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Author Topic: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning  (Read 27612 times)

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fp

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Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« on: June 24, 2011, 02:27:06 pm »
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Hello everyone, I have been away for the past week from Isotropic- which seems like forever. In any case, for the past month, I have been writing articles ranging gauged at players with various levels of experience, and I have decided to write my articles in a series called "making it to Level 42". (I should add that I have not reached that plateau yet). I plan to cover things from- in the importance of money, trashing, shuffling, and everything in between. Now, let's do this!

***

I've been addicted to Dominion Isotropic, and have gone from a mediocre player to a top 40 player in the past 6 months. As I play, I continue to see players misplay and learn from all the concepts I have learned along the way to becoming a top 40 player. And now, I will share some of my wisdom with you.



Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginning

We are going to start at the bottom, for that is where you start. In this article, I am not going to give any gameplay advice because realistically, reaching level 1 does not require any gameplay advice. Instead, I will explain some pointers regarding the mindset you should have when starting from the bottom.

1. Do not get frustrated; you are going to lose sometimes, and sometimes badly.

There are a lot of subtle concepts in Dominion that take time to understand. As you begin to play Dominion, you are going to play against players better than you, and sometimes MUCH better than you. And other times, the cards just will not shuffle your way. If you lose, learn from it. Even if you lose 100-3, pick yourself up, and see what you could have done better. But further, sometimes the score does not tell the whole picture. Even if you lose badly, the game was probably closer than you think.

2. Dominion has a lot of luck- you CAN'T win every game.

The second thing you should understand is that you are not going to win every game. Dominion has a large element of luck. Sometimes you are just going to get unlucky. Even the BEST players on Isotropic lose 36% of the time. Sometimes your buys will be “dead” (I'll explain that in a later article), and so your draws will not be effective. That is simply how it works. Your skill can only take you so far.

3. Dominion has a lot of skill- you CAN win much of the time.

The flip side of the coin is that it is possible to win 64% of the time. Every time you play, win or lose, you should reflect on what moves you made and whether or not they can be made any better. Many times, I see players wrongfully attribute their losses to luck. When you play, you should first ask yourself what you could have done to have improved your performance, and never, blame it on luck. It is easy to blame luck, but rarely is it luck.

4. Practise make purfect, Practize makes perfict, practive makes perfect, practice makes perfect!

Learn by playing. I teach college mathematics, so let me give you an analogy I give my students:
You can watch people do math just as you can watch people lift weights. However, watching people lift weights does not make you any stronger. Similarly, watching people do math, is not going to make you much better at math. In order to improve your muscles, your mind, or your ability, you have to struggle, or in other words, PRACTICE: you have to lift weights YOURSELF. The same is true with Dominion. Many times I will propose a game online with a player of a much lower rank (in part because no one else is on), and they decline- presumably because they are afraid. You should embrace the opportunity to play players better than you, to learn and practice. But further, when you play much higher ranked players, you should never have the mentality that you are going to lose. Take your time, think you can win, and go for it!

The Next step: Level 5- Money Makes Your Deck Go Round.

Until next time,
Keep Dominionating,
fp
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 04:44:19 pm by fp »
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rogerclee

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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2011, 03:05:49 pm »
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Great article idea, looking forward to the whole series.
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 05:21:02 pm »
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Playing better opponents is a really good way to learn.

Even better would be to analyse your game logs versus top players and look what they did with 3,4,5,6 $ and what you did. What was their strategy?

Or maybe you ask them after the game what you could have done better, many players will help you I think (maybe not do this when you got really lucky and won against them :-))

happy leveling
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 07:10:21 pm »
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Great series! All very well said so far, can't wait til you tell me how to get from from ~35 to 40 :P

A few quick typos/grammar things:

I continue to see players misplay and learn from all the concepts I have learned along the way -> ? something is weird here
mind set -> mindset
that takes some time -> that take some time
their loses -> their losses
do math, is not -> do math is not
a much smaller rank -> a much lower rank
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KMueller

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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2011, 03:52:01 pm »
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Thanks for the first article in the series. As someone who has figured out how to get to Level 5, slowly, I look forward to the next article.

I totally agree that one key is to analyze what the winner did. Sometimes your opponent is willing to chat after the game about what they were thinking. For a player in the 0-5 range, this can be an enlightening conversation.

There are so many combinations, it feels overwhelming to a beginner sometimes. A thought may go like this:

"Great, so now I know what I would do with a Watchtower, Goons, and Loan (or whatever), but when will I ever see that again."

But, they should store it away, and the applications of that lesson will serve them.

