Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Jeebus]

I think the new platform was almost certainly launched too early. It has way too many bugs and especially interface problems. Not being able to name cards that are not available in supply and other bugs that make certain cards near-uplayable are serious problems.

But the interface problems are even more serious. There are several, but the most important is the buttons in the log. During beta testing, I didn't for one minute think that this (to me) temporary solution would actually be implemented live. A tutorial might have mitigated this confusing UI, but there is none.

I'm not complaining about these problems because of how annoying I might find them myself. (For instance I know about the buttons in the log, so this doesn't create a problem for me.) I just want to say that these are things that should be fixed ASAP. The longer until this is fixed, the more casual players will be driven away. Delaying launch would probably have been a better idea business-wise.

[DG]

The contract with Making Fun expired at the end of last year. I'm guessing that Making Fun would have been unwilling to continue their product until the new client was developed further. They would be getting almost no extra revenue from people purchasing sets in that period.

[Jeebus]

I found this priority list: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=512.0

Tl;dr of what I was trying to say: Certain UI improvements (like not having buttons in the log) should be priority 1. I'm not sure why UI improvements is not even listed.

[gkrieg13]

Well, if you read their forum, you will see lots of people complaining about things that aren't the buttons in the log, so that is why those fixes have a higher priority.

[Jeebus]

Well, if you read their forum, you will see lots of people complaining about things that aren't the buttons in the log, so that is why those fixes have a higher priority.

I am reading their forum, and I see people complaining about buttons in the log (or asking where the buttons are) and other things too, including other UI problems. So..

1) Several things are being complained about, which means the developers have to prioritize among them.

2) Nevertheless, priorities should not necessarily be based on statistics - how many people complain about each thing. Sometimes users don't complain about the things that bother them the most; sometimes they don't even realize what it is; sometimes users go away instead of complaining; only certain kinds of users even go to a forum; etc...

[Jeebus]

To be more specific, these UI problems should also be number 1 priority: Seeing the trash, mats, Durations, and Journey tokens.

[-Stef-]

...should also be number 1 priority...

That is an excellent summary of our main problem.

[Jeebus]

...should also be number 1 priority...

That is an excellent summary of our main problem.

I know it was partially meant as a funny remark, but surely you don't mean that the main problem is that one person lists 5 related UI problems as priority 1 (instead of internally designating them as 1 through 5). Rather you must be confusing it with different people listing different things as top priority? Assuming this, yes I'm only one person, and can only tell you my opinion (having worked in development and web design, for whatever that's worth) about what should be the top priority.

[pingpongsam]

Only one thing can be #1 priority, thus the word "also" is an oxymoron in this context. Furthermore, everyone is sure the issue they posted should be the #1 priority.

Now that the joke is explained is it funnier?

[Jeebus]

Only one thing can be #1 priority, thus the word "also" is an oxymoron in this context. Furthermore, everyone is sure the issue they posted should be the #1 priority.

Now that the joke is explained is it funnier?

No, especially since I already "explained" it. And it was never funny in the first place. It seems you didn't understand my last post though. Here's a hint: In the official priority list, "Adding German, Russian and Japanese support" is listed as priority 2. How can 3 things have priority 2??

[Witherweaver]

Only one thing can be #1 priority, thus the word "also" is an oxymoron in this context. Furthermore, everyone is sure the issue they posted should be the #1 priority.

Now that the joke is explained is it funnier?

Easy to fix, just create 1a, 1b, 1c, ... priorities.

[ThetaSigma12]

Top priorities in 2017:
1: Making ShuffleIT better
     1a: Adding Campaigns
     1b: Adding German, Russian and Japanese support
     1c: Card animations: animating all card moves
     1d: Expanding on friend list
     1e: Create an IOS and Android app
     1f: Adding features for Kingdom selection, e.g. to help new players learn cards gradually
     1g: Adding tournament support
     1h: Further improvements on AI
     1i: Offline client
     1j: Smart timing rules
     1k: Autoplay features
     1l: Add logsearch

FTFY

[Chris is me]

...should also be number 1 priority...

