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Author Topic: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)  (Read 105045 times)

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gkrieg13

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1750 on: May 20, 2017, 12:22:36 pm »

Setup seems a little favored toward town, no? Even if you just took away the 1-shot Commuter--whose true PR was "named townie" here, but man did it help--things would have shaken out quite differently. Maybe then it would be too tough for town, though.

I think it depends on if non-VTs ever die. Even one more death would've favored it towards scum
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schadd

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1751 on: May 20, 2017, 12:26:58 pm »

Setup seems a little favored toward town, no? Even if you just took away the 1-shot Commuter--whose true PR was "named townie" here, but man did it help--things would have shaken out quite differently. Maybe then it would be too tough for town, though.
i would think probably yes. goon/goon/traitor in 12p where scum can only improve their situation is even, and this setup is town-favored in comparison by virtue of having a bunch more stuff. that said, town winrate on this site is yikes
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faust

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1752 on: May 20, 2017, 12:31:03 pm »

Yeah, 2.7's stellar blocking probably carried the day.

By the way, I think that was my first time being a Serial Killer in a game of mafia.

So I think Faust shot you, but did you use strongman and bulletproof N4?

Yeah, I strong killed him, and I lost my investigative immunity so my bulletproof got used up as well.
So I could have won had I read you correctly. Damn.
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faust

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1753 on: May 20, 2017, 12:33:14 pm »

Setup seems a little favored toward town, no? Even if you just took away the 1-shot Commuter--whose true PR was "named townie" here, but man did it help--things would have shaken out quite differently. Maybe then it would be too tough for town, though.
Every setup where no PRs die until D3 is going to play out well for town.

I was a bit harsh that there are no real fakeclaim opportunities that don't instantly put you in a one-on-one situation, at least not once SK is confirmed.
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LaLight

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1754 on: May 20, 2017, 12:37:39 pm »

Setup seems a little favored toward town, no? Even if you just took away the 1-shot Commuter--whose true PR was "named townie" here, but man did it help--things would have shaken out quite differently. Maybe then it would be too tough for town, though.

I wonder how the game would be played if you killed not mcmc but yet another vt
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faust

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1755 on: May 20, 2017, 12:38:14 pm »

Ehhh. Sorry team. (Blame me, not the mod.)

Actually I was torn. In the every end of the night I was reading Eevee's QT to see if maybe I forget to tell him he's roleblocker. After that I was really deeply thinking about how should I tell him he's Roleblocker and I decided I won't. After that I've seen a lot of discussion in-thread about ho Traitor might roleblock and thought that may be Eevee will see it...

Overall, should I have said, like, No one was chosen for Roleblocking or something like that?

Usually I post "no action taken" after the deadline. Having failed to submit the action would have already hurt their faction, and it might be too hard on the rest of the faction if it continues. See M99 wherein Jimmmmm forgot to place a N1 Watcher investigation.
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faust

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1756 on: May 20, 2017, 12:39:19 pm »

Setup seems a little favored toward town, no? Even if you just took away the 1-shot Commuter--whose true PR was "named townie" here, but man did it help--things would have shaken out quite differently. Maybe then it would be too tough for town, though.
i would think probably yes. goon/goon/traitor in 12p where scum can only improve their situation is even, and this setup is town-favored in comparison by virtue of having a bunch more stuff. that said, town winrate on this site is yikes
Well, that comparison only really works for games with no SK.
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2.71828.....

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1757 on: May 20, 2017, 01:16:06 pm »

Setup seems a little favored toward town, no? Even if you just took away the 1-shot Commuter--whose true PR was "named townie" here, but man did it help--things would have shaken out quite differently. Maybe then it would be too tough for town, though.

Well, it might feel that way since scum lost a night kill two nights with me JKing faust
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Robz888

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1758 on: May 20, 2017, 01:56:06 pm »

Yeah. Well anyway, it's nice to have town win one for a change!
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1759 on: May 20, 2017, 05:37:54 pm »

I knew I had a townie vibe going into Day 2! Even mafia thought so and wanted to kill me!you scummy guys really had me questioning myself really hard there. Well done.
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1760 on: May 20, 2017, 05:41:24 pm »

Although I guess it is more that I was unlikely to be JKed, which isn't nearly as flattering. Oh well.
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LaLight

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1761 on: May 22, 2017, 12:02:32 pm »

2.71828..... is MVP!
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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1762 on: May 22, 2017, 03:25:03 pm »

My first MVP! Thanks. I had a great time with this game
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gkrieg13

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1763 on: May 23, 2017, 09:21:43 pm »

Oh ya, I said I would discuss the resolution order after the game.  I was curious how other people interpreted the action resolution chain.

So I disagree that when a JK and a roleblocker target each other, the roleblocker is still able to kill.  The OP states that "(roles listed earlier in parenthesis will be performed simultaneously)" . To me, that implies that the jailkeeping and the roleblocking both go through at the same time, which means that both people are blocked, which means the roleblocking mafia can't kill.

