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[ackmondual]

I'll leave it to the community if they want to separate them into categories like below (benefits player, penalty, misc., whatever), or just lump them all together.

+1 action (from Lost Arts $6)
+1 card (Pathfinder $8)
+1 buy (From Seaway $5, Teacher)
+1 coin (from Training $6)

-2 coin cost (from Ferry $3)
Trashing token (from Plan $3)

Inheritance token (from Inheritance $7)
Journey token (multiple)

-1 coin (multiple)
-1 card draw (multiple)

[dedicateddan]

1. + Card
2. + Action
3. + Coin
4. Inheritance
5. -2 Cost
6. + Buy
7. Trashing
8. Journey
9. -Card
10. -1 Coin

[LaLight]

*ahem**ahem*bracket*ahem*

[faust]

1. Inheritance
2. +card
3. +action
4. -2$
5. +buy
6.+1$
7. Trashing
8. -card
9. -1$
10. Journey

[Beyond Awesome]

1. Inheritance
2. +Card
3. +Action
4. +Buy
5. -2 cost
6. + Coin
7. - Coin
8. Journey
9. Trashing
10. - Card

[GendoIkari]

Is the rating purely by effect, or by overall power which would include cost to get? If the former, Donald has already provided something of a ranking in the different price points by if the events that give each; at least for some of them.

[A Drowned Kernel]

White
Green
Blue
Red
Orange
Yellow

[Kirian]

+Card
Inheritance
+Coin
+Action = +Buy
-2 Cost
Planning
Journey token
-Coin
-Card

[McGarnacle]

I actually think the +1 Action is the strongest, i.e. the most game changing. +1 Card or nice, but it doesn't change a card as dramatically IMHO.

[Jacob marley]

There is a case to be made for -2 cost whenever there is a vital 5 cost card in the kingdom since on 3/4 or 4/3 it guarantees you getting the 5 cost card before the first reshuffle.

[Chris is me]

I actually think the +1 Action is the strongest, i.e. the most game changing. +1 Card or nice, but it doesn't change a card as dramatically IMHO.

There are many many more cantrips than terminal draw cards, ergo there are many more boards without draw than there are boards without a cantrip.

[Awaclus]

I actually think the +1 Action is the strongest, i.e. the most game changing. +1 Card or nice, but it doesn't change a card as dramatically IMHO.

There are many many more cantrips than terminal draw cards, ergo there are many more boards without draw than there are boards without a cantrip.

No strategy relies on having cantrips in the kingdom. What makes the +1 Action strong is not that it allows you to have cantrips in a kingdom that previously didn't have any cantrips because who cares whether or not there are any cantrips in the kingdom, it's that it splits actions. For instance, a deck that was previously able to play 1 Bridge per turn might now be able to play 8 Bridges, which is a lot more amazing than being able to play 8 Candlestick Makers.

To demonstrate why it's strong to be able to play more copies of cards that were originally terminal, think of Lab and Smithy. If you put the +1 Action token on Smithy and the +1 Card token on Lab, you have the exact same effect on both but one of those cards costs $4 and the other costs $5.

[McGarnacle]

I actually think the +1 Action is the strongest, i.e. the most game changing. +1 Card or nice, but it doesn't change a card as dramatically IMHO.

There are many many more cantrips than terminal draw cards, ergo there are many more boards without draw than there are boards without a cantrip.

No strategy relies on having cantrips in the kingdom. What makes the +1 Action strong is not that it allows you to have cantrips in a kingdom that previously didn't have any cantrips because who cares whether or not there are any cantrips in the kingdom, it's that it splits actions. For instance, a deck that was previously able to play 1 Bridge per turn might now be able to play 8 Bridges, which is a lot more amazing than being able to play 8 Candlestick Makers.

To demonstrate why it's strong to be able to play more copies of cards that were originally terminal, think of Lab and Smithy. If you put the +1 Action token on Smithy and the +1 Card token on Lab, you have the exact same effect on both but one of those cards costs $4 and the other costs $5.

Good point. I didn't even remember to list the fact that LA lets you basically have villages. Just another reason I think it is the strongest token.

[Chris is me]

I actually think the +1 Action is the strongest, i.e. the most game changing. +1 Card or nice, but it doesn't change a card as dramatically IMHO.

