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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards  (Read 42796 times)

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faust

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #75 on: January 28, 2017, 09:23:20 am »
+1

I think Wine Merchant went up too far. Trade, on the other hand, will probably rise even more in the next list. Outpost is better than where it is right now as well.
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #76 on: January 28, 2017, 11:09:06 am »
+3

I have to imagine Capital will rise in the future. I've seen so much love in the forums for the debt-cost card mechanic and how easy it makes it to buy cards. Well, Capital turns every card into a debt-cost card. And then the obvious combos with cards like Crown, Counterfeit, and Herbalist.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #77 on: January 28, 2017, 06:03:20 pm »
0

Trade is very underrated. Outpost remains underrated.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #78 on: January 28, 2017, 08:02:07 pm »
+1

My big disagreements:
I had...

Band of Misfits at 60

Wine Merchant at 81, maybe could be a little higher.

Vault at 44

Capital at 38.
I think Capital is way underestimated, Groundkeeper is way overestimated, and I don't understand why Vault went down as much as it did. I thought we would've seen Crown by now.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 08:03:23 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #79 on: January 29, 2017, 12:46:17 am »
+1

Plunderbis so much better than that. Really, those points get very powerful very quick, and over just a few turns losing that split gets to be a really big deal.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #80 on: January 29, 2017, 12:22:03 pm »
+1

My big disagreements:
I had...

...

Capital at 38.
I think Capital is way underestimated, Groundkeeper is way overestimated, and I don't understand why Vault went down as much as it did. I thought we would've seen Crown by now.

I think you might be right about Capital. My thinking with it is that the cards you buy on the turn you play Capital can help pay off the debt. It can also be pretty good payload on the final turn. Excess coins from Capital help pay the debt, so that's nice.
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trivialknot

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #81 on: January 29, 2017, 01:06:14 pm »
+3

My big disagreements:
I had...

...

Capital at 38.
I think Capital is way underestimated, Groundkeeper is way overestimated, and I don't understand why Vault went down as much as it did. I thought we would've seen Crown by now.

I think you might be right about Capital. My thinking with it is that the cards you buy on the turn you play Capital can help pay off the debt. It can also be pretty good payload on the final turn. Excess coins from Capital help pay the debt, so that's nice.
I mean, if Capital is only helping you buy cards 1 turn early, arguably another way to get all your cards a turn early is to have not spent a turn buying Capital.
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #82 on: January 29, 2017, 11:20:45 pm »
0

My big disagreements:
I had...

...

Capital at 38.
I think Capital is way underestimated, Groundkeeper is way overestimated, and I don't understand why Vault went down as much as it did. I thought we would've seen Crown by now.

I think you might be right about Capital. My thinking with it is that the cards you buy on the turn you play Capital can help pay off the debt. It can also be pretty good payload on the final turn. Excess coins from Capital help pay the debt, so that's nice.
I mean, if Capital is only helping you buy cards 1 turn early, arguably another way to get all your cards a turn early is to have not spent a turn buying Capital.

True. The thing is you can play Capital more than once per game, and each time you play it it's like gaining an expensive card a turn early.
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Holger

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #83 on: January 30, 2017, 06:05:29 am »
+1

My big disagreements:
I had...

...

Capital at 38.
I think Capital is way underestimated, Groundkeeper is way overestimated, and I don't understand why Vault went down as much as it did. I thought we would've seen Crown by now.

I think you might be right about Capital. My thinking with it is that the cards you buy on the turn you play Capital can help pay off the debt. It can also be pretty good payload on the final turn. Excess coins from Capital help pay the debt, so that's nice.
I mean, if Capital is only helping you buy cards 1 turn early, arguably another way to get all your cards a turn early is to have not spent a turn buying Capital.

True. The thing is you can play Capital more than once per game, and each time you play it it's like gaining an expensive card a turn early.

