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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards  (Read 103518 times)

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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #175 on: February 28, 2017, 08:28:55 am »
+4

Part 7 Again, sorry for the longer break.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #176 on: February 28, 2017, 09:10:28 am »
0

City went up????

Bustling Village is gonna fall from there soon.

Glad to see Distant Lands getting a lot more recognition.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #177 on: February 28, 2017, 10:40:35 am »
+4

Interesting that Bazaar and Bustling Village are so close to each other.

Bazaar: +1 card, +2 actions, +1$
Bustling village (worst case): +1 cards, +3 actions
Bustling village (best case): +2 cards, +3 actions, +1$

Even in the worst case it's better than Bazaar, so I thought it would be obvious that Bustling Village was better.
Then I remembered it's a split pile.
Now I'm not sure.
How big of a drawback is that split pile? With Settlers being #24/39 of the 0-2 cost cards...

EDIT: *cough*jkofcbazaarisbetter*cough*
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 05:31:30 pm by Hks »
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GendoIkari

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #178 on: February 28, 2017, 10:44:36 am »
0

Interesting that Bazaar and Bustling Village are so close to each other.

Bazaar: +1 card, +2 actions, +1$
Bustling village (worst case): +1 cards, +3 actions
Bustling village (best case): +2 cards, +3 actions, +1$

Even in the worst case it's better than Bazaar, so I thought it would be obvious that Bustling Village was better.
Then I remembered it's a split pile.
Now I'm not sure.
How big of a drawback is that split pile? With Settlers being #24/39 of the 0-2 cost cards...

Pretty sure Bazaar is better than a simple +1 cards, +3 actions. The latter is simply playing 2 Villages; the former is a Village and a Peddler.

I have no idea how being a split card affects card strength, though.

*Edit* Actually, I just realized that Bustling Village without the ability to find a Settlers is a Port, a card.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 10:55:11 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #179 on: February 28, 2017, 11:06:08 am »
0

Uh how the hell is Legionary below Wild Hunt and Crown
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #180 on: February 28, 2017, 11:06:46 am »
+2

People really need to stop pretending Port = +3 actions. That's only true if you draw both of them; what it actually does is different from that.

I think Bazaar is a better card on average than Bustling Village. If you are drawing your deck and don't have filtering, e.g. Dungeon, Settlers can be dead weight. Trashing Copper also diminishes the card some, and it basically requires BustyV to be useful then. The card is better when you can't quite draw everything.

Meanwhile, Bazaar is almost universally useful. I probably get it 99% of the time it's available. The only time you pass it up is if there's a cheaper village, and even then it's not a bad deal to have. By the metrics I rated by, Bazaar is slightly better than BustyV.

Re: Placement of Legionary, I think Crown and Wild Hunt are easily stronger and useful in more decks than Legionary. Wild Hunt is particularly explosive but also a great engine part, and Triumph should be rated similarly (but isn't). Legionary is obviously good, though.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 11:08:32 am by jsh357 »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #181 on: February 28, 2017, 11:08:56 am »
+3

Pretty sure Bazaar is better than a simple +1 cards, +3 actions. The latter is simply playing 2 Villages; the former is a Village and a Peddler.

I know you didn't say anything about cost comparisons, but that sounds an awful lot like cost comparisons so I'll treat it as such.

Well, that isn't necessarily that accurate of a comparison, since Peddler, Bazaar and even Poacher all have very different roles. Peddler is a payload card that you can buy a ton of for free once you have your engine somewhat running, Poacher is a card that helps you skip Silver in the early game, and Bazaar is a $5 component card that helps a little bit with economy and payload. That's why Poacher is accurately priced at $4 — you want to be able to open it, but getting two of them in the opening would make it too trivial to skip Silver entirely. In the meantime, Peddler is accurately priced at $0 (which is what it usually costs when you actually buy it), because you can't open with it anyway, and it would be pretty insufficient for its intended purpose if it cost $4. And Bazaar can't cost $4 because then it would be crazy good at Poacher's role in addition to being pretty good (but not necessarily broken) at its current role.

On the other hand, having a Village and a Peddler is very equivalent to having Bazaar, whereas having 2 Villages is actually better than having one top-of-the-shuffle Bustling Village, because those two Villages will be spread out throughout the entire deck and, thusly, have a higher chance that at least one of them will line up with terminals.

So I guess what I'm saying here is that Port is actually a stronger effect than Bazaar, even if you ignore the fact that it's also cheaper.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #182 on: February 28, 2017, 11:13:37 am »
+2

I think both Bazaar and Bustling Village are overrated here. They are not really worth getting with other (cheaper) splitters around, and that's a significant portion of games (too lazy to calculate).
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #183 on: February 28, 2017, 11:19:32 am »
0

I think both Bazaar and Bustling Village are overrated here. They are not really worth getting with other (cheaper) splitters around, and that's a significant portion of games (too lazy to calculate).

That's true, because so many Smithy variants cost $5 so you generally want to spend the opportunity on that whenever you get it.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #184 on: February 28, 2017, 11:27:54 am »
0

Uh how the hell is Legionary below Wild Hunt and Crown

I was wondering the exact same thing...

Wild Hunt is usually just a Smithy, which can occasionally junk yourself for a few points.  Yeah, it can potentially rack up a lot of VP, but that usually only happens if your opponent is foolish enough to not buy one too.  Otherwise, it's usually just a Smithy. 

