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Author Topic: Dominion: Antiquity (WIP! Please help!)  (Read 2696 times)

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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Dominion: Antiquity (WIP! Please help!)
« Reply #75 on: July 17, 2017, 10:30:20 am »
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Quote
Anthropologist - Action
+1 card
+1 action
Choose one: Choose a card in play and put it on your Research mat; or, play a card from your Research mat.

Puzzle: How many +1 Cards +1Actions can I get out of King's Courting this?  ;)

+3 and +3; however to determine the full effect of this, I need to know what you've also played, what you already have on your Research mat, and also determine the ruling of whether or not you can target a card that is in play but has not fully resolved, i.e. whether you can put the King's Court that you are playing the triple-Anthropologist with onto the Research mat in order to get literally infinite plays.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Dominion: Antiquity (WIP! Please help!)
« Reply #76 on: July 17, 2017, 09:08:02 pm »
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There are a few cards Anthropologist has interesting interactions with. Hireling is another one.
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Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Dominion: Antiquity (WIP! Please help!)
« Reply #77 on: July 17, 2017, 10:50:36 pm »
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Come to think of it, worded as it is, it actually would let you put other players duration cards onto your mat. :P Probably not a good idea to keep it that way but hey...  ;D
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Antiquity (WIP! Please help!)
« Reply #78 on: July 18, 2017, 05:03:30 pm »
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Quote
Anthropologist - Action
+1 card
+1 action
Choose one: Choose a card in play and put it on your Research mat; or, play a card from your Research mat.

Puzzle: How many +1 Cards +1Actions can I get out of King's Courting this?  ;)

+3 and +3; however to determine the full effect of this, I need to know what you've also played, what you already have on your Research mat, and also determine the ruling of whether or not you can target a card that is in play but has not fully resolved, i.e. whether you can put the King's Court that you are playing the triple-Anthropologist with onto the Research mat in order to get literally infinite plays.

+3 for both is an option, but not the maximum. I can also put Anthropologist itself on the mat (as yes, nothing in the current wording keeps me from doing that) and when I play it the second time, put the King's Court there, then on the third time choose Antropologist itself to play it once more, playing King's Court again, which leaves me with +4 Cards, +4 Actions and the option to King's Court one of the drawn cards.
It's not infinite either, as King's Court only targets cards in your hand.

All this is to say: The wording has issues.

Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Dominion: Antiquity (WIP! Please help!)
« Reply #79 on: July 18, 2017, 05:20:32 pm »
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Agreed! Here is an updated version:

Quote
Anthropologist - Reaction - Action $3
Play a card from your Research Mat
-
On your turn, when you play an Action card, you may discard this card from your hand. If you do, put an Action card from play onto your Research Mat.

I think this suppresses most of the weird behaviors, since for example a King's Court would simply put three cards from your Research Mat into play.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 05:28:33 pm by Neirai the Forgiven »
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Aquila

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Re: Dominion: Antiquity (WIP! Please help!)
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2017, 05:42:30 am »
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Agreed! Here is an updated version:

Quote
Anthropologist - Reaction - Action $3
Play a card from your Research Mat
-
On your turn, when you play an Action card, you may discard this card from your hand. If you do, put an Action card from play onto your Research Mat.

I think this suppresses most of the weird behaviors, since for example a King's Court would simply put three cards from your Research Mat into play.

Well this is more in keeping with your set mechanics. As it is, I find it a little unclear how this is supposed to work. Suppose I only have one Action and one of these in hand. I play the Action then react with this. Do I resolve the Action before I move it to the mat? If I do, I would expect something like the wording from Royal Carriage and Coin of the Realm: 'directly after resolving an action, you may discard this...'

Assuming this is how it works, it is in essence Throne Room split into two cards. There would need to be 2 of these in hand during a turn to actually Throne something, and so because that means there's an extra card to buy and line up, this seems rather weak. You can of course replay an Action on a later turn, but by the time that later turn comes you likely have reshuffled your deck, so that it doesn't actually Throne the Action at all; you've only played it once each run-through of the deck.

So I feel this would be too weak to go with like this. I don't think there would be any technical problem adding some kind of bonus to the replays on this version; it wouldn't have to be +1 card +1 action, but that seems about right for balance.
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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Dominion: Antiquity (WIP! Please help!)
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2017, 12:10:53 pm »
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I previously had it at +1 Card +1 Action and it was clearly too strong (at that point, it actually turns into something like a Village that spends its own first Action to play itself, and has the ability to marshal around other cards, all for $3.)

