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Author Topic: M101: Less Mafia (game over! Scum won!)  (Read 66888 times)

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gkrieg13

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #300 on: June 02, 2017, 01:48:18 pm »

I'm still wanting to lynch O because of the quick hammer and the reasoning for it being bad.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #301 on: June 02, 2017, 02:07:11 pm »

I'm still wanting to lynch O because of the quick hammer and the reasoning for it being bad.

Still a valid reason to lynch O
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gkrieg13

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #302 on: June 02, 2017, 02:09:51 pm »

I'm still wanting to lynch O because of the quick hammer and the reasoning for it being bad.

Still a valid reason to lynch O

I haven't seen a better one to lynch anyone else.
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Robz888

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #303 on: June 02, 2017, 02:10:03 pm »

I'm surprised people aren't trying harder to lynch me. I feel like town!gkrieg would be all over me by now.

Vote: Gkrieg

Why would I want to lynch you?  I don't understand this at all.

I just meant that in most games I can feel you pressuring me by now, and you're not doing that.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #304 on: June 02, 2017, 02:13:04 pm »

Awaclus you are taking a "mistake" or as I call it " not making sure your idea is 3000% fleshed out" and saying it is clearly indicative of O having more information than the rest of us and have thus figured out the alignment of two people because of it. I'm saying town makes those "mistakes" just as often as mafia.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #305 on: June 02, 2017, 02:14:55 pm »

Awaclus you are taking a "mistake" or as I call it " not making sure your idea is 3000% fleshed out" and saying it is clearly indicative of O having more information than the rest of us and have thus figured out the alignment of two people because of it. I'm saying town makes those "mistakes" just as often as mafia.

Though I understand this is just awaclus and I should save my breath.
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Awaclus

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #306 on: June 02, 2017, 02:18:49 pm »

Awaclus you are taking a "mistake" or as I call it " not making sure your idea is 3000% fleshed out" and saying it is clearly indicative of O having more information than the rest of us and have thus figured out the alignment of two people because of it. I'm saying town makes those "mistakes" just as often as mafia.

I'm saying town doesn't make mistakes.
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Robz888

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #307 on: June 02, 2017, 02:30:12 pm »

Awaclus you are taking a "mistake" or as I call it " not making sure your idea is 3000% fleshed out" and saying it is clearly indicative of O having more information than the rest of us and have thus figured out the alignment of two people because of it. I'm saying town makes those "mistakes" just as often as mafia.

I'm saying town doesn't make mistakes.

More of them than scum does.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #308 on: June 02, 2017, 02:31:05 pm »

Awaclus you are taking a "mistake" or as I call it " not making sure your idea is 3000% fleshed out" and saying it is clearly indicative of O having more information than the rest of us and have thus figured out the alignment of two people because of it. I'm saying town makes those "mistakes" just as often as mafia.

I'm saying town doesn't make mistakes.

Vote Count 1.final

gkrieg13 (2): Awaclus, Haddock
Haddock (5): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, Robz888, gkrieg13, O
Robz888 (1): Twistedarcher
Not voting (0):

With 8 alive it took 5 to lynch.

Haddock was lynched.

D2 starts now and ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.


Although from O's scumslip, we can conclude that Haddock was, indeed, town.

That's time I checked either your wrong and haddock was scum or your wrong and at least 3 townies have already made a mistake this game.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #309 on: June 02, 2017, 02:32:36 pm »

Awaclus you are taking a "mistake" or as I call it " not making sure your idea is 3000% fleshed out" and saying it is clearly indicative of O having more information than the rest of us and have thus figured out the alignment of two people because of it. I'm saying town makes those "mistakes" just as often as mafia.

I'm saying town doesn't make mistakes.

More of them than scum does.
He doesn't believe your "theories" based on hundreds of hidden minority games about "alignment tells" and "play patterns" you must use facts.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #310 on: June 02, 2017, 02:36:27 pm »

Town loses like most of the time isn't that by definition town making mistakes. And if your just talking about "slips" I could go grab you endless quotes of town "scumslipping".
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Awaclus

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #311 on: June 02, 2017, 03:17:53 pm »

More of them than scum does.

No, town doesn't make mistakes. We can't afford to.

