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SettingFraming

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Dominion: Highlands
« on: January 10, 2017, 12:54:22 am »
+4

I've been playing Dominion for a while, but haven't really spent any time on this part of the forum. Anyways, I made a small expansion (12 cards). They're mountain themed. I'll let you guys figure out the play theme (if there is one).


Anthropologist is a card that can give you quite a bit of cantrip economy, but you have to keep junk around in order to activate it. It also gives you the option to take on more junk in order to keep it activated.


This card is really great, of course, but has the disadvantage that it's difficult to use it to kick off a turn, since you'll often have to discard one.


Note: This is a pile of 20. It's a really nice card for early game economy that doesn't slow your cycling, but over-buy it (or just have the game go enough turns), and the pile will run out, and you'll run out of chickens!


This is a (not too) friendly swindler. It's quite bad when it hits your coppers, but can be nice on estates. This can definitely be quite a strong card, but it's a stop card and it can be dangerous as well.


This is a thinner that can also be a junker. Not as oppressive as Ambassador, as it's really good on estates but underwhelming (though useful) on other cards.


This is an Outpost variant that basically plays a schemed (weaker, because it doesn't seek through the deck) Golem at the start of your Outpost turn. It does not stack, and costs 6 just because extra turns are super good, and this is a village so flipping over just a single smithy, for example is not bad. Arguably worse than Outpost at $6, but I think that's fine.


This gives a lot of cards and actions, but with the significant drawback of decreasing hand-size by 2 (including the card play). The bottom half makes it so it can score you two points as well, but with the draw-back of taking on a bit of extra junk.


This can be a whole lot of points, especially in a slog. Which is why it costs 5 and has the harsh on-buy drawback.


Underwhelming as a trasher, but the defense reaction bit is quite excellent. Probably a weak card, but hey, they can't all be strong and I think the interesting nature of the bottom half makes it okay. Could probably cost $2.


A simple village variant. Advantage over vanilla village is that you get to see an extra card (and potentially unlock things that need top-deck information).


This is just a smithy variant with a little twist.


It's a silver that costs $2! It also can change the atmosphere of the game by handing out a lot of coppers. Can even be used by a player who has more deck control in order to bury opponents.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 01:48:56 am by SettingFraming »
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weety4

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2017, 01:29:26 am »
+2

Anthropologist might be nice in the beginning or in games without trashing.
Pioneer is too swingy for my taste. When you get to play two Labs for 5$ your opponent doesn't and you might already run ahead.
Chickens is my favourite card here and a great addition to the 'animals that drain their piles' series!
Crazed Explorer is quite creative and doesn't need the Reaction type. It seems good early on but can be a serious risk when it might later hit Provinces, Gold with no other 6s around or a 5 in a Kingdom with no other good/flexible 5s.
Sentry Tower is an interesting Outpost variant.
I like Capitol, for Silver alone it yields 50% more VPs than Feodum and is overall more flexible. I would think a bit about how you wanna nerf it though, on-gain Curse seems a bit dubious on a Victory card to me.
Pasture is simple and good and probably makes you think twice about buying a junker. Which isn't bad in my book given how dominant junking usually is.
Stream is far too cheap (Silver with a bonus is usually priced at
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SettingFraming

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2017, 01:34:11 am »
0

Anthropologist might be nice in the beginning or in games without trashing.
Pioneer is strictly better than Lab (even better than two Labs so probably this has to cost 7 or 8 or even more).
Chickens is my favourite card here and a great addition to the 'animals that drain their piles' series!
Crazed Explorer is quite creative and doesn't need the Reaction type. It seems good early on but can be a serious risk when it might later hit Provinces, Gold with no other 6s around or a 5 in a Kingdom with no other good/flexible 5s.
Sentry Tower is an interesting Outpost variant.
I like Capitol, for Silver alone it yields 50% more VPs than Feodum and is overall more flexible. I would think a bit about how you wanna nerf it though, on-gain Curse seems a bit dubious on a Victory card to me.
Pasture is simple and good and probably makes you think twice about buying a junker. Which isn't bad in my book given how dominant junking usually is.
Stream is far too cheap (Silver with a bonus is usually priced at 5$) and doesn't require the Duration type.

