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Aquila

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Dominion: Revolution
« on: March 10, 2017, 03:30:48 pm »
+14

The Industrial Revolution followed and built on the Renaissance. So does this fan set.

I've been fidgeting with Revolution for a while, but it's finally found a home as an extension to the Renaissance expansion. If you like Renaissance but wished it were more suited for advanced, high-skill play, well this aims to satisfy that. It borrows all of Renaissance's mechanics, and makes an overall theme of resource control. You'd theoretically print this off and mix it with Renaissance, but I've tried to make it also work well as a standalone set and mix fine with any of the others. The final goal is 400 would-be cards, so there's room for more yet.

Mechanics: as well as Duration cards, Coffers, Villagers and Artifacts, I've included: a variation on Projects that I've called Prospects; two States (featured in Nocturne); portrait cards not in the Supply (like in Dark Ages and Nocturne), and overpaying (from Guilds).

TL;DR
Here's the set in miniature. Click a card to enlarge it. New mechanics explained below.

Kingdom cards:


Non-Supply cards:
 

Landscape cards:






(A note on the use of internet images: the only intended purpose of these card mock-ups is to present the ideas on this forum thread in an easy to understand format. I do not intend to print them out or post them anywhere else online. If I later do, I will create my own artwork.)


Explaining the new mechanics

Exhausted

Quote
Exhausted - State
When you next have unused Actions (Actions, not Action cards) during your Action Phase, immediately return this and -1 Action.
Villagers give you Actions in reserve, making them more like a currency. Exhausted takes this further by letting you owe an Action. After taking this, whenever you next have useable Actions, you immediately lose one, even if you have no Action cards to play. You could spend a Villager at any time during your Action phase to return this at any time. If you end your Action phase still having Exhausted, it will stay over to next turn, and be returned at the start to take away your starting Action. And you're only allowed one Exhausted at a time, for simplicity and balance reasons.

Delayed

Quote
Delayed - State
Non-Victory cards you buy are gained onto this (they are not in play). After your Buy phase, for every $1 unspent you may discard a card on this. When the last card is discarded, return this.
From an extra setback to get around at the Action phase, to one at the Buy phase. Every card you buy that generally improves your deck gets delayed from entering it until you buy them in for $1 more, though if you can get a card to be gained elsewhere you can avoid this. There are other ways to delay cards besides buying them. Each card that uses this does so in different ways, so more explanation at each one. Overall, you have to consider not only the extra $ you need to get your cards, but also when to get them.

Prospects
Just like Projects, they're effects you buy once and then put a cube on. But unlike Projects, they are one-off effects rather than ones that last for the rest of the game. For the most part, timing is key to getting the best out of them.


INDIVIDUAL ANALYSIS
An explanation of each card, then my thoughts on its design positives (+) and negatives (-). I have confidence in every card here; I only mention the negatives to keep modest and realistic, and for those interested in Dominion design theory.


Quote
Advancing Village - Action, $4 cost.
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Villager

-
When you discard this from play, exchange it for an Industrial Town.
Quote
Industrial Town - Action, $5* cost.
Choose one: +3 Cards; or trash 2 cards from your hand; or gain a card costing up to $4.
-
When you discard this from play, exchange it for an Advancing Village.
(This is not in the Supply.)
A card that starts as a Village, becomes a working town that draws cards and does things to improve your draw, but then becomes a Village again, and so on. Try to carry the Villagers over to the Industrial Town plays, and manage the two modes of the card well, and you have a concise engine setup.
+: it achieves a sensible use of Villagers, and involves some skill which is hopefully well rewarded.
-: you have to remember switching the cards around at every Clean-up...


Quote
Colliery - Action, $5 cost.
+1 Buy
+ $1

Choose one: +1 Action; or take Exhausted, and if you do, double your $.
And here is the first card using Exhausted. You can either play this as a weak non-terminal Action, or as a 'double-terminal' using 2 Actions and get big payload.
+: this would add unique deck strategies to the game.
-: without any real testing yet, I can't conclude that this is balanced. It can take a lot of effort to make it pay off, so it could cost $4.

Components is one big group to look at. I've put it last.


Quote
Diary - Treasure, $5 cost.
$2
When you play this, you may put a card from your hand onto your deck. If you do, +1 Villager.
A simple one, put something back onto the deck and get a Villager. It sorts out terminal Action collisions, but getting Villagers outside the Action phase has its advantages anyway.
+: others have called this elegant, and I agree.
-: it could be too strong with terminal draw.


Quote
Dismiss - Action, $2 cost.
+1 Card
+1 Action

You may discard a card, to reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a differently named card that shares a type with it. Put that card into your hand and discard the rest.
Change a card in your hand for one in your deck that you need more right now, be it an Action you need to play earlier in the turn, or a better Treasure, or an actually useful Victory, etc.
+: a card that will help any deck and is a failsafe $2 to pick up, but better skill enhances how useful it is.
-: it's wordy.


Quote
Diversion - Action Attack, $5 cost.
+2 Coffers
Each other player takes Delayed. Those with 5 or fewer cards on it reveal the top 2 cards of their deck, put one costing from $3-$6 onto it, them discard the rest.
One of the cards using Delayed, giving it out as an Attack. You can only be Delayed once, so if opponents already have it they don't need to do anything here. As well as the buying setback, this then delays cards right from their decks; nothing says Delayed can only hold bought cards. This means they can have a card miss a shuffle and it be like an implied - $1 token. Or more shuffles are missed if that $1 isn't paid. To balance this, the delay from deck only works with 5 or fewer cards delayed, and can work on Victory cards. It's like a softer Knight. Coffers can get a card off Delayed, so this gives victims extra flexibility here as well.
+: it's a different way to Attack. That's one advantage to making new mechanics.
-: could be too similar to Villain. 6 cards cap may be too high.


Quote
Entrepreneur - Action Reaction, $2 cost.
+1 Action
+ $1

If the Entrepreneur Supply pile is empty, draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
-
When another player trashes a card, you may return this to the Supply, to gain a card costing up to $5.
He starts out as a Copper in Action form. But you invest with him; if either the pile empties or you catch someone else trashing with him in your hand, he can become a much better card. There's a catch to be aware of. When someone reacts with him, the pile is filled up more. Trashers and investors alike are kept on their toes.
+: this weakens trashing whilst adding player interaction, two great things.
-: drawing to 6 cards may not quite be the emptying bonus to go with.


Quote
Farm - Action Duration Victory, $6 cost.
For the rest of the game, for every Victory card you gain during each of your turns, draw an extra card for your next hand.
(This stays in play.)
1 VP
A Hireling that increases the size of your next turn's hand for every Victory card you gain this turn. It's a Victory itself for some self-synergy, and for VP that stays out of the deck when played.
+: it has the feel of being interesting, assessing whether the improved consistency when greening late game is worth the investment early.
-: I can't conclude it is worthwhile yet. $6 may be too expensive or 1 VP too little.


