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majiponi

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Attack resolving
« on: January 22, 2017, 09:36:27 pm »
+6

Alice, Bob, Catherine, and Danny are playing.
When Alice plays Followers,

1. Bob gains a Curse, Bob discards down to 3 in hand, Catherine gains a Curse, ...
2. Bob gains a Curse, Catherine gains a Curse, Danny gains a Curse, Bob discards down to 3 in hand, ...

Which is correct? This matters in a real edge case - for example, Watchtower, Tunnel, and Market Square.
How about Bandit and other Attack cards? What decides the block of resolving?

(I want to know to make Japanese translation for Online Dominion more accurate.)
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werothegreat

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2017, 10:00:02 pm »
+2

Since "...gains a Curse and discards" is one phrase, I'd say #1.  If they were separate phrases, I'd have gone with #2.
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Donald X.

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2017, 10:14:21 pm »
+5

Alice, Bob, Catherine, and Danny are playing.
When Alice plays Followers,

1. Bob gains a Curse, Bob discards down to 3 in hand, Catherine gains a Curse, ...
2. Bob gains a Curse, Catherine gains a Curse, Danny gains a Curse, Bob discards down to 3 in hand, ...

Which is correct? This matters in a real edge case - for example, Watchtower, Tunnel, and Market Square.
How about Bandit and other Attack cards? What decides the block of resolving?

(I want to know to make Japanese translation for Online Dominion more accurate.)
When it says "each other player does stuff," the first other player does all the stuff, then the second, and so on.
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werothegreat

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2017, 12:34:59 am »
+2

Alice, Bob, Catherine, and Danny are playing.
When Alice plays Followers,

1. Bob gains a Curse, Bob discards down to 3 in hand, Catherine gains a Curse, ...
2. Bob gains a Curse, Catherine gains a Curse, Danny gains a Curse, Bob discards down to 3 in hand, ...

Which is correct? This matters in a real edge case - for example, Watchtower, Tunnel, and Market Square.
How about Bandit and other Attack cards? What decides the block of resolving?

(I want to know to make Japanese translation for Online Dominion more accurate.)
When it says "each other player does stuff," the first other player does all the stuff, then the second, and so on.

So, by a literal interpretation, the 1st edition version of Soothsayer should make everyone gain a Curse, then everyone draw a card, whereas the 2nd edition (at least, what's on Dominion Online) should make each player gain and draw before moving on to the next player?  Not that it really matters, just as a theoretical.
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Donald X.

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2017, 12:44:12 am »
+3

So, by a literal interpretation, the 1st edition version of Soothsayer should make everyone gain a Curse, then everyone draw a card, whereas the 2nd edition (at least, what's on Dominion Online) should make each player gain and draw before moving on to the next player?  Not that it really matters, just as a theoretical.
Yes.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2017, 09:39:37 am »
+2

This same basic question was relevant way back in the old days when it was just Spy. Based on the ruling here, I'd hope that the ruling back then was that each player reveals the card and the decision is made about keeping it before the next card would be revealed (not that anyone would ever literally play that way in real life).

*Edit* Ha, found it, and it was Wero's own question.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15819.msg616599#msg616599
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 09:45:59 am by GendoIkari »
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Jeebus

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2017, 01:08:40 pm »
0

This same basic question was relevant way back in the old days when it was just Spy.

You're right, but your link doesn't go to "way back in the old days". :) Here it is: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/7476936#7476936
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 10:05:32 am by Jeebus »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2017, 01:33:04 pm »
0

This same basic question was relevant way back in the old days when it was just Spy.

You're right, but you're link doesn't go to "way back in the old days". :) Here it is: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/7476936#7476936

Yeah, I figured the question had been asked well before Wero's thread. Though in my response to that thread, I did mention that his question wasn't only recently relevant.
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Jeebus

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2017, 01:37:09 pm »
0

So, by a literal interpretation, the 1st edition version of Soothsayer should make everyone gain a Curse, then everyone draw a card, whereas the 2nd edition (at least, what's on Dominion Online) should make each player gain and draw before moving on to the next player?  Not that it really matters, just as a theoretical.
Yes.

Actually, I always thought, based on the Spy ruling, that it's the same whether the instructions are in one sentence or several. I mean, each player does all the stuff in one go anyway, which would mean that Soothsayer's timing hasn't changed. There are several cards like this already: Thief, Saboteur, Fortune Teller, Mountebank, Vault, Jester...

When I was looking at this now, I found this Thief ruling, which supports what I'm saying: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/5377824#5377824

Donald X.

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2017, 01:50:59 pm »
+3

So, by a literal interpretation, the 1st edition version of Soothsayer should make everyone gain a Curse, then everyone draw a card, whereas the 2nd edition (at least, what's on Dominion Online) should make each player gain and draw before moving on to the next player?  Not that it really matters, just as a theoretical.
Yes.