That's time I checked either your wrong and haddock was scum or your wrong and at least 3 townies have already made a mistake this game.

Voting for a person who is town is not necessarily a mistake.

Town loses like most of the time isn't that by definition town making mistakes.

That's why town loses.


Seriously, check out these games:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17134.0
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16911.0

This goes to show that a town that doesn't make a single mistake is not an unreasonable expectation, not even in a newbie game. And then town doesn't have such a hard time winning anymore.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #312 on: June 02, 2017, 03:33:04 pm »

I'm surprised people aren't trying harder to lynch me. I feel like town!gkrieg would be all over me by now.

Vote: Gkrieg

Why would I want to lynch you?  I don't understand this at all.

I just meant that in most games I can feel you pressuring me by now, and you're not doing that.

Other people are much more worthy of the pressure.  I think considering you are at L-1, I would be much more likely to lynch you if you were scum.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #313 on: June 02, 2017, 03:42:30 pm »

From the first game you posted.

Vote: TWM
He's town btw.

That logic just completely fails to work. But ok.

It works just fine.

Premise 1: It's hard to see scumslips when you have a scum mindset. (That's why scum makes scumslips in the first place)
Premise 2: When you are scum, you have a scum mindset.

Conclusion: It's hard to see scumslips when you are scum.
Look you being all obstinate that your logic is infallible and laying out why you can take one conclusion and lead to many others.

But I guess that is just a big old magic trick from me trying to get Awaclus to townslip by letting us in on the secret. I musta be the mafia!

That wouldn't be a townslip. But it's true that you must be mafia.
You delivering a final conclusion about how your logic means you are sure someone is mafia.

You plant that vote on twm for the rest of the day. No doubt you would have continued if he didn't turn out to be the jailkeeper who jailkept scum and blocked a nk. This game does nothing to prove how town should play a "perfect" game.

This is the last I'm talking about any of this with you though because as I have told myself over and over but haven't listened it's a waste of my time.

Do whatever the hell you want and play however you want, it's a game. Your not even that bad at it, just infuriating.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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Awaclus

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #314 on: June 02, 2017, 04:06:32 pm »

You delivering a final conclusion about how your logic means you are sure someone is mafia.

You plant that vote on twm for the rest of the day. No doubt you would have continued if he didn't turn out to be the jailkeeper who jailkept scum and blocked a nk.

I wasn't sure TWM was mafia, I was just saying I was sure in order to not let scum know what I was actually thinking. The reality of the situation was that I thought LaLight was scummy, so I wanted him to think he had scumslipped somewhere (even though that wasn't really the case at the time) to agitate him and hopefully get an actual scumslip out of him that way, and in order to do that, I had to vote for TWM when he said he couldn't find a scumslip by LL. Obviously that was a true statement from TWM and I very well knew that, so that "logic" wasn't at all the reason why I was voting for him.

In other words, I didn't make a mistake there. TWM didn't really make a mistake either, because he was acting under the same wrong assumption I wanted scum to have and the way he played stemmed from that.


SpaceAnemone did make a mistake in that game though, and they weren't town.
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O

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #315 on: June 02, 2017, 09:32:26 pm »

MCMC what do you think the odds are that three town members would immediately latch onto me like that and not even remotely budge all day?

From my town perspective it's incredibly unlikely. But even from an observer standpoint it seems odd for two of the three players.

Having played with Robz in the past it's very non-characteristic of him IMO, he'd usually go beyond "there's an easy but not great reason to lynch someone, so I'm voting for them and sticking with it". (And my quick-hammer truly is a rather weak reason to gun this hard for the vote. I still haven't seen my explanation refuted that a quickhammer is by far the likeliest way to catch scum D1, I've only seen "I wish you gave time to see a reaction from him" from Gkrieg as a legitimate argument, but remember how inactive the game was right there). 

Obviously Robz might trend towards that behavior (voting for any action he minorly disagrees with) because of the nature of this flipless game, but I think it's just as or more likely that he's scum looking for the easy mislynch where people like you yourself have essentially given them a pass for being on my wagon:

And then after all that gunning for me, and leaving me at L-1 forever Robz hops onto Gkrieg:

I'm surprised people aren't trying harder to lynch me. I feel like town!gkrieg would be all over me by now.

