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Author Topic: Bonfire vs. Plan Cage Match  (Read 2552 times)

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aku_chi

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Bonfire vs. Plan Cage Match
« on: December 17, 2016, 12:29:18 pm »
+15

I played a set of six games against markusin in which Bonfire and Plan were always present, but I was not allowed to buy Bonfire and markusin was not allowed to buy Plan.  We seemed to be pretty evenly matched otherwise.  Here's how it went:

Game 1


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Bonfire, Plan, Crossroads, Raze, Apothecary, Masquerade, Scavenger, Talisman, Worker's Village, Cultist, Haunted Woods, Journeyman
The first game was dominated by Masquerade and Cultist, but we did decide to make use of Bonfire and Plan, respectively.  I opened with Masquerade + Potion, pursuing Apothecary.  markusin opted for Masquerade, a couple early Silvers, and a Bonfire.  markusin got a little unlucky in the early game; his Masquerade missed the shuffle and he didn't hit $5 until turn 5.  We both purchased a Cultist on turn 6.  markusin went heavily for the Cultists, picking up three more in the following three turns.  Meanwhile, I didn't hit $5 until turn 9, when the Ruins were half gone.  So, I opted for Plan (on Worker's Village) + Worker's Village - immediately trashing an Estate.  I trashed another Estate and two Ruins with Plan in the subsequent turns.  markusin bought Bonfire a couple more times, trashing a total of 5 Copper and a Ruined Village.  By the start of turn 12, we each had 0 Estates and 3 Ruins; but I had 7 Copper to markusin's 2.  markusin decided to invest in payload, getting Gold, Gold, Haunted Woods on turns 12-14.  Copper wasn't terrible for my deck (due to Apothecary), but I wanted to get rid of the Ruins ASAP, so I picked up a second Masquerade on turn 12.  My deck came together nicely, and I was able to rid myself of Ruins and buy Province + Apothecary on turns 13 and 14.  I got ahead in VP and was able to finish with a win, despite a brutal Haunted Woods attack followed by Masquerade on turns 17 and 18.

I'm not sure which of us had the better strategy.  I was certainly forgoing Cultists by investing in the Potion and Apothecaries.  I figured that Masquerades would be defense enough against the Ruins barrage.  It worked well; I didn't need to slow down for payload thanks to my Apothecaries and Coppers.  I wonder, however, if things might have gone differently if markusin's Masquerade hadn't missed his second reshuffle.  He would have been a little thinner and with an earlier Cultist.  Hard to say.  Either way, Bonfire + Plan were pretty useful in our respective strategies; slightly better than getting an additional Masquerade, I suspect.

Game 2


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Bonfire, Plan, Lighthouse, Pawn, Develop, Swindler, Tunnel, Plaza, Apprentice, Relic, Hoard, Peddler
This was a solid victory for markusin.  There were three important factors involved, as far as I can tell.
  • Bonfire was definitely better than Plan here.  Apprentice is great at trashing Estates, but lousy at trashing Coppers.  Peddler rewards Copper trashing, so Bonfire was great.  markusin bought Bonfire three times by turn 9.  I didn't even pick up a Plan.  I probably should have, but I didn't find the opportunity.
  • I had terrible shuffle luck with my Apprentices.  They missed shuffles without fail, and rarely collided with Estates.  markusin's Relic definitely hurt here.
  • markusin's single Lighthouse defended against my two Swindlers better than I anticipated.

Game 3


Code: [Select]
Bonfire, Plan, Squire, Loan, Oracle, Coppersmith, Nomad Camp, Thief, Worker's Village, Embassy, Trading Post, Fairgrounds
The third game ended up being a Fairgrounds slog.  I opened with Loan + Oracle, while markusin opened with Silver + Bonfire (the first and last).  On turn 3, I used Plan on Worker's Village - which I bought on turn 4.  I ultimately trashed two Estates with Plan.  markusin looked to be pursuing a simple Embassy money strategy, picking up his first Province on turn 7.  Faced with racing against that, I decided to settle at 4-point Fairgrounds.  Noticing that I was not cooperating in emptying the Province pile, markusin began diversifying his deck to get to 4 VP Fairgrounds.  Neither of us were well prepared for the intense greening that occurred in the second half of the game.  Ultimately, I was worse off because of all the Coppers my Loan had trashed.  markusin pulled ahead and I couldn't close the gap.  I'm sure I misplayed this game.  Ultimately, neither Bonfire nor Plan was super critical here.

Game 4


Code: [Select]
Bonfire, Plan, Vineyard, Squire, Lookout, Masquerade, Oracle, Storeroom, Marauder, Mining Village, Bandit Camp, Highway
The strategy in this game seems pretty clear in retrospect: get a bunch of Highways and +buy.  The draw is poor, so you'll want to trash heavily.  This is the strategy that markusin pursued.  I thought that Vineyards were going to be important, so I focused on getting Squires early.  As a consequence, I couldn't afford Highway and got blown out of the game.  Some details:

markusin opened Masquerade + Bonfire (his only Bonfire).  I opened with Masquerade and Lookout.  I never bought Plan.  Bonfire seemed a little better than Lookout here.  markusin subsequently bought a Silver and Bandit Camps.  The Silver seems like an obviously good idea, to afford Highways.  I'm less fond of the Bandit Camps, given the lack of draw.  Storeroom did help markusin get to his Spoils, though, which was cool.  But who am I to critique?  I bought Squire over Silver at every opportunity (thinking Vineyards would matter).  I did manage to pick up a Highway on turn 7 and we were pretty even at this point.  However, I couldn't get another Highway and markusin's deck snowballed hard (as Highway and +buy decks tend to).

