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[faust]

Well I think Haddock - iguana - RR is not an unreasonable scumteam... but it does seem weird.

On the other hand, I can think of not many reasons for scum to use a Doctor shot there.

[faust]

Okay, so what's going to happen tonight is (this is assuming we lynch scum; I'll post a mislynch plan later).

I move to lower White and play 2 Cs.
theorel moves to lower white and plays 1 C.
Whichever of LaLight/Haddock is alive moves to lower white and plays 1 C.
EFHW moves to lower white and plays 1 C.
Awaclus moves to lower white and plays 1 C.
RR moves to lower white and plays 1 C.

These are 7 Cs. In order for the NK to go through, two players from here must be scum (or I am scum), which makes all the others ICs.

Other actions should include:
- the first player who is able refills the central pool
- the first player after that who is able transfers to red
- silver moves to lower red and sends cards to one of his top 3 townreads.

[faust]

Oh and just in case theorel is lying scum:

Would a refill pool action count as failed if it is used at a time where the pool is already filled to maximum capacity?

[EFHW]

vote: Lalight then.

So, to clarify this:
Lalight claimed as N1 action: refilled central pool+went to Blue.
This implies Lalight filled central pool in round 2 of night 1.
Player order for N1 is:
1: Awaclus
2: Skumpy
3: theorel
4: gkrieg
5: silverspawn
6: Haddock
7: EFHW
8: faust
9: mcmcsalot
10: e
11: Iguana
12: LaLight
13: Roadrunner

So, between Lalight in round 2 and awaclus in round 3, the only person to act was Roadrunner.
Roadrunner claimed his N1 actions were:

I took two unsuccessful actions and moved bluewards

Roadrunner is town from iguana's investigation.
So, the central pool, if filled by lalight would still be full during Awaclus' turn.
Now my initial belief was that this was meaningless (I was informed as of N1 that all my actions were successful).  But I was updated after this last night that my round 3 action should have failed.  It is possible that space clarified this for me and not awaclus, but that seems highly unlikely, and hopefully will be corrected before we lynch lalight if it's the case.

This means that lalight is now contradicting 2 players instead of 1, so hence the vote change.  It's possible I'm missing something here, and am open to someone pointing it out.  But this seems relatively clear-cut from my perspective...I don't think that awaclus would hang himself out to dry for Haddock in this case.

Why are you so sure Awaclus is town? You also don't account for the dictor action N2.

[faust]

I suggest people go reread LaLight/Haddock.

[faust]

There's also something to be said about just lynching iguana. We know he started today in upper red and he still did not provide any explanation for what he did there N1.

Plus if LaLight is town, this mean scum cannot kill him without outing Haddock.

I like that. Vote: iguana

If we do that, Haddock should go to lower white and LaLight should do whatever (but no weak visiting)

[faust]

Okay. If we mislynch today, the top priority is to just keep scum from using the Hatch. How do we do this? By forcing the scummiest players to do card draw.

This plan takes effect if we mislynch today.

We will send silver and Haddock to lower red card draw, iguana should do at least 1 card draw.

Now it gets complicated. We need to make sure to power red in time for e to use an action tonight. Some steps.

1. First one in player order of {me, Awaclus, theorel, RR} goes to lower white and fills the central pool IN PHASE 2. Hopefully this person is ahead of EFHW in player order. If so, EFHW then moves to lower red and pulls energy IN PHASE 2. The pool will be full by phase 2.

2. If EFHW is ahead of everyone in the list above, then instead she fills the central pool IN PHASE 1. Then she goes to lower red and moves the energy.

3. RR will go to lower red, unless he was chosen to fill central in step 1. In phase 3, he will move energy to lower red, unless one of the following is true:
- step 1 failed to execute AND e is either ahead of EFHW  or after RR in player order.
If this is the case, RR instead uses card draw.

4. e uses either Cop or Commute as soon as the red pool is filled.

5. LaLight uses Doctor on someone and goes down the lift.

[faust]

I tried to check that everyone can do their assigned actions. Please double-check for yourself.

For reference, these are all claimed hands, and positions on the ship:

silver: 4 Red-A, 2 Red-B, 1 Blue-A [lower blue]
Awaclus: 3 Red-B, 2 Red-C, 1 Lift-B [lower blue]
LaLight: 1 Lift-C, 1 Blue-A, 1 Blue-B, 1 Red-C, 2 Blue-C [upper blue]
theorel: 3 Lift-B, 1 Red-A, 1 Red-C, 1 Blue-A [lower blue]
iguana: 2 Lift-A, 2 Blue-C, 1 Red-A [lower red]
faust: 2 Red-A, 1 Blue-B, 1 Red-C, 1 Lift-C, 1 Lift-B, 1 Blue-A, 1 Blue-C [lower blue]
EFHW: 1 Lift-A, 2 Lift-B, 1 Lift-C, 1 Blue-B, 1 Red-A, 1 Red-C [lower white]
e: 1 Blue-B, 1 Blue-C, 1 Lift-A, 4 Lift-B, 2 Lift-C [upper red]
RR: 1 Red-C, 2 Red-B, 1 Blue-C, 1 Lift-C, 1 Lift-B [lower blue]
Haddock: 1 Red-A, 1 Lift-A, 3 Red-B, 1 Red-C, 1 Blue-C [lower blue]

[iguanaiguana]

You have mine wrong. I'm in upper red.

