Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All

Author Topic: Kerbal Space Program  (Read 3123 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sudgy

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3243
  • Shuffle iT Username: sudgy
  • It's pronounced "SOO-jee"
  • Respect: +2428
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2017, 08:33:45 pm »
0

My first Dunar missions are underway.

Two requested probes to be placed, and one lander that I hope has enough fuel to get back.  Of course, transfer windows are rare, so they all went at about the same time.

My science station has been moved upward above that 250 km warp threshold, and so most of my launches aim for 250 km rather than 75 km.

Doesn't that waste fuel?  I feel like it would be better to get into orbit at 75 km, then from there head to 250 km.
Logged
If you're wondering what my avatar is, watch this.

Check out my logic puzzle blog!

   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3198
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3508
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2017, 12:58:08 am »
0

2850 science from my second landing mission to Minmus! I've now unlocked nearly everything that doesn't require the lvl 3 R&D centre. One mission to Mun (actually never landed there yet in this game), then off to Duna.

Fairly impressive that you are trying to get back in your very first mission! BTW, if you aren't using it yet, Kerbal Engineer Redux helps a lot to plan your vehicles.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6968
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9095
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2017, 11:51:13 am »
+1

2850 science from my second landing mission to Minmus! I've now unlocked nearly everything that doesn't require the lvl 3 R&D centre. One mission to Mun (actually never landed there yet in this game), then off to Duna.

Fairly impressive that you are trying to get back in your very first mission! BTW, if you aren't using it yet, Kerbal Engineer Redux helps a lot to plan your vehicles.

Oh yes, definitely using KER.  Let's face it... doing the math by hand would be ridiculous.

My science is coming in slowly because I'm processing is in (two) labs first.


My science station has been moved upward above that 250 km warp threshold, and so most of my launches aim for 250 km rather than 75 km.

Doesn't that waste fuel?  I feel like it would be better to get into orbit at 75 km, then from there head to 250 km.
[/quote]

Probably not?  It ought to require the same delta-v either way, to a first approximation.  It's not like I'm shooting straight up for 250 km, then turning!
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3198
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3508
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2017, 10:07:01 am »
0

Spaceplanes with only the Panther jet engine are hard. Spent an inordinate number of hours trying to reach orbit with one (plus rocket engines to finish, obviously), and no dice.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3198
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3508
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2017, 08:16:52 pm »
0

I finally did it. I managed to achieve ~75km orbit with this:



Needless to say, no cargo whatsoever (I could maybe modify it to get kerbals from LKO, I guess), and barely any fuel to spare (if you count what you need to come back). Also, hella ugly. Also, right as I was going to land, I believe that the centre of mass shifted behind the centre of lift, because it became completely uncontrollable.

But hey, achievement unlocked! Flying panther spaceplanes is super hard, I hope it's easier with better jet engines. I wonder if some of my MkII prototypes would have made it to orbit if I knew how to fly these things.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 08:18:18 pm by pacovf »
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6968
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9095
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2017, 11:19:27 pm »
0

I have yet to even *attempt* space planes.  Are they particularly useful?  Are you needing boosters on them?
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3198
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3508
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2017, 01:05:20 am »
0

Using boosters defeats the purpose of spaceplanes. The idea is to get to Kerbin's high atmosphere with a high speed using only the extremely efficient jet engines, and with lift surfaces to fight "gravity drag". Once there, when there isn't enough air for the jet engines to work properly (or at all), you turn on rocket engines to reach orbit proper, for a fraction of the delta-v that it would normally take, and without having to drop stages.

The main advantage is that it's dirty cheap, once you get a working spaceplane: you're only paying the price of fuel. It's also fun and/or pretty to fly.

It's super hard to make it work though: you need to understand lift, the optimal working conditions of jet engines, an ascent path that allows you to gain speed before going for orbit, the proportion of delta-v to be produced from jet engines and from rocket engines, etc. etc.

