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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards  (Read 13416 times)

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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2017, 06:49:10 am »
+1

Treasury is not that much better than Peddler, effect-wise. In cases where you draw your deck, the ability is useless. In cases where you don't, you generally start greening fairly early and the ability doesn't work. Sometimes you just want a $5 Peddler, but the special ability is rarely all that useful.

Alchemist/Laboratory is the biggest difference, because Labs are REALLY good if you can topdeck them.

The thing is, in cases where you don't draw your deck, you don't usually want Walled Village or Alchemist, but you definitely want Treasury as long as the flow of the game allows it. You can hit $5 pretty early in the game, and you'll have lots of time to benefit from the ability before you start to green, and you can use the ability during greening to spike for Provinces. Like, a Treasury opening is actually pretty decent, but a Baker opening is awful.

Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2017, 09:28:25 am »
0

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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2017, 09:36:58 am »
+2

I think Ball is underrated now. Getting two $4s for $5, even with the - token, is significantly better than Stonemason which is also a very strong card. Like, it's super better than Giant for sure.

werothegreat

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2017, 10:03:06 am »
+1

Wow. I disagree with everything on part 3. Most of these should be higher, except Windfall, which is about right.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2017, 10:22:40 am »
0

Wow. I disagree with everything on part 3. Most of these should be higher, except Windfall, which is about right.

Me2
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2017, 10:34:19 am »
0

I reacted similarly, then I compared with my own list and was surprised to see that I ranked them about the same. There are just so many good cards in this list, that mediocre cards appear at the bottom of this list.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2017, 11:11:18 am »
+1

I have Market and Library a lot higher, like 20-30 places (even if you don't count Empires).

I do feel that old Base cards are getting more and more underrated because people don't find them interesting anymore. It happened to Workshop as well. Those cards are actually still pretty strong, guys!

(I can already predict I'm going to say the same thing about Laboratory and Festival)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 11:12:20 am by Aleimon Thimble »
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AdrianHealey

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2017, 11:31:01 am »
+1

Market is a +Buy peddler. That's not that strong, is it?
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2017, 11:43:47 am »
+3

Market is a +Buy peddler. That's not that strong, is it?

It's pretty strong. +Buy is useful in a lot of cases, and it's important in almost every engine. When you're building an engine, you'd often get a Market over a lot of other +Buy cards, since it doesn't take up any space in your deck and gives some virtual money to boot. If Peddler is a strong $4 card, I'd say Market is a pretty strong $5 card - not top-tier, but somewhere in the middle of the (rather strong) $5 pack.
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McGarnacle

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2017, 11:45:25 am »
+1

Market is a +Buy peddler. That's not that strong, is it?

It's pretty strong. +Buy is useful in a lot of cases, and it's important in almost every engine. When you're building an engine, you'd often get a Market over a lot of other +Buy cards, since it doesn't take up any space in your deck and gives some virtual money to boot. If Peddler is a strong $4 card, I'd say Market is a pretty strong $5 card - not top-tier, but somewhere in the middle of the (rather strong) $5 pack.

I guess the main thing is Peddler variants are good to spam, but you don't need a bunch of +buys.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #60 on: January 24, 2017, 11:52:10 am »
0

Market is a +Buy peddler. That's not that strong, is it?

It's pretty strong. +Buy is useful in a lot of cases, and it's important in almost every engine. When you're building an engine, you'd often get a Market over a lot of other +Buy cards, since it doesn't take up any space in your deck and gives some virtual money to boot. If Peddler is a strong $4 card, I'd say Market is a pretty strong $5 card - not top-tier, but somewhere in the middle of the (rather strong) $5 pack.

I guess the main thing is Peddler variants are good to spam, but you don't need a bunch of +buys.

Most of the time you don't, true. But you can still spam Markets as if they were $5 Peddlers. At the very least, the +Buys make Market a lot stronger than Treasury and Emporium, even if you don't need all of them.
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trivialknot

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2017, 11:53:16 am »
0

"Windfall is way better than Treasure Map" (paraphrased from video)

I think Windfall really suffers from this comparison.  Windfall is only useful when you draw your deck.  Treasure map is useful when you draw your deck OR when you sift through your deck OR when you can rearrange your deck OR when you draw a significant fraction of your deck OR when you can get extra copies OR when you're just willing to chance it.  I think the additional flexibility of Treasure Map is more valuable than the (somewhat) cheaper cost of Windfall.  And Treasure Map is a bottom card, so Windfall should be too.

--

I think Emporium is underrated.  The Emporium pile nearly always runs out in my play group.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2017, 12:17:21 pm »
+3

The problem is that you don't want to spam $5 Peddlers. $5 is a lot of money to be spent on something that only gives you $1. You only want as many Markets as you want extra buys.

markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2017, 01:16:01 pm »
+1

The problem is that you don't want to spam $5 Peddlers. $5 is a lot of money to be spent on something that only gives you $1. You only want as many Markets as you want extra buys.

Yes, but that number of extra buys is often one or two, so getting a couple of Markets is quite common. It's no Grand Market though. With GM, every GM played in a turn can be converted into an Estate (or some other cheap 2-cost card) for 3-pile purposes.

Cartographer, nooooo! I suppose it does make sense though. It's not that Cartographer is bad, but the 5-cost cards tend to be higher impact on their own as opposed to being a support card. I still think Cartographer is a bit underrated here. Ball is probably underrated too.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2017, 02:53:14 pm »
+1

Talk about a massive drop. 17 places is pretty steep. Adventures cards dropping a lot doesn't surprise me, but Cartographer is from Hinterlands. With that said, the card is decent, but I think is actually ranked correctly now.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2017, 06:04:06 pm »
+1

Maybe it's Sentry's fault? Cartographer does look rather weak in comparison, as it doesn't trash.

