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McGarnacle

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McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« on: December 16, 2016, 11:46:33 am »
+1

Using Violet CLM's fantastic Dominion Card Image Generator, I've made some Fan Cards I would like your opinions on. They are supposed to work with Alchemy and Cornucopia specifically (2 of my fav expansions), using some ideas I've seen previously (like the + mechanic, which is awesome.

http://shemitz.net/static/dominion3/?title=Magic%20Book&description=%2B1%20Card%0A%2B1%20Action%0A%2B%20%241%0A%2B%20%5E%0A&type=Action&price=%245&preview=&picture=http%3A%2F%2Fimg03.deviantart.net%2F8a6e%2Fi%2F2011%2F010%2F1%2F9%2Fspell_books_by_tsabo6-d36v4sp.jpg&color0=0&color1=0

http://shemitz.net/static/dominion3/?title=Enchanted%20Wood&description=At%20the%20end%20of%20the%20game%2C%20worth%20%25%20per%20copy%20of%20this%20left%20in%20the%20supply.%0A&type=Victory&price=%244&preview=&picture=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F63%2Ff9%2Fd5%2F63f9d51a6928cedb47fff6e7fd1b9ed4.jpg&color0=2&color1=0

http://shemitz.net/static/dominion3/?title=Royal%20Banquet&description=%2B1%20Buy%0ATrash%20this%20and%20another%20copy%20from%20the%20supply.%20Worth%20%241%20per%20copy%20of%20this%20in%20the%20supply%20pile.%0A&type=Action&price=%246&preview=&picture=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F7%2F72%2FA_Boyar_Wedding_Feast_(Konstantin_Makovsky%2C_1883)_Google_Cultural_Institute.jpg%2F1200px-A_Boyar_Wedding_Feast_(Konstantin_Makovsky%2C_1883)_Google_Cultural_Institute.jpg&color0=0&color1=0

http://shemitz.net/static/dominion3/?title=Antiquarian&description=%2B1%20Action%0A%2B%20%5E%0AReveal%20the%20top%205%20cards%20of%20your%20deck%2C%20discard%20the%20duplicates%20and%20put%20the%20rest%20back%20on%20top%20in%20any%20order.&type=Action&price=%244&preview=&picture=https%3A%2F%2Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcR4oVCLXJsPCJ2B6ROEFpIm1KdqyAaZ-8zqc9LinHWW5zuOzXEM8W6REQ&color0=0&color1=0

http://shemitz.net/static/dominion3/?title=Haunted%20House&description=Each%20other%20player%20gains%20a%20Curse.%20Gain%20a%20Potion%2C%20putting%20it%20into%20your%20hand.%20If%20you%20did%2C%20set%20this%20aside.%20Return%20it%20to%20your%20deck%20at%20the%20end%20of%20the%20game.%0A-%0A-1%20%25&type=Action%2FAttack%2FCurse&price=%243&preview=&picture=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2Fa9%2F78%2F51%2Fa97851798e69852474278744b480b988.jpg&color0=0&color1=7

http://shemitz.net/static/dominion3/?title=Carnival&description=%2B1%20Card%0AReveal%20you%20hand.%20%2B1%20Action%20per%20differently%20named%20card%20in%20your%20hand.&type=Action&price=%244&preview=&picture=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oldlouisville.com%2FArtShow%2FMedievalFair.jpg&color0=0&color1=0

http://shemitz.net/static/dominion3/?title=Panacea&description=%2B1%20Buy%0AReveal%20your%20hand.%20Worth%20%241%20for%20every%202%20differently%20named%20cards%20in%20your%20hand.%20%2B1%20%5E%20for%20each%20Potion%20in%20your%20hand.&type=Treasure&price=%245&preview=&picture=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fpowerlisting%2Fimages%2F1%2F1f%2FAlchemy_news_item.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20120610050849&color0=1&color1=2








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ThetaSigma12

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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2016, 12:06:48 pm »
+1

Quote
Magic Book (Action, )
+1 Card
+1 Action
+
+P

461.Weavile has like literally the exact same card (art too!) in Warlords and Wizards, except it costs which I think I like better.
Quote
Enchanted Wood (Victory, )
Worth 1 per Enchanted Wood in the Supply.
I like it. A lot. Reminds me of kru5h's Beaches.
Quote
Royal Banquet (Action, )
+1 Buy
Trash this and a copy of this from the Supply. + per copy of this in the Supply.
Reminds me of Ben King's Gold Rush, which I think I like better.
Quote
Haunted House (Action - Attack - Curse, )
Each other player gains a Curse. Gain a Potion, putting it into your hand. If you did, set this aside. Return it to your deck at the end of the game.
-----------
-1
I don't like how it gives you a Potion when it usually won't be in the supply, and it's really weak. Also, the type should be "Action - Attack - Curse" not "Action/Attack/Curse".
Quote
Carnival (Action, )
+1 Card
Reveal your hand. +1 Action per differently named card revealed.
I like the concept. It's worth a shot.
Quote
Panacea (Treasure, )
+1 Buy
Reveal your hand. Worth for every 2 differently named cards revealed. + per Potion revealed.
Hmmm, I'd prefer it if it only gave 1 max. Also, the is irrelevant most games, and the + is a little weak.
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McGarnacle