There are many many more cantrips than terminal draw cards, ergo there are many more boards without draw than there are boards without a cantrip.

No strategy relies on having cantrips in the kingdom. What makes the +1 Action strong is not that it allows you to have cantrips in a kingdom that previously didn't have any cantrips because who cares whether or not there are any cantrips in the kingdom, it's that it splits actions. For instance, a deck that was previously able to play 1 Bridge per turn might now be able to play 8 Bridges, which is a lot more amazing than being able to play 8 Candlestick Makers.

To demonstrate why it's strong to be able to play more copies of cards that were originally terminal, think of Lab and Smithy. If you put the +1 Action token on Smithy and the +1 Card token on Lab, you have the exact same effect on both but one of those cards costs $4 and the other costs $5.

To spell this out for you:

Pathfinding + cantrip = nonterminal draw
Lost Arts + Terminal draw = nonterminal draw

I don't know what point you thought I was making, but my point was, more kingdoms lack draw cards and need more card draw than lack nonterminals and need a card draw made nonterminal. Obviously Lost Arts is incredibly powerful and in the contrived scenario where you have Lab, Smithy, Pathfinding, and Lost Arts, you should Lost Arts Smithy. But I'm saying Pathfinding more often makes a difference - you sometimes don't need Lost Arts, but you so very rarely skip Pathfinding.

[McGarnacle]

I actually think the +1 Action is the strongest, i.e. the most game changing. +1 Card or nice, but it doesn't change a card as dramatically IMHO.

There are many many more cantrips than terminal draw cards, ergo there are many more boards without draw than there are boards without a cantrip.

No strategy relies on having cantrips in the kingdom. What makes the +1 Action strong is not that it allows you to have cantrips in a kingdom that previously didn't have any cantrips because who cares whether or not there are any cantrips in the kingdom, it's that it splits actions. For instance, a deck that was previously able to play 1 Bridge per turn might now be able to play 8 Bridges, which is a lot more amazing than being able to play 8 Candlestick Makers.

To demonstrate why it's strong to be able to play more copies of cards that were originally terminal, think of Lab and Smithy. If you put the +1 Action token on Smithy and the +1 Card token on Lab, you have the exact same effect on both but one of those cards costs $4 and the other costs $5.

To spell this out for you:

Pathfinding + cantrip = nonterminal draw
Lost Arts + Terminal draw = nonterminal draw

I don't know what point you thought I was making, but my point was, more kingdoms lack draw cards and need more card draw than lack nonterminals and need a card draw made nonterminal. Obviously Lost Arts is incredibly powerful and in the contrived scenario where you have Lab, Smithy, Pathfinding, and Lost Arts, you should Lost Arts Smithy. But I'm saying Pathfinding more often makes a difference - you sometimes don't need Lost Arts, but you so very rarely skip Pathfinding.

So the question is what is better- More game warping or less skippable?

[Chris is me]

Hard to say. And that isn't to say Pathfinding is less game warping, either - plenty of boards lack draw, just as many lack +Action. I actually wonder what the total number of "real" draw cards vs splitters (to be generous to Awaclus) is.

[Awaclus]

I don't know what point you thought I was making, but my point was, more kingdoms lack draw cards and need more card draw than lack nonterminals and need a card draw made nonterminal. Obviously Lost Arts is incredibly powerful and in the contrived scenario where you have Lab, Smithy, Pathfinding, and Lost Arts, you should Lost Arts Smithy. But I'm saying Pathfinding more often makes a difference - you sometimes don't need Lost Arts, but you so very rarely skip Pathfinding.

Ah, so you're comparing these two scenarios:

There is a terminal draw you can Lost Arts but there isn't a cantrip you can Pathfind
There is a cantrip you can Pathfind but there isn't a terminal draw you can Lost Arts

and concluding that Pathfinding is better than Lost Arts solely because scenario #2 is more common. That's not a very good method of comparing the two, because not only are you comparing a rare edge case against another rare edge case and ignoring the more common situation in which both nonterminals and drawers are present, you are also comparing the way in which Pathfinding is used almost every time against the way in which Lost Arts is used maybe 30-60% of the time.

