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Author Topic: What is the worst card in Dominion?  (Read 122116 times)

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tlloyd

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #125 on: February 10, 2012, 03:23:43 pm »
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-- There is almost no other situation where Scout is very useful. It's not even a good sifter, really.

Minion, Tactician, Scrying Pool, Vault, Wishing Well, against Ghost Ship and that is just from the top of my head...

Yes, Scout is bad. But still - he is an ugly cousin of Cartographer and Cartographer is pretty good so...

I really like Scout, it is my most favourite card from this list ;D

Scout can also be an effective counter to Fortune Teller and (much more importantly) Rabble - especially late-game multi-Rabble pins. But Farming Village is an even stronger counter, costs the same, and is useful in a much broader set of circumstances. Scout should have been "draw any green from top four cards, then +1 card +1 action."

I am afraid that would be too strong even for 5$...I mean, look at Cartographer...

Maybe if you first draw the card, then get the green and rearange the rest...but still it's too powerfull imo...

Notice that Scout only reveals 4 cards, while Cartographer reveals 5--that is significant when it comes to sifting/cycling. If the victory cards are useful (either because they are dual-type or because you have Crossroads/vault/SC/warehouse/cellar), then having them in hand is better than discarding, but there are also situations where you'd prefer to discard (tunnel or menagerie/library/watchtower). Most significantly, Cartographer (which is not exactly a powerhouse at $5) can filter out coppers, curses, etc., which Scout is powerless against. I don't think the upgraded Scout would be remotely over-powered at $4.
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Robz888

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #126 on: February 10, 2012, 03:27:25 pm »
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-- There is almost no other situation where Scout is very useful. It's not even a good sifter, really.

Minion, Tactician, Scrying Pool, Vault, Wishing Well, against Ghost Ship and that is just from the top of my head...

Yes, Scout is bad. But still - he is an ugly cousin of Cartographer and Cartographer is pretty good so...

I really like Scout, it is my most favourite card from this list ;D

Let me take these one by one:

Minion: When do you pick up Scout in a Minion game? Not in the first two turns, when you desperately need a trasher, or $$ to get to $5. Losing the Minion race is tantamount to losing the game in most Minion setups, right? I guess it's not a terrible buy if you have a random turn with $4 in hand... but getting all the Minions, and doing a little trashing, is way more important.

Tactician: It would be okay, except I can't see myself saying, "Yes, let me spend this turn buying a Scout with my $4 in order to hopefully pair it with my Tactician, hopefully draw at least 1 green card into my current hand, and minutely improve my Tactician hand." You would need like, a couple Scouts for that to be any sort of strategy, and I don't think anyone wants to defend buying 2-3 Scouts (unless Crossroads, GH, Nobles, and Harem all come to the party, and even then the Crossroads and GHs are more important for less money).

Scrying Pool: Since Scrying Pool decks tend to overload on Actions, I can see buying Scout (even multiple Scouts!) in this case. But Coppers are a bigger problem than Estates for the early Scrying Pool deck, and Scout doesn't do anything about that, so it's only a $4 I would buy if there weren't any other good spammable $4s--no Caravans, Mining Villages, etc. Scout might be helpful nearer to end if you have the right amount of money for it.

Vault: I don't think Scout meaningfully improves a Vault deck. Vault decks hit their target amounts of money pretty easily.

Wishing Well: Yeah, I agree with you here. Of course, since Wishing Well draws a card to begin with, if you're Scout does a really good job--draws 3 green cards into hand--it won't work. So interestingly, Scout failing to do what it's supposed to do is one of its better uses, when paired with Wishing Well.

Ghost Ship: Yes, but similarly to Rabble, I don't know if it's a meaningfully good counter unless you have a bunch of Scouts, and you'd still rather have Farming Village or Lighthouse.