That is an excellent summary of our main problem.

I know it was partially meant as a funny remark, but surely you don't mean that the main problem is that one person lists 5 related UI problems as priority 1 (instead of internally designating them as 1 through 5). Rather you must be confusing it with different people listing different things as top priority? Assuming this, yes I'm only one person, and can only tell you my opinion (having worked in development and web design, for whatever that's worth) about what should be the top priority.

To explain the joke: They have a large number of important things to urgently do. Not doing this first is not saying this isn't important or is acceptable. It is only saying their problem is that they have a large number of important tasks, so it is very difficult to put one ahead of all the others.

And clearly this important thing isn't the #1 priority. Anything that doesn't break the game or is already implemented can't possibly be. The Mystic naming bug, any bugs that crash the game, cards not yet implemented, things not yet visible like the Journey tokens... these all are more important than something that does work in a bad way.

[Jeebus]

To explain the joke: They have a large number of important things to urgently do. Not doing this first is not saying this isn't important or is acceptable. It is only saying their problem is that they have a large number of important tasks, so it is very difficult to put one ahead of all the others.

What's this thing about explaining a joke that has already been explained, and by now several times? Of course I understand that all problems can't be top priority. Still, developers have to prioritize (or face total chaos), which entails "putting one task ahead of all the others," as difficult as that may be. So the point as such is moot.

And clearly this important thing isn't the #1 priority. Anything that doesn't break the game or is already implemented can't possibly be. The Mystic naming bug, any bugs that crash the game, cards not yet implemented, things not yet visible like the Journey tokens... these all are more important than something that does work in a bad way.

Well, none of those game-breaking bugs are listed in the official priority list. What I stated is more important than anything in that priority list.

And cards not yet implemented is way less important than a confusing UI that turns people away from the game. Actually even an occasional crash will probably turn away less people. Sadly, people are accustomed to the occasional failure of software these days.

[JW]

I would much rather have a visible trash pile than Stash and Inheritance.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I would much rather have a visible trash pile than Stash and Inheritance.

But without Stash, Chancellor just seems so useless...

[pingpongsam]

I would much rather have a visible trash pile than Stash and Inheritance.

But without Stash, Chancellor just seems so useless...

this is funny because Chancellor has been removed form the card pool in the 2nd Edition which is reflected in the online client.

[GendoIkari]

Only one thing can be #1 priority, thus the word "also" is an oxymoron in this context. Furthermore, everyone is sure the issue they posted should be the #1 priority.

Now that the joke is explained is it funnier?

Easy to fix, just create 1a, 1b, 1c, ... priorities.

"When they were naming vitamins they must have thought there were going to be way more vitamins than there ended up being. OK let's name these: Vitamin A, Vitamin B... ok man slow down we've got a lot to cover here. B2, B3, B4, B5, B6, B12. Then they got to E and they were like 'We're pretty much done. We've got all those damn B's. This is embarrassing. Let's just skip to K and get the hell out of here."

-Demetri Martin

[Kirian]

Ignoring for now the tone issues and digression and thoroughly-explained jokes, I think Jeebus is correct that having to do things in the log is something that needs to be fixed.  I assume it's on their list.  Whether it should be priority 1, priority 7, or priority 1q, is a different discussion.

[Witherweaver]

Ignoring for now the tone issues and digression and thoroughly-explained jokes, I think Jeebus is correct that having to do things in the log is something that needs to be fixed.  I assume it's on their list.  Whether it should be priority 1, priority 7, or priority 1q, is a different discussion.

Let's create a bracket for that!

[Dingan]

ShiT should use a bracket to determine which bug/feature to do next, for every bug/feature.

[SirClemens]

ShiT should use a bracket to determine which bug/feature to do next, for every bug/feature.

I am looking forward to "Top 30 bugs/features we should do next (#8 will blow your mind!)"

[sudgy]

ShiT should use a bracket to determine which bug/feature to do next, for every bug/feature.

I am looking forward to "Top 30 bugs/features we should do next (#8 will blow your mind!)"

Bug #8: the program sometimes causes the user's brain to spontaneously explode.