Actually, I always thought, based on the Spy ruling, that it's the same whether the instructions are in one sentence or several. I mean, each player does all the stuff in one go anyway, which would mean that Soothsayer's timing hasn't changed. There are several cards like this already: Thief, Saboteur, Fortune Teller, Mountebank, Vault, Jester...

When I was looking at this now, I found this Thief ruling, which supports what I'm saying: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/5377824#5377824
The Soothsayer in question repeats "each player." That starts a new round of "go through the players in turn order and do stuff."
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majiponi

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2017, 08:13:36 pm »
0

So, this changes old interpretation of Followers, right?

From Official FAQ:
Quote
Do the things in the order listed. You draw 2 cards; then you gain an Estate from the Supply, putting it into your discard pile; then each other player gains a Curse from the Supply, putting it into his discard pile; then each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.
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Donald X.

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2017, 03:19:40 am »
+1

So, this changes old interpretation of Followers, right?

From Official FAQ:
Quote
Do the things in the order listed. You draw 2 cards; then you gain an Estate from the Supply, putting it into your discard pile; then each other player gains a Curse from the Supply, putting it into his discard pile; then each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.
If the rulebook says that then yes.
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majiponi

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2017, 09:46:14 am »
0

Quote
Each other player discards the top card of their deck. If it's a Victory card they gain a Curse; otherwise they gain a copy of the discarded card or you do, your choice.
So, this phrase should be interpreted like this;

Each other player "reveals and discards" a card in turn order.
Each player who reveals a Victory gains a Curse in turn order.
You or each player who reveals a non-Victory gain a copy of the revealed card in turn order.

Right?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2017, 01:08:43 pm »
0

Quote
Each other player discards the top card of their deck. If it's a Victory card they gain a Curse; otherwise they gain a copy of the discarded card or you do, your choice.
So, this phrase should be interpreted like this;

Each other player "reveals and discards" a card in turn order.
Each player who reveals a Victory gains a Curse in turn order.
You or each player who reveals a non-Victory gain a copy of the revealed card in turn order.

Right?

No, I read this thread as saying the exact opposite.

1 at a time, an opponent reveals and discards a card, gains a Curse if it was a Victory card, and you or they gain a copy if it wasn't, your choice. Then move to the next opponent and do the same.
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Donald X.

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2017, 01:23:49 pm »
0

Quote
Each other player discards the top card of their deck. If it's a Victory card they gain a Curse; otherwise they gain a copy of the discarded card or you do, your choice.
So, this phrase should be interpreted like this;

Each other player "reveals and discards" a card in turn order.
Each player who reveals a Victory gains a Curse in turn order.
You or each player who reveals a non-Victory gain a copy of the revealed card in turn order.

Right?
No, the period doesn't matter, it's still explaining what "each player" does.
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majiponi

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2017, 07:30:14 pm »
0

Quote
Each other player discards the top card of their deck. If it's a Victory card they gain a Curse; otherwise they gain a copy of the discarded card or you do, your choice.
So, this phrase should be interpreted like this;

Each other player "reveals and discards" a card in turn order.
Each player who reveals a Victory gains a Curse in turn order.
You or each player who reveals a non-Victory gain a copy of the revealed card in turn order.

Right?
No, the period doesn't matter, it's still explaining what "each player" does.
So, cards like Catapult split resolving, and others do not.
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Donald X.

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2017, 07:53:31 pm »
+1

Quote
Each other player discards the top card of their deck. If it's a Victory card they gain a Curse; otherwise they gain a copy of the discarded card or you do, your choice.
So, this phrase should be interpreted like this;

Each other player "reveals and discards" a card in turn order.
Each player who reveals a Victory gains a Curse in turn order.
You or each player who reveals a non-Victory gain a copy of the revealed card in turn order.

Right?
No, the period doesn't matter, it's still explaining what "each player" does.
So, cards like Catapult split resolving, and others do not.
I don't know what you mean, but on Catapult, all the Cursing happens, then all the discarding.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Attack resolving
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2017, 08:31:15 pm »
0

Quote
Each other player discards the top card of their deck. If it's a Victory card they gain a Curse; otherwise they gain a copy of the discarded card or you do, your choice.
So, this phrase should be interpreted like this;

Each other player "reveals and discards" a card in turn order.
Each player who reveals a Victory gains a Curse in turn order.
You or each player who reveals a non-Victory gain a copy of the revealed card in turn order.

Right?
No, the period doesn't matter, it's still explaining what "each player" does.
So, cards like Catapult split resolving, and others do not.

Yes, basically "each other player does thing a and thing b" means that everything after "each other player" happens for each player one at a time. A second "each other player" is a separate set of stuff.
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