Quote
Foreign Art - Treasure, $5 cost.
$4
+1 Buy

When you play this, take Delayed and put this on it.
Taking Delayed for yourself. You get a big spike of money, but you usually have to wait for what you buy or make that spike a little less. This also delays itself, to let the spike be a bit bigger. When you go for this, you either need the money or you want to buy things to use later.
+: this opens up new strategies in buying things to save for later.
-: it could compare too favourably to Wine Merchant.


Quote
Furnace - Action, $4 cost.
When you buy this or play it: trash a card from your hand. If it...
costs $4 or more, +2 Coffers;
is a Treasure, +1 Villager;
isn't a Treasure, you may trash another card from your hand.
A trash-for-benefit that works on buy for some extra function. Good cards can become Coffers, Treasures Villagers, and non-Copper junk fuel to burn more junk. When a Furnace trashes itself, you get both Coffers and more trashing.
+: some interesting decision making involved.
-: possibly too strong or doing too much.


Quote
Local Art - Treasure, $4 cost.
When you play this, discard a card for + $2.
-
When you first gain Local Art on each of your turns, +4 Cards, +1 Buy, then play any number of Treasures from your hand.
Once every turn, you can gain this to draw 4 cards. Then you can play Treasures; this makes buying it not so bad, and overall gives it a lot of different uses depending on when you gain it and what kind of deck you have. The on-play is a weak Silver to balance this.
+: a lot of uses makes for a lot of different strategies available with this.
-: it's very radical and could easily be imbalanced.


Quote
Mail Coach - Action, $6 cost.
+1 Buy
This turn, cards cost $2 less unless you've gained a copy of them during the turn, but not less than $0.
A Bridge variant that applies to each different card in the Supply once. Even if you gain a card between playing 2 Mail Coaches, the second Coach won't reduce that card's cost again.
+: it seems simple yet effective.
-: it could be too strong with some Cornucopia cards; I haven't tested this, but I hope they make for balanced combos.


Quote
Parade - Action Victory, $5 cost.
+1 Card
+1 Action
4 VP

-
When you gain this, unless you have the same number of Actions and Treasures in play, trash it.
A source of VP you can turn to when you get the same number of Actions and Treasures in play. This can be quite a rare accomplishment so when you can get it, because this is a cantrip you don't mind adding it to the deck that much.
+: there's a bit of skill involved in getting this, and it's nice to reward skill directly with VP.
-: the bottom text is tiny! And perhaps it's too chance based.


Quote
Playwright - Action, $4 cost.
+1 Action
+ $1

Look at the top and bottom cards of your deck. You may trash one of them.
This turn, when you play an Action of which there's a copy in the trash, take the Pen.
Quote
Pen - Artifact
At Clean-up, you may set aside an Action when you discard it from play. If you do, at the start of your next turn, play it.
Play the Playwright and then a copy of an Action in the trash, and you get a better Prince. Players decide what Actions take the Pen, and they must play them as often as possible so that the powerful effect can be shared around.
+: this seems like a nice way to get an Artifact.
-: perhaps too game defining, or not simple enough.


Quote
Potteries - Action, $5 cost.
Trash a card from your hand. Either gain a Victory card costing up to $2 more than it, or gain an Action and a Treasure card each costing up to $2 more than it.
A Remodel variant that gets lots of good stuff, but not when you're turning the stuff into Victory cards.
+: it plays differently to other Remodels and fits this set.
-: it feels a bit bland, but it's fine...?


Quote
Revolters - Action Attack, $4 cost.
+ $1
Each other player may take Exhausted. Those who don't gain a Curse.
An Attack that tries to take an Action away from the opponents. Forcibly doing this would be imbalanced, so they can also take a crow.
+: it adds a new decision for players to think about.
-: it's a shame that this is basically a curser, that trashing and the crows emptying make the -1 Action part trivial.


Quote
Steelworks - Action, $4 cost.
+1 Villager
You may gain a card costing exactly the number of your Villager tokens in $. If it's a Victory card, -2 Villagers.
Your Villagers become an independent currency. You can keep this at a particular price point and make it non-terminal, or make it your principal payload, or do other things. Getting Victories comes at a premium though.
+: it's flexible and calls for good strategy and some skill.
-: this was made before Renaissance was revealed, and now some cards in it could make this imbalanced, especially Acting Troupe.


Quote
Taskmaster - Action, $5 cost.
Look through your discard pile. You may play an Action from it twice.
This turn, you may put one of your cards onto your deck when you discard it from play.
A Throne Room that targets something in the discard pile. For consistency, it can also Scheme things.
+: it has several compelling uses, and feels like a fun combination of effects.
-: it could be too strong at some of these uses. And now Mountain Village makes this look less interesting.


Quote
Textile Mill - Action, $5+ cost.
+3 Cards
You may take Exhausted. If you do, +3 Cards.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. +1 Villager per $1 overpaid.
You draw cards, then you can use another Action to draw more. It isn't always the right thing to draw more; playing further Actions is hard, and sometimes the extra draw would be wasted. There's also a complimentary overpay for Villagers.
+: one of the simplest things to do with Exhausted, and it's effective.
-: the overpay may not be best on a $5 cost card.


Quote
Timepiece - Action Duration, $4 cost.
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: name a type. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the cards with the named type back in any order and discard the rest.
Sort out the top of your deck to be vaguely what you need, and move things you don't want there on. What type you need now can be different starting next turn.
+: this has many different uses, yet isn't useful all the time.
-: two sort effects on one card may be too much for some people.


Quote
Trade Circle - Action Reaction, $3 cost.
+1 Buy
If you have another Trade Circle in play, + $2.
-
When this enters your hand outside of your Action phase, you may set it aside. If you do, +1 Coffers and at the start of your next turn, play this.
Payload card that wants to connect to copies of itself, and is best drawn or gained to hand outside the Action phase; so at the Buy phase, or with other players' Attacks or Council Rooms, or at the start of your turn, or most likely at Clean-up when you draw your next hand.
+: triggering the Coffers gain and play is a new thing you can skillfully work at.
-: the newest idea here, untested. Something could not work out.


Quote
Tutor - Action Duration, $3 cost.
+1 Card
+1 Action

You may set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, of the card is an...
Action, play it;
Treasure, trash it;
neither type, discard it and +1 Card.
Set aside a card and do something with it that benefits the typical engine next turn.
+: always a safe pickup but kept an interesting choice by how slow it is.
-: safe and balanced, nothing that wrong with it.


Quote
Wastelands - Victory, $5 cost.
Worth 5VP if you have 8 or fewer non-Victory cards in your deck, otherwise 2VP.
-
When you gain this, trash up to 2 cards you have in play.
A third Victory card, because Renaissance doesn't have any. It rewards having few useful cards in your deck at game end, and has an on-gain that helps achieve this.
+: it makes a new way to win the game that takes strategy and skill.
-: 8 cards cap may be too generous.