So, you're definitely right that I misspoke earlier. Scout can be useful in a few other situations. But I'm not sure it's more useful than buying a different $4, or just buying Silver, most of the time, even in those situations.
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Robz888

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #127 on: February 10, 2012, 03:30:38 pm »
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Scout can also be an effective counter to Fortune Teller and (much more importantly) Rabble - especially late-game multi-Rabble pins. But Farming Village is an even stronger counter, costs the same, and is useful in a much broader set of circumstances. Scout should have been "draw any green from top four cards, then +1 card +1 action."
It's a counter, but I'm not sure I'd call it an effective one. Sure, Scout will bail you out of a Rabble attack the one time you have it in hand. But that's not really going to matter if you're being Rabble-pinned every turn. And buying extra Scouts is a huge problem, because Scout doesn't do anything in the situation except defend against the Attack, so you aren't really improving your deck. It's much more worthwhile for your deck to load up on Farming Villages and Lighthouses.

Did you read beyond the first sentence of my post?

Sorry, I read the whole thing. I didn't quote the rest because I didn't have an intelligent comment for your sentence about improving Scout. I wasn't trying to say you were wrong--it looks like we pretty much agree. I was sort of just adding on to your thoughts about Scout vs. Farming Village in that situation. Sorry if I came across as disagreeable.
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Kahryl

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #128 on: February 10, 2012, 03:57:07 pm »
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Quote
"draw any green from top four cards, then +1 card +1 action."

This version of scout is too boring.  It's basically an unreliable Laboratory.  Either you're drawing two cards, or one.

The thing Scout does is really unique and interesting.  It should just be increased in power - look at 6 of your cards, not 4.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #129 on: February 10, 2012, 04:00:21 pm »
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Chancellor is probably the card here where my opinion is highest compared to the community at large... it's a good percentage play if you're angling for Mountebank or Familiar...
I'm pretty sure Chancellor goes pretty poorly with cursing. Intuitively, the problem is that your discard pile is not generally stronger than your deck for a good part of the game, so the ability is unlikely to help you. Simulator agrees, saying that adding a Chancellor opening to Mountebank is significantly worst than just Silver/Silver (like 37-58). Of course it misplays Chancellor, but even so, it's unlikely to help much, at least as an opening. There are usually better things to open with.

How badly does it misplay? Does it, for example, discard when mountebank is still in the deck? That would certainly make a pretty massive difference.
Yeah, it does. It definitely overuses the ability, so I'm not saying that I'm getting an accurate win probability. However, the point is that you will actually not want to use the ability often, as evidenced by how bad you do if you always use it. This means that in curse decks, chancellor is actually worse than it is in non-curse decks.

-- There is almost no other situation where Scout is very useful. It's not even a good sifter, really.

Minion, Tactician, Scrying Pool, Vault, Wishing Well, against Ghost Ship and that is just from the top of my head...

Yes, Scout is bad. But still - he is an ugly cousin of Cartographer and Cartographer is pretty good so...

I really like Scout, it is my most favourite card from this list ;D

Scout can also be an effective counter to Fortune Teller and (much more importantly) Rabble - especially late-game multi-Rabble pins. But Farming Village is an even stronger counter, costs the same, and is useful in a much broader set of circumstances. Scout should have been "draw any green from top four cards, then +1 card +1 action."

I am afraid that would be too strong even for 5$...I mean, look at Cartographer...

Maybe if you first draw the card, then get the green and rearange the rest...but still it's too powerfull imo...

Notice that Scout only reveals 4 cards, while Cartographer reveals 5--that is significant when it comes to sifting/cycling. If the victory cards are useful (either because they are dual-type or because you have Crossroads/vault/SC/warehouse/cellar), then having them in hand is better than discarding, but there are also situations where you'd prefer to discard (tunnel or menagerie/library/watchtower). Most significantly, Cartographer (which is not exactly a powerhouse at $5) can filter out coppers, curses, etc., which Scout is powerless against. I don't think the upgraded Scout would be remotely over-powered at $4.
But you're ignoring the fact that you want the improved scout draw to occur after the sift instead of before, which seems like a pretty big deal to me.
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tlloyd

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #130 on: February 10, 2012, 04:35:38 pm »
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Quote
"draw any green from top four cards, then +1 card +1 action."

