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Author Topic: Baths, Posession  (Read 11360 times)

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majiponi

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Baths, Posession
« on: January 19, 2017, 08:51:06 pm »
+5

When I possess my left player, which player takes 2vp from Baths, I or she?
Taking 2vp is after her turn or in her turn?
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ConMan

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2017, 10:15:15 pm »
0

An interesting question. I would suspect that when you go "I end my turn", that it's still your turn, and that triggers the taking of VP. Which would then mean that the tokens go to the possessor. However, I'm nowhere near certain of that.
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Donald X.

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2017, 02:28:42 pm »
+2

When I possess my left player, which player takes 2vp from Baths, I or she?
Taking 2vp is after her turn or in her turn?
Tentatively going with, the regular player gets the VP, not the Possession player. The usual "when x" logic says the turn is over; there's no "end of turn" phase.
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majiponi

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2017, 05:40:54 pm »
+1

So, this happens between turns. Another question is, when the game ends without gaining cards (like Possession), does the last turn-player take 2vp, or miss that?
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Donald X.

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2017, 06:15:56 pm »
+1

So, this happens between turns. Another question is, when the game ends without gaining cards (like Possession), does the last turn-player take 2vp, or miss that?
Tentatively they don't get the VP.
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majiponi

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2017, 07:34:11 pm »
0

I see. Thanks.
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Doom_Shark

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2017, 10:15:17 pm »
0

So, this happens between turns. Another question is, when the game ends without gaining cards (like Possession), does the last turn-player take 2vp, or miss that?
Tentatively they don't get the VP.

So, uh, isn't possession when-would-gain, thus the possessed player has not gained anything that turn, and thus gets the vp?

Edited for clarity

Also Edit: nevermind, I misunderstood what was being asked. But I am still genuinely curious about the above question
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 10:18:03 pm by Doom_Shark »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2017, 09:32:49 pm »
+1

So, this happens between turns. Another question is, when the game ends without gaining cards (like Possession), does the last turn-player take 2vp, or miss that?
Tentatively they don't get the VP.

I can see the reasoning here, but I would be very surprised if that's how most people would expect it to work. Even after your first answer here, it wouldn't have ever occurred to me to question the giving of VP after the game has ended (Granted, I think Possession is the only possible way to end the game without gaining anything).
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Deadlock39

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2017, 10:12:18 pm »
+1

So, this happens between turns. Another question is, when the game ends without gaining cards (like Possession), does the last turn-player take 2vp, or miss that?
Tentatively they don't get the VP.

I can see the reasoning here, but I would be very surprised if that's how most people would expect it to work. Even after your first answer here, it wouldn't have ever occurred to me to question the giving of VP after the game has ended (Granted, I think Possession is the only possible way to end the game without gaining anything).

Salt the Earth

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2017, 10:44:56 pm »
+1

I can see the reasoning here, but I would be very surprised if that's how most people would expect it to work.
I will not be sad if they play it the other way.

Obv. the card should have said "at the start of clean-up," but it doesn't, and I have to give a ruling.
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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2017, 01:29:59 am »
+1

So, this happens between turns. Another question is, when the game ends without gaining cards (like Possession), does the last turn-player take 2vp, or miss that?
Tentatively they don't get the VP.

I can see the reasoning here, but I would be very surprised if that's how most people would expect it to work. Even after your first answer here, it wouldn't have ever occurred to me to question the giving of VP after the game has ended (Granted, I think Possession is the only possible way to end the game without gaining anything).

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GendoIkari

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2017, 11:44:01 am »
0

So, this happens between turns. Another question is, when the game ends without gaining cards (like Possession), does the last turn-player take 2vp, or miss that?
Tentatively they don't get the VP.

I can see the reasoning here, but I would be very surprised if that's how most people would expect it to work. Even after your first answer here, it wouldn't have ever occurred to me to question the giving of VP after the game has ended (Granted, I think Possession is the only possible way to end the game without gaining anything).

Salt the Earth

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My edge case game was way off apparently. I'll redeem myself by mentioning Lurker.
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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2017, 01:30:13 am »
0

So, this happens between turns. Another question is, when the game ends without gaining cards (like Possession), does the last turn-player take 2vp, or miss that?
Tentatively they don't get the VP.

