Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 10  All

Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards  (Read 36761 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3837
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2408
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2017, 01:06:52 pm »
0

All the $4 splitters should be roughly at the same rank, really.
Now this is something about $4 Villages I do agree with Awaclus on. The special abilities for $4 Villages tend to be:

Of diminishing utility in multiples (Worker's)
One-shots (Mining)
Not always capable of being meaningfully activated (Plaza, Fortress)
Of lower utility as the deck tends to an all-Action state (Wandering Minstrel, Walled, Farming)
... that sort of thing.

I would argue that Wandering Minstrel is a great asset to helping you get to an all-Action state (when trashing is in the picture) considerably faster than the other $4 villages and it's reordering helps in the smoothness of a deck relying a good part on terminals. It functions a lot like Apothecary in a way, except the Coppers are discarded instead of put to hand and it looks at three cards instead of four.

Besides that, I can agree with your assessment on the other villages. I had evaluated Fortress and Plaza higher however for whatever reason I had at the time.
Logged

Lord Rattington

  • Pawn
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
  • Respect: +7
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #101 on: January 04, 2017, 01:15:11 pm »
0

Rats is 60!!! What an outrage.
Logged

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2718
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3398
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #102 on: January 04, 2017, 01:37:27 pm »
0

Wandering Minstrel is a top ten $4 card. It is on a completely different level than all the other $4 splitters - far more powerful. Even only in "perfect" all thin decks (which is a terrible standard to judge any card by), Minstrel's reordering gives it powerful synergy with top of deck cards and makes sure you draw everything in the right order.

Fortress, Plaza, and Worker's Village are also clearly a cut above the rest but a cut below Minstrel. Arguing that Farming Village and Wandering Minstrel are "about the same" is just ridiculous.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

pm me if you wanna do stuff for the blog

they/them

weety4

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 139
  • Respect: +49
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #103 on: January 04, 2017, 02:27:05 pm »
0

Wandering Ministrel is a powerful 4$ village but there are Kingdoms in which skipping non-Actions hurts, e.g. in the case of a draw engine which relies on Treasures as coin source.
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4075
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #104 on: January 04, 2017, 02:39:18 pm »
+7

draw engine which relies on Treasures as coin source.

Especially in those games WM shines as you rather want to draw villages and draw cards first and the treasures last.

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 884
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
  • lockjaw
  • Respect: +1254
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #105 on: January 04, 2017, 02:39:40 pm »
+3

Wandering Ministrel is a powerful 4$ village but there are Kingdoms in which skipping non-Actions hurts, e.g. in the case of a draw engine which relies on Treasures as coin source.
i would say that this is the case where WM is at its strongest actually; if you're building the engine right, discarding treasures just mean you don't see them until the end, rather than missing them entirely, which is actually preferable


ppe yes
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'
6-9
he/him
beloved my john, i'll carry on

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2448
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #106 on: January 04, 2017, 03:26:52 pm »
0

Minstrel is an elite $4-cost
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11312
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +12080
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #107 on: January 04, 2017, 03:50:22 pm »
0

Fortress, Plaza, and Worker's Village are also clearly a cut above the rest but a cut below Minstrel. Arguing that Farming Village and Wandering Minstrel are "about the same" is just ridiculous.

Both Farming Village and Wandering Minstrel give you +1 card and +2 actions and don't really do anything groundbreaking in addition to that. Like, a card that was just Wandering Minstrel's ability on a cantrip wouldn't be amazing even if it was a $2 card, it would be something you'd buy when you could get it for free, but not something you'd buy over anything important. Definitely the vast majority of Wandering Minstrel's strength comes from the fact that it's a splitter for $4, and that makes it about the same as any other splitter for $4.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2718
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3398
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #108 on: January 04, 2017, 03:58:26 pm »
+4

Fortress, Plaza, and Worker's Village are also clearly a cut above the rest but a cut below Minstrel. Arguing that Farming Village and Wandering Minstrel are "about the same" is just ridiculous.

Both Farming Village and Wandering Minstrel give you +1 card and +2 actions and don't really do anything groundbreaking in addition to that. Like, a card that was just Wandering Minstrel's ability on a cantrip wouldn't be amazing even if it was a $2 card, it would be something you'd buy when you could get it for free, but not something you'd buy over anything important. Definitely the vast majority of Wandering Minstrel's strength comes from the fact that it's a splitter for $4, and that makes it about the same as any other splitter for $4.

Yeah, I wholeheartedly disagree that Wandering Minstrel "doesn't do anything groundbreaking". It is a card strong enough on several boards to buy when you have no need for +Action at all. It basically lets engines start playing substantially several turns in advance or through decks littered with stop cards. It lets top of deck cards like Hamlet or Vassal or Wishing Well work with more reliability and control. It lets cantrip only engines draw all of the Action cards they need to without choking as quickly on copper. It cycles your deck early on (isn't this why you love Lookout and Loan?)

