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[GendoIkari]

Especially bot games where you resigned? I've resigned dozens of games against the bot at the very beginning because I didn't want to play that particular kingdom. If bot games count, I'm going to have a terrible ranking.

[JW]

The developers have said that bot games will never count in the rankings, presumably for exactly the reasons you mention.

[Dingan]

I've been resigning a lot of games that have pretty much only the default familiar cards.  I really hate to resign, especially to new players that are getting a "first impression" of the game.  But it's like, after the 10th Chapel-Workshop-Village-Gardens-... game in a row, it's like come on already.  Anybody else do this?  I assume this all counts towards rankings, right?  But it's just not worth it, with how the current Quick Match / familiar cards infrastructure works.  Of course this could be avoided with Good Match, but that has its own set of pains (long wait time, don't play new players very often, etc.).

[Watno]

Atm no games count towards ratings at all.

[JW]

Of course this could be avoided with Good Match, but that has its own set of pains (long wait time, don't play new players very often, etc.).

For me, "Good Match" is "wait until jaybeez comes online" match. Jaybeez is great, but I'd like to be matched up against someone even when jaybeez isn't around! (The rating criteria should be adjustable!)

[GendoIkari]

Atm no games count towards ratings at all.

That's not true is it? The FAQ says that the ranking exists, there's just no interface to view your ranking. But rankings are used for "good match".

[Watno]

The ratings used for matching are the old isotropish ratings for now.

[LastFootnote]

I've been resigning a lot of games that have pretty much only the default familiar cards.  I really hate to resign, especially to new players that are getting a "first impression" of the game.  But it's like, after the 10th Chapel-Workshop-Village-Gardens-... game in a row, it's like come on already.  Anybody else do this?  I assume this all counts towards rankings, right?  But it's just not worth it, with how the current Quick Match / familiar cards infrastructure works.  Of course this could be avoided with Good Match, but that has its own set of pains (long wait time, don't play new players very often, etc.).

Yeah, when Stef and SCSN introduced "familiar cards", I was like, "Awesome, what a novel way to slowly introduce new cards to players!" And then it turns out that cards you use aren't automatically added to "familiar cards", and most players don't bother to adjust those settings. I mean I should have known better than to expect common sense from Shuffle iT, but come on.

[Kirian]

Of course this could be avoided with Good Match, but that has its own set of pains (long wait time, don't play new players very often, etc.).

For me, "Good Match" is "wait until jaybeez comes online" match. Jaybeez is great, but I'd like to be matched up against someone even when jaybeez isn't around! (The rating criteria should be adjustable!)

But... Good Match will match you against someone, ignoring familiar cards.

[GendoIkari]

I mean I should have known better than to expect common sense from Shuffle iT, but come on.

Is this meant light-heartedly, or are you actually insulting them?

[LastFootnote]

I mean I should have known better than to expect common sense from Shuffle iT, but come on.

Is this meant light-heartedly, or are you actually insulting them?

I am totally insulting them. To be fair, they've done pretty well considering they're two dudes with no game-making experience. But they're still WAY behind, and their priorities are pretty messed up.

[ThetaSigma12]

I like ShuffleIT's implementation....

[LastFootnote]

I like ShuffleIT's implementation....

I enjoy playing it, too. It's pretty great for hardcore Dominion players. It's a huge step back for everybody else.

[ThetaSigma12]

I like ShuffleIT's implementation....

I enjoy playing it, too. It's pretty great for hardcore Dominion players. It's a huge step back for everybody else.

Yeah, but I'm not a hardcore dominion player. I can just accept the fact that they don't have X yet and enjoy using Y.

[werothegreat]

I like ShuffleIT's implementation....

I enjoy playing it, too. It's pretty great for hardcore Dominion players. It's a huge step back for everybody else.

I think it might behoove them to hire on some more staff, even if just for administrative stuff.  I mean, you see great games put up on Steam made by one or two people (Banished, Undertale, Stardew Valley), but they usually spend years doing it.

