Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Alternative Kingdom setup rules  (Read 954 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sparafucile

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 64
  • Respect: +120
    • View Profile
Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« on: February 13, 2017, 02:29:30 pm »
+1

This forum sees a lot of fan cards being made - but I'm wondering if there has been much discussion on how to play the offical cards, but with modified kingdom setup rules.    So in regular Dominion, during setup we choose 10 kingdom cards - available to all players for purchase.   Has anyone tried variations on this?  Ideas might include:
  • Different numbers of kingdom cards.  e.g. 12
  • Some kingdom cards randomly determined, 8 for example, with the remaining (2 in this case) chosen by the players
  • Mixing larger number of kingdom cards together into a "center deck" and then playing a la that style of deck builder
  • Assymetric kingdoms - where not all kingdom cards are available to both players

One idea I'm toying around with is a variation where, in a 2 person game, we randomly choose 8 kingdom cards - then each player gets to add 2 more kingdom cards for only their own use - to round out what they think is missing.  (village, +buy, +cards, gainer, trasher, vp, +cards, curser, etc etc)  Maybe everyone would pick the same power cards - don't know.

Any other ideas or thoughts?  If you have something that you have tried, I would love to hear it.
Logged

Chris is me

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2200
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +2478
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2017, 02:45:29 pm »
+1

Allowing players to choose Kingdom cards without constraints rarely ends well - you just get overpowered engines every time.

My preferred variant is a Draft variant similar to Black Market. Each player takes turns looking at 3 random cards and picking 1 of them to put into the game. Helps avoid duds but not enough control to make every game terrible
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

they/them

popsofctown

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4999
  • Respect: +2526
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2017, 10:35:55 pm »
0

My favorite is the one suggested for tournaments, here would be my version:  Present a 11 card kingdom to both players.  Each player writes, face down down the name of 1 (and a second?) card. Flip. If the names are different, play the game, players can't buy their opponent's named card.  If the names are the same, present a new 11 card kingdom and repeat.
Logged
Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

AdrianHealey

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2244
  • Respect: +764
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2017, 04:39:43 am »
+1

I do 12 card kingdoms for 4 players.

And every real life kingdom is an engine kingdom.
Logged

McGarnacle

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1015
  • Shuffle iT Username: McGarnacle
  • So, ya like doughnuts, eh?
  • Respect: +508
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2017, 09:11:41 am »
0

I've been thinking about this for a while. I think it could be pretty cool, but it does mean that you will never try making an engine with some bad cards. The draft system presented by Chris seems to be the best option, might try it out sometime.
Logged
This is exactly the kind of deep analysis I come to f.ds for. 

Forum Mafia Record
Town 1/2 50%
Scum 0/0 0%

Chris is me

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2200
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +2478
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2017, 09:49:54 am »
0

I do 12 card kingdoms for 4 players.

And every real life kingdom is an engine kingdom.

Do you also do 4 piles to end game, and/or 16 Provinces? I've been meaning to do this next time I convince three other people to actually play Dominion.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

they/them

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6356
  • Respect: +6906
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2017, 11:30:47 am »
+2

I do 12 card kingdoms for 4 players.

And every real life kingdom is an engine kingdom.

I do 20 card kingdoms for 4 players. I also use 16 of each base Victory card, but only 8 of each Kingdom VP card. I also use double the normal amount of treasures, but only 20 Curses. Finally, I split the treasure, VP, and curse piles into 2 piles each, so that I have 2 separate piles of Coppers, 2 separate piles of Silver, etc. Then I put half of the Kingdom piles on 1 table, and the other half on a different table. I put 1 of each VP, Treasure, and Curse pile on each table.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

AdrianHealey

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2244
  • Respect: +764
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2017, 11:35:40 am »
0

I do 12 card kingdoms for 4 players.

And every real life kingdom is an engine kingdom.

Do you also do 4 piles to end game, and/or 16 Provinces? I've been meaning to do this next time I convince three other people to actually play Dominion.

4 piles and I always add colonies/platinums in those games. And attacks that effect everyone equally.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6356
  • Respect: +6906
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2017, 11:55:17 am »
+1

I do 12 card kingdoms for 4 players.

And every real life kingdom is an engine kingdom.

Do you also do 4 piles to end game, and/or 16 Provinces? I've been meaning to do this next time I convince three other people to actually play Dominion.

4 piles and I always add colonies/platinums in those games. And attacks that effect everyone equally.

What do you mean by attacks that affect everyone equally? All attacks in Dominion do that, unless you mean the fact that Swindler might hit Copper for one player and Estate for another. In which case you can't really use any attacks, because one player might have a Moat in hand when you play Witch while another player might not.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

AdrianHealey

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2244
  • Respect: +764
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2017, 12:10:31 pm »
0

I do 12 card kingdoms for 4 players.