Components
Overall: it's a Treasure Map variant that once you put together becomes a card that can discard itself, so you can draw and play it multiple times the same turn. This supports and can be upgraded to one of three powerful final outcomes, possibly taking another middle stage before getting there for a better result.

Quote
Components - Action, $3 cost.
+1 Action
Return this and another Components from your hand to the Supply. If you return two Components, gain a Prototype from its pile.
-
When you gain this, you may gain a Silver onto your deck.
Treasure Map with the option of a top-decked Silver. The Silver will thicken the deck for making connecting Components together harder, but it'd be useful for later in the line; or just when you want a Silver, may as well top-deck it and take the Components with it to return later.
+: it both upgrades with a bit of skill and has its own use.
-: maybe Treasure Map isn't the best start, and getting a Silver with this turn 1 may be too strong despite the temporary extra junk in the deck.


Quote
Prototype - Action Machine, $0* cost.
+2 Villagers
You may trash a Treasure from your hand, to gain a Treasure to your hand costing up to $3 more than it.
Exchange this for a Machine.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Every upgrade has the Machine type for cleaner, shorter wording. This gets 2 Villagers and does Mine, two bonuses that don't need tracking if you choose to keep exchanging this for itself (essentially discard it during your Action phase). Or you exchange it for an upgrade.
+: self-discard is a new interesting mechanic.
-: that this puts an upgrade straight into the discard pile to draw the same turn adds some swinginess. No more than Travellers though I suppose?


Quote
Replica - Action Duration Machine, $0* cost.
Gain a Machine from its pile.
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: +1 Buy and + $1.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Make your Prototype into a Replica, then you can get a constant extra Buy and $ before moving onto another upgrade.
+: it helps balance the other Machines by assuring an important Buy is available, but for more time.
-: Fair takes some of the novelty of this away. Like Prototype it gets upgrades straight away; the similarity is a good thing, but swinginess again.


Quote
Steam Engine - Action Machine, $0* cost.
Reveal a card from the top of your deck for every Villager you have. Discard the non-Actions, then play the Actions in any order.
-
At Clean-up, you may take Exhausted. If you do, put this into your deck.
(This is not in the Supply.)
This final upgrade is a big boost to playing Actions. With a well managed pile of Villagers, it can be a key engine piece. Putting it onto deck to guarantee using it next turn will deplete your Villagers.
+: it should reward play skill handsomely.
-: it may call for too much work. And it struggles to be a distinct enough option against Taskmaster, which can do very similar things.


Quote
Spinning Mule - Treasure Machine, $0* cost.
$1
While this is in play, after you play a Treasure (including this), if it's a Copper +1 Card, otherwise +2 Cards.
(This is not in the Supply.)
The final upgrade going down a Treasure route. Every Copper effectively becomes a Peddler, and better Treasures get more draw, so you can reliably draw all your Treasures when you get this in hand.
+: it makes a pleasant yet simple contrast to Steam Engine.
-: very volatile, it is heavily affected by interactions with some other cards. Some of these could be completely dominating every game.


Quote
Patent - Action Machine, $0* cost.
Play this as if it were the card on your Patent mat.
-
When you first get a Patent, move an Action from the Supply onto your Patent mat, leaving one bonus visible. (When you play this, you first get that bonus.) You can't copy another player's mat.
(This is not in the Supply.)
So when you first get this, choose any Action in the Supply and put it on your mat, which looks something like the mock-up on the right. Choose one of +2 Cards, +2 Actions or + $2, and cover all the mat with your chosen Action except that bonus (you might rotate the bonus to be shown above the card). Patent becomes the Action with that bonus on it first. Make a super powerful Action, and patent it so no one else copies it that game.
+: it's a new way to get ahead in the game, and it should work well in this group of cards as Steam Engine can be a consolation prize to the loser of a best-Patent race.
-: it's flexible to avoid bitterness from losing the Patent race scenario, but this means the strength of the Patent being unique to you is weaker.



Prospects
Just like Projects, they're effects you buy once and then put a cube on. But unlike Projects, they are one-off effects rather than ones that last for the rest of the game. For the most part, they are extra resources to time well.


Quote
Catering - Prospect, $0 cost.
Set aside your hand. At the start of your next turn, put it into your hand.
Carry your hand over to next turn, adding it to the 5 you draw.
+: a mechanic effective on a one-off, and it can be free.
-: probably weak, or it's trivial to time.


Quote
Exhibit - Prospect, $2 cost.
+1 Buy
Take the Emblem. Gain either a copy of a non-Victory card you've gained this turn, or a card costing up to $4.
Quote
Emblem - Artifact
3VP
An Artifact that you can only take once. You choose when you want it; it has a distinct early game boost in gaining a $4 for $2, a late game boost in VP, and a middle game boost in gaining a copy of a good card you've already gained that turn.
+: it's an elegant way to get 3 different uses on the same card.
-: it could be annoying with regards seating order, especially with keeping possession for late game.


Quote
Manufacture - Prospect, $3 cost.
+1 Buy
Play a non-duration Action card from the Supply, returning it when it would leave play.[/b]
Buy the effects of an Action in the kingdom to use immediately, without adding the card to the deck. This opens up a few new things.
+: its uses will differ each game, and players work out for themselves what's best.
-: there could be something broken somewhere?


Quote
Night Shift - Prospect, $2 cost.
+1 Buy
Take Exhausted. If you do, and the previous turn wasn't yours, take another turn after this one.
One extra turn typically without the starting Action to prepare and time right.
+: one bonus turn in the game is interesting, and a bonus turn without the starting Action is interesting.
-: this was what inspired Prospects in the first place. I don't think I have any bad points about this one.


Quote
Prediction - Prospect, $2 cost.
+1 Buy
Look through your discard pile and put 5 cards from it onto your deck.
Create your next hand once. When do you really need to do this?
+: it's something you can't easily do on a kingdom card but can do as a one-off.
-: it should work? Maybe it's a bit uninteresting.


Quote
Shady Deal - Prospect, $4 cost.
Take Delayed. Gain up to 3 Golds onto it; for each, gain a Curse onto it.
Get a massive economy boost, but with the setback of either Delayed that's hard to remove and/or crows in the deck. Dance around these how you will.
+: it's all about resource control.
-: 3 Golds might be too many.


Quote
Stocks - Prospect, $1+ cost.
You may overpay for this. +1 Coffers per $1 overpaid.
Save some of your money from a turn for later.
+: overpay for Coffers can be achieved on a one-off.
-: timing may be trivial, that you always do it at on a $3/4 or 4/3 start to get $5s.


Quote
Takeover - Prospect, $6 cost.
Gain a Province.
One of your Provinces this game costs $6. When will you get it?
+: simple and effective.
-: nothing much can be wrong with this.