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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2016, 12:36:15 pm »
+1

Thanks, Theta! Figured you would be the first to respond. So Magic Book should cost 3P. How could I change Haunted House? If Panacea could give only P max, how would I buff it (I agree, it is a bit weak)?
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tristan

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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2016, 01:33:49 pm »
+2

Enchanted Wood has already been suggested back in the days. I don't remember it's name, only that it was priced at 6. 4 is probably OK too though as the design implies that it is balanced at virtually any price. At a cheaper cost it is just easier to destroy the advantage of one player having 1 or 2 of them.

Haunted House is a cheaper Potion and a one-shot Curser. The only drawback is the negative out-of deck-VP. I guess that even on a board with decent trashing you would nearly always pick this over the first potion, not at least because in the opening you could buy a soon-to-be-Potion and a 4 instead of Potion and a 3.

Carnival is one of the coolest Cornucopiaesque villages I have seen. Probably pretty good for a 4 Village as it might often grant 3 or more Actions but the marginal benefit of extra actions on a village is sharply decreasing (village density also matters, you normally prefer 4 villages over 2 double villages).
So what I wanna say in short is that although this could net you a lot of Actions this IMO is not a balance problem.

Without Potion cards in the Kingdom Panacea is weak. You will only reveal Treasures and dead cards and even if you have Copper, Silver, Gold, Curse and some Victory card in your hand (which is quite a lot of variety) you will only get an effect which is identical to one of Charm's options.
In the presence of Potion it is kick-ass though as you can buy two strong Potion cards and rush an important pile like Scrying Pool or Alchemist.
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McGarnacle

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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2016, 02:13:14 pm »
0

Enchanted Wood has already been suggested back in the days. I don't remember it's name, only that it was priced at 6. 4 is probably OK too though as the design implies that it is balanced at virtually any price. At a cheaper cost it is just easier to destroy the advantage of one player having 1 or 2 of them.

Haunted House is a cheaper Potion and a one-shot Curser. The only drawback is the negative out-of deck-VP. I guess that even on a board with decent trashing you would nearly always pick this over the first potion, not at least because in the opening you could buy a soon-to-be-Potion and a 4 instead of Potion and a 3.

Carnival is one of the coolest Cornucopiaesque villages I have seen. Probably pretty good for a 4 Village as it might often grant 3 or more Actions but the marginal benefit of extra actions on a village is sharply decreasing (village density also matters, you normally prefer 4 villages over 2 double villages).
So what I wanna say in short is that although this could net you a lot of Actions this IMO is not a balance problem.

Without Potion cards in the Kingdom Panacea is weak. You will only reveal Treasures and dead cards and even if you have Copper, Silver, Gold, Curse and some Victory card in your hand (which is quite a lot of variety) you will only get an effect which is identical to one of Charm's options.
In the presence of Potion it is kick-ass though as you can buy two strong Potion cards and rush an important pile like Scrying Pool or Alchemist.

Thanks, man! Do you think I could fix Panacea by adding the set-up clause of forcing Potions to be in the kingdom?
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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2016, 05:13:22 pm »
0

I tried to do an alchemy part deu as my debut on the forum. I will repeat a bit of the general feedback here that I got there: + is a marginal benefit that only applies when there are cards that cost in the kingdom. It isn't really necessary.
Now, some individual feedback:
Antiquarian: Seems good. See above about +. Possibly a trite too expensive, in my opinion. NEVER EVER EVER play it after colliding treasure maps.
Carnival: Looks balanced
Enchanted Wood: Feels a little political to me, but I like the concept.
Haunted house: I really don't like action-curses (by the way, that should be action-attack-curse) but I might take an exception to this one. Not entirely sure how balanced it is though. Due to its nature as a curse, it could be argued that when your opponent gains a Curse, they could gain a haunted house. Not sure if this was your intention.
Magic Book: Outside of the above advice, seems balanced.
Panacea: Outside of the general advice about +, you mentioned a possible setup clause. The + is useless without a card in the kingdom, so when the + would be useful, there would already be potions in the kingdom. I would strongly advise against the inclusion of a setup clause.
Royal Banquet: wording -- ...from the supple. + for each copy of this in the supply. I feel like it needs some weird cost thing to make it balanced.
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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2016, 09:47:34 am »
+1

Enchanted Wood has already been suggested back in the days. I don't remember it's name, only that it was priced at 6. 4 is probably OK too though as the design implies that it is balanced at virtually any price. At a cheaper cost it is just easier to destroy the advantage of one player having 1 or 2 of them.