Quite frankly if you don't think WM is substantially better than Farming Village, you aren't playing it to its full potential, and probably skipping it when you really ought to be playing it. It's a top 10 $4 card, and if it were a $2 cantrip it would certainly be in the top half of $2 cost cards.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

pm me if you wanna do stuff for the blog

they/them

aku_chi

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +1426
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #109 on: January 04, 2017, 04:03:33 pm »
0

Both Farming Village and Wandering Minstrel give you +1 card and +2 actions and don't really do anything groundbreaking in addition to that. Like, a card that was just Wandering Minstrel's ability on a cantrip wouldn't be amazing even if it was a $2 card, it would be something you'd buy when you could get it for free, but not something you'd buy over anything important. Definitely the vast majority of Wandering Minstrel's strength comes from the fact that it's a splitter for $4, and that makes it about the same as any other splitter for $4.

I disagree.  Cartographer is a slightly stronger (4 vs. 3 cards), slightly more flexible (you don't have to discard non-actions & can discard actions), cantrip Wandering Minstrel for $5.  I would buy a cantrip Wandering Minstrel for $4 occasionally.  More relevantly, Wandering Minstrel's ability works especially well on a village, because it sets up your terminal draw to draw something useful.  Wandering Minstrel is the best village to use in games with strong junking, or weak trashing, or treasure payload.  Wandering Minstrel is also great with cards that benefit from strong cycling (travellers and Urchin come to mind).  And even when none of those conditions are met, Wandering Minstrel is still a better village than Farming Village and Walled Village.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11312
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +12080
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #110 on: January 04, 2017, 04:31:27 pm »
0

Fortress, Plaza, and Worker's Village are also clearly a cut above the rest but a cut below Minstrel. Arguing that Farming Village and Wandering Minstrel are "about the same" is just ridiculous.

Both Farming Village and Wandering Minstrel give you +1 card and +2 actions and don't really do anything groundbreaking in addition to that. Like, a card that was just Wandering Minstrel's ability on a cantrip wouldn't be amazing even if it was a $2 card, it would be something you'd buy when you could get it for free, but not something you'd buy over anything important. Definitely the vast majority of Wandering Minstrel's strength comes from the fact that it's a splitter for $4, and that makes it about the same as any other splitter for $4.

Yeah, I wholeheartedly disagree that Wandering Minstrel "doesn't do anything groundbreaking". It is a card strong enough on several boards to buy when you have no need for +Action at all. It basically lets engines start playing substantially several turns in advance or through decks littered with stop cards. It lets top of deck cards like Hamlet or Vassal or Wishing Well work with more reliability and control. It lets cantrip only engines draw all of the Action cards they need to without choking as quickly on copper. It cycles your deck early on (isn't this why you love Lookout and Loan?)

Quite frankly if you don't think WM is substantially better than Farming Village, you aren't playing it to its full potential, and probably skipping it when you really ought to be playing it. It's a top 10 $4 card, and if it were a $2 cantrip it would certainly be in the top half of $2 cost cards.

If you don't think all $4 splitters are of roughly equivalent strength, you aren't playing to their full potential, and probably skipping them when you really ought to be playing them. The thing is, if we just ranked the splitters against each other based on their absolute power level, there would be a significant difference between Wandering Minstrel and Farming Village. However, we're also ranking them against other cards such as Militia and Bishop, and we're only putting them in a specific order, not evaluating how much of a difference in power there is between any two ranks. The fact that they're all splitters (which is an extremely strong effect by the way, it usually makes the difference between being or not being able to go for an engine, which tends to be the strongest strategy whenever it's possible) makes so big of a difference that it mostly obscures whatever other effects the card has in this kind of a ranking Militia and Bishop are definitely not so close to one another in strength that they both fit in between two different splitters.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2718
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3398
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #111 on: January 04, 2017, 04:56:24 pm »
+1

To be blunt, you are using the fact that Wandering Minstrel is a splitter to intentionally ignore the very strong effect it has. It's nowhere near negligible, and it makes the card sometimes worth buying even when you don't need a splitter, which is something you can't say about almost any other Village on the list (maybe Fortress?). If you don't think Minstrel does anything you are bad at playing with it.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

pm me if you wanna do stuff for the blog

they/them

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11312
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +12080
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #112 on: January 04, 2017, 04:59:53 pm »
0

To be blunt, you are using the fact that Wandering Minstrel is a splitter to intentionally ignore the very strong effect it has.