The thing is, buying Lost Arts is almost always strictly better than gaining 4-5 Villages for free (because you have guaranteed collision if you're putting it on a terminal, which you don't necessarily have to do by the way). Buying Pathfinding is almost always strictly worse than gaining 5 Labs for free (because you have to spend gains on stuff you wouldn't have wanted so many copies of otherwise, aka cantrips). 5 Labs for free are nice, but you don't actually buy 5 Labs per game very often, whereas you do actually buy 5 splitters per game very often. In other words, Lost Arts quite directly reduces the number of gains you need to build your deck by 3-4, and Pathfinding doesn't do quite that.

So the question is what is better- More game warping or less skippable?

That's not really a question worth anyone's time, though. It doesn't make any difference. If both of them are present in a given kingdom, you don't care whether or not one of them is less skippable in other kingdoms. What's more important to consider is the practical in-game reasons that make them stronger or weaker, because that'll affect how you build your deck (and it's the reasons that are important to consider, your conclusion is not that important either).

[terminalCopper]

The point I am still missing is that it is a lot easier to hit 6$ with a drawer than 8$ with a cantrip. Example given, smithy-silver has a decent shot at 6$ right after the first shuffle, but it's tough to get 8$ by stacking heralds.

[McGarnacle]

+1 Card can turn cantrips into draw or draw into better draw. The first is by far more useful.

+1 Action can turn a terminal into a nonterminal or a cantrip into a village. Both of those are huge. Plus LA is cheaper.

[Chris is me]

and concluding that Pathfinding is better than Lost Arts solely because scenario #2 is more common.

That isn't what I said, once again. I never said a word about anything being better than anything, and I wasn't even responding to a post about how much better one card is than another. The post said "the most game changing".

That's not a very good method of comparing the two, because not only are you comparing a rare edge case against another rare edge case and ignoring the more common situation in which both nonterminals and drawers are present,

You seriously act like 90% of boards are "perfect engines", and dismiss literally any argument assuming a less than perfect engine as a "rare edgecase". guess what dude, the presence of either event at all is a rare edgecase too! Checkmate, right??? Haha it's an edgecase. I win!!!

Not to put too fine a point on it, but boards without splitters, and boards without good terminal draw, are not exactly rare edgecases. Certainly you'll see one or the other after just a couple of games online. How much does the game change if every random board also has Lost Arts, and how much does the game change if every random board also has Pathfinding? Both change dramatically, but I would give the slight edge to Pathfinding. Boards without great draw aren't exactly out of the ordinary. Neither are boards without splitters, but I think splitters (or cantrip payload) seem to be more common.

[Awaclus]

and concluding that Pathfinding is better than Lost Arts solely because scenario #2 is more common.

That isn't what I said, once again. I never said a word about anything being better than anything, and I wasn't even responding to a post about how much better one card is than another. The post said "the most game changing".

I don't think this point is really worth arguing about, but fwiw the post did say "the strongest".

You seriously act like 90% of boards are "perfect engines", and dismiss literally any argument assuming a less than perfect engine as a "rare edgecase". guess what dude, the presence of either event at all is a rare edgecase too! Checkmate, right??? Haha it's an edgecase. I win!!!

Not to put too fine a point on it, but boards without splitters, and boards without good terminal draw, are not exactly rare edgecases. Certainly you'll see one or the other after just a couple of games online. How much does the game change if every random board also has Lost Arts, and how much does the game change if every random board also has Pathfinding? Both change dramatically, but I would give the slight edge to Pathfinding. Boards without great draw aren't exactly out of the ordinary. Neither are boards without splitters, but I think splitters (or cantrip payload) seem to be more common.

I didn't say they are "perfect engines", I said they probably have one or more cantrips and one or more drawers. That isn't inherently anywhere near a perfect engine. The fact that the events are rare by themselves is even more of a reason to not solely focus on the rare edge cases of what's already a rare edge case. I'm not sure if you noticed, but my method of comparing the two applies universally, not just under specific circumstances regardless of how anyone wants to define the terms "rare" and "edge case".

[dedicateddan]

There are definitely boards where the +action token is better than the +card token, especially boards with terminal draw and few villages. These boards are getting less common the release of more non-terminal actions in Empires and the second edition revisions. And - there are some boards where the +action token does very little, specifically on boards that don't lend themselves to multi-terminal turns.

In general, though, the +card token is pretty busted. Especially on Throne Room variants. Especially if you have disciples in your deck. Give it a spin!