Thanks for the notes! The type errors were me just not fixing them as I was modifying the cards.

Stream isn't really that much of a bonus since all players gain the copper, including yourself. It could reasonably cost 3 or 4 though, although 5 would definitely be too high.

Pioneer is I don't think strictly better than lab since the attack part only hurts the card itself, but yes it's definitely usually better than lab so it should probably cost more. Maybe $6, maybe $7, though $7 may be too steep.

I've been thinking about the drawback to Capitol, and I think a more fitting solution might be to gain in to the top of your deck so that it kind of slows your next turn, which I think is a more interesting victory card drawback and doesn't go null if the curses are empty.

I'll make some of those changes next time I'm around my computer. Thanks again!

Edit: Changes made
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 01:46:17 am by SettingFraming »
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weety4

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2017, 01:43:47 am »
+1

Sorry, I misread Stream (of course the card is totally fine as it is) and realized only afterwards that Pioneer works differently. Such a card is totally fine but personally I think this is too swingy. When you get to play your Pioneer your opponents don't and you might already run ahead.
On-gain topdecking is a straightfoward nerf for a Victory card. Another option is to play around with the ratio and try 1/5.
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madeofghosts

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2017, 05:28:56 am »
+1

Crazed Explorer's self-cursing aspect would make it very weak, I think - unless you had another way to get rid of your coppers, in which case you probably wouldn't need CE.

I like Pioneer in principle but I think it would favour the first player (or the first player to get one) too much. When you play it, quite probably no one else will be able to play one until it comes back round to your turn, which means you won't have needed to discard any that might be in your new hand... it snowballs.

And what would Capitol do with Bank, Fool's Gold, Philosopher's Stone, etc? I like the pun in the title though.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 08:09:25 am by madeofghosts »
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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2017, 10:13:26 am »
+3

I like the cards, they all feel different although Anthropologist and especially Pioneer seem too strong.
With Anthropologist you might want to switch the two sentences because you only need a Copper in hand basically to activate it and then it's just so strong.

Regarding Pasture: Action - Reaction cards are blue, not white/blue.
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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2017, 10:29:31 am »
+3

I think, overall, these are all a bit too wordy.  Also, Estate and Copper (and other card names) should be capitalized.

I think Anthropologist is a bit too strong.
I don't think I'd ever buy Crazed Explorer, you'd be Cursing yourself most of the time.
Sentry Tower is not good enough.  It can whiff too easily.  Also, it should be a Duration.
Capitol becomes nonsensical when you have any sort of variable-worth Treasure, like Bank.
Pasture is horribly political, and in a 2-player game makes it not worth it to play any sort of junking Attack.
Architect seems like a worse Patrol.
I would change Stream to a Treasure-Attack, increase its cost (say to ) and have it only give other players Coppers.
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SettingFraming

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2017, 11:29:52 am »
0

I think, overall, these are all a bit too wordy.  Also, Estate and Copper (and other card names) should be capitalized.
Yep, will fix.

I think Anthropologist is a bit too strong.
It's pretty strong, but it's not like a $5 cantrip $3 is all that amazing, and decks with junk (and having to take on extra junk to keep it activated) are pretty bad. Maybe I can make it so you have to have even more junk, or you have to take on curses instead of estates? I feel that taking on curses would make it very weak though. As is, I suppose it compares slightly favorably to Conspirator, which I think is a good measuring stick for this sort of card.

I don't think I'd ever buy Crazed Explorer, you'd be Cursing yourself most of the time.
If you can draw your deck you won't be cursing yourself, and hitting estates could be really excellent (about a 25% chance). The top half is supposed to be really strong for the cost, but maybe it's not strong enough?

Sentry Tower is not good enough.  It can whiff too easily.  Also, it should be a Duration.
Yes, it should be a duration. What are the odds of Sentry Tower whiffing compared to Outpost in a reasonably thinned deck? Probably a little higher, I suppose. Not sure how I can boon it without making it over-powered, three cards would be just too many and nearly strictly better than outpost.

Capitol becomes nonsensical when you have any sort of variable-worth Treasure, like Bank.
Yes, this is a question that needs answering. So Bank, Fool's Gold, and Philosopher's Stone would have zero value, because they only have value when they are in play, and at the end of the game they are in your deck (not in play), and thus are not worth anything.