This version of scout is too boring.  It's basically an unreliable Laboratory.  Either you're drawing two cards, or one.

I'm not sure I follow you here. Are you assuming on average that 1 card out of your top 4 will be green? I get the comparison to Cartographer, but not to Lab.

Quote
The thing Scout does is really unique and interesting.  It should just be increased in power - look at 6 of your cards, not 4.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but I think it would be hard to price in a way that was balanced. In any games with dual-type Victory cards this would be insane.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 04:43:19 pm by tlloyd »
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tlloyd

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #131 on: February 10, 2012, 04:41:37 pm »
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@HME:

Drawing after rearranging would be a big advantage, but it doesn't clearly make Scout overpriced at $5. However, I think +1 card before revealing would still be a nice fix for Scout, so I won't argue the point.
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O

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #132 on: February 10, 2012, 04:45:29 pm »
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I'm pretty sure Chancellor goes pretty poorly with cursing. Intuitively, the problem is that your discard pile is not generally stronger than your deck for a good part of the game, so the ability is unlikely to help you. Simulator agrees, saying that adding a Chancellor opening to Mountebank is significantly worst than just Silver/Silver (like 37-58). Of course it misplays Chancellor, but even so, it's unlikely to help much, at least as an opening. There are usually better things to open with.
Quote

How badly does it misplay? Does it, for example, discard when mountebank is still in the deck? That would certainly make a pretty massive difference.
Yeah, it does. It definitely overuses the ability, so I'm not saying that I'm getting an accurate win probability. However, the point is that you will actually not want to use the ability often, as evidenced by how bad you do if you always use it. This means that in curse decks, chancellor is actually worse than it is in non-curse decks.


Excuse my editing of the massive quote-chain if it messes up..

I agree that Chancellor is pretty useless when you want to optimise buying power. But as an opening buy, Chancellor gets your curser into play 1-2 turns quicker frequently, and has an ok (though by no means great) and cycling your curser significantly quicker after the first reshuffle. This is obviously most true with the Cantrip familiar, where I'd open chancellor/potion over silver/potion almost every game, but might also be good enough at winning the curse race to counteract the collision disadvantage with Witch/Mountebank. With IGG or Hag, though, I'd say pretty clearly chancellor is terrible in most cases (well, in IGG if you have any other terminal..)
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chwhite

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #133 on: February 10, 2012, 04:56:48 pm »
+1

I'm pretty sure Chancellor goes pretty poorly with cursing. Intuitively, the problem is that your discard pile is not generally stronger than your deck for a good part of the game, so the ability is unlikely to help you. Simulator agrees, saying that adding a Chancellor opening to Mountebank is significantly worst than just Silver/Silver (like 37-58). Of course it misplays Chancellor, but even so, it's unlikely to help much, at least as an opening. There are usually better things to open with.
Quote

How badly does it misplay? Does it, for example, discard when mountebank is still in the deck? That would certainly make a pretty massive difference.
Yeah, it does. It definitely overuses the ability, so I'm not saying that I'm getting an accurate win probability. However, the point is that you will actually not want to use the ability often, as evidenced by how bad you do if you always use it. This means that in curse decks, chancellor is actually worse than it is in non-curse decks.


Excuse my editing of the massive quote-chain if it messes up..

I agree that Chancellor is pretty useless when you want to optimise buying power. But as an opening buy, Chancellor gets your curser into play 1-2 turns quicker frequently, and has an ok (though by no means great) and cycling your curser significantly quicker after the first reshuffle. This is obviously most true with the Cantrip familiar, where I'd open chancellor/potion over silver/potion almost every game, but might also be good enough at winning the curse race to counteract the collision disadvantage with Witch/Mountebank. With IGG or Hag, though, I'd say pretty clearly chancellor is terrible in most cases (well, in IGG if you have any other terminal..)