I definitely am! Splitters are that strong.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

trivialknot

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 697
  • Respect: +1069
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #113 on: January 04, 2017, 06:14:10 pm »
0

I rated Port higher than Wandering Minstrel, which implicitly puts me in agreement with Awaclus that the village effect of Wandering Minstrel is more important than its sifting effect.
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2448
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #114 on: January 04, 2017, 06:35:56 pm »
+2

You guys are weird.

Port is a good card though
Logged

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2718
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3398
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #115 on: January 04, 2017, 06:37:00 pm »
0

To be blunt, you are using the fact that Wandering Minstrel is a splitter to intentionally ignore the very strong effect it has.

I definitely am! Splitters are that strong.

Plenty of examples of boards you want Minstrel on without even needing a Village. The most obvious one I can think of is Highway / Market (Square), without Copper thinning or draw. You want to play as many Highways and Markets per turn as you can tolerate, but you don't want to trip on all that junk. Folding in a few Wandering Minstrel vastly improves your win rate.

Other examples would be stuff like Vassal or Herald. Herald becomes reliable draw even with hardly any thinning in the presence of Minstrel. Vassal can potentially chain into itself into the next Minstrel, which is pretty cool. Wishing Well and Mystic too.

Like clearly a cantrip minstrel at $2 would be quite good on a lot of boards, as evidenced by many players picking them up for $4 when they don't need more Villages. Topdeck inspection, discarding junk, etc are both very very good.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

pm me if you wanna do stuff for the blog

they/them

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3837
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2408
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #116 on: January 04, 2017, 06:45:51 pm »
0

I rated Port higher than Wandering Minstrel, which implicitly puts me in agreement with Awaclus that the village effect of Wandering Minstrel is more important than its sifting effect.

This doesn't exclude the possibility that a Village can have a very strong effect attached to it, but still be worse than Village that comes with a free Village.

If hypothetically, there was a card that was Village but also had Mountebank attack for $4 or some other strong effect, it is reasonable to not need to rank it next to other $4 villages, unless you already rank $4 villages/splitters higher than every other $4 card. Who knows, maybe you do rank the $4 splitters like that

Ranking all the $4 villages splitters next to Wandering Minstrel would be a major boost to all of them because Wandering Minstrel's topdeck effect is just so good when combined with +1 Card +2 Actions in games where the engine is strong enough to warrant getting splitters I'm the first place.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8171
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9576
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #117 on: January 04, 2017, 07:36:43 pm »
+1

You guys are weird.

I concur, using the term "splitter" seems incredibly deviant and abnormal.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

traces Around

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 319
  • Shuffle iT Username: tracer
  • Respect: +433
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #118 on: January 04, 2017, 08:44:23 pm »
0

Some of the discussions here are really stupid, especially when they take away from the real travesties of the latest list.

Salt the Earth is laughably high. With little experience I can see why it would be thought of as powerful but it ends up doing very little in games it is present in. Points are usually better than getting the game closer to an end and the megaturns that can result in buying many of them tend to be able to pile something other than Provinces.

Ranger should be much closer to Smithy than it is. Although it falls short when in comes to total draw across two plays, the first draw of a turn being 5 cards rather than 3 makes a huge difference and the +buy of course doesn't hurt. I would still rank Smithy above Ranger but I would put them very close to each other, certainly not 5+ spots apart.

LibraryAdventurer

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1308
  • Shuffle iT Username: LibraryAdventurer
  • Respect: +1005
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #119 on: January 05, 2017, 01:05:14 am »
+1

The only cards I had significantly different from these rankings:
-Farming Village I had #46
-Bishop I had #14.  I think it's crazy how low Bishop is here.
-I didn't rank Salt the Earth because I haven't played with it yet. (It's the only 4 cost that I didn't rank.)

weety4

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 139
  • Respect: +49
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #120 on: January 05, 2017, 03:23:34 am »
0

Topdeck inspection, discarding junk, etc are both very very good.
Wandering Ministrels also discards Gold or Platinum which doesn't qualify as junk in my book.
I think that it is weaker than other 4$ villages like Worker's Village or Port.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11312
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +12080
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #121 on: January 05, 2017, 05:01:06 am »
0

To be blunt, you are using the fact that Wandering Minstrel is a splitter to intentionally ignore the very strong effect it has.

I definitely am! Splitters are that strong.

Plenty of examples of boards you want Minstrel on without even needing a Village. The most obvious one I can think of is Highway / Market (Square), without Copper thinning or draw. You want to play as many Highways and Markets per turn as you can tolerate, but you don't want to trip on all that junk. Folding in a few Wandering Minstrel vastly improves your win rate.

Other examples would be stuff like Vassal or Herald. Herald becomes reliable draw even with hardly any thinning in the presence of Minstrel. Vassal can potentially chain into itself into the next Minstrel, which is pretty cool. Wishing Well and Mystic too.