[markusin]

I like ShuffleIT's implementation....

I enjoy playing it, too. It's pretty great for hardcore Dominion players. It's a huge step back for everybody else.

I think it might behoove them to hire on some more staff, even if just for administrative stuff.  I mean, you see great games put up on Steam made by one or two people (Banished, Undertale, Stardew Valley), but they usually spend years doing it.

Are they still officially only two people?

[Icehawk78]

I think it might behoove them to hire on some more staff, even if just for administrative stuff.  I mean, you see great games put up on Steam made by one or two people (Banished, Undertale, Stardew Valley), but they usually spend years doing it.

I mean, hiring people takes money, which I don't know if they have or not. Speaking as a developer... we're not exactly cheap.

[LastFootnote]

I like ShuffleIT's implementation....

I enjoy playing it, too. It's pretty great for hardcore Dominion players. It's a huge step back for everybody else.

I think it might behoove them to hire on some more staff, even if just for administrative stuff.  I mean, you see great games put up on Steam made by one or two people (Banished, Undertale, Stardew Valley), but they usually spend years doing it.

Are they still officially only two people?

Unless they're actually paying others, yes.

[Kirian]

I like ShuffleIT's implementation....

I enjoy playing it, too. It's pretty great for hardcore Dominion players. It's a huge step back for everybody else.

I don't know, man.  I never have difficulty finding a "good match."  So either:

(1) Casual players don't mind nearly as much as you think, or
(2) The hardcore:casual is higher than you think.

[Awaclus]

Being a casual is far more skippable than people think.

[LastFootnote]

I like ShuffleIT's implementation....

I enjoy playing it, too. It's pretty great for hardcore Dominion players. It's a huge step back for everybody else.

I don't know, man.  I never have difficulty finding a "good match."  So either:

(1) Casual players don't mind nearly as much as you think, or
(2) The hardcore:casual is higher than you think.

Ah, sorry. What I mean is that there are no campaigns and the (single) AI is horrible. Or at least it was horrible on January 1st. Has it improved? Anyway, no campaigns and no mobile client. There's a pretty sizeable group of players who only used MakingFun for play vs. AI, and they are now left without the product they bought or a suitable replacement.

And also the animations need work. That should be priority number one: making the log completely unnecessary for playing the game AND for being able to tell what your opponent(s) are doing.

[GendoIkari]

And also the animations need work. That should be priority number one: making the log completely unnecessary for playing the game AND for being able to tell what your opponent(s) are doing.

See I'm really confused by this, because all I ever heard for years when Goko came out was how terrible and unnecessary the animations were, and how much better it was when Isotropic was around and all you needed was the nice log.

That, and ShuffleIT does animate stuff that's happening... I'm not sure why people are finding the need to look at the log to figure out what's going on.

[werothegreat]

And also the animations need work. That should be priority number one: making the log completely unnecessary for playing the game AND for being able to tell what your opponent(s) are doing.

See I'm really confused by this, because all I ever heard for years when Goko came out was how terrible and unnecessary the animations were, and how much better it was when Isotropic was around and all you needed was the nice log.

That, and ShuffleIT does animate stuff that's happening... I'm not sure why people are finding the need to look at the log to figure out what's going on.

My take wasn't that there were animations, it's that the animations they had were gaudy and flashy and annoying.  Same thing with their sounds and music - their sounds and music were annoying as all hell.  That doesn't mean I don't want sounds and music.

Also, people liked iso, and rah rah nostalgia whatever.

[Beyond Awesome]

Also, you initially couldn't turn off animations on goko. Also, having to do things from the log is a big no no, IMO.

[Cave-o-sapien]

That, and ShuffleIT does animate stuff that's happening... I'm not sure why people are finding the need to look at the log to figure out what's going on.

There are many events that are not visually displayed except in the log.

Then there are events that aren't shown anywhere, not even in the log.

I'm really enjoying the ShuffleIt implementation, and I'm cheering for them and supporting them $$$, but these things need to be addressed ASAP.