How do other people feel about this?
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1764 on: May 23, 2017, 10:01:22 pm »

My first MVP! Thanks. I had a great time with this game
Yay!
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Wins: M91, M96, NM10, M98, M102, M105
Losses: M100, M103, M104, M109, M112

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schadd

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1765 on: May 23, 2017, 11:03:42 pm »

Oh ya, I said I would discuss the resolution order after the game.  I was curious how other people interpreted the action resolution chain.

So I disagree that when a JK and a roleblocker target each other, the roleblocker is still able to kill.  The OP states that "(roles listed earlier in parenthesis will be performed simultaneously)" . To me, that implies that the jailkeeping and the roleblocking both go through at the same time, which means that both people are blocked, which means the roleblocking mafia can't kill.

How do other people feel about this?
my belief has been that, from a balance-y perspective, jailing the person who does the kill is +1 point to town and blocking the jailer is +1 point to scum, so it evens out and the kill goes through. but i thought about it more and it's like, jailing roleblocker should be like +1 point for jailing the killer and plus like .5 points for jailing the roleblocker. so, uh, ideally the kill half goes through.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1766 on: May 24, 2017, 12:16:45 am »

But my counter argument would be that they go through simultaneously, so if it were a kill, your way says that only one kill would count instead of both kills going through.
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faust

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1767 on: May 24, 2017, 03:13:23 am »

Oh ya, I said I would discuss the resolution order after the game.  I was curious how other people interpreted the action resolution chain.

So I disagree that when a JK and a roleblocker target each other, the roleblocker is still able to kill.  The OP states that "(roles listed earlier in parenthesis will be performed simultaneously)" . To me, that implies that the jailkeeping and the roleblocking both go through at the same time, which means that both people are blocked, which means the roleblocking mafia can't kill.

How do other people feel about this?
I think there's no such thing in mafia as things happening simultaneously, that is an error in the OP and it should be clearly stated in which order they are resolved.
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ashersky

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1768 on: May 24, 2017, 06:53:45 am »

Resolution order should clearly delineate which one happens first so this isn't a problem.

So, you have either:

JK jails RB Killer, RB Killer can take no actions and is protected from one NK.
RB blocks JK, fails due to being jailed.
RB kills VT, fails due to being jailed.

Or

RB blocks JK, JK can take no actions.
JK targets RB Killer, fails due to being blocked.
RB kills VT.

For me, since the ruling is that both actions resolve simultaneously...either both succeed or both fail, mod's discretion that needs to be kept consistent (and public).  If they both succeed, no kills to follow.  If they both fail, kill can happen.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1769 on: May 24, 2017, 09:58:47 am »

So to both of you, what do you think of the situation where both scum kill each other?
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ashersky

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1770 on: May 24, 2017, 12:09:38 pm »

So to both of you, what do you think of the situation where both scum kill each other?

My personal resolution chain favors the JK.  So it beats RB.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1771 on: May 24, 2017, 12:27:46 pm »

So to both of you, what do you think of the situation where both scum kill each other?

My personal resolution chain favors the JK.  So it beats RB.

But wouldn't not having both of them be blocked, when transferred over to both having killing actions, result in only one of the kills going through, and the second kill failing because the killer was dead?
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ashersky

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1772 on: May 24, 2017, 12:42:02 pm »

So to both of you, what do you think of the situation where both scum kill each other?

My personal resolution chain favors the JK.  So it beats RB.

But wouldn't not having both of them be blocked, when transferred over to both having killing actions, result in only one of the kills going through, and the second kill failing because the killer was dead?

RB is jailed, can't block or kill.  If JK then tried to kill the RB, it would fail due how jailor protection.

Not sure I understand the question.
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faust

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1773 on: May 25, 2017, 05:11:35 pm »

So to both of you, what do you think of the situation where both scum kill each other?

My personal resolution chain favors the JK.  So it beats RB.

But wouldn't not having both of them be blocked, when transferred over to both having killing actions, result in only one of the kills going through, and the second kill failing because the killer was dead?
I think of the resolution in this case as follows: players don't actually die until all actions have been resolved. Prior to that, they are merely "flagged for death", so to speak. I try to make that clear when writing role PMs.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M98: Русская Mafia (Game over! Town won!)
« Reply #1774 on: May 25, 2017, 06:34:04 pm »

So to both of you, what do you think of the situation where both scum kill each other?

My personal resolution chain favors the JK.  So it beats RB.

But wouldn't not having both of them be blocked, when transferred over to both having killing actions, result in only one of the kills going through, and the second kill failing because the killer was dead?

RB is jailed, can't block or kill.  If JK then tried to kill the RB, it would fail due how jailor protection.

Not sure I understand the question.

Sorry, completely different scenario. No RB, no JK, just two scum shooting each other
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