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Author Topic: What is the worst card in Dominion?  (Read 122100 times)

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markusin

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #175 on: March 04, 2014, 01:23:07 pm »
+1

Quote
Cache increases the variance of your deck way more than a $5 Masterpiece, so it combos with all the sifting cards in Hinterlands. It's quite good with Stables particularly, but it's hard to know when to buy a Cache instead of another Stables.

Does it ? I mean, you get extra coppers. If there is a hunting party or stables on the board, I'd rather go for that.
Beware the nightmare hand of 5 Stables. Also, Cache gives more Spice Merchant targets, making it lesa dead in the mid-late game.

This is just speculation. I don't understand Cache much myself.
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silverspawn

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #176 on: March 04, 2014, 02:05:52 pm »
0

Quote
Cache increases the variance of your deck way more than a $5 Masterpiece, so it combos with all the sifting cards in Hinterlands. It's quite good with Stables particularly, but it's hard to know when to buy a Cache instead of another Stables.

I don't get what you mean at all. Cache gives you 2 different cards, 1 new one and 1 you probably have already. masterpiece does the exact same thing. i see a small synergy with stables, since you get 2 coppers and 1 gold instead of 2 silvers and 1 copper, you can discard copper-copper and have gold, while with masterpiece you can just discard copper-silver and have a silver, so you get one coin more. same goes for warehouse and cellar. and it works with trashing, but man you don't want to trash 2 coppers just to be able to buy a 6$ card for $5.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 02:08:44 pm by silverspawn »
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jonts26

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #177 on: March 04, 2014, 02:10:13 pm »
+3

He means variance in terms of $ per hand. Having fewer but higher value treasures is better for occasionally buying high cost cards, like sneaking in a province or two in an alt vp game.
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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #178 on: March 04, 2014, 02:15:25 pm »
0

He means variance in terms of $ per hand. Having fewer but higher value treasures is better for occasionally buying high cost cards, like sneaking in a province or two in an alt vp game.

This.
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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #179 on: March 04, 2014, 03:01:53 pm »
0

I am missing Cache in this set - I almost never buy this.

cache isn't that bad, it's a gold for 5$ with watchtower
And if you had played that Watchtower for cards, you could've bought a Gold for $6 instead.
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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #180 on: March 04, 2014, 03:10:48 pm »
+2

I am missing Cache in this set - I almost never buy this.

cache isn't that bad, it's a gold for 5$ with watchtower
And if you had played that Watchtower for cards, you could've bought a Gold for $6 instead.

But you wouldn't get it on top of your deck.
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silverspawn

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #181 on: March 04, 2014, 03:50:52 pm »
0

I am missing Cache in this set - I almost never buy this.

cache isn't that bad, it's a gold for 5$ with watchtower
And if you had played that Watchtower for cards, you could've bought a Gold for $6 instead.

Quote
But you wouldn't get it on top of your deck.

yea, exactly. you can trash both coppers and topdeck the cage. often you're satisfied with $6 anyway, because you just want ot have the gold, so you'll not want to play the watchtower

Quote
He means variance in terms of $ per hand. Having fewer but higher value treasures is better for occasionally buying high cost cards, like sneaking in a province or two in an alt vp game.
i see. alright it has more variance

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #182 on: March 04, 2014, 06:00:54 pm »
0

Quote
For all the hate here about transmute, I actually like it sometimes. It works well as a starter to turn estates into gold, and then from that point on, acts as a situational-type trasher. Not to mention, it synergies all so nicely with vineyard.

Transmute has weird synergies with other cards.
I don't see vineyard really working - you can't clutter your deck with Transmutes.
Duke is one that comes to mind - Rebuild is another.

Transmute is great with vineyards (coppers arent that important, especially if there are two piles you can empty without them). But there is no time for Transmute if rebuild is around, though.
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Donald X.

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #183 on: March 11, 2014, 02:18:00 am »
+26

The card I get for my deck the least is Secret Chamber. I almost never get a Scout or Thief; I get Secret Chamber even less often.

The card I'm least happy with having been published as-is is Scrying Pool. I'd drop the attack.

The cards that contribute the least to the game are Feast and Woodcutter. They're in the main set, where every slot matters more, and they just offer so little. Woodcutter would be fine as the simple +buy card, but there are three other +buy cards in the main set.

The worst card in terms of rules issues is probably Trader, then Possession. Procession is trouble but I did it anyway and no regrets there. The most common card-based rules question overall is probably Throne Room / Feast, which the main set rulebook answers.

I guess I shouldn't pick out worst art. The worst flavor is Harem; why does that make you money, what's going on in this Harem.
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Asper

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #184 on: March 12, 2014, 09:39:07 pm »
0

The cards that contribute the least to the game are Feast and Woodcutter. They're in the main set, where every slot matters more, and they just offer so little. Woodcutter would be fine as the simple +buy card, but there are three other +buy cards in the main set.

I see why you are unhappy with Feast, but i think it has a place. At least if you open 4/3, it guarantees you will get that 5$ you want eventually. If you want to build a strategy around 5$s without lower priced cards that stay in your deck, one Feast per reshuffle can help quite a bit in my experience - i'm thinking of Minion, Hunting Party, Rebuild (shudder) and - of course - Highway.
In general, it makes me feel that no matter how bad my shuffle luck, i will get that Lab i want.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 09:40:25 pm by Asper »
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Donald X.

