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Author Topic: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.  (Read 210815 times)

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Imrahil3

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1025 on: August 30, 2022, 01:08:09 pm »
+1

2/5 opening with Inheritance and Desperation - bought Inheritance on Turn 2! Even more useful, Ratcatcher happened to be in the kingdom, making the Curse very easy to deal with

My best was Baker/Borrow/Inheritance/Tournament. Opened Inherit/Province and managed to get a T3 Followers before they resigned.

Okay, this looks really cool but I知 not quite following. How did you open $7/$8?
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dane-m

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1026 on: August 30, 2022, 01:19:21 pm »
0

2/5 opening with Inheritance and Desperation - bought Inheritance on Turn 2! Even more useful, Ratcatcher happened to be in the kingdom, making the Curse very easy to deal with

My best was Baker/Borrow/Inheritance/Tournament. Opened Inherit/Province and managed to get a T3 Followers before they resigned.
Okay, this looks really cool but I知 not quite following. How did you open $7/$8?
I think I can work this out:

Turn 1: draw five Coppers, play them, spend Coffer, buy Borrow, buy Inheritance.  Inherit Tournament.
Turn 2: draw one Copper and three Estates (or two Coppers and two Estates, drawing the third Estate on the play of the first), play three Estates (+$1 for each), giving a hand of four Coppers.  Play them.  Buy Borrow, buy Province.

(Edit: I originally accidentally put my reply in the quoted section).
« Last Edit: August 31, 2022, 10:34:47 am by dane-m »
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mxdata

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1027 on: August 30, 2022, 01:28:16 pm »
0

2/5 opening with Inheritance and Desperation - bought Inheritance on Turn 2! Even more useful, Ratcatcher happened to be in the kingdom, making the Curse very easy to deal with

My best was Baker/Borrow/Inheritance/Tournament. Opened Inherit/Province and managed to get a T3 Followers before they resigned.

Okay, this looks really cool but I知 not quite following. How did you open $7/$8?

My guess:

Turn one: A hand with 5 Coppers. Use the coffer and Borrow to get $7, buy Inheritance

Turn two: A hand with 2 Coppers and two Estates (or 1 Copper and 3 Estates, depending on shuffle luck). If the Inherited card is something like Experiment, you could draw all 7 Coppers. Then use Borrow again, and now you have $8
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dpm

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1028 on: August 30, 2022, 02:04:04 pm »
+2

2/5 opening with Inheritance and Desperation - bought Inheritance on Turn 2! Even more useful, Ratcatcher happened to be in the kingdom, making the Curse very easy to deal with

My best was Baker/Borrow/Inheritance/Tournament. Opened Inherit/Province and managed to get a T3 Followers before they resigned.

Okay, this looks really cool but I知 not quite following. How did you open $7/$8?

My guess:

Turn one: A hand with 5 Coppers. Use the coffer and Borrow to get $7, buy Inheritance

Turn two: A hand with 2 Coppers and two Estates (or 1 Copper and 3 Estates, depending on shuffle luck). If the Inherited card is something like Experiment, you could draw all 7 Coppers. Then use Borrow again, and now you have $8

That won't work because you still need a Tournament to get Followers.  If you inherit Tournament instead, then playing the Estates as Tournaments gets you $3 plus four coppers, and Borrow will get you to $8. 

ETA: Although, that still doesn't seem to work -- your Estates miss the shuffle and so after T2 your deck is just 3 coppers, and you draw only 4 for your next hand, so is it possible to get Estate + Province in hand simultaneously?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2022, 02:09:54 pm by dpm »
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dane-m

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1029 on: August 31, 2022, 10:58:29 am »
+1

ETA: Although, that still doesn't seem to work -- your Estates miss the shuffle and so after T2 your deck is just 3 coppers, and you draw only 4 for your next hand, so is it possible to get Estate + Province in hand simultaneously?
Good point.  After my original reply I successfully worked out that the deck had 3 Coppers, so thought that the shuffle had to put Estate and Province as the top two cards, i.e. I had forgotten the effect of the Borrow.  Admittedly there are ways for a fifth card to be obtained, but they require another card (or cards) to be in the Kingdom.

