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[heatthespurs]

Looking at the OP, this didn't seem to start off as a fun thread.

Agree. This is more like a list of some common but not-so-trivial mistake in this game. And this would inevitably lead to some discussion (and debate) over the usage of different cards

Actually i think this kind of "off topic" discussion pretty useful in improving my game

[Asklepios]

Ok, here's one I've done:

Situation: Buy Haggler in a Vineyards game.

What you think you've done: Set up a crazy two for one deal that will see your number of actions in deck go up twice as fast.

What you've actually done: Forced yourself to buy a copper whenever you buy a vineyard AND passed up a chance to buy a potion, thus giving two reasons why you eventually lose the Vineyard race...

Just don't play haggler when you're going to buy a vineyard.....

Yeah, fair enough!

Still, better to spend that $5 on a potion almost every time, or if buying actions, to buy a cheap action that is one of the three-piles and gives a +buy.

[ecq]

Looking at the OP, this didn't seem to start off as a fun thread.

Agree. This is more like a list of some common but not-so-trivial mistake in this game. And this would inevitably lead to some discussion (and debate) over the usage of different cards

Actually i think this kind of "off topic" discussion pretty useful in improving my game

As the OP, this is correct.  The format probably made it seem more lighthearted than I had intended.  I was trying to collect examples of plays that look good but are nearly equivalent to plays that clearly aren't as good.  Three of the four examples I listed were eye-opening to me when I found them (the Village one wasn't, but it's the canonical example).  I figured I'd share them and hopefully pick up some more.

That said, I'm glad people are having fun with it, and sometimes even the joking posts have something useful to share about the game.

[Davio]

Situation: Open with Potion in a game with only Golem or Possession as Potion-costing cards
What you think you've done: On your way to hit those power cards!
What you've actually done: Gave yourself a useless card for the first 2/3 shuffles

Chances are you're not going to hit that Golem after the first shuffle, it would be the equivalent of getting an early Gold, since you need Potion-4C or Potion-3C-S, thus not a single Estate. Even if you would get the Golem, that could have been a Gold and the order is wrong. Golem is a support card and it's only as good as the cards it draws. If you get Golem first and the good cards later, it's useless. Get the cards you want Golem to dig up first and the Golem later if you still think you need it (you probably don't).

For Possession it's even more difficult to get and you need the equivalent of a Province buying hand to grab it, so you could've bought a Province instead.

[Voltgloss]

Situation:  buy a Duchy when running a Hunting Party deck
What you think you've done: Given yourself a VP edge when fighting over the Provinces
What you've actually done: Ruined your ability to actually buy those Provinces

[Ozle]

Situation: Typed gg into the text box before logging off
What you think you've done: Shown a sign of sportsmanship to your opponent
What you've actually done: Nothing; besides posting a generic non-pleasentry that everybody does by rote so your opponent has no idea wheher it was genuine or not.

[Kirian]

Situation: Typed gg into the text box before logging off
What you think you've done: Shown a sign of sportsmanship to your opponent
What you've actually done: Nothing; besides posting a generic non-pleasentry that everybody does by rote so your opponent has no idea wheher it was genuine or not.

:rolleyes:

[DStu]

Situation:

Situation: Typed gg into the text box before logging off
What you think you've done: Shown a sign of sportsmanship to your opponent
What you've actually done: Nothing; besides posting a generic non-pleasentry that everybody does by rote so your opponent has no idea wheher it was genuine or not.

What you think you've done: made a contribution to this thread.
What you've actually done: killed this thread...

[Ozle]

Doh, sorry!

[RisingJaguar]

Situation: Typed gg into the text box before logging off
What you think you've done: Shown a sign of sportsmanship to your opponent
What you've actually done: Nothing; besides posting a generic non-pleasentry that everybody does by rote so your opponent has no idea wheher it was genuine or not.

Decline of Civility, Isotropic section of forums.  You'll have a ball there

[Julle]

What you think you've done: set up a great plan by embargoing curses several times and now gaining several silvers with traders in hand
What you've actually done: played you traders and now you're gaining several curses

[DrHades]

Situation: Trashing Estate into a 4$ with Farmland
What you think you've done: Getting rid of Estate and gaining a great card instead.
What you've actually done: Maikng your Estate worth 1 point more and buying a 4$ instead of 5$ or Gold.