And most of the time, Crown is literally Throne Room.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #185 on: February 28, 2017, 11:32:14 am »
+1

Crown is Throne Room, but less likely to be drawn dead. Or drawn undead.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #186 on: February 28, 2017, 11:45:06 am »
+1

Wild Hunt is crazy strong, quite likely the strongest Smithy+ variant, or at least a very close second to Torturer. If you, say, win the split 7-3, that probably means your opponent has to use all of his Wild Hunts for draw, and then you can use 6 of yours for draw and the 7th to gain an Estate and 9 VP tokens for free every turn, which is nuts especially since your opponent can't do the same. Even if your opponent is also able to use his last Wild Hunt for points every turn, with a 6-4 split that still makes a difference of 2 VP per turn, which is quite substantial. What this means is that you absolutely have to not lose the Wild Hunt split as long as there's decent splitting on the board, which makes it a pretty damn strong card.
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trivialknot

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #187 on: February 28, 2017, 12:10:17 pm »
+1

Bustling village suffers a lot from being the bottom of a split pile.

Let's say that Bustling Village is the only splitter, we can ask, is the engine viable?  The engine is viable if it can beat out non-engine strategies.  But if you're playing against a non-engine, then they probably don't want Bustling Villages, and therefore won't help you buy out the Settlers.  You need to buy ALL the settlers yourself, before your engine even has the possibility to kick off.  Furthermore, having all the Settlers usually only helps your Bustling Villages if you aren't drawing your deck every turn.  Finally, being on the bottom of the split pile implies that there are only 5 Bustling Villages, and opponents might even contest you.  You need to have one of your few Bustling Villages in hand in order to kick off your turn.
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faust

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #188 on: February 28, 2017, 12:35:10 pm »
0

Wild Hunt is crazy strong, quite likely the strongest Smithy+ variant, or at least a very close second to Torturer. If you, say, win the split 7-3, that probably means your opponent has to use all of his Wild Hunts for draw, and then you can use 6 of yours for draw and the 7th to gain an Estate and 9 VP tokens for free every turn, which is nuts especially since your opponent can't do the same. Even if your opponent is also able to use his last Wild Hunt for points every turn, with a 6-4 split that still makes a difference of 2 VP per turn, which is quite substantial. What this means is that you absolutely have to not lose the Wild Hunt split as long as there's decent splitting on the board, which makes it a pretty damn strong card.

Edge case: You want to empty the Estates before Wild Hunts kick off.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #189 on: February 28, 2017, 01:01:57 pm »
+1

But if you're playing against a non-engine, then they probably don't want Bustling Villages

and opponents might even contest you.

Okay.
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Chris is me

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #190 on: February 28, 2017, 02:19:33 pm »
0

Agreed with the consensus on Wild Hunt. It is an extremely strong source of VP that combines draw and payload into effectively a single card. It allows the engine to score points that actually matter while continuing to just build and build.

It's not "just a smithy that occasionally junks you", and to say so is to indicate you have never really played with it. It's a super consistent payload that scores several points a turn in a real enginez

Legionary is great when you can make it work consistently... but when you can make it work consistently, there's a strong engine, an engine which is somewhat likely to kick off with just 2 known cards in hand. It's still a very powerful 5, but it's no Wild Hunt.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 02:21:55 pm by Chris is me »
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #191 on: February 28, 2017, 03:45:04 pm »
+1

City and Bustling Village are too high.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #192 on: February 28, 2017, 03:50:36 pm »
0

Wow, I guess I've been underrating Wild Hunt.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #193 on: February 28, 2017, 04:43:14 pm »
+2

Yes, I would rename it to busted village as it is terrible village that should be near festival. as I could most time make better engine with festival than bv.

It has worse version of city problem. It is quite ignorable as one player needs to get 5 settlers, then he will likely lose village split 3-2 as opponent will buy village first.
Then its one of most unreliable villages as with only 3 villages you often stall on not having starting village to play smithy. These 3 actions instead two aren't that useful as if you play smithy you often find village to play second smithy and there is bigger chance to stall on not finding second busted village than with normal village.

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AdrianHealey

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #194 on: February 28, 2017, 04:46:08 pm »
0

Bustling village is great when it works, but it just needs so much set up to make it valueable.

Bustling village and settles should be reverse (bottom/top). That would work.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #195 on: February 28, 2017, 05:32:33 pm »
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But then Settlers would frequently only come into play once most of the Copper has been trashed, rendering them worse than Pearl Diver.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #196 on: February 28, 2017, 07:46:05 pm »
0

But then Settlers would frequently only come into play once most of the Copper has been trashed, rendering them worse than Pearl Diver.

Being able to get a settlers from the discard, makes your bustling village the equivalent of: +3 actions, +2 cards. And if you can actually get a copper from the discard with your settler: +3 cards, +3 cards (of which 1 copper).

That ain't so bad. And if you have trashed all coppers, you need not buy settlers. (But even then it can turn your bustling village into +3 actions, +2 cards, which ain't bad.)
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #197 on: February 28, 2017, 09:07:22 pm »
+11

I am always excited to see Settlers on the board, but only because I mistakenly think it's Encampment roughly 100% of the time.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #198 on: February 28, 2017, 09:56:51 pm »
+1

Really surprised we haven't seen Crown yet. Didn't think a $5 cost Throne Room would make it this high on the list.

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