Pasture is horribly political, and in a 2-player game makes it not worth it to play any sort of junking Attack.
I feel that Pasture isn't as balanced in 3+ player games, in 2 player games you have to take on a pretty bad card in order to get the defense, and so just buying a bunch of them could be kind of bad. There's definitely a sort of RPS nature to the card that I like. I don't really get how it's political, as you're always going to react it since you don't want the junk for yourself. I don't think it's over-powered, just because it's difficult to have a bunch of a stop-cards in hand.

Architect seems like a worse Patrol.
This is correct, hence it costs $4. I don't think this card is very interesting, though, and I'm definitely up for replacing it with a more interesting terminal draw card.

I would change Stream to a Treasure-Attack, increase its cost (say to ) and have it only give other players Coppers.
As an attack I think Stream would be really really good, almost brokenly so. I like keeping it as weak card, although maybe everyone gaining coppers isn't actually all that playable as a strategy and the card rarely gets bought, even as $2 silver.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 11:34:48 am by SettingFraming »
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SettingFraming

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2017, 11:32:57 am »
0

I like the cards, they all feel different although Anthropologist and especially Pioneer seem too strong.
With Anthropologist you might want to switch the two sentences because you only need a Copper in hand basically to activate it and then it's just so strong.

Regarding Pasture: Action - Reaction cards are blue, not white/blue.

Pioneer definitely needs some fixing. I've made it read "All players with 5 or more cards in hand..." so that you only have to discard one per turn in order to avoid the snowball effect mentioned above, but that only partially mitigates the issue. I could make it cost $6, as well, but I feel that would only contribute to the 1-player Pioneer snowball.

Anthropologist might need some more nerfing, yes, but taking on a junk card just to activate a cantrip seems pretty bad most of the time and I think is pretty sufficient nerfing. Flipping it around might make it less reliable, which seems good, and also kill some of the potential trash-for-benefit combos (is that a good thing to kill though?). Also something I didn't fully think about before was you only have to take on junk once per turn, and all your anthropologist's will be activated, which seems a little too strong yes.

On that note, suggested fix for Anthropologist: you have to discard the Estate in order to activate it?

On Pasture all blue just looked weird, but of course I'll fix  :)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 11:41:09 am by SettingFraming »
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MattLee

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2017, 11:00:00 pm »
0

You've got some cool ideas here  :) I really like crazed explorer but I couldn't see myself risking the curses. If it was worded differently to not trash cards costing below 2 I think it could be a very weird fun card.
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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2017, 08:35:26 am »
0

Stream needs to be an attack imo, as the fact it harms yourself doesn't change it's attacking your opponents. And it's not like being able to block it would make it behave weirdly (like with Masquerade, Tribute, Chariot Race & Possession), either.

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2017, 10:36:55 pm »
+2

I would like to note that as-is, pasture could lead to an unending game in which both players have pasture, one curses the other, and the game degenerates into:
"You take a curse!"
"No, you take a curse!"
"No, you!"
Until such time as someone gets sick of it. You need some kind of clause to fix this, such as limiting the reaction to other player's turns. This will also prevent buying a curse to hand to your opponent through pasture. Additionally, a proposed fix to sentry tower:
Quote
Sentry Tower
Action-Duration $5
You only draw one card during your Cleanup Phase this turn. Take another turn after this one. This cannot cause you to take more than two turns in a row. At the start of that turn, reveal the top two cards of your deck, play any actions you find there, and discard the rest.
This keeps the original intended effect, and puts its power level closer to that of outpost. Yes, you get the village/golem thing, but you also get at most one treasure.
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SettingFraming

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2017, 01:45:56 am »
0

I would like to note that as-is, pasture could lead to an unending game in which both players have pasture, one curses the other, and the game degenerates into:
"You take a curse!"
"No, you take a curse!"
"No, you!"
Until such time as someone gets sick of it. You need some kind of clause to fix this, such as limiting the reaction to other player's turns. This will also prevent buying a curse to hand to your opponent through pasture. Additionally, a proposed fix to sentry tower:
Quote
Sentry Tower
Action-Duration $5
You only draw one card during your Cleanup Phase this turn. Take another turn after this one. This cannot cause you to take more than two turns in a row. At the start of that turn, reveal the top two cards of your deck, play any actions you find there, and discard the rest.
This keeps the original intended effect, and puts its power level closer to that of outpost. Yes, you get the village/golem thing, but you also get at most one treasure.