And every real life kingdom is an engine kingdom.

Do you also do 4 piles to end game, and/or 16 Provinces? I've been meaning to do this next time I convince three other people to actually play Dominion.

4 piles and I always add colonies/platinums in those games. And attacks that effect everyone equally.

What do you mean by attacks that affect everyone equally? All attacks in Dominion do that, unless you mean the fact that Swindler might hit Copper for one player and Estate for another. In which case you can't really use any attacks, because one player might have a Moat in hand when you play Witch while another player might not.

Militia is one example. One game I saw it used was won by the first player to play militia, because she was able to buy the key $5, and everybody else was fucking around with $4. Also getting hit with militia when you have 2 estates or not 2 estates sucks monkeyballs.

Cursers such as witch (but not sea hag) are more ok.

And I have a bunch of fan cards that are more also ok.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 12:12:28 pm by AdrianHealey »
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6356
  • Respect: +6906
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2017, 12:16:38 pm »
+1

I do 12 card kingdoms for 4 players.

And every real life kingdom is an engine kingdom.

Do you also do 4 piles to end game, and/or 16 Provinces? I've been meaning to do this next time I convince three other people to actually play Dominion.

4 piles and I always add colonies/platinums in those games. And attacks that effect everyone equally.

What do you mean by attacks that affect everyone equally? All attacks in Dominion do that, unless you mean the fact that Swindler might hit Copper for one player and Estate for another. In which case you can't really use any attacks, because one player might have a Moat in hand when you play Witch while another player might not.

Militia is one example. One game I saw it used was won by the first player to play militia, because she was able to buy the key $5, and everybody else was fucking around with $4. Also getting hit with militia when you have 2 estates or not 2 estates sucks monkeyballs.

Cursers such as witch (but not sea hag) are more ok.

And I have a bunch of fan cards that are more also ok.

I don't understand how that relates to not affecting everyone equally. Sounds to me like the Militia did affect everyone equally; it equally screwed over all the opponents of the person who played Militia. Sounds like you really mean attacks that give a strong first-player advantage?
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

MattLee

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
  • Respect: +60
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2017, 01:06:18 pm »
0

Quote
Some kingdom cards randomly determined, 8 for example, with the remaining (2 in this case) chosen by the players

My wife and I did exactly this when we were starting out and it worked well. It let us play our favorites more often and fill in holes on the board. Both players had access to all cards though, I haven't and wouldn't play a game that that wasn't true.
Logged

AdrianHealey

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2244
  • Respect: +764
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2017, 01:17:07 pm »
0

I do 12 card kingdoms for 4 players.

And every real life kingdom is an engine kingdom.

Do you also do 4 piles to end game, and/or 16 Provinces? I've been meaning to do this next time I convince three other people to actually play Dominion.

4 piles and I always add colonies/platinums in those games. And attacks that effect everyone equally.

What do you mean by attacks that affect everyone equally? All attacks in Dominion do that, unless you mean the fact that Swindler might hit Copper for one player and Estate for another. In which case you can't really use any attacks, because one player might have a Moat in hand when you play Witch while another player might not.

Militia is one example. One game I saw it used was won by the first player to play militia, because she was able to buy the key $5, and everybody else was fucking around with $4. Also getting hit with militia when you have 2 estates or not 2 estates sucks monkeyballs.

Cursers such as witch (but not sea hag) are more ok.

And I have a bunch of fan cards that are more also ok.

I don't understand how that relates to not affecting everyone equally. Sounds to me like the Militia did affect everyone equally; it equally screwed over all the opponents of the person who played Militia. Sounds like you really mean attacks that give a strong first-player advantage?

You say potato I say tomato
Logged

majiponi

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 329
  • Respect: +249
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2017, 07:01:48 pm »
0

This forum sees a lot of fan cards being made - but I'm wondering if there has been much discussion on how to play the offical cards, but with modified kingdom setup rules.    So in regular Dominion, during setup we choose 10 kingdom cards - available to all players for purchase.   Has anyone tried variations on this?  Ideas might include:
  • Different numbers of kingdom cards.  e.g. 12
  • Some kingdom cards randomly determined, 8 for example, with the remaining (2 in this case) chosen by the players
  • Mixing larger number of kingdom cards together into a "center deck" and then playing a la that style of deck builder
  • Assymetric kingdoms - where not all kingdom cards are available to both players

One idea I'm toying around with is a variation where, in a 2 person game, we randomly choose 8 kingdom cards - then each player gets to add 2 more kingdom cards for only their own use - to round out what they think is missing.  (village, +buy, +cards, gainer, trasher, vp, +cards, curser, etc etc)  Maybe everyone would pick the same power cards - don't know.

