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[Loschmidt]

Buy a Hoard as soon as you hit 6, then buy Duchies or Estates whenever you play Hoard.

What you think you've done: Created a way to get lots of Gold for less than $6 each.
What you've actually done: Passed up a Gold for a Silver, and turned each of your subsequent Golds into $1.5 per card instead of $3 per card.

If all you're doing is buying hoards and VP then you're right, its pretty stupid. But with any sort of sifting (cellar/warehouse/embassy) at all this is a perfectly legit strategy.

Hmmm...this makes me wonder now. I think i'd like to simulate

Hoard+BM
Hoard+BM (where you always buy VP when hoard shows up)
Hoard+BM+cellar/warehouse/embassy (where you always buy VP when hoard shows up)

[HiveMindEmulator]

Situation: Open Festival
What you think you've done: Opened with a powerful $5 card
What you've actually done: Opened with Woodcutter

What you think you've done: Made a good post on this thread.
What you've actually done: Ignored the longer-term benefits of a Festival opening.

[popsofctown]

To be specific, I meant the optimization of Chapel/Big Money vs. Big Money, not necessarily the Silver/Chapel opening.  A turn 3 or 4 Chapel might be better, trashing estates and coppers only as much as you can while still buying a silver or gold.

[Tahtweasel]

Situation: Open Festival
What you think you've done: Opened with a powerful $5 card
What you've actually done: Opened with Woodcutter

What you think you've done: Made a good post on this thread.
What you've actually done: Ignored the longer-term benefits of a Festival opening.

Depends on what terminals are available. If there aren't any useful terminals, Festival = Woodcutter.

[ftl]

If there's no useful terminals, then yeah, getting a card that has +2 actions on it is might be a waste in general, not just as an opener. (Exceptions exist, like Minion, but still.)

But is it really that common for a board to have no useful terminals, and yet still have something better than Festival for a 5-2 start? At the very least, Festival is at least a Silver.

[Deadlock39]

Yeah, even without any useful terminals, Festival is better than Woodcutter.  The first one isn't an improvement, but you can buy more of them later in the game with no concerns of them colliding unlike Woodcutter.  It's not a great 5, but in this scenario it is strictly superior to Silver (+buy) and Woodcutter (can't collide).

[Loschmidt]

Buy a Hoard as soon as you hit 6, then buy Duchies or Estates whenever you play Hoard.

What you think you've done: Created a way to get lots of Gold for less than $6 each.
What you've actually done: Passed up a Gold for a Silver, and turned each of your subsequent Golds into $1.5 per card instead of $3 per card.

If all you're doing is buying hoards and VP then you're right, its pretty stupid. But with any sort of sifting (cellar/warehouse/embassy) at all this is a perfectly legit strategy.

Hmmm...this makes me wonder now. I think i'd like to simulate

Hoard+BM
Hoard+BM (where you always buy VP when hoard shows up)
Hoard+BM+cellar/warehouse/embassy (where you always buy VP when hoard shows up)

After doing some simulation I think I need to eat my words GendoIkari. Not only does optimised Hoard lose to Big Money but Hoard + X basically ties with BM + X. And Hoard + Embassy loses to BM + Embassy.

You're going to need a well thought out strategy to make use of Hoard properly.

The numbers if anyone is interested.

Bot   vs    BMU

Hoard                         45 46
Hoard + cellar              45 46
Hoard + warehouse       50 41
Hoard + embassy          72 21
H+warehouse+embassy  73 21

Hoard + X vs BMU + X

H+cellar                      49 46 (Hoard only wins here because BMU beats BMU+cellar 46/44)
H+warehouse               47 46
H+embassy                  41 51
H+warehouse+embassy  46 44

Keep in mind all of these bots aren't optimised. It might be possible to eek out a few percent in places.

[Forge!!!]

Buy a Hoard as soon as you hit 6, then buy Duchies or Estates whenever you play Hoard.

What you think you've done: Created a way to get lots of Gold for less than $6 each.
What you've actually done: Passed up a Gold for a Silver, and turned each of your subsequent Golds into $1.5 per card instead of $3 per card.

If all you're doing is buying hoards and VP then you're right, its pretty stupid. But with any sort of sifting (cellar/warehouse/embassy) at all this is a perfectly legit strategy.

Hmmm...this makes me wonder now. I think i'd like to simulate

Hoard+BM
Hoard+BM (where you always buy VP when hoard shows up)
Hoard+BM+cellar/warehouse/embassy (where you always buy VP when hoard shows up)

After doing some simulation I think I need to eat my words GendoIkari. Not only does optimised Hoard lose to Big Money but Hoard + X basically ties with BM + X. And Hoard + Embassy loses to BM + Embassy.

You're going to need a well thought out strategy to make use of Hoard properly.

The numbers if anyone is interested.

Bot   vs    BMU

Hoard                         45 46
Hoard + cellar              45 46
Hoard + warehouse       50 41
Hoard + embassy          72 21
H+warehouse+embassy  73 21

Hoard + X vs BMU + X

H+cellar                      49 46 (Hoard only wins here because BMU beats BMU+cellar 46/44)
H+warehouse               47 46
H+embassy                  41 51
H+warehouse+embassy  46 44

Keep in mind all of these bots aren't optimised. It might be possible to eek out a few percent in places.

