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ratxt1

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Kingdom design thread
« on: February 09, 2012, 09:33:56 pm »
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so recently as you all know there have been a few kingdom design contests, all producing quite a few neat and fun kingdoms. In the past of dominionstrategy.com there has been little to no emphasis on pre-made kingdoms, but as I think the kingdom design contests have shown us, well designed kingdom's can be quite fun to play and can greatly emphasize the best parts about dominion.

Since I really enjoyed a lot of the kingdoms that were made, I thought I would start a thread devoted to pre-made kingdoms since I couldn't find anything else of this nature on the forum.

Some ideas for what posts should look like.

-presenting a kingdom you designed with or without coments.

-presenting a design challenge to the community along the lines of: Who can make the best kingdom only using base cards?

-analyzing and critiquing other people's kingdoms.

Have fun my first challenge for the thread is the one I mentioned earlier. Who can design the best kingdom only using base cards?
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DG

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Re: Kingdom design thread
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2012, 10:18:35 pm »
+1

Quote
Who can design the best kingdom only using base cards?

Donald X. ?
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philosophyguy

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Re: Kingdom design thread
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2012, 11:17:28 pm »
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Bureaucrat, Woodcutter, Gardens, Moneylender, Throne Room, Laboratory, Council Room, Village, Remodel, Market

Reasoning: Woodcutter and Gardens are possible, but Woodcutter is a weak enough enabler that it's not dominant in the same way Workshop would be. Bureaucrat is a soft counter to Gardens, or could be used in conjunction with the Gardens via the topdecked Silver.

Moneylender gives some early game trashing, which makes an engine possible. Council Room gives + Buy and enough card draw to make double-Province turns possible, if not extraordinarily likely, and the Village makes it possible to chain CRs. Throne Room + either Market or Lab could also provide village-like effects.

Remodel is another way to double-Province, and so provides some late-game decision-making opportunities.

This set is mostly defined by what is *not* present: Chapel is too good of trashing, Militia, Smithy, and Witch are game-warpingly dominant and strongly push towards a BM+X strategy, and Workshop would make Gardens the obvious choice.
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werothegreat

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Re: Kingdom design thread
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2012, 01:08:05 am »
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Bureaucrat, Woodcutter, Gardens, Moneylender, Throne Room, Laboratory, Council Room, Village, Remodel, Market

Reasoning: Woodcutter and Gardens are possible, but Woodcutter is a weak enough enabler that it's not dominant in the same way Workshop would be. Bureaucrat is a soft counter to Gardens, or could be used in conjunction with the Gardens via the topdecked Silver.

Moneylender gives some early game trashing, which makes an engine possible. Council Room gives + Buy and enough card draw to make double-Province turns possible, if not extraordinarily likely, and the Village makes it possible to chain CRs. Throne Room + either Market or Lab could also provide village-like effects.

Remodel is another way to double-Province, and so provides some late-game decision-making opportunities.

This set is mostly defined by what is *not* present: Chapel is too good of trashing, Militia, Smithy, and Witch are game-warpingly dominant and strongly push towards a BM+X strategy, and Workshop would make Gardens the obvious choice.

I'm not sure I'm sold on Council Room with Laboratory in the same Kingdom...  I'd rather play a chain of Labs and end with a Woodcutter - same effect for me, with some extra cash, and my opponent doesn't get any benefit.

I would just modify your setup: Cellar, Village, Woodcutter, Gardens, Bureaucrat, Throne Room, Moneylender, Mine, Library, and either Adventurer or Market.  Cellar would help with the Gardens junk, and it's nice to have a $2.  I just love Mine, and Throne Rooming a Mine is simply delightful.  Adventurer might be a little redundant with Library, unless your hand is over 7 cards.  Maybe Festival instead of Woodcutter, making Library more useful?  And with that many $5's, maybe Feast instead of Moneylender?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 01:14:48 am by werothegreat »
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philosophyguy