Pasture won't be unending because of the opponent's turn clause, so as soon as it gets back to the person who played the curser, they would have to take the curse.

That would work for Sentry Tower, and also make any actions that involve discarding/trashing a little more natural (and scary!).
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2017, 06:06:44 am »
+1

Maybe if crazed explorer was a looter, it would be ok?
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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2017, 12:33:36 pm »
0

Stream needs to be an attack imo, as the fact it harms yourself doesn't change it's attacking your opponents. And it's not like being able to block it would make it behave weirdly (like with Masquerade, Tribute, Chariot Race & Possession), either.

The problem with that is that Stream becomes completely broken good in a game with Moat or Watchtower, since you can play 3 or 4 of them as payload, have a Moat or Watchtower in hand, and just completely bury opponents.
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SettingFraming

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2017, 12:41:04 pm »
0

Thanks for the input everyone. Alright, so on my list of things to do to fix this set:

1) Weaken Anthropologist. (This is done, just have to upload the new image).

+ $3
You may reveal a Copper from your hand to gain an Estate to your hand.
You may reveal a Copper and discard an Estate for
+1 Card
+1 Action


2) Balance and un-wordify Sentry Tower. I've gotten some good suggestions from you guys about that. I might implement some form of those, or I might just kill and replace the card. I'm not sure the game needs an Outpost variant.

3) Make Architecht more interesting. I still want terminal draw in the set, but I need a better idea. I've been thinking about some form of cheap big draw with a significant (player interaction) draw-back.

4) Fix the problem with Pioneer that causes it to potentially completely snowball for one player. I've thought of a pair of fixes that could be used in conjunction, though they might be too wordy.
a. The attack only hits players with 5 or more cards in hand.
b. If this is the first Pioneer you've played this turn, at clean-up don't shuffle this card, instead placing it on bottom of your deck.

5) Go back through the cards and capitalize Estates and Coppers (and other card names, if any).

6) Fix Pasture's color.

Re: Crazed Explorer, I'm not sure it actually needs any fixing. I'd like to playtest with it. I just like how it is right now, it feels balanced if a bit dangerous and weak in the wrong deck, but I could be wrong.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 06:05:08 pm by SettingFraming »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2017, 12:46:55 pm »
0

Sentry Tower is nothing like a Golem at the start of your next turn... Golem finds the next 2 action cards in your deck; Sentry Post only looks at the top 2 cards. If the top 2 cards of your deck are a good drawer and a non-terminal, then you can actually get an extra turn. Otherwise, it's a pretty terrible extra turn.

Basically, it costs more than Outpost, and the drawback is way worse than Outpost. Great combo with Guide though.
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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2017, 12:50:49 pm »
0

Sentry Tower is nothing like a Golem at the start of your next turn... Golem finds the next 2 action cards in your deck; Sentry Post only looks at the top 2 cards. If the top 2 cards of your deck are a good drawer and a non-terminal, then you can actually get an extra turn. Otherwise, it's a pretty terrible extra turn.

Basically, it costs more than Outpost, and the drawback is way worse than Outpost. Great combo with Guide though.

Well, you still get an action just from it being your turn, so just a good drawer would be enough.

Anyways, making it a full Golem just seems too strong, and any form of weakened Golem just gets incredibly wordy and strange. I'm leaning towards just removing the card.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2017, 12:51:45 pm »
+2

Capitol becomes nonsensical when you have any sort of variable-worth Treasure, like Bank.
Yes, this is a question that needs answering. So Bank, Fool's Gold, and Philosopher's Stone would have zero value, because they only have value when they are in play, and at the end of the game they are in your deck (not in play), and thus are not worth anything.


While this is a possible fair answer to the question, it still makes some arbitrary distinctions between Silver and Bank that are no where in the rules. Silver isn't worth ", and doesn't have "a value of ". No, it produces when you play it, exactly like how Festival produces when you play it.

My suggestion, if you want to keep the same basic effect...