And that's the end. I hope you've enjoyed looking through these as much as I enjoyed making them. Maybe you've seen a mistake or flaw somewhere, in which case don't be afraid to tell. No design can be called perfect or final without criticism, and part of the thrill of the design process is identifying and making gradual improvements.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 02:25:49 pm by Aquila »
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2017, 08:20:50 am »
+2

I suggest to post less cards at once. I understand why you would want to share all of your ideas at once with us, but given there are no pictures, this is an incredibly long wall of text. Many people won't even start reading it, as they will get tired of it before finishing. I'm saying this before taking any look at your actual cards, just as a friendly tip: Less at once means more detailed feedback, and probably more altogether.

Now I'll check some random cards and give my 2 cents:

Quote
Taskmaster - Action, +1 card +4 actions. If there are any unused actions at the end of your turn, draw 2 less cards for your next turnís hand, down to 3. $4 cost.
On a German forum I already encountered something like this, where spending all your Actions was necessary to achieve something. I think it's not too great to punish somebody for overproducing, though. As I said about LastFootnote's Charlatan already, overproduction is in itself a punishment, as you waste something you put effort in. That said, it doesn't look unbalanced. With +3 Actions it'd maybe even pass as a regular 4$? I don't know. Or just give the penalty every time. Just, I'd suggest to not punish for failing to use your potential.

Quote
Potteries - Action, +4 cards. You may use a second action on this. If you do, +1 buy, + $2. $6 cost.
You might like to check out my Town/Road (click the link in my signature) on how I did spending two Actions on one card. It seemed easier to me back then. And I'd say it is if you only do one card with that ability, but here of course you made it a recurring thing. Which means that yes, you have to learn something new, but you get a whole new bunch of cards that use that thing. That said, I'm not sure how good or bad Potteries is. It seems better than Hunting Grounds, but I'm not sure how much better.

Quote
Advancing Village - Action, +1 card, +2 actions. If this was played from your hand, take an Action Token. $5 cost.
I don't get what you say about "replaying itself infinitely". If the +1 Action token just gives you +1 Action, however would you play this card again?

Quote
Executive - Action, +1 card. Discard any number of Treasure cards. Take an Action Token per card discarded. While this is in play, when you spend an Action Token you may use the action on the last one you played.
I don't get the last part. Is the +1 Action Token supposed to be something like Royal Carriage? Because if it's just "When you play an Action card, you may use an Action token to get +1 Action", what would "use it on the last one you played" even mean?

navical

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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2017, 09:31:26 am »
0

I suggest to post less cards at once. I understand why you would want to share all of your ideas at once with us, but given there are no pictures, this is an incredibly long wall of text. Many people won't even start reading it, as they will get tired of it before finishing. I'm saying this before taking any look at your actual cards, just as a friendly tip: Less at once means more detailed feedback, and probably more altogether.


Definitely this.

Quote
Quote
Executive - Action, +1 card. Discard any number of Treasure cards. Take an Action Token per card discarded. While this is in play, when you spend an Action Token you may use the action on the last one you played.
I don't get the last part. Is the +1 Action Token supposed to be something like Royal Carriage? Because if it's just "When you play an Action card, you may use an Action token to get +1 Action", what would "use it on the last one you played" even mean?
I assume it's meant to be
Quote
While this is in play, when you spend an Action token, you may replay the last Action you played instead of getting +1 Action.
Although I can't find a perfect wording either, I think that's clearer?
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Aquila

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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2017, 11:27:31 am »
0

I suggest to post less cards at once.
Good call. I should thank you both for reading what you have.

Edit: so I split them up according to their mechanics. Reverted as they looked more clumsy dotted around. I am slowly working on images for each card.

Quote
Executive - Action, +1 card. Discard any number of Treasure cards. Take an Action Token per card discarded. While this is in play, when you spend an Action Token you may use the action on the last one you played.
I don't get the last part. Is the +1 Action Token supposed to be something like Royal Carriage? Because if it's just "When you play an Action card, you may use an Action token to get +1 Action", what would "use it on the last one you played" even mean?
So you play Executive, and discard some Treasures to get some action tokens. If there are no actions left after this, you would pay a token to gain +1 action in the usual way. You can choose to play an action from your hand at this point.
Or you can use the action you just got from the token on the Executive, since it is the last action you played. So it would still count as using an action, and you would again have none left.
Now the difficulty with wording; suppose after the Executive you play Potteries, then pay another token and use the action on the Potteries. You are using 'a second action' on it and would get the Woodcutter effect. If you were to 'replay' the Potteries like with Royal Carriage you would replay the card and get 4 cards again.

I hope this makes sense since it helps to explain this:
Quote
Advancing Village - Action, +1 card, +2 actions. If this was played from your hand, take an Action Token. $5 cost.
I don't get what you say about "replaying itself infinitely". If the +1 Action token just gives you +1 Action, however would you play this card again?
I should explain that when I wrote the commentary for each card in my own notes, the rule on Executive was always what action tokens did. I changed them for simplicity and then made Executive to keep the effect. I just forgot to update this.
So with an Executive in play, you'd play Advancing Village, gain a token, which you use on Advancing Village, gain another token, etc.

Edit: adjusted the comments on each card.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 02:59:44 am by Aquila »
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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2017, 12:04:30 pm »
+1

Hum, I'm really not sure I like the idea of being allowed to re-play cards that are already in play. It seems wonky with Durations, at least. If you want to keep that ability, you should fix up Executive instead of altering other cards that give out the token: "While this is in play, when you play an Action card from your hand, you may first spend any number of +1 Action Tokens to play that card that many additional times."
That would stack with several, though. An alternative would be to just introduce an own type of token: "Take that many Executive Tokens..."

Aquila

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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2017, 01:36:38 pm »
0

Some adjustments thanks to your feedback.

I guess a lot of confusion arises with this whole 'second action' idea. If we remove that things should be easier. I can do what I did to the unnamed remodeler, 'choose one... You may use two actions on this'.

Quote
Glassworks - action. Choose one: return up to 2 cards from your hand to the piles they came from, and you may gain a card costing exactly the sum of the returned cards; or draw up to 6 cards in your hand. You may use two actions on this. $5 cost.
Should play just the same, only Thrones let you do one then the other too.

Quote
Potteries - Action, choose one: +3 cards; or +1 buy, + $2. You may use two actions on this. $6 cost.
I feared that playing Village-this to draw 4 cards twice would be too strong, so it's down to 3 but hopefully a lot simpler. I'm toying with adding 'when you gain this, take 2 action tokens.'

Quote
Steelworks - Action. Choose one: draw up to 9 cards in hand, then put 3 cards from your hand on the bottom of your deck; or reveal your hand, and if there areÖ 3 or more Treasures, + $2; 3 or more Actions, +2 actions; 1 or more Victory cards, +1 buy. You may use two actions on this. $5 cost.
This is quite a bit stronger; you can reveal your hand twice for 3 actions and/or $4, but it'll be harder to get with a 4 card hand.

Quote
Textile Mill - Choose one: +1 card per card in your hand, discard up to 3 cards then put your hand on top of your deck in any order; or gain a card costing up to 4 into your hand. You may use two actions on this. $5 cost.
The Workshop part gains to hand to work better with the first part, but would two 4s to hand be too strong?

