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Author Topic: Opulent Castle - do discarded victory cards need to be revealed?  (Read 478 times)

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Dwedit

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Opulent Castle is the only card that lets you discard multiple cards with restrictions on what kinds of cards can be discarded.  Since the official rules for discarding say that you don't need to reveal cards beyond the top discarded card, this could provide an opportunity to cheat by discarding non-victory cards for coins.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Opulent Castle - do discarded victory cards need to be revealed?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2017, 01:11:20 pm »
+2

The rules don't require them to be revealed. There are a few different places on Dominion cards where accountability is not enforced. Moneylender and Throne Room before second edition are simple examples. There are still a few different examples without going to first edition. Graverobber is one (no idea if that will be changed for Dark Ages second edition some day). Quest is another one, here's a thread on it.

Of course, while you don't have to reveal the cards you discard, obviously it is not allowed within the rules to "bluff" and discard non-victory cards. You generally just have to trust that you aren't playing with cheaters. Although Dominion does attempt always have accountability, when you play with other people are you trusting that they aren't secretly grabbing an extra Gold and sticking it in their deck, for example.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 01:13:01 pm by GendoIkari »
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pst

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Re: Opulent Castle - do discarded victory cards need to be revealed?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2017, 01:51:25 pm »
0

And if it's implicit that you should reveal all discarded cards when they have restrictions on them like that, does that mean that if you discard Tunnels with Opulent Castle you have to gain Gold?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Opulent Castle - do discarded victory cards need to be revealed?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2017, 02:02:16 pm »
+2

And if it's implicit that you should reveal all discarded cards when they have restrictions on them like that, does that mean that if you discard Tunnels with Opulent Castle you have to gain Gold?

Well no, because there's a difference between "you may reveal this to gain a Gold" and "gain a Gold when this is revealed". In MTG terms, some cards say "Sacrifice [this creature]: [Effect]". You don't get that effect anytime that creature is sacrificed; you only get the effect if you choose to activate that ability, paying the cost of sacrificing the creature.
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pst

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Re: Opulent Castle - do discarded victory cards need to be revealed?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2017, 04:39:39 pm »
0

And if it's implicit that you should reveal all discarded cards when they have restrictions on them like that, does that mean that if you discard Tunnels with Opulent Castle you have to gain Gold?

Well no, because there's a difference between "you may reveal this to gain a Gold" and "gain a Gold when this is revealed". In MTG terms, some cards say "Sacrifice [this creature]: [Effect]". You don't get that effect anytime that creature is sacrificed; you only get the effect if you choose to activate that ability, paying the cost of sacrificing the creature.

But you are not quoting the card. My question is because of the actual wording of the card.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Opulent Castle - do discarded victory cards need to be revealed?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2017, 06:23:26 pm »
+3

And if it's implicit that you should reveal all discarded cards when they have restrictions on them like that, does that mean that if you discard Tunnels with Opulent Castle you have to gain Gold?

Well no, because there's a difference between "you may reveal this to gain a Gold" and "gain a Gold when this is revealed". In MTG terms, some cards say "Sacrifice [this creature]: [Effect]". You don't get that effect anytime that creature is sacrificed; you only get the effect if you choose to activate that ability, paying the cost of sacrificing the creature.

But you are not quoting the card. My question is because of the actual wording of the card.

The actual wording doesn't change that. No reaction cards have mandatory effects, you have to choose to "activate" that effect. Imagine a card that says "each other player gains a Curse and reveals their hand". Your opponent reveals his hand, which has Watchtower in it. No way is he forced to Topdeck or Trash that Curse just because the Watchtower was revealed. "You may do X to do Y" has never meant "whenever X happens, Y happens".

Tried to think of an example with only real cards where it matters. Closest I can think of is if you discard a single Tunnel. That Tunnel, being on top of your discard pile, is "revealed", but you don't have to choose reveal it and gain a Gold.
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Jeebus

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Re: Opulent Castle - do discarded victory cards need to be revealed?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2017, 11:07:00 pm »
+2

Additionally it says so in the actual Hinterlands rulebook: "Revealing it is optional, even if Tunnel was already revealed for some other reason; you are not forced to gain a Gold."
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