Thanks again.
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2011, 10:18:26 pm »
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Level 42?  Ah, now we know what the question is.

This seems like good advice.  Looking forward to future articles.
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Eagle

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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2011, 11:00:00 am »
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This looks interesting...

I've been stuck at lvl 23-25 for what seems like forever.  Every time I claw my way up to lvl 25 I lose to a couple level 1 players & drop back down the next day.  Hopefully something you have to say will make something click.
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2011, 07:48:34 pm »
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I've been stuck at 0. How do I get to level 1? :(
I have some of my games that I know the links to if it would help me to possibly ask for others to look over my games here and tell me what I'm doing wrong.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2011, 04:16:38 am »
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I've been stuck at 0. How do I get to level 1? :(
I have some of my games that I know the links to if it would help me to possibly ask for others to look over my games here and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Play me. I can't seem to beat anyone anymore =[ You'll have to catch me on auto-match though.
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2011, 06:25:23 am »
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I've been stuck at 0. How do I get to level 1? :(
I have some of my games that I know the links to if it would help me to possibly ask for others to look over my games here and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Play me. I can't seem to beat anyone anymore =[ You'll have to catch me on auto-match though.
Lol ok :)
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2011, 08:06:53 pm »
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I've been stuck at 0. How do I get to level 1? :(
I have some of my games that I know the links to if it would help me to possibly ask for others to look over my games here and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Well, I guess a question is:  do you want that done publicly?

It could certainly be useful to have a thread for "what did I do wrong?" sorts of questions, instructive for all new players.
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2011, 09:33:17 pm »
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Yes in star craft there is a site with a strategy section dedicated to 1) guides and 2) questions for what did I do wrong. So far I've been getting help through PMs only.
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Eagle

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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2011, 10:05:37 pm »
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I've been stuck at 0. How do I get to level 1? :(
I have some of my games that I know the links to if it would help me to possibly ask for others to look over my games here and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Well, I guess a question is:  do you want that done publicly?

It could certainly be useful to have a thread for "what did I do wrong?" sorts of questions, instructive for all new players.

I love this idea.  Even for intermediate players.  There's many games I think I've played a good strategy and end up getting slaughtered.  It would be interesting to see what the experts had to say about some of those games.
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2011, 10:16:29 pm »
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Note that it is possible to play a good strategy and still get slaughtered either a) if there's another strategy that's better, and more importantly b) just due to luck.

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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2011, 10:22:15 pm »
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And C) Luck plays a minor part in this game so you lost to a player of greater skill and greater knowledge of the mid/early/late game
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2011, 10:48:16 pm »
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Actually luck plays a huge role in this game. I mean, if your really really worse than your opponent, it won't matter (like if you're buying estates and coppers en masse early on), but generally it's going to matter at least a little, and if your strategy is reasonable, then there's a decent chance you'll hit. And if the strategies are really close, then luck is going to be a big factor. And some strategies are inherently luck-driven, even if they're good, i.e. opening potion/silver on a board where the only potion card (and only curse-giver) is familiar. 95% of the time, this is the right play, but there's a lot of luck as to whether you get that 3+p or not.

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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2011, 01:16:18 am »
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2. Dominion has a lot of luck- you CAN'T win every game.

The second thing you should understand is that you are not going to win every game. Dominion has a large element of luck. Sometimes you are just going to get unlucky. Even the BEST players on Isotropic lose 36% of the time. Sometimes your buys will be “dead” (I'll explain that in a later article), and so your draws will not be effective. That is simply how it works. Your skill can only take you so far.

3. Dominion has a lot of skill- you CAN win much of the time.

The flip side of the coin is that it is possible to win 64% of the time. Every time you play, win or lose, you should reflect on what moves you made and whether or not they can be made any better. Many times, I see players wrongfully attribute their loses to luck. When you play, you should first ask yourself what you could have done to have improved your performance, and never, blame it on luck. It is easy to blame luck, but rarely is it luck.


These numbers are terribly misleading.  Assuming you're talking about 2p games, if it were possible to win only 64% of your games, then 36% of your games you would have no chance of losing - even if you never bought a single card.  There's no magical way that some games will randomly roll for your opponent - they have to earn their victory through a reasonable strategy.  If their strategy is "Buy as many Pirate Ships as possible regardless of the other cards", they're going to have a poor overall winning rate even if every once in a while that strategy will be somewhat successful.  If they play straight Big Money regardless of the kingdom, they'll have a better win rate, and so on as they incorporate more good habits into their strategy.  There is a definite incline of playing skill wherein players make progressively better judgements throughout the game and reach, on average, better strategies.  It would be slightly more reasonable to say "The top ranked players have only a 64% win rate against players Level 1 or higher", but I'm not sure if such a statistic is available.  My personal win rate against un-Leveled players feels like it is much greater, and there have been numerous games against such players where I never felt I had a chance at losing.