"At the end of the game, search through your deck and play all Treasure cards in your deck, in any order. Worth 1 per every you have."
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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2017, 12:53:19 pm »
0

Sentry Tower is nothing like a Golem at the start of your next turn... Golem finds the next 2 action cards in your deck; Sentry Post only looks at the top 2 cards. If the top 2 cards of your deck are a good drawer and a non-terminal, then you can actually get an extra turn. Otherwise, it's a pretty terrible extra turn.

Basically, it costs more than Outpost, and the drawback is way worse than Outpost. Great combo with Guide though.

Well, you still get an action just from it being your turn, so just a good drawer would be enough.

Anyways, making it a full Golem just seems too strong, and any form of weakened Golem just gets incredibly wordy and strange. I'm leaning towards just removing the card.

You're right that I missed the extra action. Even so, it's extremely swingy.
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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2017, 04:39:20 pm »
0

I would like to note that as-is, pasture could lead to an unending game in which both players have pasture, one curses the other, and the game degenerates into:
"You take a curse!"
"No, you take a curse!"
"No, you!"
Until such time as someone gets sick of it. You need some kind of clause to fix this, such as limiting the reaction to other player's turns. This will also prevent buying a curse to hand to your opponent through pasture. Additionally, a proposed fix to sentry tower:
Quote
Sentry Tower
Action-Duration $5
You only draw one card during your Cleanup Phase this turn. Take another turn after this one. This cannot cause you to take more than two turns in a row. At the start of that turn, reveal the top two cards of your deck, play any actions you find there, and discard the rest.
This keeps the original intended effect, and puts its power level closer to that of outpost. Yes, you get the village/golem thing, but you also get at most one treasure.

Pasture won't be unending because of the opponent's turn clause, so as soon as it gets back to the person who played the curser, they would have to take the curse.

That would work for Sentry Tower, and also make any actions that involve discarding/trashing a little more natural (and scary!).

I missed the clause limiting pasture's reaction to opponent's turns when I first read it, and even suggested such a clause myself. Apologies.
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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2017, 11:52:15 am »
+3

Stream needs to be an attack imo, as the fact it harms yourself doesn't change it's attacking your opponents. And it's not like being able to block it would make it behave weirdly (like with Masquerade, Tribute, Chariot Race & Possession), either.

The problem with that is that Stream becomes completely broken good in a game with Moat or Watchtower, since you can play 3 or 4 of them as payload, have a Moat or Watchtower in hand, and just completely bury opponents.
Both of these examples are wrong.
Moat, and any other card protecting against attack cards in general, won't help against the card's effect on yourself - the wording specifically mentions "another player".  Watchtower will always help, because it does not reference the attack type at all. The only thing that removing the attack type does is that it renders opponents' cards that care about attacks useless. It certainly does nothing to balance it.

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2017, 09:03:57 pm »
0

"At the end of the game, search through your deck and play all Treasure cards in your deck, in any order. Worth 1 per every you have."
I think this makes more sense, though to me this wording would imply that you follow these instructions for every Capitol in your deck, which would make for a generous interaction with Plunder (and a less generous interaction with Coin of the Realm). It might also be nice to get all those Treasure cards into your hand before you play them, in order for Crown/Counterfeit to work properly. In either case, I'm not sure how Treasure Trove should be handled.
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weety4

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2017, 01:59:46 am »
+3

Bank seems pretty overpowered in combination with Capitol.

Here is what DXV wrote about it:  "People think of adding up the total value of your treasures, and I playtested such a card, but treasures worth varying values kind of put the kibosh on that."


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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Highlands
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2017, 12:40:40 pm »
+2

"At the end of the game, search through your deck and play all Treasure cards in your deck, in any order. Worth 1 per every you have."
I think this makes more sense, though to me this wording would imply that you follow these instructions for every Capitol in your deck, which would make for a generous interaction with Plunder (and a less generous interaction with Coin of the Realm). It might also be nice to get all those Treasure cards into your hand before you play them, in order for Crown/Counterfeit to work properly. In either case, I'm not sure how Treasure Trove should be handled.

Fair point. Perhaps a simpler version that's just like the OP's, but specifies "Copper, Silver, and Gold" rather than "Treasures".
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