Game 5


Code: [Select]
Bonfire, Plan, Herbalist, Native Village, Pawn, Fishing Village, Death Cart, Duplicate, Plaza, Horn of Plenty, Library, Market
This was a cool draw-to-X engine.  Fishing Village and Plaza both work well with Library.  Pawn and Duplicate also disappear from the hand.  Native Village has the potential to store away some junk.  It's possible to discard Copper with Plaza, but there isn't any good way to set aside Estates with your Native Village.  Bonfire was pretty good, of course.  You don't want many Coppers in a draw-to-X engine, and markusin opened with Bonfire and bought it a couple more times to trash six Copper.  However, he could never get rid of his starting Estates.  Plan on Fishing Village was fantastic for me.  I ended up trashing my starting Estates and four Copper (and I had another set aside on my Native Village mat for much of the game).  Despite my slow 5/2 start, I was able to get the upper hand and end the game in a three-pile.  I think we both underutilized Duplicate here; it was better than I've seen.

Game 6


Code: [Select]
Bonfire, Plan, Courtyard, Great Hall, Swindler, Coppersmith, Salvager, Tournament, Cartographer, Council Room, Saboteur, King's Court
The last game was a Tournament blowout in my favor.  We both opened with Tournament + Swindler.  markusin followed it up with a Bonfire and Cartographer.  I Planned to get Tournaments and did just that.  I decided to go all in on Tournament and hope I'd be way ahead by the time markusin got a Province.  My gamble paid off.  My deck got super thin and strong as a I bought Tournament after Tournament and trashed all three Estates and a Curse by turn 7.  I bought a Province on turn 8, paired it with my Tournament on turn 9, and snowballed from there.  markusin had no way to get rid of his Estates or Curses and a single Cartographer wasn't cutting it.  He conceded when I gained and played Followers.  I believe Plan was the superior trasher here.

Summary
markusin and I played six fun games.  We each started three games, and we each won three games (not the same games).

In game 1, Bonfire and Plan were both decently helpful in our respective strategies.  Bonfire helped markusin collide Cultists.  Plan removed Estates from my Apothecary engine.
In game 2, Bonfire was definitely better than Plan, because thinning was very important and the trashers on the board (Apprentice and Develop) were much better at trashing Estates.
In game 3, neither Bonfire nor Plan made a huge impact, because it was a sloppy slog.
In game 4, Bonfire was a little better.  Masquerade handled most of our trashing, but markusin's opening Bonfire was pretty solid.
In game 5, Plan was better than Bonfire, because thinning was very important, Plan was the only reliable way to remove Estates, and Fishing Village made a great Plan target.
In game 6, Plan was better than Bonfire, because Plan was the best way to trash Estates and Curses (Salvager was an inferior option, IMO, but wasn't attempted), and fast Copper trashing wasn't essential.

Edit: I forgot that Salvager was in Game 6, so it isn't as obvious that Plan was essential (though I think it was stronger than Bonfire here).
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 07:40:56 pm by aku_chi »
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drsteelhammer

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Re: Bonfire vs. Plan Cage Match
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2016, 01:27:47 pm »
+2

 In Game 6, I'm pretty sure Salvager+Bonfire beats both of your openings very easily (maybe not if Salvager gets hit by Swindler). Bonfire is clearly the superior event in that game.
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aku_chi

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Re: Bonfire vs. Plan Cage Match
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2016, 02:08:51 pm »
0

Whoops, I forgot about Salvager; Plan isn't the only way to trash Estates and Curses.  But I'm not nearly as confident as you are that Bonfire + Salvager is a better opening than Swindler + Tournament.  The kingdom has no cheap action splitters, so Salvager and Swindler compete against each other in the early turns.  Swindler is pretty strong here; there are poor kingdom cards at the $3 and $4 slots and there's no great way to trash Curses.  Given the snowballing nature of Tournament, I think you are mistaken in dismissing Plan + Tournament.  If you're interested, we could play some games on that kingdom.
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markusin

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Re: Bonfire vs. Plan Cage Match
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2016, 06:16:46 pm »
+1

Whoops, I forgot about Salvager; Plan isn't the only way to trash Estates and Curses.  But I'm not nearly as confident as you are that Bonfire + Salvager is a better opening than Swindler + Tournament.  The kingdom has no cheap action splitters, so Salvager and Swindler compete against each other in the early turns.  Swindler is pretty strong here; there are poor kingdom cards at the $3 and $4 slots and there's no great way to trash Curses.  Given the snowballing nature of Tournament, I think you are mistaken in dismissing Plan + Tournament.  If you're interested, we could play some games on that kingdom.

I was thinking along the same lines. I wanted Salvager, but Swindler seemed strong here and the terminal collision would be rough. I ended up losing a Swindler and a Silver for Great Hall, highlighting the Swindler threat.

I was surprised I won Game 3. More surprised on often Aki_Chi keeps finding his Worker's Villages.

I pretty much agree with Aku_Chi's assessments here. I learned that Masquerade is probably better than both Bonfire and Plan.

Really, the key takeaway for me here is that Plan is excellent when you have spammable and good cards in the $3 or $4 price point. Bonfire is still a good opener when you open with a power card I think.
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Re: Bonfire vs. Plan Cage Match
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2016, 10:33:01 am »
0

thanks for posting this report.
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