That doesn't change trivialknot's point: You could buy the second expensive card without Capital at the turn you buy the first expensive card with Capital, and so on. Actually, if you don't draw your deck each turn, buying Capital before lets you draw your gained cards later (by 1 shuffle minus 1 turn). It's similar to Royal Seal in this respect.
So the point of Capital is not to gain $5 cards earlier, but to gain $6+ cards you couldn't gain without it.
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DG

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #84 on: January 30, 2017, 08:54:04 am »
0

True. The thing is you can play Capital more than once per game, and each time you play it it's like gaining an expensive card a turn early.

Unless you are paying off the debt of your previous capital turn.
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #85 on: January 30, 2017, 09:16:14 am »
0

My big disagreements:
I had...

...

Capital at 38.
I think Capital is way underestimated, Groundkeeper is way overestimated, and I don't understand why Vault went down as much as it did. I thought we would've seen Crown by now.

I think you might be right about Capital. My thinking with it is that the cards you buy on the turn you play Capital can help pay off the debt. It can also be pretty good payload on the final turn. Excess coins from Capital help pay the debt, so that's nice.
I mean, if Capital is only helping you buy cards 1 turn early, arguably another way to get all your cards a turn early is to have not spent a turn buying Capital.

True. The thing is you can play Capital more than once per game, and each time you play it it's like gaining an expensive card a turn early.

That doesn't change trivialknot's point: You could buy the second expensive card without Capital at the turn you buy the first expensive card with Capital, and so on. Actually, if you don't draw your deck each turn, buying Capital before lets you draw your gained cards later (by 1 shuffle minus 1 turn). It's similar to Royal Seal in this respect.
So the point of Capital is not to gain $5 cards earlier, but to gain $6+ cards you couldn't gain without it.

This makes sense. Now, when playing Capital you can gain two expensive cards in on turn, but one of them could have been gained when you gained Capital. After that though, you have the two expensive cards plus Capital, plus the debt. There can still be time for Capital to do good work though. Without buying Capital, you would have just have the two expensive cards.

Probably then, Capital is at its best when there is flexibility to eaither buy really good expensive card-shaped things or multiple smaller components if needed.
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werothegreat

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #86 on: January 30, 2017, 04:14:30 pm »
0

Capital also has a number of ways to ignore the , or at least produce more than .
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aku_chi

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #87 on: January 30, 2017, 04:31:22 pm »
+7

Capital also has a number of ways to ignore the , or at least produce more than .

Yes.  That number is 7:

Counterfeit
Crown
Fortune
Herbalist
Mandarin (situational)
Mint (even more situational)
Bonfire (extremely situational)

In a kingdom with Capital, there is a ~78% likelihood that none of those cards are present (and an ~87% chance that none of the top 4 synergies are present).  So, it is important to understand how good Capital is in kingdoms where none of those cards are present.  And I don't have a good feel for that.
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Shvegait

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #88 on: January 30, 2017, 07:39:50 pm »
+3

If one of the good combo cards is in the kingdom, Capital is going to be important. Now, assuming those cards aren't in the kingdom...

Capital is really good in Tournament games and Colony games. It could be essential on Dominate boards if you'd have trouble hitting $14 otherwise. Also it's crazy with overpay, for a big Masterpiece or possibly Doctor. Basically, whenever spikiness in your money distribution is what you want, Capital is good. If you're paying off at least 3 of the debt every time you play Capital, it's not doing much for you (with a few exceptions, like Storyteller maybe). In that case it's more like a Contraband with a different kind of penalty (-$3 in the future and/or now). You really want to go all in on the debt to get the most out of it. The price points of the key cards on the board will determine whether Capital is great or mediocre.

Also, any time the debt is not much of a drawback, Capital is helped. If on your next turn, you hit $7 and have 2 debt, and were going to buy a $5 anyway, the debt didn't hurt you. Whether you can count on that situation happening is another question. Or if next turn you're going to trash and pass with $2, you can just pay off debt. Works great with Mission, if you have at least some other reason for doing a Mission, since those coins were going to go to waste otherwise. In any case, the strength of Capital is roughly the same as the strength of the concept of "Debt" in the particular kingdom. I think it's underrated somewhat, because Debt is pretty strong.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #89 on: January 31, 2017, 07:16:00 am »
0

Even a treasure that does nothing but give +buy is situationally very useful.