If you don't have another terminal, might as well go Chancellor/Silver in an IGG game.  Obviously Chancellor is horrible in Hag and YW games, and I'd expect it to be worse than Silver for Witch, as well: the +2 Cards drastically increases terminal collision risk, to the point where potentially better cycling isn't worth it.

As for Scout... drawing a card *after* you filter the green and rearrange is an insane buff.  Tacking on +1 Card before you sift makes it more comparable to Apothecary: normally a tad weaker is my guess, but that's appropriate since $4 < $2P.  It would be a strong $4 that way, obviously worth it with VP Kingdom cards and Wishing Well, and at least a decent addition to most decks.  I tend to prefer a minimum-change approach, though: just make it cost $3, or look at the top 5 cards instead of the top 4; you could perhaps get away with doing both of those things.    It still wouldn't be a power card, but that's okay.


Other potential buffs for the worst cards here:

-Adventurer should probably just cost $5, since what kills it is the fact it always has to compete with Gold, and the boards where Adventurer > Gold are just so rare.  Alternatively, you could tack on a +Buy, so if you do build the sort of deck which can grab lots of cash with Adventurer, you're able to do better than just Province.  Adventurer with +Buy is probably still a weak-ish $6, but it's no longer in the running for most overpriced card in the game.

-Transmute is just killed by the Potion cost; it would be stronger at $5, since then it's at least a reasonable Turn 1 option a la Trading Post.  If you have to keep the potion, and you probably do since there are only ten Potion cards in the game, there are a number of approaches I can think of: perhaps it can give you Silver for each Curse it trashes, or maybe it should let you trash up to two cards at a time, and/or let you pass on the gain if you want to (so you can go Copper -> Nothing if you so choose).  Or it could give you the new card in hand, or on top of deck.  Transmuting an Estate into a Gold you get to use right now might actually be a worthwhile strategy sometimes.

- Counting House probably wants some insurance against drawing it at the top of your deck when it's useless. Maybe add an option "+1 Action, put this card on top of your deck"?  Stronger still, would be for the Counting House to gain you a copper each time you play it.  Though that might actually be too strong, since it might become a strategy-in-a-box on many boards.

- At the very least, Thief should do something for you the turn you play it.  I'm okay with keeping the risk of helping your opponent with copper trashing, what I'd do actually would be to have Thief cost $5 (yes!) but to also make it a terminal silver for you in addition to the attack.  That way, you're not killing your buy power on Thief turns, and the virtual cash also functions as somewhat of a fail-safe against potential lockdowns.

None of the other cards need any improvement.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 05:18:22 pm by chwhite »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #134 on: February 10, 2012, 05:37:57 pm »
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-Adventurer should probably just cost $5, since what kills it is the fact it always has to compete with Gold, and the boards where Adventurer > Gold are just so rare.  Alternatively, you could tack on a +Buy, so if you do build the sort of deck which can grab lots of cash with Adventurer, you're able to do better than just Province.  Adventurer with +Buy is probably still a weak-ish $6, but it's no longer in the running for most overpriced card in the game.
Pretty much agree.

Quote
-Transmute is just killed by the Potion cost; it would be stronger at $5, since then it's at least a reasonable Turn 1 option a la Trading Post.  If you have to keep the potion, and you probably do since there are only ten Potion cards in the game, there are a number of approaches I can think of: perhaps it can give you Silver for each Curse it trashes, or maybe it should let you trash up to two cards at a time, and/or let you pass on the gain if you want to (so you can go Copper -> Nothing if you so choose).  Or it could give you the new card in hand, or on top of deck.  Transmuting an Estate into a Gold you get to use right now might actually be a worthwhile strategy sometimes.
The only of these that's really small is letting you choose to take nothing, which barely buffs it at all. Making it non-terminal is what I'd want to do. And it would still be dreadful
Quote
- Counting House probably wants some insurance against drawing it at the top of your deck when it's useless. Maybe add an option "+1 Action, put this card on top of your deck"?  Stronger still, would be for the Counting House to gain you a copper each time you play it.  Though that might actually be too strong, since it might become a strategy-in-a-box on many boards.
Just giving you a copper, without the +action, probably generally makes it stronger. But I can't see it being too too strong that way. The extra coppers aren't usually that great for you anyway. I like this fix, and still think it would be a pretty darn weak card that I'd not want too often (but amazing for alternate green card strategies).
Quote
- At the very least, Thief should do something for you the turn you play it.  I'm okay with keeping the risk of helping your opponent with copper trashing, what I'd do actually would be to have Thief cost $5 (yes!) but to also make it a terminal silver for you in addition to the attack.  That way, you're not killing your buy power on Thief turns, and the virtual cash also functions as somewhat of a fail-safe against potential lockdowns.
Here, I'd just let you top-deck the stolen money, have thief still be weak, just not SO bad, and be fine with it.