A change to Taskmaster to be similar to Lost City's balance:
Quote
Taskmaster - Action, +1 card +4 actions. When you gain this, draw 2 less cards for your next turnís hand, down to 3.
The skill element is still there. There could be some complex reason to gain one just for the effect.

These changes should make Executive and Expert much simpler:
Quote
Executive - Action, +1 card. Discard any number of Treasure cards. Take an Action Token per card discarded. While this is in play, when you spend an Action Token you may replay the last action you played instead of +1 action. $6 cost.
Quote
Expert - Action. Choose one: +1 card, +1 action, +1 coin or +1 buy, then replay the last action you resolved that is not an Expert. $5 cost.

About replaying durations, the instructions for Royal Carriage seem to imply you can only do so on the turn you play them, and not on their later effects. If you do so the card stays out with it for easy tracking. It wouldn't make sense with Hireling otherwise. And it can't replay reserves as they're never in play after they're resolved. So, with the cards changed to be like this, the same rule would apply, the action token (Executive) or Expert card staying with the duration.

Hopefully improvements.
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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2017, 05:05:05 pm »
0

It's not at all clear what "you may use 2 actions on this" means. To me, it reads "you may play this card and have it consume 2 actions instead of 1", with no additional effect.

Do you actually mean "You may use an additional Action to play this card a second time"?
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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2017, 07:28:53 pm »
0

Quote
Consumerist - Action attack duration. Each other player reveals their hand at the start of their turn and plays all Treasure cards, then pays all their $. They may gain a card costing up to the amount. At the start of your next turn: +1 card + $2. $5 cost.
Split your opponents' total coins for the turn in two. It has them gain a card to save Black Market-like confusion, particularly involving debt, and it prevents on-buy effects too. This may be strong, or at least swingy in its impact.
This has serious problems with Crown. You are forced to play Crown, but it's your Action phase, so uh I suppose you can throne an Action. What if I draw more Treasures? Do I have to play them? Am I allowed to play them? And what if I discard some of the Treasures in my hand? Am I still required to play them?

Similar problems, to a lesser extent, occur with Counterfeit - did I play the counterfeited card and have thus fulfilled the requirement to play it, or does Consumerist line up the cards in your hand for play and you have to play them even when they stop being in your hand? And if I Counterfeit Rocks to gain a Silver in hand, what about that?

Unfortunately, I do not have a good idea of how to fix these issues while keeping the premise. Other than that, I would add that gaining a card at the start of your turn rather than at its end is usually considered a bonus, so I'm not sure the attack is strong enough to be worth it.
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Shvegait

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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2017, 08:34:35 pm »
0

It's not at all clear what "you may use 2 actions on this" means. To me, it reads "you may play this card and have it consume 2 actions instead of 1", with no additional effect.

Do you actually mean "You may use an additional Action to play this card a second time"?

These cards give you an extra optional effect, if you pay Actions. Think of how Butcher lets you pay Coin tokens, and then that gives you an extra benefit. Here, you pay Actions for the extra benefit.

Take Potteries for example (using the version from the first post). When you play it, it's just like Hunting Grounds. Then, you can pay another Action (if you have one) for +1 Buy, +$2.

I find the wording on these cards a bit confusing, especially considering the explanation on how Action tokens work. The card texts themselves should be enough to explain how the card works. The alternating back and forth between 1st action part and 2nd action part seems too complicated. The concept of "using two actions" is certainly ambiguous and should be reworded.

I think the concept could work somehow like this, for example:

Quote
Potteries - $6 Action - +3 Cards, You may pay an Action. If you did, +1 Buy, +$2.

This wording would be consistent with Storyteller, but still might be a little ambiguous on its own because Action is an overloaded word in Dominion (see Diadem). Actually, if you want to be consistent with Diadem, you may want to say "You may pay an unused Action", but I'm not sure that's necessary.

As for Action tokens, you could make them work just like Coin tokens from Guilds. Instead, you would have, during your Action phase, you may spend an Action token, for +1 Action. I think that is what you intended, though I'm not sure. I would think, though, to prevent some rules problems or confusion, you would want to limit when Action tokens can be spent to after completely resolving an Action, or whenever you "may pay an Action".

Unfortunately, by Executive changing Action tokens into Royal Carriage effects, the only reasonable time to be able to spend Action tokens is after completely resolving an Action, which doesn't work nicely with the "may pay an Action"/"use two Actions on this" cards. Honestly, though, Executive is overpowered and probably needs to change anyway. A single Executive and a single Bridge can end the game in just a few turns, as soon as you can get 7 or 8 Action tokens and collide Executive and Bridge.

Some interesting card effects here. Haven't even looked beyond the Action theme yet.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 08:43:40 pm by Shvegait »
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Aquila

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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2017, 05:50:49 am »
0

Some good observations, thank you all.

Quote
Consumerist - Action attack duration. Each other player reveals their hand at the start of their turn and plays all Treasure cards, then pays all their $. They may gain a card costing up to the amount. At the start of your next turn: +1 card + $2. $5 cost.
Split your opponents' total coins for the turn in two. It has them gain a card to save Black Market-like confusion, particularly involving debt, and it prevents on-buy effects too. This may be strong, or at least swingy in its impact.
This has serious problems with Crown. You are forced to play Crown, but it's your Action phase, so uh I suppose you can throne an Action. What if I draw more Treasures? Do I have to play them? Am I allowed to play them? And what if I discard some of the Treasures in my hand? Am I still required to play them?

Similar problems, to a lesser extent, occur with Counterfeit - did I play the counterfeited card and have thus fulfilled the requirement to play it, or does Consumerist line up the cards in your hand for play and you have to play them even when they stop being in your hand? And if I Counterfeit Rocks to gain a Silver in hand, what about that?

Unfortunately, I do not have a good idea of how to fix these issues while keeping the premise. Other than that, I would add that gaining a card at the start of your turn rather than at its end is usually considered a bonus, so I'm not sure the attack is strong enough to be worth it.
This may skew game mechanics too far, but:
"Each other player starts their next turn with a Buy Phase, in which they keep their hand revealed and play all Treasures. (They still have a Buy Phase after their Action Phase.)"
The potential this has is when a player can hit 8 but only with the actions he has. Instead he gets two buy phases with less than 8 to spend.

It's not at all clear what "you may use 2 actions on this" means. To me, it reads "you may play this card and have it consume 2 actions instead of 1", with no additional effect.

Do you actually mean "You may use an additional Action to play this card a second time"?

These cards give you an extra optional effect, if you pay Actions. Think of how Butcher lets you pay Coin tokens, and then that gives you an extra benefit. Here, you pay Actions for the extra benefit.

Take Potteries for example (using the version from the first post). When you play it, it's just like Hunting Grounds. Then, you can pay another Action (if you have one) for +1 Buy, +$2.