In a large enough population wherein matchmaking is heavily based on rating, everyone's win rate is pretty close to 50% (except for the tail ends).  I'm unsure whether rating goes into how auto-match finds people, but I presume that at the top end the higher ranked players specifically seek each other out and there's at least a little bit of people declining matches against players of vastly different rating.  If the top ranked players on isotropic win 64% of their games, it really says that they're playing people against whom they have an average 64% win rate.
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2011, 01:33:47 am »
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Yes in star craft there is a site with a strategy section dedicated to 1) guides and 2) questions for what did I do wrong. So far I've been getting help through PMs only.

I'll start the thread.  Do you mind if I use one of your games to start off?
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2011, 07:58:43 am »
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Sure.
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2011, 03:59:04 pm »
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These numbers are terribly misleading.  Assuming you're talking about 2p games, if it were possible to win only 64% of your games, then 36% of your games you would have no chance of losing - even if you never bought a single card.  There's no magical way that some games will randomly roll for your opponent - they have to earn their victory through a reasonable strategy.  If their strategy is "Buy as many Pirate Ships as possible regardless of the other cards", they're going to have a poor overall winning rate even if every once in a while that strategy will be somewhat successful.  If they play straight Big Money regardless of the kingdom, they'll have a better win rate, and so on as they incorporate more good habits into their strategy.  There is a definite incline of playing skill wherein players make progressively better judgements throughout the game and reach, on average, better strategies.  It would be slightly more reasonable to say "The top ranked players have only a 64% win rate against players Level 1 or higher", but I'm not sure if such a statistic is available.  My personal win rate against un-Leveled players feels like it is much greater, and there have been numerous games against such players where I never felt I had a chance at losing.

My number(s) where simply looking at this page: http://councilroom.com/player?player=Larry who happened to be the number one ranked player at the time of writing. And further a quick survey of other top rated players yields similar results.

Quote
In a large enough population wherein matchmaking is heavily based on rating, everyone's win rate is pretty close to 50% (except for the tail ends).  I'm unsure whether rating goes into how auto-match finds people, but I presume that at the top end the higher ranked players specifically seek each other out and there's at least a little bit of people declining matches against players of vastly different rating.  If the top ranked players on isotropic win 64% of their games, it really says that they're playing people against whom they have an average 64% win rate.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but the match making is based more upon who is available (and preferences therein) than your ranking. The top rated players definitely do seek each other out, but I am tell you that I am lucky if there is a player above 35 logged on and often play players sufficiently below my ranking.

You do make excellent points; the percentage of the time a player wins is largely affected by who they play. Even so, the higher rated players who seek each other out still win (2 player games) 60-65% of the time. In any case, the point is that luck still plays a heavy role in the game while the game is very skill intensive. The corollary being, luck is easy to blame but is rarely the culprit.

Thanks for the comments, I plan on editing the above article and posting the new one when I have a chance.
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2011, 04:15:19 pm »
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It would be slightly more reasonable to say "The top ranked players have only a 64% win rate against players Level 1 or higher", but I'm not sure if such a statistic is available.

It would be interesting to see that statistic for various different levels.  I'm Lvl 25, and I'd bet that I don't come anywhere near winning 36% of games against lvl 40+ players.  I'm probably closer to 5 or maybe 10%.  and that goes back to my original comment of thinking this whole idea of "what did I do wrong", or "what could I have done better" discussions is a great idea.  It's not that I'm expecting to win every game, or that I'd expect even the high lvl players to win every game, but it would be really interesting to hear on a game-by-game basis why someone won and why someone lost, at least in the cases where it wasn't just blind luck that is the deciding factor.
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2011, 04:21:48 pm »
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this looks like what i need now!  ;)
really interesting! thanks
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2011, 04:44:39 pm »
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Great series! All very well said so far, can't wait til you tell me how to get from from ~35 to 40 :P

A few quick typos/grammar things:

I continue to see players misplay and learn from all the concepts I have learned along the way -> ? something is weird here
mind set -> mindset
that takes some time -> that take some time
their loses -> their losses
do math, is not -> do math is not
a much smaller rank -> a much lower rank

Thanks, edited
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Re: Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2011, 08:06:34 pm »
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Well i must say, nice article!

I myself have managed to get to level 22 by analyzing my games, learning which cards are better when, and playing with people who talk about their strategy.
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