still manifest itself even after a Donate.

Sure, there's still shuffle luck, but what you just said applies to any card/event - Goons, King's Court, etc. So it's not a good argument against Donate in particular.

When people pursue different strategies, it's because they don't agree on which one the right one is. Donate has a habit of turning even small mistakes into decisive ones because it chops out massive amounts of shuffle luck.
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O

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2017, 03:00:24 am »
0

It's unlikely that you will ever lose a game just because someone Donated more optimally than you

This is basically how all Donate games are lost.

Also, if you don't buy Donate on a board that it is on, you lose (unless opponent does something stupid), meanwhile there are boards where buying KC is losing.

That seems awfully glib on Donate - you and your opponent may not even be pursuing the same strategy, Dominion being what it is, not to mention the large mitigating factor of shuffle luck which can still manifest itself even after a Donate.

Sure, there's still shuffle luck, but what you just said applies to any card/event - Goons, King's Court, etc. So it's not a good argument against Donate in particular.

When people pursue different strategies, it's because they don't agree on which one the right one is. Donate has a habit of turning even small mistakes into decisive ones because it chops out massive amounts of shuffle luck.

It almost certainly does on net, but by how much really? It removes lots of later shuffle luck but the single highest % "shuffle luck" occurrence is the opening shuffle, and donate very often can make 4-3 vs 3-4 and 5-2 vs 2-5 relevant shuffle luck, while normally it isn't applicable.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2017, 01:01:19 pm »
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I probably haven't played enough empires, but why are Fortune and City Quarter higher rated than Grand Market?
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Jacob marley

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2017, 01:49:17 pm »
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Both have extremely powerful effects, and don't have the awkward no copper restriction on GM.  Especially if there are good engine components and trashing, City Quarter is an absolute must for drawing your deck, then you have 2 actions to play all the actions you just drew.  Name another card that could let you draw up to 4 cards as a first play (more with beginninge of turn handsize increasers) then gives you two actions...

And who doesn't want to double their money.  The hope of doing so is what keeps all the casinos in business.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2017, 02:32:43 pm »
+1

I probably haven't played enough empires, but why are Fortune and City Quarter higher rated than Grand Market?

Because City Quarter is way overrated and Fortune is extremely strong while Grand Market isn't super amazing.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: The rest
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2017, 08:15:41 pm »
+1

I probably haven't played enough empires, but why are Fortune and City Quarter higher rated than Grand Market?

Because City Quarter is way overrated and Fortune is extremely strong while Grand Market isn't super amazing.

I agree with this.
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