[iguanaiguana]

You are making this game not very fun to play :/

I have a VLA and it's been hard to follow along,  but when I get a chance to sit at a computer I'll look up what I did n1 and full claim.

[faust]

I copped RR. Townie. I gave Faust cards. Are we full claiming?

So I am to believe that for some reason you switched your claimed actions here.

[Awaclus]

Mine is correct.

[2.71828.....]

I will cop, since commuting is pointless as we are planning to block the scum kill

[faust]

I will cop, since commuting is pointless as we are planning to block the scum kill

Well, we will block the scum kill only if we lynch correctly, as I think trying to block it with 3 scum still alive will almost certainly fail, and we learn not enough.

[EFHW]

There's also something to be said about just lynching iguana. We know he started today in upper red and he still did not provide any explanation for what he did there N1.

Plus if LaLight is town, this mean scum cannot kill him without outing Haddock.

Isn't Haddock basically outed already? We don't have any explanation for the contradiction in his claim.

[faust]

There's also something to be said about just lynching iguana. We know he started today in upper red and he still did not provide any explanation for what he did there N1.

Plus if LaLight is town, this mean scum cannot kill him without outing Haddock.

Isn't Haddock basically outed already? We don't have any explanation for the contradiction in his claim.

Well the explanation is that LaLight is lying.

[theorel]

vote: Lalight then.

So, to clarify this:
Lalight claimed as N1 action: refilled central pool+went to Blue.
This implies Lalight filled central pool in round 2 of night 1.
Player order for N1 is:
1: Awaclus
2: Skumpy
3: theorel
4: gkrieg
5: silverspawn
6: Haddock
7: EFHW
8: faust
9: mcmcsalot
10: e
11: Iguana
12: LaLight
13: Roadrunner

So, between Lalight in round 2 and awaclus in round 3, the only person to act was Roadrunner.
Roadrunner claimed his N1 actions were:

I took two unsuccessful actions and moved bluewards

Roadrunner is town from iguana's investigation.
So, the central pool, if filled by lalight would still be full during Awaclus' turn.
Now my initial belief was that this was meaningless (I was informed as of N1 that all my actions were successful).  But I was updated after this last night that my round 3 action should have failed.  It is possible that space clarified this for me and not awaclus, but that seems highly unlikely, and hopefully will be corrected before we lynch lalight if it's the case.

This means that lalight is now contradicting 2 players instead of 1, so hence the vote change.  It's possible I'm missing something here, and am open to someone pointing it out.  But this seems relatively clear-cut from my perspective...I don't think that awaclus would hang himself out to dry for Haddock in this case.

Why are you so sure Awaclus is town? You also don't account for the dictor action N2.

I'm not sure awaclus is town.  I'm believing Awaclus + Haddock over Lalight.  Because it is more likely that a contradiction originates with 1 player than with 2.
In order for Lalight to be telling the truth, there are only 2 possibilities:
1. Haddock and Awaclus are both lying.  (so we have 2/3 of the remaining scum figured out) OR
2. Haddock, iguana, and roadrunner are all 3 lying (so we have the full scum team figured out).

Actually, on further reflection Haddock+iguana+roadrunner is impossible.  In order for roadrunner to have spent central energy night 1, he had to use either a top action during round 2 (which are all accounted for by awaclus, EFHW, and skumpy who would all be town in this hypothetical), OR he had to get a printout during round 2 which is impossible because the lift was occupied by lalight during round 1 (who is town in this hypothetical).

So, if lalight flips town then Awaclus+Haddock are guaranteed scum.  I am happy to take a 1-for-2 trade if offered.

The unusuality of lalight being scum is the doctor use, but scum could have used doctor as an attempted block of town blue actions (both weak visits and doctors).  Note that since lalight never filled central pool there is no need for lalight to have ever gone down a lift, so there is no contradiction with Haddock, even if lalight used the doctor shot.  Other scum could have used the doctor shot, of course.  Or scum could have used the Tracker shot, and skumpy could have doctored; in which case lalight took advantage of the situation because I claimed the night actions before lalight claimed.