[LastFootnote]

And also the animations need work. That should be priority number one: making the log completely unnecessary for playing the game AND for being able to tell what your opponent(s) are doing.

See I'm really confused by this, because all I ever heard for years when Goko came out was how terrible and unnecessary the animations were, and how much better it was when Isotropic was around and all you needed was the nice log.

That, and ShuffleIT does animate stuff that's happening... I'm not sure why people are finding the need to look at the log to figure out what's going on.

Humor me and do an experiment. Cover the right part of your screen where the log is and play a game. One will do. I think you'll at least get the idea of what I'm talking about. It's very difficult to see what your opponent is gaining.

[markusin]

And also the animations need work. That should be priority number one: making the log completely unnecessary for playing the game AND for being able to tell what your opponent(s) are doing.

See I'm really confused by this, because all I ever heard for years when Goko came out was how terrible and unnecessary the animations were, and how much better it was when Isotropic was around and all you needed was the nice log.

That, and ShuffleIT does animate stuff that's happening... I'm not sure why people are finding the need to look at the log to figure out what's going on.

Humor me and do an experiment. Cover the right part of your screen where the log is and play a game. One will do. I think you'll at least get the idea of what I'm talking about. It's very difficult to see what your opponent is gaining.

I think there might be this "uncanny valley" thing going on where the graphics of the game suggest that it should play like Goko/MF but feels off because really it's more like Isotropic with a pretty skin.

Actually no, the current implementation is a hybrid of Goko/MF and Isotropic, with many but not all features tied to buttons outside the log. That inconsistency is a major source of confusion I'd say.

I'm tempted to say Isotropic was not well suited for mobile, but I'm pretty sure people played Isotropic mobile anyway. It's more that the Isotropic style interface of log buttons does not take advantage of the available screen real estate.

The name-a-card issue of not being able to name out-of-supply cards is major if you ask me, due to the existence of Shelters. Doctor, Wishing Well, Mystic, and the like suffer big time. Hopefully that is high on the to-do list.

I still like a lot of things about the new implementation though.

[Kirian]

And also the animations need work. That should be priority number one: making the log completely unnecessary for playing the game AND for being able to tell what your opponent(s) are doing.

See I'm really confused by this, because all I ever heard for years when Goko came out was how terrible and unnecessary the animations were, and how much better it was when Isotropic was around and all you needed was the nice log.

That, and ShuffleIT does animate stuff that's happening... I'm not sure why people are finding the need to look at the log to figure out what's going on.

Humor me and do an experiment. Cover the right part of your screen where the log is and play a game. One will do. I think you'll at least get the idea of what I'm talking about. It's very difficult to see what your opponent is gaining.

But that was true for MF as well.

[LastFootnote]

And also the animations need work. That should be priority number one: making the log completely unnecessary for playing the game AND for being able to tell what your opponent(s) are doing.

See I'm really confused by this, because all I ever heard for years when Goko came out was how terrible and unnecessary the animations were, and how much better it was when Isotropic was around and all you needed was the nice log.

That, and ShuffleIT does animate stuff that's happening... I'm not sure why people are finding the need to look at the log to figure out what's going on.

Humor me and do an experiment. Cover the right part of your screen where the log is and play a game. One will do. I think you'll at least get the idea of what I'm talking about. It's very difficult to see what your opponent is gaining.

But that was true for MF as well.

Huh? Maybe if you had animations off or on very fast. I had animations on medium and each card gained on another player's turn hovered briefly in the center of the screen. Made it real easy to follow the game.

[LastFootnote]

I still like a lot of things about the new implementation though.

I like a lot of things about the new implementation, too. But there are so many things that need work.

[drsteelhammer]

And also the animations need work. That should be priority number one: making the log completely unnecessary for playing the game AND for being able to tell what your opponent(s) are doing.

See I'm really confused by this, because all I ever heard for years when Goko came out was how terrible and unnecessary the animations were, and how much better it was when Isotropic was around and all you needed was the nice log.