One possibility is Lost City, with the opponent helpfully buying one at the right moment.

A second is Importer plus Band of Nomads (spend a favour for +1 card after buying the Province, thereby counteracting the -1 card token).

A third is Importer plus Cave Dwellers (spend favours to discard one or more cards to dig through to the missing Estate or Province).

A fourth is Importer plus City-State (with Province in hand, buy an Estate on T3 and spend favours to play it, but I don't think the Followers can then be played).

A fifth is Importer plus Desert Guides (spend a favour to discard the 4-card hand and draw five).

A sixth is Importer plus Fellowship of Scribes (shuffle Estate to top of the deck so that it's in the 4-card hand, play it, drawing Estate or Province, and then spend a favour to draw the necessary extra card, i.e. Province or Estate respectively).

A seventh is Importer plus Mountain Folk (spend five favours to draw three extra cards at the start of T3).

But the OP didn't mention any such combination as being part of the Kingdom.
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jomini

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1030 on: September 03, 2022, 08:40:12 am »
+2

2/5 opening with Inheritance and Desperation - bought Inheritance on Turn 2! Even more useful, Ratcatcher happened to be in the kingdom, making the Curse very easy to deal with

My best was Baker/Borrow/Inheritance/Tournament. Opened Inherit/Province and managed to get a T3 Followers before they resigned.

Okay, this looks really cool but I知 not quite following. How did you open $7/$8?

They opened Margrave. I opened Inherit/Tournament. I think they bought Silver. I bought Prov. They played Margrave. I got lucky again.
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dane-m

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1031 on: September 04, 2022, 02:14:31 am »
+1

They opened Margrave. I opened Inherit/Tournament. I think they bought Silver. I bought Prov. They played Margrave. I got lucky again.
Damn!  I missed that one.
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Gherald

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1032 on: September 08, 2022, 04:35:25 pm »
+4

With Souk/Gamble I had $22 and 7 buys on turn 6, bought two provinces and opponent resigned
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1033 on: September 09, 2022, 09:58:31 pm »
+1

With Souk/Gamble I had $22 and 7 buys on turn 6, bought two provinces and opponent resigned

Wow that Souks.
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humcalc216

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1034 on: September 14, 2022, 09:47:26 pm »
0

Road Network is good against Replace giving out Curses. You still get a Curse, but you also draw a card!
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jomini

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1035 on: September 16, 2022, 04:12:31 pm »
+2

Soukophant is good quick fun.

Souk wants an empty hand but is just barely short of $8. Sycophant gives you $3 while removing 4 cards from your hand. If $10 to buys was not enough to bootstrap into a very quick engine build, Sycophant's favors typically goose out a bonus that is equal to saving a turn on the build out (e.g. playing on gain means you can buy an extra Souk a turn, bankers just get crazy, and market towns can make collisions more powerful) with an option to trash for more with Souk.

I am not sure that going BM/Soukophant is good enough of its own right, but only because there is so much engine potential.
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Wizard_Amul

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1036 on: September 16, 2022, 07:04:00 pm »
+2

To add another somewhat similar Souk interaction that was fun, I had a game recently with Pawn + Souk + Royal Carriage. The Pawn can really be any non-terminal action that you can play to reduce your hand size. I had a megaturn where I played the Pawns to reduce my handsize down to 1 Souk, and then I replayed the Souk several times and bought out the remaining provinces.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1037 on: September 16, 2022, 10:51:01 pm »
0

Collection + Crown
Get VP from Collection for buying Crown, use Crown to double play the Collections.
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DaveColMD

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1038 on: September 17, 2022, 11:20:19 am »
0

Tiara + Fools Gold. Multiple Tiaras + multiple fools gold in hand adds up plus extra buys.
Gets really good if you can trash coppers and estates or have +card draw.
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jomini

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1039 on: September 17, 2022, 03:38:42 pm »
0

To add another somewhat similar Souk interaction that was fun, I had a game recently with Pawn + Souk + Royal Carriage. The Pawn can really be any non-terminal action that you can play to reduce your hand size. I had a megaturn where I played the Pawns to reduce my handsize down to 1 Souk, and then I replayed the Souk several times and bought out the remaining provinces.