I find the wording on these cards a bit confusing, especially considering the explanation on how Action tokens work. The card texts themselves should be enough to explain how the card works. The alternating back and forth between 1st action part and 2nd action part seems too complicated. The concept of "using two actions" is certainly ambiguous and should be reworded.

I think the concept could work somehow like this, for example:

Quote
Potteries - $6 Action - +3 Cards, You may pay an Action. If you did, +1 Buy, +$2.

This wording would be consistent with Storyteller, but still might be a little ambiguous on its own because Action is an overloaded word in Dominion (see Diadem). Actually, if you want to be consistent with Diadem, you may want to say "You may pay an unused Action", but I'm not sure that's necessary.
How does this read:
"Choose one: +3 cards; or +1 buy +$2. You may use a second action on this to replay it."

As for Action tokens, you could make them work just like Coin tokens from Guilds. Instead, you would have, during your Action phase, you may spend an Action token, for +1 Action. I think that is what you intended, though I'm not sure. I would think, though, to prevent some rules problems or confusion, you would want to limit when Action tokens can be spent to after completely resolving an Action, or whenever you "may pay an Action".
I never did explain did I? Well this is exactly what I thought.

Unfortunately, by Executive changing Action tokens into Royal Carriage effects, the only reasonable time to be able to spend Action tokens is after completely resolving an Action, which doesn't work nicely with the "may pay an Action"/"use two Actions on this" cards. Honestly, though, Executive is overpowered and probably needs to change anyway. A single Executive and a single Bridge can end the game in just a few turns, as soon as you can get 7 or 8 Action tokens and collide Executive and Bridge.
Ah yes, I had kept my Canal in mind but I suppose a Bridge-Silver opening would be too fast. If I limited the number of Treasures it could discard to 2?
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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 07:45:20 am »
0

Quote
Consumerist - Action attack duration. Each other player reveals their hand at the start of their turn and plays all Treasure cards, then pays all their $. They may gain a card costing up to the amount. At the start of your next turn: +1 card + $2. $5 cost.
Split your opponents' total coins for the turn in two. It has them gain a card to save Black Market-like confusion, particularly involving debt, and it prevents on-buy effects too. This may be strong, or at least swingy in its impact.
This has serious problems with Crown. You are forced to play Crown, but it's your Action phase, so uh I suppose you can throne an Action. What if I draw more Treasures? Do I have to play them? Am I allowed to play them? And what if I discard some of the Treasures in my hand? Am I still required to play them?

Similar problems, to a lesser extent, occur with Counterfeit - did I play the counterfeited card and have thus fulfilled the requirement to play it, or does Consumerist line up the cards in your hand for play and you have to play them even when they stop being in your hand? And if I Counterfeit Rocks to gain a Silver in hand, what about that?

Unfortunately, I do not have a good idea of how to fix these issues while keeping the premise. Other than that, I would add that gaining a card at the start of your turn rather than at its end is usually considered a bonus, so I'm not sure the attack is strong enough to be worth it.
This may skew game mechanics too far, but:
"Each other player starts their next turn with a Buy Phase, in which they keep their hand revealed and play all Treasures. (They still have a Buy Phase after their Action Phase.)"
The potential this has is when a player can hit 8 but only with the actions he has. Instead he gets two buy phases with less than 8 to spend.
A hopefully simpler solution I thought of:

"While this is is play, when another player starts their turn, they reveal their hand and set aside all Treasure cards. Then they play the cards set aside in any order."

This still has weirdness with Crown, but the rules should be clear; any additional Treasures are not played. It nerfs Counterfeit since you don't get to trash anything, but that's fine.

On power level: I get that, but hitting $8 is only really important late-game; maybe the attack hurts very early as well if you would reach $5 with Action + Treasures. Mid-game, gaining the card and being able to play it the same turn may well be a bonus; providing virtual +buy may be a bonus too. Attacks that are sometimes beneficial can work (see Haunted Woods) and it's an interesting way to attack a player, but I think the other effects of the card are too weak.
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Shvegait

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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2017, 09:09:17 am »
0

How does this read:
"Choose one: +3 cards; or +1 buy +$2. You may use a second action on this to replay it."

I think this might be OK, but I would drop the word "second" because it's confusing (or re-word depending on what you want the card to do). Consider the case where you do use a second action to replay it. Then you are faced with the same choice: "You may use a second action on this to replay it". But what does that mean now? Are you not allowed to, because it would be a "third" action? Or are you allowed to? For that particular play of the action card, it's only your "second" action. That's the reason I think something like "You may pay an Action to replay this" would be more clear.

Also keep in mind that as written, this lets you pick +3 Cards each time, if you want. Note that the first play is a Smithy, but each subsequent play is a Hunting Grounds (because you don't have to play another card from your hand for the effect). So this might be too strong, when there are cheap villages.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 09:12:22 am by Shvegait »
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2017, 10:43:19 am »
0

How does this read:
"Choose one: +3 cards; or +1 buy +$2. You may use a second action on this to replay it."

You're running into a few of the troubles I tried to avoid with my Road (yes, this is shameless self-advertizing in a way, but maybe it'll be insightful, after all):
First, it's a hard to track how many buys and coins you have. Admittedly, my Road can't track the Actions it used, either - but here you're counting 3-dimensional: Coins, Buys AND Actions.
Second, my card isn't in the supply as a +1 Action token on it would draw your deck. That still works with Champion, though that's a bit harder to achieve and kinda over the top either way. Here it's worse, because the card actually generates unlimited amounts of coins and buys, which means putting the token here and drawing one=Victory.
Third, Road comes with a Village for the reason that it gets easier to balance without being useless from time to time.
Lastly, the wording: If I played this at first with a Herold, Throne Room or something like that, I never spent a "first" action on it, so may I actually use a "second" one?

Aquila

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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2017, 12:01:14 pm »
0

OK, so the wording is still misleading. What it needs to convey is when you play the action, you have the option of using one extra action on it to replay it, but avoid 'replaying' it for such cases as Champion. Maybe...
"You may use an action to do this twice."

Tracking which effect you choose each time is a valid point. When it comes to the number of times you replay an action with Executive or Expert or if you 'use it twice' you can put an action token on the card for each extra time. An idea for indicating which effect you chose is put the token on the picture for one effect and on the text for the other. For some tracking cases (such as maybe KC-Pawn or Courtier) you just have to be creative.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2017, 01:38:41 pm »
0

Other suggestions:

"Choose one: A; B
You may pay/expend/use up/lose one of your Actions, to choose a second time (the choice may be the same)."

or:
"Choose one: A; B
If you have unused actions, you may choose a second time (the choice may be the same). If you do: -1 Action"

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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2017, 12:47:19 pm »
0

Appreciate the suggestions, but I think I like the 'do this twice' format the best. It already exists on Remake. And I think it should go first, so that running through the effects in order one doesn't think they can use an extra action to then choose two more times. So like this:
Quote
Action. You may use an extra action to do the following twice. Choose one: trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to 2 more than the trashed card; or look through your discard pile and put a card from it into your hand. 5 cost.
Canal - +1 buy. You may use an extra action on this. If you do, cards everywhere cost 2 less this turn, but not less than 0. For the first time Canal is played on your turn, when you gain a card, you may gain a Treasure costing up to 4. 5 cost.
Colliery - +1 card. You may use an extra action to do the following twice, or two extra actions for three times: +2 coins, discard a card. 4 cost.
Glassworks - You may use an extra action to do the following twice. Choose one: return up to 2 cards from your hand to the piles they came from, and you may gain a card costing exactly the sum of the returned cards; or draw up to 6 cards in your hand. 5 cost.
Potteries - You may use an extra action to do the following twice. Choose one: +3 cards; or +1 buy, +2 coins. 6 cost.
Does this make complete sense? Do they need the 'extra' there?

