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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards  (Read 103546 times)

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schadd

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #275 on: May 20, 2017, 07:56:29 pm »
0

well cycling is less good once your deck quality starts getting worse
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GendoIkari

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #276 on: May 20, 2017, 08:03:58 pm »
0

well cycling is less good once your deck quality starts getting worse

Well of course. But as your deck is more diverse and also has more green; neither auto-discard or auto-keep makes sense. If it is an average hand (so you expect the next 5 to be about the same); then err on the side of keeping; to slow the cycling of new green.
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Titandrake

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #277 on: May 20, 2017, 11:02:14 pm »
0

something many of the top players have figured out by now, that took me a while to catch up on, is that most non-drawing BM is better than most terminal draw BM.  i had always thought it was the other way around, but the simulators have uncovered some pretty shocking results.  did you know that dungeon-BM beats embassy-BM if both open 4/3?  or that navigator-BM beats smithy-BM?  or that swamp hag-BM beats cultist-BM?

Can I see the scripts used for Dungeon vs Embassy and Navigator vs Smithy? Dungeon > Embassy, I can see it, free Silver in BM games is no joke and Dungeon filters so well. Navigator > Smithy feels very weird to me. Back when Isotropic was around, I solitaired Navigator-BM out of curiosity, and found it sometimes had dream draws where you discarding all your junk and hit 4 Provinces in 12-13 turns. But it was really inconsistent compared to Smithy-BM.

The key to Navigator BM is to discard, like, almost all the time. Basically unless it's a guaranteed Gold early or a Province mid, discard. It wins on cycling faster, increasing your average hand's value faster.

I thought that was what I did (when Navigator is your only action it's really easy to tell when hands are going to hit $6 or not.) It's been a while though, maybe I'm remembering wrong.
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Oyvind

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #278 on: June 14, 2017, 04:19:46 am »
+3

I noticed that the 5 cost cards list has been completed in the Qvist ranking matrices. Way to go, Qvist! I know you're a bit burnt out by all this, but I really do hope you will eventually complete the lists for 6+, potions and knights.

These detailed write-ups are great (and I'm a stats dude, so I may love them more than the ordinary Joe), they really are, but if you can manage a modicum of interest, thereby completing the matrices only, I'd prefer that to them not being completed, even if the great write-ups/videos are ignored.

If not, would it be OK for you to give away the stats for these remaining lists to someone else, so that they could finish the lists? Heck, even I can do it, if that's OK with you. PM me if you'd like. Maybe you only have the raw data, maybe everything but the listing is finished. Either way, I don't mind. I'll do it!
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #279 on: June 14, 2017, 04:36:36 am »
0

I currently have other priorities and I'm now at the point where I probably just do a small summary of the remaining lists. I apologize.

Oyvind

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #280 on: June 14, 2017, 05:57:12 am »
+2

I currently have other priorities and I'm now at the point where I probably just do a small summary of the remaining lists. I apologize.

Thanks for your quick reply! That's really all we can ask for. There's no need for you to apologize. You've done this community so many favors, and we all know that priorities may change throughout life. I hope you're well, and I'm really looking forward to the small summaries (simple rankings without ratings will do). Your (user)name will always be linked to ranking of Dominion cards. I hope that someone picks up where you leave off, but I'm sure these lists will always be referred to as Qvist rankings, whoever does them in the future.
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Omastar68

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #281 on: June 14, 2017, 12:41:02 pm »
0

I noticed that the 5 cost cards list has been completed in the Qvist ranking matrices. Way to go, Qvist! I know you're a bit burnt out by all this, but I really do hope you will eventually complete the lists for 6+, potions and knights.

I'm prepared to argue Knights:) Obviously i agree Dame Josephine, but really skeptical about Sir Vander especially. They're Knights...so eiither they're gonna get trashed, or you're winning(pretty much.) Getting that Gold is nice, earlier the better since Vander for their Knght is always a good trade really.

Not impressed w/ Sylvia, Natalie is awesome on lots of boards.
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werothegreat

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #282 on: June 14, 2017, 05:04:45 pm »
0

Someone has updated the 5's for 2016 on the wiki.  Where are they getting that information?
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trivialknot

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #283 on: June 14, 2017, 05:05:49 pm »
0

I'm not sure I should trust the updated rankings on the Wiki, because it was filled out by an anonymous person, and the top 10 rankings are identical to the old rankings.  Could someone verify that they are correct?
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #284 on: June 14, 2017, 05:07:04 pm »
+7

Someone has updated the 5's for 2016 on the wiki.  Where are they getting that information?

Maybe they hacked my computer? But they didn't do it correctly because the order is wrong.

Oyvind

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #285 on: June 14, 2017, 06:14:17 pm »
0

Someone has updated the 5's for 2016 on the wiki.  Where are they getting that information?