I also think it's ranked correctly now.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2017, 07:46:41 pm »
+2

Market is a +Buy peddler. That's not that strong, is it?

It's pretty strong. +Buy is useful in a lot of cases, and it's important in almost every engine. When you're building an engine, you'd often get a Market over a lot of other +Buy cards, since it doesn't take up any space in your deck and gives some virtual money to boot. If Peddler is a strong $4 card, I'd say Market is a pretty strong $5 card - not top-tier, but somewhere in the middle of the (rather strong) $5 pack.

So I actually had Market on exactly the rank it got on this list, but there's one thing I don't understand. What makes Market better on average than Seaway? If there is a cantrip that costs $4 or less that you want, which happens often, wouldn't you rather buy a Seaway? In the cases where you want a lot of +Buy, you can get it cheaper this way, since you only have to buy Seaway once, then you can buy (or gain) the cheaper card at its usual price. Of course you may then not get the +$1, but you get whatever the card provides, maybe something you need more, like +Actions or draw. Even if there's not a good target cantrip, if there's any $4 card you want to play every turn (and don't have all the copies of it you want yet), buying Seaway is basically a $1 Market Square that doesn't even cost a Buy (but competes with other $5s). Maybe I way overrated it, I had it around rank 40, but is it really that bad? And its combo with Highway is too good! (That says more about Highway, true, but still.)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 07:52:17 pm by Shvegait »
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2017, 07:50:18 pm »
+1

I agree. Seaway is better than Market on average
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 08:58:40 pm by Beyond Awesome »
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #68 on: January 24, 2017, 08:11:46 pm »
0

Market is a +Buy peddler. That's not that strong, is it?

It's pretty strong. +Buy is useful in a lot of cases, and it's important in almost every engine. When you're building an engine, you'd often get a Market over a lot of other +Buy cards, since it doesn't take up any space in your deck and gives some virtual money to boot. If Peddler is a strong $4 card, I'd say Market is a pretty strong $5 card - not top-tier, but somewhere in the middle of the (rather strong) $5 pack.

So I actually had Market on exactly the rank it got on this list, but there's one thing I don't understand. What makes Market better on average than Seaway? If there is a cantrip that costs $4 or less that you want, which happens often, wouldn't you rather buy a Seaway? In the cases where you want a lot of +Buy, you can get it cheaper this way, since you only have to buy Seaway once, then you can buy (or gain) the cheaper card at its usual price. Of course you may then not get the +$1, but you get whatever the card provides, maybe something you need more, like +Actions or draw. Even if there's not a good target cantrip, if there's any $4 card you want to play every turn (and don't have all the copies of it you want yet), buying Seaway is basically a $1 Market Square that doesn't even cost a Buy (but competes with other $5s). Maybe I way overrated it, I had it around rank 40, but is it really that bad? And its combo with Highway is too good! (That says more about Highway, true, but still.)

To be fair to Market, remove the +Buy on it and you got peddler, which is a strong 4-cost card (see Poacher). How many cantrip 4-cost cards are better than peddler and will show up with Seaway is the question.

I think I still ranked Seaway higher though.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 08:12:55 pm by markusin »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #69 on: January 24, 2017, 09:39:52 pm »
0

I had several of these cards higher, but IMO the most horribly underrated cards in part 3 are Ball and Library.
I had Ball at #46 and Library at #33 (maybe I'm biased, but I really don't think it's 37 places worth of bias).

I'm surprised we haven't seen Wine Merchant or Groundskeeper yet.

The rankings for the first two parts were very close to what I had, but here is where the major deviations start.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 09:43:30 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #70 on: January 25, 2017, 12:23:25 am »
0

To be fair to Market, remove the +Buy on it and you got peddler, which is a strong 4-cost card (see Poacher). How many cantrip 4-cost cards are better than peddler and will show up with Seaway is the question.

The thing is, most of the cantrip 4-costs are something that you already have in your deck when you're buying Seaway, so you're getting a bunch of extra buys with it.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2017, 01:18:06 am »
0

I suppose the +buy in Market makes it easier to buy multiple Markets (ie makes it more spammable even though the +buy isn't useful when spammed).
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #72 on: January 25, 2017, 01:25:58 am »
0

I suppose the +buy in Market makes it easier to buy multiple Markets (ie makes it more spammable even though the +buy isn't useful when spammed).

Yeah, but if you already have a bunch of buys, you don't want to spend $5 on a Peddler.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #73 on: January 25, 2017, 03:05:31 am »
+2

"Windfall is way better than Treasure Map" (paraphrased from video)

I think Windfall really suffers from this comparison.  Windfall is only useful when you draw your deck.  Treasure map is useful when you draw your deck OR when you sift through your deck OR when you can rearrange your deck OR when you draw a significant fraction of your deck OR when you can get extra copies OR when you're just willing to chance it.  I think the additional flexibility of Treasure Map is more valuable than the (somewhat) cheaper cost of Windfall.  And Treasure Map is a bottom card, so Windfall should be too.

--

I think Emporium is underrated.  The Emporium pile nearly always runs out in my play group.

Thing about Events is their low opportunity cost. Two Treasure Maps in your deck waiting to be connected are stinkers. An Event never used is neutral (if not used by any player). An Action drawn dead is a burden.
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #74 on: January 28, 2017, 08:47:14 am »
+2

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