And two other proposed tweaks:
Quote
Cameo - Treasure, +$2. Take an Action Token. You may put a card from your hand on top of your deck. $4 cost.
Generally more playable.

Quote
Patency - When you first gain this, set aside 2 different Action cards other than Patency from the Supply costing up to a total of $8. When you play this, it becomes the action on the left until it is resolved, then, unless this has left play, the one on the right. $7 cost.
Wording adjustment that should play durations and reserves in a balanced way. Put a Reserve on the left and the right card never gets played as Patency goes to the Tavern mat, leaving play.
If a Duration is the left card, then we follow on from what was discussed earlier with Royal Carriage's interaction with durations; it is resolved after the immediate turn's effects are completed, not the later ones. Patency will then become the right card, thereby cancelling the next turn effects. So no shenanigans with Tactician or Hireling.
And if either are on the right, they play normally.
Well, that was wordy... I hope you get it.
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Shvegait

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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2017, 08:42:38 pm »
+1

Appreciate the suggestions, but I think I like the 'do this twice' format the best. It already exists on Remake. And I think it should go first, so that running through the effects in order one doesn't think they can use an extra action to then choose two more times. So like this:
Quote
Colliery - +1 card. You may use an extra action to do the following twice, or two extra actions for three times: +2 coins, discard a card. 4 cost.
Does this make complete sense? Do they need the 'extra' there?

A problem with this wording is that it's not clear what happens if you choose not to use an extra action. I know you intend it to mean that you do the part that follows a single time, but it's not clear from the wording. The way it reads, you don't actually get any benefit from playing the card at all unless you spend additional actions. Something like "Otherwise, do it once" is needed, which could be in parentheses.

I like Asper's suggestion of "If you have unused Actions, you may ... -1 Action". It doesn't require any additional rules and it's not too wordy. The only problem is that it doesn't work nicely with every possible clause you have after it, but if you have something like discard a card, it's pretty clean.

How about this?
Quote
Colliery - +1 Card, +1 Action. Do this three times: If you have any unused Actions, you may discard a card, for -1 Action, +$2.
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Aquila

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Re: Dominion: Revolution and other ideas
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2017, 03:47:45 pm »
0

Updated the OP with wording changes and hopefully clearer commentary on each card.

Appreciate the suggestions, but I think I like the 'do this twice' format the best. It already exists on Remake. And I think it should go first, so that running through the effects in order one doesn't think they can use an extra action to then choose two more times. So like this:
Quote
Colliery - +1 card. You may use an extra action to do the following twice, or two extra actions for three times: +2 coins, discard a card. 4 cost.
Does this make complete sense? Do they need the 'extra' there?

A problem with this wording is that it's not clear what happens if you choose not to use an extra action. I know you intend it to mean that you do the part that follows a single time, but it's not clear from the wording. The way it reads, you don't actually get any benefit from playing the card at all unless you spend additional actions. Something like "Otherwise, do it once" is needed, which could be in parentheses.

I like Asper's suggestion of "If you have unused Actions, you may ... -1 Action". It doesn't require any additional rules and it's not too wordy. The only problem is that it doesn't work nicely with every possible clause you have after it, but if you have something like discard a card, it's pretty clean.
I went with do it once, since as you said the format wouldn't work very well for all the multiple action cards, so I decided to keep them all the same. That said, it could work (now I notice Diadem says 'unused actions'). Here they both are:
Quote
Colliery - +1 card. You may do the following once, use an extra action to do it twice, or two extra actions for three times: + $2, discard a card.
Quote
Colliery - +1 Card, +1 Action. Do this three times: If you have any unused Actions, you may discard a card, for -1 Action, +$2.

Quote
Potteries - Action, You may use an extra action to do the following twice. Choose one: +3 cards; or +1 buy, + $2.
Quote
Potteries - choose one: +3 cards; or +1 buy, + $2. If you have any unused actions, you may choose again for -1 action.
I could even try the second use format again:
Quote
Potteries - +4 cards. If you have any unused actions, you may do: -1 action, +1 buy, + $2.
I would appreciate opinions as to what format is best.

And so this isn't all just a discussion on how to word cards properly, I'll put the question out:
Quote
Consumerist - Action attack duration. Each other player reveals their hand at the start of their turn and plays all Treasure cards, then pays all their $. They may gain a card costing up to the amount. At the start of your next turn: +1 card + $2. $5 cost.
Split your opponents' total coins for the turn in two. It has them gain a card to save Black Market-like confusion, particularly involving debt, and it prevents on-buy effects too. This may be strong, or at least swingy in its impact.
...
This may skew game mechanics too far, but:
"Each other player starts their next turn with a Buy Phase, in which they keep their hand revealed and play all Treasures. (They still have a Buy Phase after their Action Phase.)"
The potential this has is when a player can hit 8 but only with the actions he has. Instead he gets two buy phases with less than 8 to spend.
A hopefully simpler solution I thought of:

"While this is is play, when another player starts their turn, they reveal their hand and set aside all Treasure cards. Then they play the cards set aside in any order."

This still has weirdness with Crown, but the rules should be clear; any additional Treasures are not played. It nerfs Counterfeit since you don't get to trash anything, but that's fine.