I think MANY people don't get this one...

[Axxle]

Situation: Buying a Fairgrounds with $6
What you think you've done: Increased your VP count by a significant amount with a diverse deck.
What you've actually done: Trashed your province for nothing since you actually bought a Farmland.

That wasn't a good day...  Remember to read the cards!

[Robz888]

Situation: Bought Hoard in a Colony game.

What you think you've done: Prepared yourself for gold-gaining so you can move on to Platinums and Colonies.
What you've actually done: Bought an expensive Silver that will tempt you to decrease the value of your deck.

[jotheonah]

Situation: Trashing Estate into a 4$ with Farmland
What you think you've done: Getting rid of Estate and gaining a great card instead.
What you've actually done: Maikng your Estate worth 1 point more and buying a 4$ instead of 5$ or Gold.

I think MANY people don't get this one...

But you've "made your Estate" remodelable (or Farmlandable) into a Province. So it's not as bad as all that.

[blueblimp]

Situation: Trashing Estate into a 4$ with Farmland
What you think you've done: Getting rid of Estate and gaining a great card instead.
What you've actually done: Maikng your Estate worth 1 point more and buying a 4$ instead of 5$ or Gold.

I think MANY people don't get this one...

On a similar theme...

Situation: Have an Estate and Curse in hand, use Salvager on the Curse.
What you think you've done: Completely negated one of your opponent's Witch plays!
What you've actually done: Given up an additional $2 that turn in exchange for +2VP net.

This is not necessarily a bad play, but I definitely feel the urge to trash Curses more than is actually worth it.

[Asklepios]

Situation: Trashing Estate into a 4$ with Farmland
What you think you've done: Getting rid of Estate and gaining a great card instead.
What you've actually done: Maikng your Estate worth 1 point more and buying a 4$ instead of 5$ or Gold.

I think MANY people don't get this one...

But you've "made your Estate" remodelable (or Farmlandable) into a Province. So it's not as bad as all that.

Exactly!

I think a lot of people actually don't appreciate how much faster Farmlands can make a deck. Suddenly, you need $6 to start on the Province run, rather than $8. Also, marginal VP gains = tiebreaker in a 4-4 province split.

Farmlands is a card that I initially thought weak, but with time am beginning to see as an essential buy whenever it turns up. Unless there really is an incredible power card at $5, or my deck doesn't have a couple of golds yet, I'd almost always advocate getting the Farmland and changing the estate to a useful $4. What has actually happened is:

...+1 VP net total, ok not great, but every point counts.
...the card slot that was dead from being occupied by an estate is now occupied by a useful card for any trash-for-benefit, and we know that there's at least one trash for benefit card in the set: Farmland. If there's other trash for benefits in the Kingdom, then Farmlands becomes even better!
...a $4  card has been bought.

Compare this to buying a $5 card:

...a $5 card has been bought.

And that's it.

Farmland suddenly looks quite appealing, though obviously the real deciding factor is how much better a $5 card in a given kingdom is than a $4 card.
But as a rule of thumb, I think Farmland, a good card gained and a bad card trashed is worth way more than most $5 action cards

Buying a gold, OTOH, is very different. My general observation is most people don't buy enough gold. In the early to mid game Gold is probably better than Farmland + a great trash (i.e. okay $3-> great $5). In the late game, once you have enough gold in deck, I'd strongly advocate the Farmland if it gives even a slightly worthwhile trash.

[DrHades]

Situation: Trashing Estate into a 4$ with Farmland
What you think you've done: Getting rid of Estate and gaining a great card instead.
What you've actually done: Maikng your Estate worth 1 point more and buying a 4$ instead of 5$ or Gold.

I think MANY people don't get this one...

But you've "made your Estate" remodelable (or Farmlandable) into a Province. So it's not as bad as all that.

Exactly!

I think a lot of people actually don't appreciate how much faster Farmlands can make a deck. Suddenly, you need $6 to start on the Province run, rather than $8. Also, marginal VP gains = tiebreaker in a 4-4 province split.

Farmlands is a card that I initially thought weak, but with time am beginning to see as an essential buy whenever it turns up. Unless there really is an incredible power card at $5, or my deck doesn't have a couple of golds yet, I'd almost always advocate getting the Farmland and changing the estate to a useful $4. What has actually happened is:

...+1 VP net total, ok not great, but every point counts.
...the card slot that was dead from being occupied by an estate is now occupied by a useful card for any trash-for-benefit, and we know that there's at least one trash for benefit card in the set: Farmland. If there's other trash for benefits in the Kingdom, then Farmlands becomes even better!
...a $4  card has been bought.