RisingJaguar

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #135 on: February 10, 2012, 05:59:14 pm »
+1

Scrying Pool: Since Scrying Pool decks tend to overload on Actions, I can see buying Scout (even multiple Scouts!) in this case. But Coppers are a bigger problem than Estates for the early Scrying Pool deck, and Scout doesn't do anything about that, so it's only a $4 I would buy if there weren't any other good spammable $4s--no Caravans, Mining Villages, etc. Scout might be helpful nearer to end if you have the right amount of money for it.
I think this is slightly being misplayed (or more correctly, misunderstood) in scrying pool situations.  The point isn't to have 3 estates come into your hand when you play it, its to re-arrange the cards as you draw them (in this context).  This is part of the card's ability, a poor... very poor addition. 

It has SOME use in a +card/+action deck that cards need to be in a particular order.  It doesn't help nearly enough for it to be worth it, ie. scout/village in hand, move cards to draw your torturer when playing village.  I personally like this effect when building certain +action/+cards, but I'm a scrub.  But with scrying pool, it makes a world of difference. 

This is about as extreme as possible, but if your cards were Gold, Action, copper, Action in that order.  You would have to choose between forgoing gold, or hoping and settling for action/copper.  Now if you rearranged it, you can discard copper, get 2 actions and gold.  That's a significant enough of a buff to make scout playable in scrying pool.  The point is to make scrying pool more efficient.  True this isn't need in all cases, scrying pools are pretty adept to getting the deck cleanly, but it helps near the start where you have only say 2-3 scrying pools.  Add the fact it has +1action and is an action itself.  It's decent here. 

There's also something to getting the victory cards IN HAND that's at least different than cartographer's discarding ability.  The discarding is much more consistent in its use, but cards like warehouse, crossroads, cellar (ew) or just general deck management (ie. triggering reshuffle after the fact, cartographer's ability makes you essentially stop at the end of the deck.)  I'm not saying scout > cartographer, just that there are times when scout's ability is playable. 
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Piemaster

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #136 on: February 15, 2012, 02:15:59 am »
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*grunch*

I voted Duchess.  I figure that any card which I regularly turn down when offered for free has got to be pretty bad.
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chwhite

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #137 on: February 15, 2012, 09:21:58 am »
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-Transmute is just killed by the Potion cost; it would be stronger at $5, since then it's at least a reasonable Turn 1 option a la Trading Post.  If you have to keep the potion, and you probably do since there are only ten Potion cards in the game, there are a number of approaches I can think of: perhaps it can give you Silver for each Curse it trashes, or maybe it should let you trash up to two cards at a time, and/or let you pass on the gain if you want to (so you can go Copper -> Nothing if you so choose).  Or it could give you the new card in hand, or on top of deck.  Transmuting an Estate into a Gold you get to use right now might actually be a worthwhile strategy sometimes.
The only of these that's really small is letting you choose to take nothing, which barely buffs it at all. Making it non-terminal is what I'd want to do. And it would still be dreadful
Quote
- Counting House probably wants some insurance against drawing it at the top of your deck when it's useless. Maybe add an option "+1 Action, put this card on top of your deck"?  Stronger still, would be for the Counting House to gain you a copper each time you play it.  Though that might actually be too strong, since it might become a strategy-in-a-box on many boards.
Just giving you a copper, without the +action, probably generally makes it stronger. But I can't see it being too too strong that way. The extra coppers aren't usually that great for you anyway. I like this fix, and still think it would be a pretty darn weak card that I'd not want too often (but amazing for alternate green card strategies).