I would certainly believe lalight over either awaclus or haddock individually because of that (as I already explained when I initially voted for Haddock)...but I don't think that scum-awaclus gives himself away to save Haddock knowing that he will be found out.  If this was lylo it would be different, but we have room for a mislynch, so that makes awaclus' claim bad play for scum.

It's still in the realm of possibility that awaclus' qt wasn't updated by space.  I think we should not push the lynch too fast, since it would be pretty terrible if space just didn't update awaclus in his qt, and this is all a big mod error.  Giving time for a mod error to be corrected seems best.  Maybe I should unvote so that we don't get a dumb quicklynch.

[EFHW]

There's also something to be said about just lynching iguana. We know he started today in upper red and he still did not provide any explanation for what he did there N1.

Plus if LaLight is town, this mean scum cannot kill him without outing Haddock.

Isn't Haddock basically outed already? We don't have any explanation for the contradiction in his claim.

Well the explanation is that LaLight is lying.

He could be - did he claim doctor before or after Theorel stated there was a doctor action? I think it was before, but I'll check.

[theorel]

There's also something to be said about just lynching iguana. We know he started today in upper red and he still did not provide any explanation for what he did there N1.

Plus if LaLight is town, this mean scum cannot kill him without outing Haddock.

Isn't Haddock basically outed already? We don't have any explanation for the contradiction in his claim.

Well the explanation is that LaLight is lying.

He could be - did he claim doctor before or after Theorel stated there was a doctor action? I think it was before, but I'll check.

He claimed 30 minutes after I claimed what the night actions were after faust kept prodding me to finish my claim.
My claim is 1213, his is 1220.

[silverspawn]

Yeah, shouldn't we lynch LaLight over haddock?

Plan's good. Everyone should follow it.

[EFHW]

Ok, yes I see that Lalight claimed doctor after Theorel revealed the print-out contents. Not super risky because so many people had already claimed, and Skumpy's action are unknown. Though for him to be lying he would have to have done the tracking and Skumpy the doctoring. It seems more likely that each of them would have chosen actions where they were. This would also mean Lalight lied about zone monitoring silver, or lied about being in lower white the day before. I don't have time this minute, but I'll try to track down if his movements are possible.

[EFHW]

It doesn't make a lot of sense that Skumpy would doctor, since he was a likely nk target.

[Awaclus]

So, if lalight flips town then Awaclus+Haddock are guaranteed scum.

Is this correct? In other words, do I know that LaLight is scum?

[theorel]

Ok, yes I see that Lalight claimed doctor after Theorel revealed the print-out contents. Not super risky because so many people had already claimed, and Skumpy's action are unknown. Though for him to be lying he would have to have done the tracking and Skumpy the doctoring. It seems more likely that each of them would have chosen actions where they were. This would also mean Lalight lied about zone monitoring silver, or lied about being in lower white the day before. I don't have time this minute, but I'll try to track down if his movements are possible.

This is why Awaclus' claim is super relevant.  If awaclus was supporting Lalight's claim of filling central, then Lalight would be more believable...but since awaclus is contradicting Lalight's claim, we have no reason to believe that lalight was ever in the lower section at all.

As additional reason to believe Lalight: I don't understand scum!LaLight's play here basically at all.  I mean scum!LaLight, doesn't have to contradict Haddock.  Contradicting Haddock guarantees Lalight's lynch after we lynch Haddock and he flips town.
But if Lalight is town, scum!Awaclus' play also makes no sense.  After we lynch Lalight and see a town flip, we'll obviously lynch both Awaclus and Haddock.

There is no scenario where the scum lies here make sense, but we have contradictory claims so someone must be lying.  And in either instance we have a scum player lying to contradict a town player where it's unnecessary.

The best reason I can come up with is that the scum player didn't notice and/or understand the contradiction when they made it.  In that case, Lalight seems most likely as liar, since Awaclus was clearly being called to claim for the express purpose of contradicting someone, it seems unlikely that he wouldn't notice that.  PPE: But then again, he doesn't seem to understand it still.

[theorel]

So, if lalight flips town then Awaclus+Haddock are guaranteed scum.

Is this correct? In other words, do I know that LaLight is scum?

Technically we require mod confirmation that filling an energy area that is already full results in action failed.  Right now, you have to take my word on it, since I'm claiming that I got an updated "action failed" for my third round action night 1 (which was to fill central energy).  I think the way I brought it up was town-like, and I don't see why the mod would not confirm it.  faust has already requested mod confirmation.  And I've suggested we not vote until we have mod confirmation.  I'll repeat the request, just so we're sure the mod sees it, along with a request so we're sure that if your action failed, you were notified.

Can we get mod confirmation, that attempting to fill a full energy area results in a failed action?
Can we get mod confirmation that Awaclus' Night1 action success/failure has been properly adjudicated?