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Author Topic: Help with Watchtower?  (Read 866 times)

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Omastar68

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Help with Watchtower?
« on: May 10, 2017, 07:29:24 pm »
0

I think I understand what makes Watchtower good on a board(discarders, non-drawing villages, junking, Cache, stuff like Port,) but could anyone give me some kingdoms where it isn't worth it? I'm not doubting that there are any, just not sure when to ignore it. I suppose if there's no junking or Cache and you'll always be using the reaction then it's directly outclassed by Royal Seal...but that's way too specific.

A more realistic scenario where it's skippable would help. Much of the time when you're gaining something you want to topdeck or trash it, so that makes it hard to decide.
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DG

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Re: Help with Watchtower?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 07:42:26 pm »
0

The simplest occasions would be when

1) there are better three cost cards or better terminal actions
2) there are better ways to draw cards
3) keeping a watchtower in hand to put stuff on your deck just loses you income
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JThorne

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Re: Help with Watchtower?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2017, 08:15:15 pm »
+2

It may be more useful to look at when it's good.

It's good against junking, whether by the opponent or self-junking-for-benefit cards (watch out for the dreaded "if you do" wording, though...) and against handsize reduction attacks.

But it's draw effect as the only positive has to be used carefully. It only works with disappearing money engines. In BM, it's no better than Moat, and Moat/BM isn't a thing. Even in an engine, it's not enough that you just have "non-drawing Villages." Villa/Watchtower or Shanty Town/Watchtower may be terrible unless you can drop most of the cards that you've drawn on the table before you play your next Watchtower. Villa/Watchtower for 3 cards/Villa/Watchtower for 2 cards/Villa/Watchtower for 1 card? Not good. You've just played 6 cards for $3 and +1 card. You need non-terminal cards that reduce handsize for benefit; even cheap ones work (Pawn for +action/+coin, Oasis, Poacher, Warehouse)

I've skipped it on plenty of kingdoms where there was no junking, or if the game was a clear BM or deck-drawing engine. You feel pretty silly drawing a Watchtower into a 10-card hand.

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JThorne

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Re: Help with Watchtower?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2017, 08:21:32 pm »
+1

One more edge-case: topdeck tricks. Topdecking buys or gains under normal circumstances is so-so. Doing it when you still have actions and can play stuff like Mystic or Herald/Magpie if you can topteck two gains during your action phase can be interesting. Also, if you're good at deck-tracking, consider using the topdeck ability to line up key cards together, such as two Urchins, if you know what's coming up in your next hand.

But again, it comes down to BM vs. Engine. It's not a BM card, and if you're drawing your deck, topdecking a gain is identical to a regular gain if your discard and deck are empty.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 08:24:03 pm by JThorne »
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liopoil

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Re: Help with Watchtower?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2017, 08:40:42 pm »
+10

could anyone give me some kingdoms where it isn't worth it?
Nobody can. Don't listen to the other posters; you should never skip watchtower
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Squidd

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Re: Help with Watchtower?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2017, 08:47:22 am »
+2

(watch out for the dreaded "if you do" wording, though...)
This is an issue with Trader, but you do gain the card before you trash it with Watchtower. So it won't stop you from getting the Triumph VP or whatever else.
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Derg17

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Re: Help with Watchtower?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 12:16:29 am »
+2

Is Cache a reason to go for watchtower? I think your idea here is to trash the incoming coppers and get a "gold" for 5? But if the watchtower was just a copper you would have been able to just buy gold. I guess then you wouldn't be able to top deck it. But even so, watchtower/cache is worse than royal seal/gold. And I don't think Royal Seal/Gold is a power combo. So I suppose to answer your question I would suggest skipping watchtower on cache boards.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 12:20:46 am by Derg17 »
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gloures

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Re: Help with Watchtower?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2017, 01:30:48 am »
+4

Is Cache a reason to go for watchtower? I think your idea here is to trash the incoming coppers and get a "gold" for 5? But if the watchtower was just a copper you would have been able to just buy gold. I guess then you wouldn't be able to top deck it. But even so, watchtower/cache is worse than royal seal/gold. And I don't think Royal Seal/Gold is a power combo. So I suppose to answer your question I would suggest skipping watchtower on cache boards.

I would mostly suggest skipping Cache on Watchtower boards...  :P



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Derg17

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Re: Help with Watchtower?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 09:03:54 am »
0

Is Cache a reason to go for watchtower? I think your idea here is to trash the incoming coppers and get a "gold" for 5? But if the watchtower was just a copper you would have been able to just buy gold. I guess then you wouldn't be able to top deck it. But even so, watchtower/cache is worse than royal seal/gold. And I don't think Royal Seal/Gold is a power combo. So I suppose to answer your question I would suggest skipping watchtower on cache boards.

I would mostly suggest skipping Cache on Watchtower boards...  :P

Haha. Well said!
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Kirian

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Re: Help with Watchtower?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2017, 10:21:44 pm »
+7

Villa/Watchtower for 3 cards/Villa/Watchtower for 2 cards/Villa/Watchtower for 1 card? Not good.

Sure, but you know what is good?  Hand of WT-CCCC, play 4C, buy Villa, play Villa/WT for 6 cards... and so forth.  Only works as long as Villas are in the supply, of course.
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sorawotobu

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Re: Help with Watchtower?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2017, 04:43:01 am »
+3

and if you're drawing your deck, topdecking a gain is identical to a regular gain if your discard and deck are empty.

Uhhh... no? Unless you assume the chance of drawing the deck every turn is 100% and certain cards being in your starting hand (reactions, banes, Provinces in Tournament games etc.) is irrelevant.
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