My thinking with the "choose to take nothing" bit was that if you had both that *and* the option to trash two rather than one, the Transmute could work as more of a conventional trasher.  That's probably too far afield from the initial intent, though.  As for the CH fix, I have this nagging doubt that if it gave you a Copper each time you used it, you could just build a dumb CH deck that buys nothing but Counting Houses and Province/Colony, and it could end up at almost Chancellor/Stash levels of effectiveness and resilience-to-attack.  (More resilience in terms of hand reduction, even).  That would be too strong.

Scout is a marginal improvement to Scrying Pool decks... but it is an improvement.  Outside of the obvious Intrigue synergies, Scrying Pool and Vineyard are the two cards that come to my mind first as reasons to pick up a Scout.  With Pool, arranging your top four cards to get maximum draw can sometimes be worth it, and Scout is legitimately useful if your Vineyards deck is stuffed with cantrips but not better +Card, and you really do need to clear those Vineyards out of your next hand.  (Also, well, it's another action to pump up said Vineyards.) 

...

Oh, and: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/14/game-20120214-122158-16cfc299.html

Another example of Transmute being useful in Curse games.  My opponent was surprised to see it work.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 09:23:59 am by chwhite »
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Kahryl

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #138 on: February 15, 2012, 02:38:54 pm »
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Now that I think about it, the most useless card IMO has to be Stash. And it's not even on this list.

I have never been able to see the point of it at all.  The only combo it really works with is Chancellor, as far as I can tell.  And the ONE time my opponent tried Chancellor/Stash, he lost to my rather pedestrian BM game.

I think it would be awesome if your stashes went in a separate deck, that counted as part of your main deck, but any time you had to draw a card you could choose to "draw it from your stash".  That way you could dynamically choose to draw a silver instead of (random card) instead of having to predict the friggin future.
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jotheonah

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #139 on: February 15, 2012, 02:54:42 pm »
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Now that I think about it, the most useless card IMO has to be Stash. And it's not even on this list.

I have never been able to see the point of it at all.  The only combo it really works with is Chancellor, as far as I can tell.  And the ONE time my opponent tried Chancellor/Stash, he lost to my rather pedestrian BM game.

I think it would be awesome if your stashes went in a separate deck, that counted as part of your main deck, but any time you had to draw a card you could choose to "draw it from your stash".  That way you could dynamically choose to draw a silver instead of (random card) instead of having to predict the friggin future.

Did you miss Wandering Winder's Stash-as-counter-to-Sab post? Made me think maybe there's more to it.

Your version would be amazing in multiplayer Pirate Ship games.
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mischiefmaker

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #140 on: February 15, 2012, 06:05:57 pm »
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I have never been able to see the point of it at all.  The only combo it really works with is Chancellor, as far as I can tell.  And the ONE time my opponent tried Chancellor/Stash, he lost to my rather pedestrian BM game.
Simulator has Chancellor/Stash, played properly, as a monster favorite over Big Money (73-22). Even the built-in Chancellor/Stash, which is non-optimized, is a 60-30 favorite.

I guess it's possible your opponent played the combo so badly that he actually was an underdog, but that's really tough to do. (I tried, and even a very bad strategy that only buys Province-Stash-Chancellor, and goes for Duchies too late, is favored over optimized BMU + Stash -- even when it sometimes ends up with 6-7 Chancellors in a <30 card deck!) Seems more likely that he just got unlucky.

I'm not saying Stash is a powerhouse, but it's reasonably useful in a BMU deck for helping to smooth first-reshuffle draws, and Chancellor/Stash is as good as advertised.