I can see the reasoning here, but I would be very surprised if that's how most people would expect it to work. Even after your first answer here, it wouldn't have ever occurred to me to question the giving of VP after the game has ended (Granted, I think Possession is the only possible way to end the game without gaining anything).

Salt the Earth

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Jeebus

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2017, 12:58:55 pm »
0

When I possess my left player, which player takes 2vp from Baths, I or she?
Taking 2vp is after her turn or in her turn?
Tentatively going with, the regular player gets the VP, not the Possession player. The usual "when x" logic says the turn is over; there's no "end of turn" phase.

"At the start of your turn" abilities happen in your Action phase (not before your turn starts), so going by that I should think that "at the end of your turn" abilities happen in your Clean-up phase. Like GendoIkari said, it also sounds like the intuitive reading of the card.

Save and Possession are the other two cards that have "end of turn" abilities. If "end of turn" happens after the turn, then if I Possess you and make you trash a Province, setting it aside, and that's the last turn of the game, that Province is never put in your discard pile. It was set aside at a point when it was no longer yours, so I don't know if it's yours at the end of the game then? I guess it is actually, since it was said aside by you (being Possessed); compare with Inheritance.

Kirian

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2017, 01:38:33 pm »
0

So, this happens between turns. Another question is, when the game ends without gaining cards (like Possession), does the last turn-player take 2vp, or miss that?
Tentatively they don't get the VP.

I can see the reasoning here, but I would be very surprised if that's how most people would expect it to work. Even after your first answer here, it wouldn't have ever occurred to me to question the giving of VP after the game has ended (Granted, I think Possession is the only possible way to end the game without gaining anything).

Salt the Earth

Cursers, Looters

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How can you end the game without gaining either the curser or the Curses?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2017, 01:39:12 pm »
0

So, this happens between turns. Another question is, when the game ends without gaining cards (like Possession), does the last turn-player take 2vp, or miss that?
Tentatively they don't get the VP.

I can see the reasoning here, but I would be very surprised if that's how most people would expect it to work. Even after your first answer here, it wouldn't have ever occurred to me to question the giving of VP after the game has ended (Granted, I think Possession is the only possible way to end the game without gaining anything).

Salt the Earth

Cursers, Looters

See, I can play this game too!

How can you end the game without gaining either the curser or the Curses?

You end the game by playing a Cursor or a Looter (not counting Death Cart); not by buying one.

*Edit* Unless you were being intentionally over-literal as a joke, responding to my having said "without gaining anything".
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Donald X.

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2017, 01:53:39 pm »
+1

"At the start of your turn" abilities happen in your Action phase (not before your turn starts), so going by that I should think that "at the end of your turn" abilities happen in your Clean-up phase. Like GendoIkari said, it also sounds like the intuitive reading of the card.
"At the start of your turn" is directly after your turn starts. Where are we then? In your Action phase.

"At the end of your turn" - a phrase I should not have used since it generates these rules questions - is directly after your turn ends. Where are we then? Not in your turn - it ended.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2017, 01:57:54 pm »
0

When I possess my left player, which player takes 2vp from Baths, I or she?
Taking 2vp is after her turn or in her turn?
Tentatively going with, the regular player gets the VP, not the Possession player. The usual "when x" logic says the turn is over; there's no "end of turn" phase.

"At the start of your turn" abilities happen in your Action phase (not before your turn starts), so going by that I should think that "at the end of your turn" abilities happen in your Clean-up phase. Like GendoIkari said, it also sounds like the intuitive reading of the card.

Save and Possession are the other two cards that have "end of turn" abilities. If "end of turn" happens after the turn, then if I Possess you and make you trash a Province, setting it aside, and that's the last turn of the game, that Province is never put in your discard pile. It was set aside at a point when it was no longer yours, so I don't know if it's yours at the end of the game then? I guess it is actually, since it was said aside by you (being Possessed); compare with Inheritance.

I don't think there's any rules question for a set-aside card that was set aside by being Trashed on a Possession turn... set-aside cards are always still part of your deck (Haven, Gear, etc). I don't think it even matters who it really was that set it aside; the act of setting it aside doesn't make it leave your deck.

But it is mildly interesting to note this interaction; that cards trashed this, when the game ends on a Possession turn, will end the game set-aside, not end the game in your discard pile.
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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2017, 02:08:19 pm »
0

I don't think there's any rules question for a set-aside card that was set aside by being Trashed on a Possession turn... set-aside cards are always still part of your deck (Haven, Gear, etc). I don't think it even matters who it really was that set it aside; the act of setting it aside doesn't make it leave your deck.

