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Author Topic: Challenge: write a Moat article  (Read 1747 times)

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Awaclus

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Re: Challenge: write a Moat article
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2017, 01:46:31 pm »
0

Several people here act as if multiplayer wasn't even a thing.

Probably because it isn't.

trivialknot

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Re: Challenge: write a Moat article
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2017, 02:15:36 pm »
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The DominionStrategy Wiki mentions that Moat has a synergy with 3+ players.  Looks like this is one of the cases where the wiki >> f.ds.  I'm sure f.ds is ok with settling for 2nd best though.
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trivialknot

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Re: Challenge: write a Moat article
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2017, 02:19:30 pm »
+2

Although, I actually like that we get such bad advice for 3+ players.  Usually when my bf and I add a 3rd player, they're less experienced than us.  It's nice that they can sometimes beat us anyway because all our intuition is calibrated for 2P.
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aku_chi

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Re: Challenge: write a Moat article
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2017, 03:10:36 pm »
0

Pirate Ship is not notably better in 3+ player games.  Moat is, if there are stacking attacks present (e.g. most junkers).
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Awaclus

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Re: Challenge: write a Moat article
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2017, 03:18:43 pm »
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The DominionStrategy Wiki mentions that Moat has a synergy with 3+ players.  Looks like this is one of the cases where the wiki >> f.ds.

Well, the wiki is more casual than f.ds in many aspects.

Asper

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Re: Challenge: write a Moat article
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2017, 04:35:24 pm »
+8

Seriously Awaclus, Dominion's a board game. It might not occur to you, but people playing an online implementation for duellist rankings are neither the only, nor the most relevant group it's targeted towards. Your preferences are just that and don't override the preferences of others. Stop bullying people who want to talk about multiplayer.

Awaclus

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Re: Challenge: write a Moat article
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2017, 05:22:23 pm »
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Seriously Awaclus, Dominion's a board game. It might not occur to you, but people playing an online implementation for duellist rankings are neither the only, nor the most relevant group it's targeted towards.

They are, however, the only and the most relevant group my posts are targeted towards.

Razzishi

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Re: Challenge: write a Moat article
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2017, 08:20:22 pm »
+1

Didn't someone once upon a time simulate that in a 4-player game where 3 players go Witch/Moat, that Moat/Moat will win most often (perhaps only 30% of the time, but that's pretty good in 4P)?  At very least it's probably the best strategy available to Player 4: hope everyone else slows each other down more than you're getting slowed down, and benefit from having a slightly better deck due to spending 3 less on one of your Moats.
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Donald X.

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Re: Challenge: write a Moat article
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2017, 09:24:00 pm »
+13

Several people here act as if multiplayer wasn't even a thing.

Probably because it isn't.
what have I been playing all these years

because damn I should try to get this published
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JThorne

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Re: Challenge: write a Moat article
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2017, 10:54:52 am »
+3

Of note is a tiny piece of counter-intuitive math that I like to bring up to newish players. It applies to all draw-2 cards, not just Moat.

A draw-3 action isn't 50% more powerful than draw-2. It's twice as powerful. New players see it as "almost as good."

Since each card you buy also adds a card to your deck, when you're engine-building, buying a draw+3 effectively shrinks your deck by two cards. buying a draw+2 shrinks your deck by one card. It's half as good. It's like the difference in trashing power between Steward and Trade Route. (Notably, non-terminal draw+2s are effective because you buy the same number of cards for the same amount of drawing power as a village/draw+3, with the added benefit of more reliability.)

When a player sees that, with no trashing, it would take 5 copies of Village/Smithy to draw deck, but all 10 copies of Village/Moat to draw deck, that should hammer home the point.

Speaking of hammering home points, something else I see with alarming regularity is players underestimating the importance of +card in general. They buy too many terminals, or too much treasure, or too many +action cards that don't draw at all. Drawing even one card is a BIG DEAL. Seriously. It's what makes those yellow cards poison. It's why Baker is $5 and Candlestick Maker is $2 (and it even needed a +buy bump to be relevant!) Also, Pathfinding says Hi.
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