[pingpongsam]

I categorize a serious mistake as one that actually causes damages like say, leaks passwords in plain text, or deletes bought cards, or charges a user's account for another user's purchases.

Interface annoyances are therefore categorically not serious mistakes.

[Jeebus]

I categorize a serious mistake as one that actually causes damages like say, leaks passwords in plain text, or deletes bought cards, or charges a user's account for another user's purchases.

Interface annoyances are therefore categorically not serious mistakes.

I agree that those are more serious. Hopefully they're missing from the to-do list because they are not existing problems. My point was that the problems I mentioned are more serious than any of the ones listed.

[SirPeebles]

I categorize a serious mistake as one that actually causes damages like say, leaks passwords in plain text, or deletes bought cards, or charges a user's account for another user's purchases.

Interface annoyances are therefore categorically not serious mistakes.

I agree that those are more serious. Hopefully they're missing from the to-do list because they are not existing problems. My point was that the problems I mentioned are more serious than any of the ones listed.

weird placement of buttons is annoying, but is it really more urgent than game freezing bugs or the lack of matching for 3+ player games?

[Aleimon Thimble]

I liked Making Fun better, even if they never bothered to implement Empires. I should have known everyone was overhyping ShIT.

But I don't know, maybe this product will be just as usable (albeit more expensive) as MF in a couple of months. MF was pretty bad as well when it first came out.

[pingpongsam]

The real issue with MF was how practically non responsive they were, oh, and they had an unsustainable business model. I feel like both of these problems are being directly addressed in this venture. Given the same amount of time provided MF I expect This incarnation to be the best yet.

[Jeebus]

weird placement of buttons is annoying, but is it really more urgent than game freezing bugs or the lack of matching for 3+ player games?

What I'm trying to say is that it's beyond annoying. When a player don't understand where the buttons even are, it is a "game freezing bug".

[Witherweaver]

I've never had a game freeze on Shuffle iT, and I had them all the time with Making Fun.

[Aleimon Thimble]

I played maybe five games on ShIT in total, and two of them either froze or there was a button somewhere that I had to click but didn't manage to find.

I understand that it's hard to develop a good client, and I understand that two of our best Dominion players have put a lot of effort into this, but let's please not pretend that the current client in its current form is anywhere near as good as MF.

(not that I'm saying MF was brilliant or anything)

[Witherweaver]

For me, personally, it is far better than Making Fun.  That's not pretending.  But I would expect different people have different experiences.

Edit: (I'm only a casual player, though, and primarily play against bots (and MF bots were better), so I may also be a different user type than others.)

[pingpongsam]

For me, personally, it is far better than Making Fun.  That's not pretending.  But I would expect different people have different experiences.

Yeah, same here. I'm going through good games at a rate of 3x as fast as I could on MF. My biggest gripes are the broken familiar cards feature and the perceived inability to do much with the friends feature. These bug me because they stand in the way of me maximizing the fun I'm already having. The interface will get there but right now it does work just not super great awesome. The bugs that actually prevent play (such as naming cards not in the supply) are definitely the worst offenders right now. That is game breaking.

[Haddock]

I've never had a game freeze on Shuffle iT, and I had them all the time with Making Fun.

This is my single biggest issue with the client at this point.  For me I get freezes and hefty lag ALL THE TIME.  Particularly when I've just won a game, freezes are quite common.

Also, the FAQ on the ShIT forums is AMAZING.  Seriously, they need to link it in the client, it solves so many problems for players who are experienced at Dominion but don't understand some bits of the new client.  It solved so many issues for me.

[pingpongsam]

Zero freezes or lag, here; Desktop or Mobile browser.

[Witherweaver]

I've never had a game freeze on Shuffle iT, and I had them all the time with Making Fun.

This is my single biggest issue with the client at this point.  For me I get freezes and hefty lag ALL THE TIME.  Particularly when I've just won a game, freezes are quite common.

Also, the FAQ on the ShIT forums is AMAZING.  Seriously, they need to link it in the client, it solves so many problems for players who are experienced at Dominion but don't understand some bits of the new client.  It solved so many issues for me.