Pawn is actually not that impressive here. You either need good trashing to increase the odds of getting Souk powered up to $6 or more (where six plays will let you buy more than 4 provinces) or you need to wait a long time before you line up enough Pawns to make it viable to hit $6.

With trashing, you can manage quite well without the gravy from pawns. Chapel, for instance, can let hit a Rc every Souk play with ease. Then when you load out, you can play Souk for $6, call 5 Rcs, and cash out for $36 which is win against all but the fastest alternatives or most careful and intricate duchy dancers.

Without trashing, you are playing for a lot of luck to get enough Pawns in hand with Souk to actually make the megaturn. Pretty much anything that sifts with a penalty is wildly superior (e.g. Cellar, Dungeon, Warehouse) and even terminals can be worth using to fish for the megaturn (e.g. Vault, Storeroom).

Pawns are certainly nice, but generally if a board will manage to let Souk/Rc/Pawn dominate, it will do so with just Souk/Rc and that combo is strong enough to work even on a lot of boards with no non-terminal, no draw cash.

Collection + Crown
Get VP from Collection for buying Crown, use Crown to double play the Collections.
Ehh, that is pretty marginal. The VP is the same until you reach the point where you are drawing your deck regardless. And at that point, there is direct competition between Collections and Crowns that trades them off for only a couple of points. On most boards a cheap $3/$2 combo (like Village/Moat) or more efficient draw (like Stables) goes a lot further.

Capitalism/Collections is typically vastly stronger than whatever you can manage from double playing individual Collections.

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Wizard_Amul

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1040 on: September 18, 2022, 11:11:21 am »
0

To add another somewhat similar Souk interaction that was fun, I had a game recently with Pawn + Souk + Royal Carriage. The Pawn can really be any non-terminal action that you can play to reduce your hand size. I had a megaturn where I played the Pawns to reduce my handsize down to 1 Souk, and then I replayed the Souk several times and bought out the remaining provinces.

Pawn is actually not that impressive here. You either need good trashing to increase the odds of getting Souk powered up to $6 or more (where six plays will let you buy more than 4 provinces) or you need to wait a long time before you line up enough Pawns to make it viable to hit $6.

With trashing, you can manage quite well without the gravy from pawns. Chapel, for instance, can let hit a Rc every Souk play with ease. Then when you load out, you can play Souk for $6, call 5 Rcs, and cash out for $36 which is win against all but the fastest alternatives or most careful and intricate duchy dancers.

Without trashing, you are playing for a lot of luck to get enough Pawns in hand with Souk to actually make the megaturn. Pretty much anything that sifts with a penalty is wildly superior (e.g. Cellar, Dungeon, Warehouse) and even terminals can be worth using to fish for the megaturn (e.g. Vault, Storeroom).

Pawns are certainly nice, but generally if a board will manage to let Souk/Rc/Pawn dominate, it will do so with just Souk/Rc and that combo is strong enough to work even on a lot of boards with no non-terminal, no draw cash.


I should have mentioned that there was also good trashing in my game, which like you said is also very helpful or just really good sifting could be nearly as good. As far as Pawn goes, like I said, Pawn wasn't the critical component, and anything that could get my handsize down to just 1 Souk would have been just as good. Getting many Pawns actually worked out well in my game because I could cantrip them until I find my Souk(s) and then play the rest of the Pawns for Action and +1 coin so that I'm left with just 1 Souk in hand (and a bunch of RC on the mat).

But yeah, Souk/RC on its own with good trashing is probably just about as good--maybe some small sifting is necessary, but as long as you can line up Souk with multiple RC on the final turn, the RC also reduce your handsize on their own. In my game, I ended up playing most of the RC on previous turns, but I could have played several on the final turn as well.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #1041 on: September 20, 2022, 10:54:11 pm »
0

Sycophant with Crafters' Guild as the Ally basically lets you get any $4 card on top of your deck for only $2. Granted, it comes with a Sycophant, which is often junk, but if you can trash it, you can get another $4 card on top of your deck, this time for free.
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