That, and ShuffleIT does animate stuff that's happening... I'm not sure why people are finding the need to look at the log to figure out what's going on.

Humor me and do an experiment. Cover the right part of your screen where the log is and play a game. One will do. I think you'll at least get the idea of what I'm talking about. It's very difficult to see what your opponent is gaining.

To be fair, that would be a bit difficult with Reserve cards, but I did something similar: I played a game with Russian text without knowing any letter of the cyrillic alphabet. And yes, I won that game without being confused about what was going on.

[jaybeez]

Of course this could be avoided with Good Match, but that has its own set of pains (long wait time, don't play new players very often, etc.).

For me, "Good Match" is "wait until jaybeez comes online" match. Jaybeez is great, but I'd like to be matched up against someone even when jaybeez isn't around! (The rating criteria should be adjustable!)

I'm both flattered and confused by this post.

[JW]

Of course this could be avoided with Good Match, but that has its own set of pains (long wait time, don't play new players very often, etc.).

For me, "Good Match" is "wait until jaybeez comes online" match. Jaybeez is great, but I'd like to be matched up against someone even when jaybeez isn't around! (The rating criteria should be adjustable!)

I'm both flattered and confused by this post.

You are often the only person using good match at the same time that I'm using it who has a rating that the system considers acceptable. So I wait a while and if you show up, I get a game! If I could adjust the rating criterion, this presumably would not occur.

[jaybeez]

Oh, okay.  I guess I hadn't noticed that we'd played each other inordinately often lately.

[Kirian]

And also the animations need work. That should be priority number one: making the log completely unnecessary for playing the game AND for being able to tell what your opponent(s) are doing.

See I'm really confused by this, because all I ever heard for years when Goko came out was how terrible and unnecessary the animations were, and how much better it was when Isotropic was around and all you needed was the nice log.

That, and ShuffleIT does animate stuff that's happening... I'm not sure why people are finding the need to look at the log to figure out what's going on.

Humor me and do an experiment. Cover the right part of your screen where the log is and play a game. One will do. I think you'll at least get the idea of what I'm talking about. It's very difficult to see what your opponent is gaining.

But that was true for MF as well.

Huh? Maybe if you had animations off or on very fast. I had animations on medium and each card gained on another player's turn hovered briefly in the center of the screen. Made it real easy to follow the game.

I clicked animations off as soon as that option was available, and never played with that shiny bullshit again.  It was horrific.  I have no idea if they changed them to be reasonable or not.  Plus I cannot imagine how long it would take to deal with the animations for a long turn.  I suspect I'd want to kill someone before the game ended.

[JKRich]

The ratings used for matching are the old isotropish ratings for now.

Do the "isotropish" ratings only apply to those who played on Isotropic? I first played on MF. If not, what would my rating be and what is the possible range of ratings (hard to know w/o explanation what +/-30 means)? If so, are they posted somewhere or can I get an idea based on my MF ratings?

Plus I cannot imagine how long it would take to deal with the animations for a long turn.  I suspect I'd want to kill someone before the game ended.

Agreed -- certain animations on MF were torturous (like when a bot had several Spies), and at times I would crank the animation speed to the max to skip to the end of those turns, with going back and forth being a real pain. One idea I hope S/i considers is adding a Skip (to End of Turn) button to allow skipping the animations of long turns, say anything involving >3 Actions maybe. Still, they've already made a bunch of speed improvements to things like reactions (e.g. Hovel), duplicate card dispersal (TMap, Feodum, ...), etc. and I really like (and kind of think it's almost essential to have) the option of having a game simulate the pace of playing IRL. Sure, some people won't need or want it, but to appeal to the broadest possible customer base (kids to seniors, disabled, etc.) I think they'd want to have it, if nothing else to also promote the physical game (for DXV/RGG's sake).

[Rabid]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16719.msg664894#msg664894

isotropish = Isotropic style ratings, based on MF data.