You can also do SSTO (Single Stage To Orbit) rockets. Kind of what Space X is trying to do. They are considerably easier to make them work... which makes them less fun, duh.

Honestly though, you need the better jet engines to make spaceplanes useful, so either the whiplash or the Rapier. Other jet engines die at "low" altitudes and speeds, which means rocket engines still have to do most of the work. They are a lategame thing.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6968
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9095
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2017, 01:41:02 am »
0

So I have a mission to grab a class-D asteroid and put it into Kerbin orbit.  OK cool.  Hey, I can track asteroids!  Let's look at this Class D one here.

Huh, it already has a Kerbin encounter on the map!  Let's zoom in.

There's no periapse marker.  Why is there no periapse marker?  Because the periapse marker is inside Kerbin.

Well.... shit.  What happens if I can't redirect a possibly 850-ton asteroid?
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3198
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3508
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #58 on: March 30, 2017, 09:34:24 am »
0

No idea:
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6968
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9095
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2017, 03:53:50 pm »
0

All that considered, if I only need about 120 delta-v to get from a reasonable orbit to rendezvous, I should only need the same to get back from rendezvous to reasonable orbit, right?  Possibly a bit more since we'll have moved closer to Kerbin by that point.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3198
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3508
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #60 on: March 30, 2017, 05:46:00 pm »
0

How do you plan to input any amount of delta v to more than 500 tons?
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6968
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9095
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #61 on: March 30, 2017, 07:56:19 pm »
+1

How do you plan to input any amount of delta v to more than 500 tons?

Volume!

In all seriousness, though:  with high-Isp engines.  The Nerv has Isp of 800 s, which means burning 60 t of fuel to impart 500 m/s delta-v to 850 t.  So getting 125 delta-v shouldn't be too tough.

That's really not all that much liquid fuel when you consider it.  The real issue is thrust.  Need to use like 10 Nervs to get enough thrust.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3198
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3508
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2017, 12:17:21 am »
0

You build much bigger than me. I rarely put more than 20 t (everything combined) in orbit.

You are talking about putting 100+ t, everything combined, on the elliptical orbit of an asteroid. That's gonna look huge on the launchpad
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6968
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9095
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2017, 12:47:21 am »
+3

Ladies and gentlemen, the Hercules II Asteroid Interceptor and Launch System (HAIL2):



Standing over 100 m high, it weighs in at just a touch under 1 kilotonne, nearly three-fourths of it fuel.  The first stage generates over 12 MN of thrust, and the lower stages are powered by a total of 10 Mainsail engines and 8 Kickback SRBs




The lower stages have enough delta-v to get the upper stage into LKE or a bit above.



The upper stage is just a touch under 180 tonnes, with over 110 tonnes of fuel.



The upper stage is driven by 12 LV-N "Nerv" engines, which require only liquid fuel and are thus fueled by Mk 3 spaceplane pats, available at C7 Aerospace outlets around the world.  If it only had to move itself, the upper stage would have over 10 km/s of delta-v available, though with only 720 N of thrust--no fast burns here.  It's intended to encounter and reposition asteroids as much as 5 times its mass, meaning it only has about 500 m/s of delta-v available for its true purpose.

----

Yeah, I build big.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

ThetaSigma12

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1431
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1361
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2017, 09:04:03 am »
0

How do you plan to input any amount of delta v to more than 500 tons?

Volume!
In one word: +1
Logged
If you have a fan card you want to be created, just post about it here! I'd love to take a look at it.

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6968
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9095
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2017, 12:15:14 pm »
+1

How do you plan to input any amount of delta v to more than 500 tons?

Volume!
In one word: +1

I do what I can for my audience.  Tip your server!
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3198
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3508
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2017, 05:14:30 pm »
0

Do the NERVs in front not overheart the ones in the back?

[Fully expecting screenshots of you moving the Asteroid around, by the way)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 05:43:52 pm by pacovf »
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6968
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9095
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #67 on: April 01, 2017, 07:51:44 pm »
+1

Do the NERVs in front not overheart the ones in the back?