Any other ideas or thoughts?  If you have something that you have tried, I would love to hear it.

I let a beginner choose up to 5 Kingdom cards which only I cannot buy (self-contrabanding).

When I play with my friends, determining Kingdom is usually not totally-random, we agree to use some cards, or not to use, or sometimes don't start until we find it interesting. In a tournament like Rikohai (Waseda Univ Tournament in 2014), each player chose 2 or 3 cards from some, which only he/she can see, after they decide the turn order.

I played in some funny rules.

No fixed Kingdom cards rule : At the start of each turn, I reveal 10 cards from Black Market Deck. Only I can buy or gain is basic cards (Silver, Province, etc.) and the revealed cards. At the cleanup, the revealed cards are discarded like player's hand.

quantum dominion : we don't know what we bought until it is used. When I buy a card, I declare "I use $3", then I gain a blank card with a name, A. When nothing happens when I buy this, so we know it doesn't have on-gain/on+buy. When another player buys it declaring "buy A for $3, overpaying $2, to gain 2 Silvers", A will be Masterpiece, and for the rest of the game, A is used as Masterpiece. When another player plays B, which costs $5, he/she declares "Witch", B will be Witch. Before resolving, another player may declare card C which costs $2 as Moat. When another player would gain a Curse, he/she may declare card D which costs $4 as Trader. When scoring, only cards that are proved to have Victory type can be counted as Victory card. For example, when E is gained via card F, and draw a card, F is an ironworks, E will be Garden, Silk Road, or Feodum. Each player can treat E as he/she likes.
In this game, Black Market, Band of Misfits, Overlord are unused.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 08:13:21 pm by majiponi »
Logged

ackmondual

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 189
  • Respect: +110
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2017, 11:31:39 pm »
0

For tournament play...
Both 4p games...

1) 2 randomizers (cards) are dealt face up in front of the table.  These 2 will be 2 of the cards in the Kingdom.  Then, each player is then dealt 5 randomizers.  They each pick 2 to put out in front of them face down (so that all 4 players can select them simultaneously), while the other 3 are put back in the box.  1, 2, 3, flip them face up.  2 cards times 4 players + the 2 randomizers on the table = 10 Kingdom cards.

One game, mucho cards in the $5 range.  Next game, mucho cards in the $2 range, since it appears we all got 'panicky' about having too many expensive cards and not enough cheap ones :D

2) 14 Randomizers are dealt face up in the center.  Going in reverse order from the last player, (or was it in turn order from 1st player?), each player vetos one card so that after all players have vetoed one card, you're down to 10.

This way also makes the game take longer, as this beginning setup part is a game on its own.

other ideas, untried...
1) Thunderstone-style
Shuffle any Victory cards into the "Dungeon Deck".  The "Dungeon" contains 3 slots, from slot #0 through slot #2.  Purchasing the cards in slot #1 and #2 each 2 and 4 extra coins.  If you spend a +buy, then you can get a $2 discount on slot #1 and slot #2, and $4 discount on slot #2 of you spend +2 Buys

All the rest of the cards, non-Victory ones, form the standard Kingdom layout.

2) Ascension-style
Have a Center Row of 6 cards.  When a card is purchased, it is immediately replaced another one form the "Portal Deck".  The Always On cards include Silver and Duchies, but no Gold nor Provinces.  Gold and Provinces are mixed in the CR.  Keep tabs on when the appropriate number of Provinces or other Victory cards have been purchased

3) Nightfall-style
8 cards in the Kingdom.
Each player has 2 "private Kingdom supply piles" only they can purchase from.  For simple game, make this random or a preset.  For advance games, follow the drafting rules in that rulebook.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 11:33:39 pm by ackmondual »
Logged
Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy

Doom_Shark

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 238
  • Shuffle iT Username: Doom_Shark
  • Respect: +158
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2017, 12:26:22 am »
0

I've thought about a few setup variants:
1) each player chooses one card to add to the kingdom BEFORE the rest gets randomized
2) an 11 card kingdom in which each player has one card they are NOT allowed to buy
3) in reverse turn order, each player may choose to veto a pile, and a new random card is added instead
Logged
"I swear to drunk I'm not officer, God."
Generation 33 The first time you see this, copy it, add 1 to the generation number, and add it to your signature. (On any forum) Social experiment.

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
  • Respect: +27
    • View Profile
Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2017, 11:44:25 am »
+1

I once had a 1v1 tourney with a DOTA-style draft:

(with only one box involved) the players each banned 2 piles, then took picked 2, then banned one, then picked 2, then banned one and picked one.

It made for a bit different strategy.
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.088 seconds with 20 queries.