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Re: Kingdom design thread
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2012, 12:51:12 pm »
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I would love to end a Lab chain with a Woodcutter too. But, I'm not sure if that could get set up quickly enough on its own. For the drawing power of a single Council Room, you need 4 $5 cards that line up in a deck with relatively little trashing. It's not impossible, but I think the Lab/Woodcutter is probably just too slow on its own. But, it would be fun to play out and see. (I'm no simulator god, so I wouldn't trust my own simulation results.)
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AJD

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Re: Kingdom design thread
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2012, 02:46:39 pm »
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I spent a day last summer playing a bunch of themed kingdoms, and I think my favorite was "Dominion: Feminism"—i.e., a kingdom made up of cards with women as the central figure in the art:

Explorer, Fairgrounds, Farming Village, Forge, Fortune Teller, Peddler, Scrying Pool, Sea Hag, Witch, Young Witch (bane: Herbalist; include Colony)

It includes a lot of cursers, but a lot of decent counters for cursing; the Bane is weak and Farming Village counters Sea Hag well, which might make Young Witch a better buy, but then the presence of Peddler makes Herbalist a bit more attractive, so maybe you're better off waiting for the regular Witch. Young Witch plus Potions plus Colonies means it's possible to pump Fairgrounds up to 8 points each, especially if you're going to end up with some curses anyway.

I put this together before Hinterlands came out, obviously; but adding Trader instead of, I don't know, Explorer would change the play of this kingdom substantially as well.
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Razzishi

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Re: Kingdom design thread
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2012, 09:54:56 pm »
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One kingdom idea that I had for the creation competition was a board where it would actually be an interesting choice of whether to go after Pirate Ship or not, but figured I wasn't nearly good enough at the game to really know what sort of things would really balance it out.  I've taken what ideas I mulled around with and came up with the following:

Pirate Ship, Scheme, Pearl Diver, Pawn, Herbalist, Hoard, University, Alchemist, Scrying Pool, Spy

There are lots of cantrips for Scrying Pool to draw that also try to hide your few treasures, and you might just not care about trashed coppers and stock up on Herbalists and Pawns for money.  Either way, your Potion might eventually stay hidden in hand with Herbalist - but it needs to get into your hand first.  A Pirate Ship player has both non-terminal inspection attacks at his disposal to help him find whatever treasure is in the opposing deck, and with University could stock up on Ships and play multiples per turn while Scheme could recycle the Ships to hit more often.  Hoard could be supplying a straight-forward BM player with more Golds to help out with buying power as some get hit by Pirates, with the bought green cards also helping to hide whatever treasures there are left.  There are no worthwhile actions to get with University so that you'd be using it either for Pirating or purely for the multiple actions and the action card density, not to get actually good cards.

However, I'm thinking that too many games might come down to whether the Pirates find the opposing Potion fast enough, and so would be blind luck.
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ratxt1

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Re: Kingdom design thread
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2012, 12:27:55 pm »
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Pirate Ship, Scheme, Pearl Diver, Pawn, Herbalist, Hoard, University, Alchemist, Scrying Pool, Spy

i'd probably go alchemist/scrying pool/herbalist. Your opponents ships shouldn't be much of a problem since you don't want coppers and will have a high action density.
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Ozle

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Re: Kingdom design thread
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2012, 02:07:28 pm »
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Attack of the Attacks!

Cutpurse
Swindler
Witch
Sea Hag
Young Witch
Familiar
Sabatouer
Thief
Ghost Ship
Torturer

Colonys: Yes
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Kore

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Re: Kingdom design thread
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2012, 02:39:07 pm »
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Need a bane card for young witch.

My guess is that double young witch is the best on a board of all attacks (with witch replacing a young witch if you get an early $5). Assuming that the bane card isn't something spamable, you'll run out the curses faster than anything but sea hag and unlike sea hag, your young witches will still retain value after the curses are gone. I'd ignore the colonies and try to end the game on provinces as your deck is going to struggle to produce 9+ coins with all the trash that's been added in there.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 02:42:32 pm by Kore »
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