Haunted House is a cheaper Potion and a one-shot Curser. The only drawback is the negative out-of deck-VP. I guess that even on a board with decent trashing you would nearly always pick this over the first potion, not at least because in the opening you could buy a soon-to-be-Potion and a 4 instead of Potion and a 3.

Carnival is one of the coolest Cornucopiaesque villages I have seen. Probably pretty good for a 4 Village as it might often grant 3 or more Actions but the marginal benefit of extra actions on a village is sharply decreasing (village density also matters, you normally prefer 4 villages over 2 double villages).
So what I wanna say in short is that although this could net you a lot of Actions this IMO is not a balance problem.

Without Potion cards in the Kingdom Panacea is weak. You will only reveal Treasures and dead cards and even if you have Copper, Silver, Gold, Curse and some Victory card in your hand (which is quite a lot of variety) you will only get an effect which is identical to one of Charm's options.
In the presence of Potion it is kick-ass though as you can buy two strong Potion cards and rush an important pile like Scrying Pool or Alchemist.

Thanks, man! Do you think I could fix Panacea by adding the set-up clause of forcing Potions to be in the kingdom?
Well, the Potion alone does little in the presence of Potion alone; it requires cards that cost Potion or somehow interact with Potion differently.
So I'd say that like all fan cards with virtual Potion they are mostly only good if there are other Potion cards in the Kingdom and there are numerous house rules do deal with that. You could e.g. play with only 2 expansions like LFN does (or in this case, Alchemy, New Alchemy and one or two other sets) in order to increase the Potion cards ratio in the Kingdom.
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McGarnacle

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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2016, 11:12:46 am »
+1

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I've added some more cards. Thoughts?

Harbor (Action/Duration )
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Put a Treasure card from your hand on top of your deck.

At the start of your next turn:
+ $2
+1 Buy

Weaponsmith (Action )
+ $1
+1 Buy
When you discard this (other than during a clean-up phase) choose one; gain an Attack, putting it on top of you deck, or trash a card from your hand.

Exotic Market (Action )
+1 Action
+ $1
+2 Buys
Gain a copper.
Name a card. Reveal the top card of your deck. If it's the named card, put it into your hand.

Magic Shop (Action )
+1 Card
+1 Action
+ $1
+1 Buy
Gain a Potion.

Craftsmen's Quarter (Action [$5+]
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
-
When you buy this, for each $2 you overpay, take a coin token.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 12:14:09 pm by McGarnacle »
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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2016, 11:15:56 am »
+2

How do you discard crds from play other than in Clean-up Phase? That could make an infinite playing the same card.
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McGarnacle

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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2016, 11:49:25 am »
0

How do you discard crds from play other than in Clean-up Phase? That could make an infinite playing the same card.

Using a sifter.
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Gubump

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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2016, 12:09:52 pm »
+1

How do you discard crds from play other than in Clean-up Phase? That could make an infinite playing the same card.

Using a sifter.

Except that those discard from hand or from your deck, neither of which are from play. There are literally no official cards that can trigger Weaponsmith.
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McGarnacle

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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2016, 12:13:49 pm »
0

How do you discard crds from play other than in Clean-up Phase? That could make an infinite playing the same card.

Using a sifter.

Except that those discard from hand or from your deck, neither of which are from play. There are literally no official cards that can trigger Weaponsmith.

Whoops, fixed. Thanks  :-[.
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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2016, 12:23:07 pm »
0

I've mocked up all of the cards in your last post, with my suggested edits already implemented into said mockups.

Harbor

Weaponsmith

Exotic Market

Magic Shop

Craftsmen's Quarter
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 12:26:57 pm by Gubump »
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McGarnacle

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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2016, 01:14:46 pm »
0

I've mocked up all of the cards in your last post, with my suggested edits already implemented into said mockups.