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #185 on: March 12, 2014, 11:01:21 pm »
+7

I see why you are unhappy with Feast, but i think it has a place. At least if you open 4/3, it guarantees you will get that 5$ you want eventually. If you want to build a strategy around 5$s without lower priced cards that stay in your deck, one Feast per reshuffle can help quite a bit in my experience - i'm thinking of Minion, Hunting Party, Rebuild (shudder) and - of course - Highway.
In general, it makes me feel that no matter how bad my shuffle luck, i will get that Lab i want.
I have failed to convince people of this before, but I will give you the first step anyway: the problem with Feast isn't that it has no value at all. The problem with Feast is that if I put another card in the main set instead, it would be trivial to have the replacement offer way way more than Feast does. The choice isn't "Feast or nothing," the choice is "Feast or something else," and something else would just be so much better.
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Robz888

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #186 on: March 12, 2014, 11:03:55 pm »
+11

The card I get for my deck the least is Secret Chamber. I almost never get a Scout or Thief; I get Secret Chamber even less often.

The card I'm least happy with having been published as-is is Scrying Pool. I'd drop the attack.

The cards that contribute the least to the game are Feast and Woodcutter. They're in the main set, where every slot matters more, and they just offer so little. Woodcutter would be fine as the simple +buy card, but there are three other +buy cards in the main set.

The worst card in terms of rules issues is probably Trader, then Possession. Procession is trouble but I did it anyway and no regrets there. The most common card-based rules question overall is probably Throne Room / Feast, which the main set rulebook answers.

I guess I shouldn't pick out worst art. The worst flavor is Harem; why does that make you money, what's going on in this Harem.

The art. Why do people even complain about the art. They can't all have like the best art ever.
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GeoLib

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #187 on: March 13, 2014, 01:49:37 am »
0

The card I get for my deck the least is Secret Chamber. I almost never get a Scout or Thief; I get Secret Chamber even less often.

The card I'm least happy with having been published as-is is Scrying Pool. I'd drop the attack.

The cards that contribute the least to the game are Feast and Woodcutter. They're in the main set, where every slot matters more, and they just offer so little. Woodcutter would be fine as the simple +buy card, but there are three other +buy cards in the main set.

The worst card in terms of rules issues is probably Trader, then Possession. Procession is trouble but I did it anyway and no regrets there. The most common card-based rules question overall is probably Throne Room / Feast, which the main set rulebook answers.

I guess I shouldn't pick out worst art. The worst flavor is Harem; why does that make you money, what's going on in this Harem.

The art. Why do people even complain about the art. They can't all have like the best art ever.

I like your impressions Robz; keep doing them.
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Axxle

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #188 on: March 13, 2014, 01:50:46 am »
0

Where's the best card in dominion thread?
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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #189 on: March 13, 2014, 02:04:27 am »
+2

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brewmaster27

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #190 on: March 14, 2014, 05:39:30 pm »
0


I notice now you actually said 'cards', not actions. So I suppose Platinum qualifies as it gives $5, and is a treasure so "non-terminal". Similarly I guess Bank can sometimes qualify, and Lio rightfully points out Death Cart can also give $5, and it's trashing is sometimes a benefit, so I guess that kinda counts as well. Beyond that... I can't think of much. Adventurer can give at least $4. Pirate Ship can give arbitrary amounts, but it's slow to do that and gives no other benefits. Vault, Secret Chamber and Storeroom can give more money than that, with other benefits - but that $4 comes at a huge cost of a big chunk of hand size.

Precisely. When I consider a card's "usefulness" I consider it with respect to its individual cost, what its synergies are, and also its opportunity cost (buying that card, as opposed to another card of equal cost) among other things. I know transmute is a bad card generally, but all it costs is a measly potion to get it. Also, there are certain boards where I feel like it can shine, (ie: if it's the only trasher card or other alchemy-based synergies are present). I think on boards that are predominantly alchemy-based, it's a decent choice because you can use it to get an early gold on a 4/3 split by simply buying a potion.


Now don't get me wrong. I don't think Harvest is the best $5 ever, or even really an especially good one. But if there were a $5 card which just said "+$4", I think it'd be up there with the power $5's. That's a lot of economy from just one action. Of course that isn't what Harvest does. The way it works means earlygame, +$2 is quite likely, while later on +$3 is common and +$4 happens more than +$2, but if you draw your whole deck, then there's a good chance Harvest is just dead. That makes it... pretty tough to make work to a level which is worth the buy, but it can be done, it's not unreasonable. For that reason, I think it's a weaker $5 card, but not the worst $5, and certainly not the worst card.

