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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards  (Read 22430 times)

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scotty2hotty

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #300 on: July 04, 2017, 05:13:49 pm »
+1

Okay, I won't finish this normally anymore. Sorry.

Top 10 here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16854.msg671125#msg671125

No need to apologize thanks for all the work you've put into these rankings!
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Omastar68

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #301 on: September 05, 2017, 12:43:31 pm »
0

I was thinking about how bad Villa can be w/ little or no draw when there's another village, and the same think applied to Festival in a game I had where Courtyard(and Madman...sorta) was the only draw(don't remember details.) I got Festival over Mining Village twice, once was in the opening, pretty weak 5s.

Anyways, since Festival is just 1 coin more than Villa and doesn't have that killer effect, shouldn't it be lower? It can pretty easily be a stop card of sorts. Took me a while to think of this, earlier I actually felt like it was low.
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LastFootnote

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #302 on: September 05, 2017, 01:53:24 pm »
+1

I was thinking about how bad Villa can be w/ little or no draw when there's another village, and the same think applied to Festival in a game I had where Courtyard(and Madman...sorta) was the only draw(don't remember details.) I got Festival over Mining Village twice, once was in the opening, pretty weak 5s.

Anyways, since Festival is just 1 coin more than Villa and doesn't have that killer effect, shouldn't it be lower? It can pretty easily be a stop card of sorts. Took me a while to think of this, earlier I actually felt like it was low.

"Just $1 more" is huge, though.

It's true that Festival isn't a super awesome, must-buy $5 card. But it's too strong to cost $4.
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Omastar68

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #303 on: September 05, 2017, 02:03:06 pm »
0

I was thinking about how bad Villa can be w/ little or no draw when there's another village, and the same think applied to Festival in a game I had where Courtyard(and Madman...sorta) was the only draw(don't remember details.) I got Festival over Mining Village twice, once was in the opening, pretty weak 5s.

Anyways, since Festival is just 1 coin more than Villa and doesn't have that killer effect, shouldn't it be lower? It can pretty easily be a stop card of sorts. Took me a while to think of this, earlier I actually felt like it was low.

"Just $1 more" is huge, though.

It's true that Festival isn't a super awesome, must-buy $5 card. But it's too strong to cost $4.

I wasn't wondering about that, but I think I agree, 4 would make it very strong for the price.
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GendoIkari

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #304 on: September 05, 2017, 02:10:52 pm »
+2

"Just $1 more" is huge, though.


Yeah. My favorite example of this is Lighthouse vs Merchant Ship. In order to go from giving now and next turn to giving now and next turn, you need to lose the +1 action, lose the attack protection, and increase your price from to .
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werothegreat

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #305 on: September 05, 2017, 03:49:53 pm »
+1

"Just $1 more" is huge, though.


Yeah. My favorite example of this is Lighthouse vs Merchant Ship. In order to go from giving now and next turn to giving now and next turn, you need to lose the +1 action, lose the attack protection, and increase your price from to .

It's also interesting how terminality changes the value of certain mechanics.  There's a very clear progression (minus some abilities that don't necessarily even always see use) from Ruined Library to Moat to Smithy to Hunting Grounds to (sort of) Royal Blacksmith.  Adding an extra +1 card to a terminal Action generally means an increase in cost of .  But then you look at Pearl Diver, the closest thing we'll ever get to a vanilla cantrip - removing a minor ability and adding +1 Card increases its cost by .  Drawing an extra card non-terminally is worth a lot more than drawing an extra card terminally.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #306 on: September 05, 2017, 04:53:17 pm »
0

Drawing an extra card non-terminally is worth a lot more than drawing an extra card terminally.

Which is why Hunting Grounds is such an amazing engine card.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #307 on: September 05, 2017, 04:59:04 pm »
0

"Just $1 more" is huge, though.


Yeah. My favorite example of this is Lighthouse vs Merchant Ship. In order to go from giving now and next turn to giving now and next turn, you need to lose the +1 action, lose the attack protection, and increase your price from to .