Harbor

Weaponsmith

Exotic Market

Magic Shop

Craftsmen's Quarter

Nice! I've mocked them up myself, and it was cool to compare art. I may change a couple of mine, as well as implement the changes you suggested  :).
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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2016, 09:37:23 pm »
+2

Quote
Magic Book (Action, $5)
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
+P

It breaks the idea of "Potion-costs". For example, when you need Familiar, you buy Potion, then buy Familiar. After that, Potion is a dead card. Opportunity cost strengthens Familiar and other Potion-cost cards. Magic Book easily breaks this rule.
Cantrip+gaining a Treasure costing up to $4 in hand works.
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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2016, 03:05:40 am »
+1

Quote
Magic Book (Action, $5)
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
+P

It breaks the idea of "Potion-costs". For example, when you need Familiar, you buy Potion, then buy Familiar. After that, Potion is a dead card. Opportunity cost strengthens Familiar and other Potion-cost cards. Magic Book easily breaks this rule.
Cantrip+gaining a Treasure costing up to $4 in hand works.
That's nonsense as you usually buy several Familiars and cards like Alchemist or Apothecary still interact the actual Potion in your deck. Furthermore there is nothing in principal wrong with virtual Potion. I think that Magic Book is too cheap but if it would e.g. not provide a virtual coin it would be a very expensive cantrip after you are done buying anything with Potion cost; i.e. the general notion of high oppotunits costs of buying Potion cards is still followed.
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« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 06:30:44 pm by McGarnacle »
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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2016, 12:12:31 pm »
+1

Any thoughts?
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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2016, 12:49:25 pm »
0

Oh yeah, I was gonna post about it but I forgot :P.

I like it. The calling at the end of your Clean-up phase is cool and make it stand out a bit more, and lets it combo with Council Room and the such. 2 typos: "Mat" -> "mat" and "clean-up" -> "Clean-up"

I might make a version for myself, with my templates and stuff.
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McGarnacle

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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2016, 01:29:04 pm »
0

Oh yeah, I was gonna post about it but I forgot :P.

I like it. The calling at the end of your Clean-up phase is cool and make it stand out a bit more, and lets it combo with Council Room and the such. 2 typos: "Mat" -> "mat" and "clean-up" -> "Clean-up"

I might make a version for myself, with my templates and stuff.

Thanks! Yeah, I wanted a more precision but not obnoxious attack card which would sort of "lie in wait" just like a highwayman.
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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2016, 05:59:11 pm »
+2

I find highwayman a bit too similar to militia, tbh. It's almost strictly better. Sure, it's only +$1, but it's non terminal, colliding is thus never a problem. Nah, sorry, not a huge fan. :) It's also unmoatable.
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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2016, 06:20:06 pm »
0

I find highwayman a bit too similar to militia, tbh. It's almost strictly better. Sure, it's only +$1, but it's non terminal, colliding is thus never a problem. Nah, sorry, not a huge fan. :) It's also unmoatable.

You can make it an Attack card and it will be Moatable... but people will have to remember which particular instance of the card they Moated, potentially several turns later when it's called.
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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2016, 06:31:02 pm »
+2

I find highwayman a bit too similar to militia, tbh. It's almost strictly better. Sure, it's only +$1, but it's non terminal, colliding is thus never a problem. Nah, sorry, not a huge fan. :) It's also unmoatable.

You can make it an Attack card and it will be Moatable... but people will have to remember which particular instance of the card they Moated, potentially several turns later when it's called.
Really Complicated Version:
Quote
(Action-Attack)
If you called this, each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. Otherwise, +1 Action, +, and put this on your Tavern mat.
---------------
At the start of your Clean-up phase, you may call this, to play this.
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McGarnacle

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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2016, 06:31:57 pm »
0

I find highwayman a bit too similar to militia, tbh. It's almost strictly better. Sure, it's only +$1, but it's non terminal, colliding is thus never a problem. Nah, sorry, not a huge fan. :) It's also unmoatable.

Whoops, it was supposed to be an attack. Fixed. Maybe if it didn't give 1 action when played?
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AdrianHealey

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Re: McGarnacle's Fan Expansion
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2016, 07:35:48 pm »
+1

I find highwayman a bit too similar to militia, tbh. It's almost strictly better. Sure, it's only +$1, but it's non terminal, colliding is thus never a problem. Nah, sorry, not a huge fan. :) It's also unmoatable.

You can make it an Attack card and it will be Moatable... but people will have to remember which particular instance of the card they Moated, potentially several turns later when it's called.
Really Complicated Version:
Quote
(Action-Attack)
If you called this, each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. Otherwise, +1 Action, +, and put this on your Tavern mat.
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At the start of your Clean-up phase, you may call this, to play this.

Even if it rule wise works, it's a bit meh imo.

I would put a clause on the calling aspect, like whine mzrchant does
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