If there was a $5 card which just said "$+4", not only would it be up there with the power 5's, it'd just be completely over-powered. But indeed there are cards that can give you +$4 much more easily. The example that comes to my mind is Poor House, which at a cost of $1, is the cheapest card in the entire game. And as you pointed out, the effect of Harvest is way different than merely giving you $4. In fact, the chances of getting that $4 using Harvest is very, very slim because in order to take advantage of it, you'd literally have to base your deck around Harvest (and being that it's a terminal action, that's not a very good idea). The only other time I could see it as potentially useful is if your deck was filled up with junk (like curses, coppers, estates, ruins, or other garbage) and there was simply no other options to discard for benefit and gain more cards. But if your deck is already that bloated with junk, you're probably going to lose the game anyway.

Maybe it's not the overall worst card in Dominion... especially with stinkers like Duchess, Scout and Thief, but in terms of value, I think it is the worst in the game. At least Duchess, Scout, and Thief are reasonably priced ($2/$4) and have situational-type benefits. Same thing applies to Transmute, Secret Chamber, Moat, and so on. I just don't see a situational benefit to Harvest because there's almost always a <=$5 card that would be more useful given any particular subset of cards. Just my two cents though.
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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #191 on: March 14, 2014, 06:24:38 pm »
+3

If there was a $5 (action) card that just said +$4, it would be... okay. I don't think it would actually be great.

LastFootnote

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #192 on: March 14, 2014, 06:31:27 pm »
+2

If there was a $5 (action) card that just said +$4, it would be... okay. I don't think it would actually be great.

I don't think I necessarily agree with this, but the more important issue is that the card would be dull. And I'm not just talking dull because it's a vanilla effect. I mean that it would be a pretty strong strategy to just buy that card and Treasure, making for less interesting games.
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silverspawn

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #193 on: March 14, 2014, 07:17:52 pm »
0

If there was a $5 (action) card that just said +$4, it would be... okay. I don't think it would actually be great.

I don't think I necessarily agree with this, but the more important issue is that the card would be dull. And I'm not just talking dull because it's a vanilla effect. I mean that it would be a pretty strong strategy to just buy that card and Treasure, making for less interesting games.

and it'd be almost strictly superior to harvest and very similar to merchant ship

dominion123

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #194 on: March 30, 2014, 07:43:07 pm »
0

I appreciate the attack on the scrying pool. I notice in most games with scrying pool it goes very slow until it finally explodes. The attack makes this explosion come later, making the game longer and more enjoyable (for me).
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Awaclus

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #195 on: March 31, 2014, 10:58:46 am »
0

I appreciate the attack on the scrying pool. I notice in most games with scrying pool it goes very slow until it finally explodes. The attack makes this explosion come later, making the game longer and more enjoyable (for me).
Less enjoyable for your opponent.
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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #196 on: April 02, 2014, 01:30:50 am »
0

I appreciate the attack on the scrying pool. I notice in most games with scrying pool it goes very slow until it finally explodes. The attack makes this explosion come later, making the game longer and more enjoyable (for me).

Can't understand this argument. If one player doesn't buy scrying pool then the attack speeds up the explosion. If both by scrying pool, then the attack only slows down the explosion if it hits a key card (potion, scrying pool) early. But this rarely happens to one player, so you have one person exploding on time and the other losing.
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Titandrake

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #197 on: April 02, 2014, 02:45:05 am »
+2

I used to think the attack on Scrying Pool was neat, because it disguised its engine capabilities behind an image of "Oh it's Spy but better"

Then my opponent bought a Scrying Pool a shuffle before me, and discarded all my Potions for 2 reshuffles. Now I don't like it.
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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #198 on: April 18, 2014, 04:49:19 pm »
+1

Had to go with Contraband. $3 with a Buy is pretty good, but goddamn does the contraband itself hurt. Thief, Transmute, and Chancellor were all other contenders.

I really have a liking for Secret Chamber. I love setting up the top of my deck for Swindlers, Jesters, Knights, NB, etc. Even with Ghost Ship, it gives you a little more choice.

Moat: dat defense, though. It's great to be sitting pretty on that.

I've been in situations where I've really appreciated the cheapness of Duchess as a terminal Silver, so I have trouble calling it the worst.

Develop has that favorite thing of mine in Dominion, the potential for really creative play (why Count is one of my all-time favorite cards). It really good in engines where you're practically gaining the cards in hand.

When it comes to top-deck play, sure there's Apothecary, Cartographer, and Wandering Minstrel, which are all better, but you know...sometimes I REALLY want to know what's on top of my deck. If there's a combo potential with Mystic or Wishing Well, I'll probably throw Scout into the mix.

Counting House can be the center of a full-game strategy. Even though it needs support, it's hard to call it the worst for that reason.

Explorer: yeah, I wouldn't really consider this one. I like Silver. I like it in my hand best. Nuff said.

Finally, especially with some good trashing like Loan, you could definitely do worse than Adventurer when it comes to Big Money.
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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #199 on: April 18, 2014, 07:32:53 pm »
0

When I first voted in this thread, all those aeons ago, I voted for Counting House, but I have to say I disagree now.  I'm going to repeat the sentiment of the person above me by saying Contraband.  I've grown to appreciate Chancellor, Thief is moderately useful in Gardens games or 4-player games, and Transmute is cute.  Secret Chamber is usually just a more expensive Poor House.  But none of them are as stab-you-in-the-foot-y as Contraband.
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