That's weird, it's totally the opposite for me.  The new client is so smooth for me, whereas Making Fun was always slow, laggy, and clunky. 

Though, the new client couldn't be effectively run in Chrome on my tablet.  It could be played, but there was a ton of lag (graphics lag, I think, not network).  I'm assuming it's memory/graphics related.  Button response on the touchscreen was poor.

[kn1tt3r]

I've never had a game freeze on Shuffle iT, and I had them all the time with Making Fun.

This is my single biggest issue with the client at this point.  For me I get freezes and hefty lag ALL THE TIME.  Particularly when I've just won a game, freezes are quite common.

I've only had those freezes at the end of the game with Firefox, never with Chrome. Maybe try Chrome until they've fixed it for all common Browsers (except you already use it of course).

[Haddock]

I've never had a game freeze on Shuffle iT, and I had them all the time with Making Fun.

This is my single biggest issue with the client at this point.  For me I get freezes and hefty lag ALL THE TIME.  Particularly when I've just won a game, freezes are quite common.

I've only had those freezes at the end of the game with Firefox, never with Chrome. Maybe try Chrome until they've fixed it for all common Browsers (except you already use it of course).

Already on Chrome, otherwise I would already have switched there; since it seems to be the browser they want people to use (correctly, of course )

[pingpongsam]

I'm getting the zero issues experience on Firefox...

[GendoIkari]

I dunno if it's just the iPad, or also on desktop, but my number 1 issue is the fact that you have to log in each and every time you open or refresh the page.

Other than that it's just some minor bugs. Like when playing a giant ridiculous engine; the game slows down a lot. You might have to wait several second between each buy when buying cards with a bunch of Goons in play. And sometimes after you use your last buy, or click end turn, the game just hangs and does nothing; saying it's still your buy phase. Then I have to refresh the page to restart.

Another weird thing; when Rattington is the one who ends the game, often the game will jump to the game over screen immediately when his turn begins; and then while on that screen you can see in the log him taking his actions including buying the last Province.

[LastFootnote]

I dunno if it's just the iPad, or also on desktop, but my number 1 issue is the fact that you have to log in each and every time you open or refresh the page.

This happens on desktop, too. I agree it's annoying.

Another weird thing; when Rattington is the one who ends the game, often the game will jump to the game over screen immediately when his turn begins; and then while on that screen you can see in the log him taking his actions including buying the last Province.

I also wish this weren't the case. If your settings have "wait for animations" enabled, that should include animations that lead up to the game ending.

[Kirian]

I haven't had a game freeze since beta.

Edit:  My experience is not intended to imply that those who have experienced freezes are lying.  I just wanted to throw out another data point.

[Beyond Awesome]

I've encountered freezes every now and then.

[JW]

I see the most important issues as: better, readily-available visual representations of the trash, mats, Durations, and Journey tokens. Fixing the ability to name cards so that Wishing Well, Mystic, etc. work correctly. Being able to see what all of the cards do in a split pile (Knights/Castles included). Not needing to click on the log, and needing to look at the log less in general.

The out-of-game client needs better guidelines for users, particularly what familiar cards are, and how they operate. A simple link in the client to Chris's unofficial FAQ would be a great start.

For someone who has played with all of the cards already, and has played hundreds of games, these things aren’t as severe. But right now I avoid recommending online Dominion to people who are new to Dominion, because I don’t think it’s friendly enough to beginners.

With the exception of ratings, which are important so that beginners don’t get routinely crushed, and a better interface for finding matches, none of the things on ShuffleIT’s 2017 priority list seem like they should be even close in priority (even you, Stash!).

Add retrievable gamelogs, rating, leaderboard
Finish implementing cards
Improving AI
Adding Campaigns
Adding German, Russian and Japanese support
Card animations: animating all card moves
Expanding on friend list
Create an IOS and Android app
Adding features for Kingdom selection, e.g. to help new players learn cards gradually
Adding tournament support
Further improvements on AI
Offline client
Smart timing rules
Autoplay features
Add logsearch