Maybe they hacked my computer? But they didn't do it correctly because the order is wrong.

So, we should just remove the top ten again, then? Is there anything holding us back?
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #286 on: June 16, 2017, 01:30:49 pm »
+2

I currently have other priorities and I'm now at the point where I probably just do a small summary of the remaining lists. I apologize.

Yay! Just post the lists like you have been, but skip the video and the stats. Just post 10 cards and their ranking. Let everyone discuss, and then post another 10.
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werothegreat

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #287 on: June 16, 2017, 03:55:01 pm »
0

I currently have other priorities and I'm now at the point where I probably just do a small summary of the remaining lists. I apologize.

Yay! Just post the lists like you have been, but skip the video and the stats. Just post 10 cards and their ranking. Let everyone discuss, and then post another 10.

It's just 10 more to go for the 5's anyway.  And the 6+'s shouldn't take too long.
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Oyvind

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #288 on: June 17, 2017, 03:41:26 am »
0

I currently have other priorities and I'm now at the point where I probably just do a small summary of the remaining lists. I apologize.

Yay! Just post the lists like you have been, but skip the video and the stats. Just post 10 cards and their ranking. Let everyone discuss, and then post another 10.

It's just 10 more to go for the 5's anyway.  And the 6+'s shouldn't take too long.

And after that, the Potions and the Knights are the only lists not updated. That's just 20 more cards.

As I've already written: If you just PM me the finished yet unpublished lists, or even just the raw data, if that's all you have, I'd put them up here in a heartbeat, and I'd also update the http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/List_of_Cards_by_Qvist_Rankings. Case closed! :-)
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #289 on: June 29, 2017, 09:28:55 am »
+21

Okay, I won't finish this normally anymore. Sorry.

Top 10 here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16854.msg671125#msg671125

JKRich

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #290 on: June 29, 2017, 09:43:22 am »
+4

With all the work you've put in to help this community over the years, no apology ever needed from you, and the biggest of thanks comes your way from me, certainly to be +1'ed by many! ;D ;D ;D 8)
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werothegreat

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #291 on: June 29, 2017, 10:57:24 am »
0

So Wharf is the highest it has ever been, and Rebuild has sunk slightly.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #292 on: June 29, 2017, 03:28:08 pm »
0

JD and Upgrade should be above Torture. Rebuild could drop another spot or more.
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schadd

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #293 on: June 29, 2017, 04:57:42 pm »
+1

Just to finish this off:

10. ▲1 Upgrade
9. ▲1 Minion
8. ▼1 Junk Dealer
7. ▲2 Torturer
6. ▼4 Rebuild
5. =0 Governor
4. ▲2 Witch
3. =0 Cultist
2. ▲2 Wharf
1. =0 Mountebank
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #294 on: June 30, 2017, 12:20:21 am »
0

Anyway, I want to thank qvist for putting the rankings up. Also, I feel Wharf and cultist should switch places.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #295 on: June 30, 2017, 01:21:04 am »
+1

eh, i've been finding more and more that cultist is overrated.  empires added at least a couple significant counters to it (city quarter & advance), but it likely never was as good as we had thought.  witch-BM beats cultist-BM, for instance.

also, minion & torturer should absolutely be replaced with butcher & groundskeeper

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #296 on: June 30, 2017, 02:56:58 am »
+1

eh, i've been finding more and more that cultist is overrated.  empires added at least a couple significant counters to it (city quarter & advance)

And Sacrifice, Temple, and Donate.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #297 on: June 30, 2017, 07:46:04 am »
0

I guess I'm surprised to see Upgrade and Junk Dealer so high.
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Jacob marley

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #298 on: June 30, 2017, 03:30:00 pm »
0

eh, i've been finding more and more that cultist is overrated.  empires added at least a couple significant counters to it (city quarter & advance), but it likely never was as good as we had thought.  witch-BM beats cultist-BM, for instance.

also, minion & torturer should absolutely be replaced with butcher & groundskeeper

Cultist without good thinning just isn't reliable enough, it can definitely trade places with wharf.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #299 on: June 30, 2017, 05:11:44 pm »
0

there's more good thinning than ever, though. that's part of the issue.  i mean, empires gave us arguably the 3rd best trasher in the game...

basically, a bunch of boards that used to be cultist-BM have now become "play cultists then clean up and transition to an engine".  in those situations, winning the ruins split 6-4 doesn't matter nearly as much as it does with a purely money deck.  even a 7-3 advantage is easy to screw up if you don't follow up on it correctly.

so cultist still matters on these kinds of boards, but it doesn't singlehandedly dominate the game as often as it used to.  that and rebuild are both victims of the gradual engine creep with each new set released, and both should be lower than they are now.
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