[Fully expecting screenshots of you moving the Asteroid around, by the way)

No, I think they're far enough away that they don't matter for heating.

I don't know if I can guarantee screenshots for the asteroid, but I'll try.  I have maybe a 2-3 hour window to rendezvous, capture, plan the burn, then burn.  That window may well be smaller.

All of this is planned for well in the future though... I have three probes and a mission arriving at Duna about 60 game days before the asteroid rendezvous, spaced out over several days.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3198
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3508
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2017, 11:34:45 am »
0

That moment when you realize that you've accepted a mission to test a Mainsail on the surface of the Mun. That was one silly mission.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

sudgy

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3243
  • Shuffle iT Username: sudgy
  • It's pronounced "SOO-jee"
  • Respect: +2428
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #69 on: April 03, 2017, 11:44:18 am »
+2

That moment when you realize that you've accepted a mission to test a Mainsail on the surface of the Mun. That was one silly mission.

I once got a mission to test an engine in orbit of Kerbin, but it gave tons of money.  I accepted it, not realizing it was the LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine.
Logged
If you're wondering what my avatar is, watch this.

Check out my logic puzzle blog!

   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6968
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9095
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #70 on: April 03, 2017, 04:40:41 pm »
+1

I once got a mission to test an engine in orbit of Kerbin, but it gave tons of money.  I accepted it, not realizing it was the LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine.

You should be able to get an unused Twin-Boar into orbit for, like, $50k.

That moment when you realize that you've accepted a mission to test a Mainsail on the surface of the Mun. That was one silly mission.

That's... trickier.  A lot trickier.  No thanks.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3198
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3508
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #71 on: April 03, 2017, 06:01:59 pm »
0

It actually turned out to be easier than I expected! One Rockomax 16 and three FL-T800, with the Mainsail (as payload) and three Terriers has more than 3200 m/s of delta-v (since you will only be using the Terriers), even with all the extras you have to add onto it so that you can control and land it. Add a launcher stage, and you can easily get it to land on the Mun with quite a bit of fuel to spare. I probably would have been able to recover it with only minimal modifications. The whole rocket cost about 65k, and the contract was worth about 350k.

Still felt super silly.


By the way, you can always test engines on an empty tank (or no tank at all, AFAIK). You can also activate them via right clicking on them, if you need the thrust. I didn't need to do either of those things, but if you are having trouble with such contracts, that's one way to make it easier on you.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 06:05:38 pm by pacovf »
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3198
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3508
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #72 on: April 03, 2017, 11:40:13 pm »
+1

I tried a Panther spaceplane again. Mk2 Panther spaceplanes seems to be doable, although some might argue that if you are using a Skipper, it's more of a rocket than anything else.

This one just carried an empty cargo bay, but then again I didn't optimize the design nor the ascent path, so it probably works out to something that can send small satellites to orbit. Most likely not worth all the time I spent trying to make it work, but it was fun.

First picture is from my first attempt with it. I sent it on an orbit that was too high, and didn't have enough batteries to keep it pointed radial on reentry, so it burned up. I fixed those mistakes on my second attempt, added some extra fuel just in case, and landed without "too much" difficulty on the desert (if you think reentry is nerve wracking with a standard capsule, wait until you try spaceplanes).






Unrelated: Munar eclipse.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 11:41:21 pm by pacovf »
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6968
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9095
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2017, 08:10:20 pm »
+1

Ares I has landed!



Jeb and Glesei standing proudly next to their flag in Duna's Lowlands.  Now there's science to be done...

----

And paco, congrats on the various spaceplane launches!
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3198
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3508
    • View Profile
Re: Kerbal Space Program
« Reply #74 on: April 05, 2017, 09:08:56 pm »
0

...Well, I guess I will have to find some other name for my Mars lander.

Congrats on landing! I want to land too, but definitely aiming for a much smaller vehicle (that should nonetheless still make it back to Duna's orbit).
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All
 

Page created in 0.082 seconds with 21 queries.