Like clearly a cantrip minstrel at $2 would be quite good on a lot of boards, as evidenced by many players picking them up for $4 when they don't need more Villages. Topdeck inspection, discarding junk, etc are both very very good.

I could easily come up with way more boards where you want Farming Village without needing the ability to discard green cards. Like, pretty much every board where Farming Village is the only splitter, as well as pretty much every board where Farming Village is not the only splitter but you need so much terminal space that the better splitter pile will run out, as well as pretty much every board where Farming Village is a stronger splitter than another splitter which is present. Compared to your boards, out of which the most obvious one is a 3-card combination (i.e. you're probably not going to see it in a random kingdom during your lifetime even if you play thousands of games) and every other example includes specific cards as well, the ability to split seems at least an order of magnitude more important.

Topdeck inspection, discarding junk, etc are both very very good.
Wandering Ministrels also discards Gold or Platinum which doesn't qualify as junk in my book.
I think that it is weaker than other 4$ villages like Worker's Village or Port.

You definitely want it to discard Gold and Platinum. They might not be junk (although it's a little bit arguable for Gold in some cases), but you don't want to draw them before you've drawn all of your Actions, because otherwise you might not draw all of your Actions. Once you've drawn all of your Actions, you can just reshuffle and draw the Golds and Platinums anyway.


Also, I think that Port is definitely stronger than Wandering Minstrel, but even that difference isn't super big. That's because the main feature of Port still isn't the fact that you're able to gain a second splitter for free, but the fact that you're able to gain the first splitter in the first place. The free Port is just a bonus on top of that.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 05:10:22 am by Awaclus »
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

weety4

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 139
  • Respect: +49
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #122 on: January 05, 2017, 06:35:19 am »
0

You definitely want it to discard Gold and Platinum. They might not be junk (although it's a little bit arguable for Gold in some cases), but you don't want to draw them before you've drawn all of your Actions, because otherwise you might not draw all of your Actions. Once you've drawn all of your Actions, you can just reshuffle and draw the Golds and Platinums anyway.
This implicitly assumes that you draw your entire deck or a large part of it. In this case you are totally right.
But if your deck only draws a part of itself that discarded Gold is a liability.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11312
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +12080
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #123 on: January 05, 2017, 06:56:31 am »
0

You definitely want it to discard Gold and Platinum. They might not be junk (although it's a little bit arguable for Gold in some cases), but you don't want to draw them before you've drawn all of your Actions, because otherwise you might not draw all of your Actions. Once you've drawn all of your Actions, you can just reshuffle and draw the Golds and Platinums anyway.
This implicitly assumes that you draw your entire deck or a large part of it. In this case you are totally right.
But if your deck only draws a part of itself that discarded Gold is a liability.

You draw your entire deck.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2718
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3398
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $4 Cards
« Reply #124 on: January 05, 2017, 08:14:17 am »
0

You definitely want it to discard Gold and Platinum. They might not be junk (although it's a little bit arguable for Gold in some cases), but you don't want to draw them before you've drawn all of your Actions, because otherwise you might not draw all of your Actions. Once you've drawn all of your Actions, you can just reshuffle and draw the Golds and Platinums anyway.
This implicitly assumes that you draw your entire deck or a large part of it. In this case you are totally right.
But if your deck only draws a part of itself that discarded Gold is a liability.

It's a reasonably small edge case where you can't draw your whole deck, you want plenty of Village support, and you would rather draw payload stop cards instead of more actions that let you draw those cards later. In most drawing engines you want your payload last. Minstrel isn't the best there, but it's way more often that Minstrel makes your engine substantially more reliable / more likely to draw deck than this outcome.

I don't really understand this larger discussion of how other cards are the same (or, better?) than WM, because they are also splitters? Yes splitters are strong and have a strong effect. When comparing splitters to each other you are really only comparing the things that make them different. Going "but they are a splitter" is purely derailing in a direct comparison. And WM's differentiator is strong and substantial on many boards, which makes it elite particularly combined with the whole splitting thing.

And I knew Awaclus would pull that "it's a three card combo" "it's an edge case" bullshit if I named any specific example, which is why I didn't before. But it's an argument he can't lose. Either you don't name examples and he doesn't recognize the argument at all, or you do and he dismisses them as things that never happen. It's an EXAMPLE. One of Many. It isn't really even a three card example combo - any combination of Highway, Minstrel, and one of several nonterminal +Buy works. And you can substitute Highway for any cantrip payload! This isn't exactly an exotic uncommon deck that most people don't build.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 08:20:42 am by Chris is me »
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

pm me if you wanna do stuff for the blog

they/them
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 10  All
 

Page created in 0.108 seconds with 21 queries.