Capital is good if you really know what you want (ie you know when to buy the $11 Herbalist).
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McGarnacle

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #90 on: January 31, 2017, 07:23:04 am »
+3

Even a treasure that does nothing but give +buy is situationally very useful.

Capital is good if you really know what you want (ie you know when to buy the $11 Herbalist).

Except you shouldn't need an $11 Herbalist, because Capital gives +buy.
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Chris is me

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #91 on: January 31, 2017, 08:19:34 am »
+1

Even a treasure that does nothing but give +buy is situationally very useful.

Capital is good if you really know what you want (ie you know when to buy the $11 Herbalist).

Except you shouldn't need an $11 Herbalist, because Capital gives +buy.

I think what he's saying is if you'd do anything for +Buy, Capital is at least a nonterminal +But that gives you a free Duchy on the last turn of the game.

Obviously if Herbalist is on the board you ideally want one of each.
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #92 on: January 31, 2017, 01:11:25 pm »
0

In any case, the strength of Capital is roughly the same as the strength of the concept of "Debt" in the particular kingdom. I think it's underrated somewhat, because Debt is pretty strong.

This was my point in my original "I think Capital's rank will rise" post. With Capital, every card is a debt card.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #93 on: February 04, 2017, 08:55:49 am »
+2

Capital also has a number of ways to ignore the , or at least produce more than .

Yes.  That number is 7:

Counterfeit
Crown
Fortune
Herbalist
Mandarin (situational)
Mint (even more situational)
Bonfire (extremely situational)

In a kingdom with Capital, there is a ~78% likelihood that none of those cards are present (and an ~87% chance that none of the top 4 synergies are present).  So, it is important to understand how good Capital is in kingdoms where none of those cards are present.  And I don't have a good feel for that.

Mandarin+Capital sounds actually pretty ligit. If you manage to draw multiple Capitals, then you can buy one Mandarin to ensure you draw all those Capital again next turn, without getting Debt. If you manage to do that for a hand full of Capitals...
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #94 on: February 04, 2017, 11:33:40 am »
+2

Capital also has a number of ways to ignore the , or at least produce more than .

Yes.  That number is 7:

Counterfeit
Crown
Fortune
Herbalist
Mandarin (situational)
Mint (even more situational)
Bonfire (extremely situational)

In a kingdom with Capital, there is a ~78% likelihood that none of those cards are present (and an ~87% chance that none of the top 4 synergies are present).  So, it is important to understand how good Capital is in kingdoms where none of those cards are present.  And I don't have a good feel for that.

Mandarin+Capital sounds actually pretty ligit. If you manage to draw multiple Capitals, then you can buy one Mandarin to ensure you draw all those Capital again next turn, without getting Debt. If you manage to do that for a hand full of Capitals...

Yeah with 2 Capitals plus a copper in hand, you can buy 1 Provinces + Mandarin each turn. With 3 Capitals, you can buy 1 Colony + Mandarin each turn. 4 Capitals lets you buy 2 Provinces + Mandarin each turn, and 3 Provinces on the last turn.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #95 on: February 05, 2017, 12:23:07 pm »
+2

Sorry for the break. Part 5

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #96 on: February 05, 2017, 12:49:04 pm »
+2

i've been thinking "this card is way better than that" for pretty much all of them since 73
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #97 on: February 05, 2017, 01:06:10 pm »
0

So we still have yet to see Bustling Village, Archive, Crown, Legionary, Wild Hunt, and Triumph.  I'm betting Legionary and Triumph will be the top two of those, with one of them potentially in the top 10 overall.

Also, Relic has gone up by at least 11, and Storyteller has gone up by at least 3, while Distant Lands has at least not dropped at all.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 01:07:23 pm by werothegreat »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #98 on: February 05, 2017, 01:31:29 pm »
+3

Duke is overrated. Artificer and Charm are both better than Treasure Trove.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #99 on: February 05, 2017, 02:06:32 pm »
+1

Duke is overrated. Artificer and Charm are both better than Treasure Trove.

Especially Artificer.
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