I'm actually currently testing it with +1 Action.
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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Dominion: Antiquity (WIP! Please help!)
« Reply #82 on: July 24, 2017, 12:41:05 pm »
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Updated card, please give me feedbacks:

Quote
Stoneworks - $4 - Action
+1 Buy. Trash a card from your hand to gain a Silver to your hand. Also, if it was a Victory card, for each $3 it cost, gain 2VP and a Gold.
-
After you gain this, +1 VP whenever you gain a card until the end of your turn.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Antiquity (WIP! Please help!)
« Reply #83 on: July 24, 2017, 10:09:08 pm »
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Updated card, please give me feedbacks:

Quote
Stoneworks - $4 - Action
+1 Buy. Trash a card from your hand to gain a Silver to your hand. Also, if it was a Victory card, for each $3 it cost, gain 2VP and a Gold.
-
After you gain this, +1 VP whenever you gain a card until the end of your turn.

I think that

Quote
+1 Buy
Trash a card from your hand to gain a Silver to your hand.

can already compete with Trading Post, a 5$ (which trashes more cards, but also depends on trashing two and adds no buy).
Also, I think that translating 3$ to 2 VP and a Gold is really, really good payoff and probably makes a Duchy tfb strategy feasible on certain boards.
The last part is just icing on the cake. If I gain one of these during my Action phase, it can go nuts, especially with its own Silver/Gold gaining and +Buy.

Long story short, it's overpowered.

Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Dominion: Antiquity (WIP! Please help!)
« Reply #84 on: July 25, 2017, 04:57:41 pm »
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Asper, you're right. I'm going to have to find ways to tone the power down, probably to about 1/2 the level :S

It is imperative that the card be worth $4 so that it can combo up nicely with Ironworks et al.... but right now I think the power level might be $7-$10...
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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Dominion: Antiquity (WIP! Please help!)
« Reply #85 on: July 25, 2017, 08:11:06 pm »
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So here's some thinking:

1) Trader. Trader costs $4, and gives many Silvers on trash. That said, it won't give Silvers for Coppers + Curses, and you could (successfully) argue that getting Silvers all the time is a bad thing... nobody will trash a Province for 8 silvers unless they are playing Feodum, and even then. The difference in cost somewhat hinges on the difference between gain many (probably too many) Silvers to your deck vs. gaining one to your hand (Trading Post.)

2) Goons. Goons rightfully costs $6, and gives a lot of things. You could argue that removing the attack portion of Goons and nerfing its money down to $1 would make a card that is similar to goons but costs $3 or $4. So...

Quote
Nerfed Stoneworks -- Action -- $4
+1 Buy, +$1. When you buy a card when this is in play, gain +1VP.

I still think that this would be more cool as an on-gain effect, which is less powerful than an on-play, but if I also make it trigger on gains, then it is pretty damn powerful.

If I only make it trigger on buys, then it is weaker, but that would open up more design space... decisions.

I can trade the +$1 for a 'gain a silver' if I trash first, but only if I gain it to the discard pile, else we're in the $6-7 cost territory again.

Quote
Nerfedish Stoneworks -- Action -- $4
+1 Buy. Trash a card from your hand to gain a Silver.
-
After you gain this card, get +1VP for each card you buy until the end of your turn.

This is closer to what I want, but still has two challenges: 1) you can turn Coppers and Curses into Silver. This is like the Trader, but with no reaction. It also doesn't do something when you trash Victory cards, which is pretty much something I was hoping to do to give it later-game longevity. So what about the following:

Quote
Longlasting Balanced? Stoneworks -- Action -- $4
+1 Buy. Trash a card from your hand to gain a Treasure costing less than it.
-
After you gain this card, get +1VP for each card you buy until the end of your turn.

Now, this turns Coppers and Curses into nothing, but turns Estates into Coppers. Alternatively, in the late-game, this can turn the Actions you no longer want into Silvers or even Golds.
The negative side is that I've basically lost all reason for you to trash a Duchy or Province. For this reason, I am proposing:

Quote
Proposed possibly moderately OP Stoneworks -- Action --$4
+1 Buy. Trash a card from your hand to gain a Treasure costing less than it. If you trashed a Victory card, get +1VP for each card you buy until the end of your turn.
-
After you gain this card, get +1VP for each card you buy until the end of your turn.

I trust that I will test this, love it, and then realize it's too much text to put on one card.

What is your feedback, especially on cost? Which version feels most like $4?
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