Merchant Ship is a weak card though.
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werothegreat

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #308 on: September 05, 2017, 05:06:55 pm »
0

So a hypothetical "Super-Lab" (+3 Cards, +1 Action) would probably have to cost .
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Donald X.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #309 on: September 05, 2017, 05:08:08 pm »
+4

So a hypothetical "Super-Lab" (+3 Cards, +1 Action) would probably have to cost .
I think that would still have to come with a terminal $2 you didn't really want.
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werothegreat

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #310 on: September 05, 2017, 06:46:33 pm »
+2

So a hypothetical "Super-Lab" (+3 Cards, +1 Action) would probably have to cost .
I think that would still have to come with a terminal $2 you didn't really want.

When you gain this, gain a Duchess Super-Scientist.
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Donald X.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #311 on: September 05, 2017, 06:56:19 pm »
+9

So a hypothetical "Super-Lab" (+3 Cards, +1 Action) would probably have to cost .
I think that would still have to come with a terminal $2 you didn't really want.

When you gain this, gain a Duchess Super-Scientist.
It's Stonemason dude. I have explained the joke etc.
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Omastar68

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #312 on: September 06, 2017, 11:47:32 am »
0

So a hypothetical "Super-Lab" (+3 Cards, +1 Action) would probably have to cost .

"Super Lab" is often just Menagerie(pretty common to have a good way to guarantee the full effect,) and that's 3. So 7 might not be a card that's +3 cards and 1 action. Testing cards for different prices must have been very interesting.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #313 on: September 06, 2017, 07:46:26 pm »
+1

So a hypothetical "Super-Lab" (+3 Cards, +1 Action) would probably have to cost .

"Super Lab" is often just Menagerie(pretty common to have a good way to guarantee the full effect,) and that's 3. So 7 might not be a card that's +3 cards and 1 action. Testing cards for different prices must have been very interesting.
Menagerie is cheap because it gets worse as your hand gets bigger. If I'm doing the math right, Super Lab would actually be 8 or 9 (the linear progression would be 2->5->8 or 1->5->9, depending on how much you think a vanilla cantrip would cost.)
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Donald X.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #314 on: September 06, 2017, 08:20:44 pm »
+3

The math cannot be done. Many people have tried to come up with formulas for costs for sets of +'s over the years, and it simply doesn't work.

Super Lab was in Empires at the beginning (eventually turning into City Quarter). The initial guess I had for costing it was 10D. I was off.
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werothegreat

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #315 on: September 06, 2017, 08:38:51 pm »
0

So a hypothetical "Super-Lab" (+3 Cards, +1 Action) would probably have to cost .

"Super Lab" is often just Menagerie(pretty common to have a good way to guarantee the full effect,) and that's 3. So 7 might not be a card that's +3 cards and 1 action. Testing cards for different prices must have been very interesting.
Menagerie is cheap because it gets worse as your hand gets bigger. If I'm doing the math right, Super Lab would actually be 8 or 9 (the linear progression would be 2->5->8 or 1->5->9, depending on how much you think a vanilla cantrip would cost.)

Yeah, I just can't add, apparently.
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LastFootnote

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #316 on: September 06, 2017, 08:54:43 pm »
0

The math cannot be done. Many people have tried to come up with formulas for costs for sets of +'s over the years, and it simply doesn't work.

Super Lab was in Empires at the beginning (eventually turning into City Quarter). The initial guess I had for costing it was 10D. I was off.

To be fair, I think that was during the days where Debt cards cost $0 and gave you the debt on-gain. I think the issue was the combination of super-Lab and, like, remodels and workshops and things.

It was also clearly before the realization of, things that just cost debt shouldn't be things you want early.
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AJD

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #317 on: September 07, 2017, 03:24:21 pm »
+1

It was also clearly before the realization of, things that just cost debt shouldn't be things you want early.

...Not counting Engineer, I guess?

And actually Overlord's not bad as an opener sometimes too.
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LastFootnote

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #318 on: September 07, 2017, 03:26:40 pm »
+1

It was also clearly before the realization of, things that just cost debt shouldn't be things you want early.

...Not counting Engineer, I guess?

And actually Overlord's not bad as an opener sometimes too.

Engineer has a Debt cost just so it can't gain itself. Otherwise you could artificially run down the pile; trash your Engineer to gain another one.

Overlord just somehow worked out costing 8 debt! *shrug*
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $5 Cards
« Reply #319 on: September 07, 2017, 07:43:01 pm »
+1

It was also clearly before the realization of, things that just cost debt shouldn't be things you want early.

...Not counting Engineer, I guess?

And actually Overlord's not bad as an opener sometimes too.

e.g. 5/2 with no good 2-cost card.
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