The creepiest thing in the world: I was reading this exact post, and Loschmidt asked to play a game with me on Isotropic. I think he might be keeping track of who is reading this post somehow....

[Loschmidt]

I'm watching.......always watching....

[HiveMindEmulator]

After doing some simulation I think I need to eat my words GendoIkari. Not only does optimised Hoard lose to Big Money but Hoard + X basically ties with BM + X. And Hoard + Embassy loses to BM + Embassy.

The "optimized" Hoard bot is really bad. There is a better one here.

[WanderingWinder]

After doing some simulation I think I need to eat my words GendoIkari. Not only does optimised Hoard lose to Big Money but Hoard + X basically ties with BM + X. And Hoard + Embassy loses to BM + Embassy.

The "optimized" Hoard bot is really bad. There is a better one here.

Yes, the one in the sim is quite old and terrible. In fact, we've been working on improving it today... and it beats BMU pretty handily, buy you've got to play it right.

[Kirian]

I'm watching.......always watching....

[jotheonah]

What you think you've done: Bought two Treasure Maps
What you've actually done: Bought one Treasure Map

Ok, I know not quite in the spirit of the thread.

[Robz888]

To be specific, I meant the optimization of Chapel/Big Money vs. Big Money, not necessarily the Silver/Chapel opening.  A turn 3 or 4 Chapel might be better, trashing estates and coppers only as much as you can while still buying a silver or gold.

I've read that buying Chapel after turn 2 is really bad. If you are going to buy Chapel, you should buy it as soon as possible.

The point with Chapel vs. Big Money is that trashing Coppers and Estates doesn't really help unless you are then going to construct a massive engine.

[DStu]

Depends on what terminals are available. If there aren't any useful terminals, Festival = Woodcutter.

If there aren't any usefull terminals, a Woodcutter is a good buy...

[Eistee]

Seriously, guys.

I can't read a single "fun" thread on this forum anymore because it will eventually be filled with

1. someone pointing out that someone is wrong (like here, with festival)
2. arguments wether this card or another card is better in BMU
3. people pulling out simulator data no one reading this thread cares about
4. more arguing

Yes, I know that discussing the strength of cards is nice. But please, do it in a thread that was created for it... This thread is named "What you think you've done/What you've actually done", and not "Post statements. Let other people discuss wether they are true or false"

Sorry if I sound butthurt (I'm sure I do), but I find this quite annoying. I wanted to have a good laugh, but that isn't possible when only every 10th post actually has something to do with the topic.

[Asklepios]

Ok, here's one I've done:

Situation: Buy Haggler in a Vineyards game.

What you think you've done: Set up a crazy two for one deal that will see your number of actions in deck go up twice as fast.

What you've actually done: Forced yourself to buy a copper whenever you buy a vineyard AND passed up a chance to buy a potion, thus giving two reasons why you eventually lose the Vineyard race...

[Davio]

What you think you've done: Bought two Treasure Maps
What you've actually done: Bought one Treasure Map

Ok, I know not quite in the spirit of the thread.

Treasure Map is awkwardly named, the card should read: Half of a Treasure Map.

[Anon79]

Looking at the OP, this didn't seem to start off as a fun thread.

[Davio]

Situation: Grab a Lookout
What you think you've done: Given yourself a chance to trash Curses
What you've actually done: Trashed Coppers

[GendoIkari]

situation: You Embargoed the Provinces when behind on VP
What you think you've done: Discouraged other players from buying Provinces so you can sneak ahead by some miracle
The truth: http://img4.memecenter.com/uploaded/11561612361c9a2f4ee88f606d40016a9.jpg

Not necessarily!  http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1678.0

[WanderingWinder]

Ok, here's one I've done:

Situation: Buy Haggler in a Vineyards game.

What you think you've done: Set up a crazy two for one deal that will see your number of actions in deck go up twice as fast.

What you've actually done: Forced yourself to buy a copper whenever you buy a vineyard AND passed up a chance to buy a potion, thus giving two reasons why you eventually lose the Vineyard race...

Just don't play haggler when you're going to buy a vineyard.....

[TrojH]

Situation: Grab a Lookout
What you think you've done: Given yourself a chance to trash Curses
What you've actually done: Trashed Coppers

To play off of this one:

Situation: Play a Lookout late in the game
What you think you've done: Given yourself a chance to trash a Curse or a Copper
What you've actually done: Trashed a Province, since you had three of them on top of your deck.

[Robz888]

Situation: Played a bunch of Governors for +cards, and bought one Province with your $20 in hand.

What you think you've done: This is great, I drew my whole deck!
What you've actually done: So did everybody else.

[ratxt1]

Situation: after a long governer +card chain you play a militia.
what you think you've done: discarded them down to a worse hand than they started
what you've actually done: tutored the 3 best cards of their deck.

of course a militia is still a great complemint to a governer deck. It doesn't mean you can just play goverener for cards without thinking though. Minion on the other hand...