But it is mildly interesting to note this interaction; that cards trashed this, when the game ends on a Possession turn, will end the game set-aside, not end the game in your discard pile.

The point is that it's trashed, so it stops belonging to you. Then it's set aside. The only other ability that sets aside a card that doesn't belong to any player, is Inheritance, I think.

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2017, 02:13:51 pm »
0

"At the start of your turn" abilities happen in your Action phase (not before your turn starts), so going by that I should think that "at the end of your turn" abilities happen in your Clean-up phase. Like GendoIkari said, it also sounds like the intuitive reading of the card.
"At the start of your turn" is directly after your turn starts. Where are we then? In your Action phase.

"At the end of your turn" - a phrase I should not have used since it generates these rules questions - is directly after your turn ends. Where are we then? Not in your turn - it ended.

Ok, so then that creates another timing question. Extra turns from Mission and Outpost are also resolved directly after your turn ends. Can you then choose to do the extra turn first, then put set-aside cards from Possession in your discard pile? Or, do the extra turn first, then put the set-aside card from Save in your hand?

GendoIkari

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2017, 02:36:35 pm »
0

I don't think there's any rules question for a set-aside card that was set aside by being Trashed on a Possession turn... set-aside cards are always still part of your deck (Haven, Gear, etc). I don't think it even matters who it really was that set it aside; the act of setting it aside doesn't make it leave your deck.

But it is mildly interesting to note this interaction; that cards trashed this, when the game ends on a Possession turn, will end the game set-aside, not end the game in your discard pile.

The point is that it's trashed, so it stops belonging to you. Then it's set aside. The only other ability that sets aside a card that doesn't belong to any player, is Inheritance, I think.

Oh yeah, you're right! Interesting, the ways in which cards become yours has been discussed before, but no one ever brought up Possession as an example of a way to get cards without gaining them.
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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2017, 03:34:09 pm »
0

So, this happens between turns. Another question is, when the game ends without gaining cards (like Possession), does the last turn-player take 2vp, or miss that?
Tentatively they don't get the VP.

I can see the reasoning here, but I would be very surprised if that's how most people would expect it to work. Even after your first answer here, it wouldn't have ever occurred to me to question the giving of VP after the game has ended (Granted, I think Possession is the only possible way to end the game without gaining anything).

Salt the Earth

Cursers, Looters

See, I can play this game too!

How can you end the game without gaining either the curser or the Curses?

You end the game by playing a Cursor or a Looter (not counting Death Cart); not by buying one.

*Edit* Unless you were being intentionally over-literal as a joke, responding to my having said "without gaining anything".

Oh, I was misunderstanding.  I thought you meant literally without ever gaining a card in the game!

Which, as noted, could in fact be done with Salt the Earth or Lurker.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2017, 03:36:38 pm »
0

So, this happens between turns. Another question is, when the game ends without gaining cards (like Possession), does the last turn-player take 2vp, or miss that?
Tentatively they don't get the VP.

I can see the reasoning here, but I would be very surprised if that's how most people would expect it to work. Even after your first answer here, it wouldn't have ever occurred to me to question the giving of VP after the game has ended (Granted, I think Possession is the only possible way to end the game without gaining anything).

Salt the Earth

Cursers, Looters

See, I can play this game too!

How can you end the game without gaining either the curser or the Curses?

You end the game by playing a Cursor or a Looter (not counting Death Cart); not by buying one.

*Edit* Unless you were being intentionally over-literal as a joke, responding to my having said "without gaining anything".

Oh, I was misunderstanding.  I thought you meant literally without ever gaining a card in the game!

Which, as noted, could in fact be done with Salt the Earth or Lurker.

Yeah I Just meant not gaining a card during the last turn of the game.
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Watno

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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2017, 03:37:15 pm »
0

Which, as noted, could in fact be done with Salt the Earth or Lurker.
How would you get the Lurker?
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Re: Baths, Posession
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2017, 03:43:27 pm »
+1

Which, as noted, could in fact be done with Salt the Earth or Lurker.
How would you get the Lurker?

Good point.

Edit:  Oh wait, Masquerade of course.
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