Did you miss Wandering Winder's Stash-as-counter-to-Sab post? Made me think maybe there's more to it.
Do you have a link to this handy? I searched for "stash saboteur" but only turned up a couple of posts by chwhite.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 06:14:25 pm by mischiefmaker »
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jsh357

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #141 on: February 15, 2012, 06:20:05 pm »
0

Oracle/Stash is also great in my experience.  I doubt a simulator would play it well since playing it well involves stacking the Stashes properly.  Since with Oracle you get to peek at cards first, then draw, you have two reshuffle trigger periods possible per Oracle that you play.  With Stash, you can control what you're getting this turn or the next pretty often. 

But really, Stash is still better than most of the cards on this list since it's a $2 treasure card.  That puts it above Transmute and Scout in my book.
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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #142 on: February 15, 2012, 09:36:30 pm »
0

Stash is strictly better than silver but for cost (and possession shenanigans). Which means that while it isn't all that special, it's not that terrible. It can be quite good with lots of things (I do live NV/Stash), and it is often a good defense to attacks.

chwhite

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #143 on: February 15, 2012, 10:17:51 pm »
+2

Stash is the Mendoza Line of Dominion cards.
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O

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #144 on: February 15, 2012, 11:15:51 pm »
0

We should be allowed to change our votes in this poll.


http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120213-150351-a0e5b7d5.html

   --- O's turn 7 ---
   O plays 3 Coppers and a Cache.
   O buys a Cache.
   ... gaining 2 Coppers.
   (O reshuffles.)
   (O draws: a Counting House and 4 Coppers.)

--- O's turn 11 ---
   O plays a Native Village.
   ... getting +2 actions.
   ... drawing a card and placing it on the Native Village mat.
   O plays a Copper and 3 Caches.
   O buys a Province.
   (O reshuffles.)
   (O draws: 4 Coppers and a Counting House.)
-------

The two times I saw the card in the entire game; I bought turn 4. The odd walled village buy was to try and manipulate reshuffles.. didn't help.



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jotheonah

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #145 on: February 16, 2012, 01:07:59 pm »
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Did you miss Wandering Winder's Stash-as-counter-to-Sab post? Made me think maybe there's more to it.
Do you have a link to this handy? I searched for "stash saboteur" but only turned up a couple of posts by chwhite.


http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1753.0

I'm on these boards way too freaking much.
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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #146 on: February 16, 2012, 01:30:38 pm »
0

Mmm, dissapointed I am in your lack of Moat Hate!
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Robz888

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #147 on: February 16, 2012, 01:39:56 pm »
0

We should be allowed to change our votes in this poll.


http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120213-150351-a0e5b7d5.html

   --- O's turn 7 ---
   O plays 3 Coppers and a Cache.
   O buys a Cache.
   ... gaining 2 Coppers.
   (O reshuffles.)
   (O draws: a Counting House and 4 Coppers.)

--- O's turn 11 ---
   O plays a Native Village.
   ... getting +2 actions.
   ... drawing a card and placing it on the Native Village mat.
   O plays a Copper and 3 Caches.
   O buys a Province.
   (O reshuffles.)
   (O draws: 4 Coppers and a Counting House.)
-------

The two times I saw the card in the entire game; I bought turn 4. The odd walled village buy was to try and manipulate reshuffles.. didn't help.

Ugh. I feel like that always happens to me, too. I mean, I practically never buy Counting House. The least the card could do is not show up immediately after the reshuffle on the off-chance I did buy it. Really, Counting House should have some clause that if you draw it when there are no Coppers in your discard, you can shuffle it back into your deck, or something.
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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #148 on: February 16, 2012, 01:45:32 pm »
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Unfortunately, the first hand after a reshuffle is the hand in which Counting House (or indeed any card) is most likely to show up.
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jimjam

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Re: What is the worst card in Dominion?
« Reply #149 on: February 16, 2012, 01:51:15 pm »
0

Mmm, dissapointed I am in your lack of Moat Hate!

Moat's not that good, but sometimes you're glad to have it (I'm blue):
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120215-010350-4e276cc9.html
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