Vote: Gkrieg

Which to be honest I'm having difficultly deciding is a neutral action or a scummy action. Perhaps neutral, as I could see both town!robz and scum!robz say "oh shit, the O lynch hasn't worked so far and it looks like I'm next on the chopping block maybe". I'm definitely not dropping my suspicions of him just because he dropped the vote on me though, leaving his vote for that long while i'm at L-1 still remains.


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mcmcsalot

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #316 on: June 02, 2017, 11:41:45 pm »

I have lots of thoughts to your post O, I think you have hit on some good points but I need to re-evaluate when I'm more sober.
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Awaclus

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #317 on: June 03, 2017, 03:59:56 am »

I still haven't seen my explanation refuted that a quickhammer is by far the likeliest way to catch scum D1

Well, it's a full-random way to catch scum D1. That's a lot worse than scumhunting.
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O

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #318 on: June 03, 2017, 04:08:55 am »

fully random is

1. not what is was in the slightest

2. better than consensus "scumhunting" if two scum are able to induce the consensus and the effect of reads is small

So not only are you misrepresenting what happened, you're mathematically incorrect
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Awaclus

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #319 on: June 03, 2017, 04:29:36 am »

fully random is

1. not what is was in the slightest

2. better than consensus "scumhunting" if two scum are able to induce the consensus and the effect of reads is small

So not only are you misrepresenting what happened, you're mathematically incorrect

Well, I guess scum could have affected the quickhammer so it's worse than full random. Point taken.

It's not better than scumhunting though. Scum can't influence the consensus because there's no evidence against townies.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #320 on: June 03, 2017, 10:01:52 am »

I still haven't seen my explanation refuted that a quickhammer is by far the likeliest way to catch scum D1

Well, it's a full-random way to catch scum D1. That's a lot worse than scumhunting.

Either way, not giving haddock a chance to say something before he was hammered was super scummy.
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O

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #321 on: June 03, 2017, 10:21:38 am »

I still haven't seen my explanation refuted that a quickhammer is by far the likeliest way to catch scum D1

Well, it's a full-random way to catch scum D1. That's a lot worse than scumhunting.

Either way, not giving haddock a chance to say something before he was hammered was super scummy.

It's interesting that you only decided this was "super scummy" after 2 people already got on a wagon on me. Before that you seemed quite reticent about that, just stating that it "wasn't desirable" and that you "would have preferred" that I didn't.

More importantly, why are you bringing that up as if it's some relevant add-on to Awaclus's ridiculous arguments?

Like actually: read Awaclus's statement, and read Gkriegs response. They have nothing to do with each other whatsoever except the already established common suspicion on me. It's quite possible Gkrieg had the motive he wanted to push (Lynch O) before reading/responding to Awaclus's post.

Of course, this could also just be a townie mistake, so it's no smoking gun against Gkrieg.

Unless Gkrieg doesn't believe in townie mistakes of course. We don't know his opinion since he didn't respond to anything Awaclus actually said :p
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gkrieg13

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #322 on: June 03, 2017, 10:26:31 am »

I'm on my phone, so I didn't clip out Awacluss statement. They have nothing to do with each other except that they respond to the same thing from you. It was your quote that I wanted to quote, not Awa's
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gkrieg13

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #323 on: June 03, 2017, 10:28:30 am »

I'm surprised people aren't trying harder to lynch me. I feel like town!gkrieg would be all over me by now.

Vote: Gkrieg

Why would I want to lynch you?  I don't understand this at all.

I just meant that in most games I can feel you pressuring me by now, and you're not doing that.

I still don't get why that makes me the scummiest person in the game
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O

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Re: M101: Less Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #324 on: June 03, 2017, 10:30:56 am »

I'm on my phone, so I didn't clip out Awacluss statement. They have nothing to do with each other except that they respond to the same thing from you. It was your quote that I wanted to quote, not Awa's

If that's the case, why didn't you quote my statement? Because by quoting Awaclus you were very selectively clipping and ignoring:
I've only seen "I wish you gave time to see a reaction from him" from Gkrieg as a legitimate argument, but remember how inactive the game was right there). 


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