On power level: I get that, but hitting $8 is only really important late-game; maybe the attack hurts very early as well if you would reach $5 with Action + Treasures. Mid-game, gaining the card and being able to play it the same turn may well be a bonus; providing virtual +buy may be a bonus too. Attacks that are sometimes beneficial can work (see Haunted Woods) and it's an interesting way to attack a player, but I think the other effects of the card are too weak.
I realised making Consumerist start turns with buy phases gets really wonky with Villa, so before bothering to get the wording sussed, is his attack too weak based on faust's reasoning?
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Aquila

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Re: Dominion: Revolution
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2017, 04:33:29 am »
+1

Having got some good playtesting done, I thought I'd post some updates. Here are the main ones:

  • I've put all the cards that use multiple actions under the type 'Multi'. It's a clean solution that makes wording much shorter and simpler. All Multi cards call for -1 action to do extras in various ways, and the rule simply is you can't do such effects of you have none left.
  • Advancing Village (was 5 cost 1 card 2 actions take token) now gives tokens when you gain cards. It seemed better to not simply give tokens out on a simple cantrip, but to make it a bit more challenging to get them.
  • Cameo similarly gives its token if you do top-deck a card. It's bumped up to 5 like the other silver+ Treasures.
  • Glassworks now trashes cards rather than returns them to the Supply. It actually progresses to the game end now, and plays nicely.
  • Consumerist is now called Hawker, actually a thing, and reads:
    Quote
    each other player reveals their hand and sets aside all Treasure cards. They take another Buy Phase after their next one with them, with +1 buy. At the start of your next turn: + $3.
  • Entrepreneur now gives +1 buy on pile empty. It basically takes what Labourer ​tried in being a delayed Market, so Labourer can now go.
  • Executive is now called Magnate:
    Quote
    discard up to 2 cards. Take an action token per card discarded. While this is in play, when you spend an action token, instead of +1 action you get: +1 card, and you may play an Action card from your hand twice.
  • Patency is now Patent, again actually something real, and it needed​ to become a Multi. You choose one set aside Action, and can then do the other for -1 action.
  • Revolters was weak, and easily stopped by BM. It's now:
    Quote
    At the start of each other player's Buy Phase during their next turn, they get -1 action. If they have no actions left, they gain a Curse. At the start of your next turn, +1 action.
    It doesn't quite seem right as is, it'll need a bit more work.
  • Steelworks is now:
    Quote
    draw up to 8 cards, then discard down to 5; or reveal your hand, and if there are... 2 or more Actions, +2 actions; 2 or more Treasures, +1 buy; 2 or more Victories, + $2.
  • Textile Mill is now:
    Quote
    +2 cards and gain a Silver to hand; or look at the top 5 cards of your deck, discard any number, then put the rest back with any number from your hand in any order.

And there are outtakes:
Labourer (+1 action, +1 buy, if 3 or more actions have been used this turn +1 card +1 coin) didn't look very interesting alongside Entrepreneur, as explained above.
Taskmaster (+1 card +4 actions, on buy draw 2 less cards for next hand) lost its appeal once I started thinking action tokens.
Toxic Waste (while in play cards not in supply cost 1 less, when other player plays a card costing 1 or less they gain Curse) tried too hard to be different, and was potentially too strong. I could make Revolters a much simpler curser.

The OP has had an overhaul to make it a hopefully simpler read.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 05:22:10 pm by Aquila »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Revolution
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2017, 04:59:19 pm »
+1

I haven't really read through everything, but kudos for updating an expansion based on playtesting! That doesn't happen a lot.
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Aquila

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Re: Dominion: Revolution
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2017, 04:48:07 am »
0

Some more definite updates.

Just by putting each Multi with Fishing Village it was clear which ones looked balanced and which weren't:
  • Colliery was insane, but removing the +card has reined it in. I'm now trying it as an overpay card, $2 +1 action token per 1 overpay. Looking fine at the moment.
  • Glassworks got decks going too fast, with trash and good draw together. It's an outtake.
  • Potteries was so good it's silly. Straight to the outtakes.
  • Textile Mill was in the same boat as Potteries, with +2 cards +2 coins (in the form of to hand silver) together. But with Potteries gone, I'm trying +3 cards on it instead.
No problems with the others yet.

And Hawker's been weak. I've got an idea in line for a fix, but it hasn't been tested yet.

And three promising new cards:

Quote
Incinerator - Action, $3 cost.
+1 buy
Trash up to 2 cards from your hand. If you trashed a Curse, trash up to 2 more cards from your hand and + $1.

Quote
Innovator - Action Multi, $5 cost.
Choose one, or do both in either order and -1 action:
+ $3 and play up to three Treasures from your hand; or pay all your $ to buy a card immediately, gaining it to your hand.

Quote
Locusts - Action, $4 cost.
+1 card
+1 action

Set this aside. Trash a card from your hand and one from the Supply costing up to $5 other than Locusts.
At the end of your turn, trash this and gain a Locusts.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Revolution
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2017, 02:10:34 pm »
0

Incinerator - Interesting. Reminds me of Plastic Brain's Medicine. It might be a tad too good with curses or a bit swingy.

Innovator - IDK about the -action, but the rest should be just gaining. "Spend all of your $, then gain a card to your hand costing up to the total $ spent." I don't think you need the option to do only one, right now the card seems too good. I could really be underestimating the -action though.

Locusts - Looks really good. A cantrip trasher for 4, that gives you a free $5? Sure, it has limited uses but it's a guaranteed opener. Even with 5, you need to grab one to at least contest the pile.
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Aquila

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Re: Dominion: Revolution
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2017, 06:22:17 pm »
+1

Innovator - IDK about the -action, but the rest should be just gaining. "Spend all of your $, then gain a card to your hand costing up to the total $ spent." I don't think you need the option to do only one, right now the card seems too good. I could really be underestimating the -action though.
Playtesting hasn't been that thorough like this, but it's come a long way to get to something close to balanced. It's fair at buying Treasures, as you lose out on total coins for the Buy Phase, it's buying Actions that's been the trouble. You either need enough virtual coin played before and 2 actions left, or enough Treasure in hand and 3 actions, to play the Action card of choice straight away. Both involve a bit more than just a Village, so it's not so scary an opener.

I think you have a card similar to this on your thread, one called Munitions, that buys a card like this onto your deck for $3 cost. Maybe I should test it for strength.

Locusts - Looks really good. A cantrip trasher for 4, that gives you a free $5? Sure, it has limited uses but it's a guaranteed opener. Even with 5, you need to grab one to at least contest the pile.
Hmm, it doesn't gain the card costing up to 5 but trashes it from the Supply. That would of course be too strong.
Did you maybe misread it because it says '...costing up to 5' and not '5 or less'?
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Re: Dominion: Revolution
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2017, 08:17:58 pm »
+1

Here's a more boring version that doesn't need a Village in the kingdom to work (which would be my main critizism of the "spend several actions" mechanic, and one of the reasons my Road always comes with a Village):

Innovator, Action, 5$
+1 Action
+2$
Lose any amount of $. Gain a card costing at most the amount you lost to your hand.

Obvious comparisons are Minion and Royal Seal. Royal Seal can use its effect later in your turn and can't be drawn dead, but it's topdecking is quite a bit weaker, lacking both the implicit +1 Card and the implicit +1 Buy.

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Re: Dominion: Revolution
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2017, 08:52:28 am »
0

About Multi cards, I am against the subtype. You don't need a new type for each mechanic, intrigue didn't come with "choosing" type cards. You say it's for simplicity but it doesn't make things simpler. Even if you want to keep the type, I'd change it.

Regarding the multi cards, I think you should have -1 Action tokens. Whenever you would have to spend an action (other than playing a card), if you have no actions you may take a -1 Action token. These are basically the same as debt. You can't take more -1 Action tokens if you have some and you have to play them off with Actions.
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