Compare this to buying a $5 card:

...a $5 card has been bought.

And that's it.

Farmland suddenly looks quite appealing, though obviously the real deciding factor is how much better a $5 card in a given kingdom is than a $4 card.
But as a rule of thumb, I think Farmland, a good card gained and a bad card trashed is worth way more than most $5 action cards

Buying a gold, OTOH, is very different. My general observation is most people don't buy enough gold. In the early to mid game Gold is probably better than Farmland + a great trash (i.e. okay $3-> great $5). In the late game, once you have enough gold in deck, I'd strongly advocate the Farmland if it gives even a slightly worthwhile trash.

Situation 1: Trashing Estate into a 4$ with Farmland.

You are really saying that +1VP, SilveronlywhenyouneedtobuyProvince and 4$ is better than Blank card (estate) and great action or Gold?
Early game: I wanna gold.
Mid game: Maybe sometimes yes, but mostly I want a 5$ or Gold.
Late game: Tottally stupid, I don't wanna get rid of my Estate.

Situation 2: Trashing 3$ into 5$ with Farmland.

Let's say that 3$ is a Silver (it can be better, it can be worse, but let's say it's Silver). So this is:
Silver + 5$/Gold vs. 2VP + SilveronlywhenyouneedtobuyProvince + 5$. Let's say I don't want to Gold, so this is:
Silver vs. Harem that works only when buing Province and only 1 at a time.
Again - maybe in late midgame, but never at the beggining or at the end.

I am not saying that Farmland is a bad card, I am just saying that its main use is to trash things for greens at the end of the game. When you are trashing with it early, it is mostly bad decision and if in the midgame, you might be right, but you need a very good plan to do so...

And as for the extra points - yeah, but you are also making buying Duchies much more difficult for you...

[mnavratil]

It's not even extra points most of the time if you are playing Farmlands like that. Example: Buy Farmlands, Trash estate for $4 action. Buy Farmlands, Trash Farmlands into Province. End result +8VP (1 Farmlands, 1 Province).

Better Scenario: Buy Gold. Buy Farmland, Trash Gold, Gain Province. End result +8VP (1 farmlands, 1 province).

What you actually do when trashing an estate is to trade a gold for a $4 action. Any trash for benefit cards that can use farmland, can also use gold, but the gold is also much better to have in your deck.

[RisingJaguar]

Situation 2: Trashing 3$ into 5$ with Farmland.

Let's say that 3$ is a Silver (it can be better, it can be worse, but let's say it's Silver). So this is:
Silver + 5$/Gold vs. 2VP + SilveronlywhenyouneedtobuyProvince + 5$. Let's say I don't want to Gold, so this is:
Silver vs. Harem that works only when buing Province and only 1 at a time.
Again - maybe in late midgame, but never at the beggining or at the end.

I am not saying that Farmland is a bad card, I am just saying that its main use is to trash things for greens at the end of the game. When you are trashing with it early, it is mostly bad decision and if in the midgame, you might be right, but you need a very good plan to do so...

Actually the end is probably where its more useful.  Especially in PPR situations, buying farmland and using a $3 (lets say silver again) to become a duchy.  One you don't waste $8 on a duchy, and two you jump forward 2VP assuming OP gets a duchy as well. 

I agree its a bad card, but it has its uses.  The original post about trashing the estate (presumably early in the game), is not one of them.  Unless its silk road/gardens.

[DrHades]

I am just saying that its main use is to trash things for greens at the end of the game.

Actually the end is probably where its more useful.

Am I missing something or did you just corrected me by saying the same thing?

[RisingJaguar]

I am just saying that its main use is to trash things for greens at the end of the game.

Actually the end is probably where its more useful.

Am I missing something or did you just corrected me by saying the same thing?

Again - maybe in late midgame, but never at the beggining or at the end.

I guess I just misunderstood, a little misleading though. 

[DrHades]

I am just saying that its main use is to trash things for greens at the end of the game.

Actually the end is probably where its more useful.

Am I missing something or did you just corrected me by saying the same thing?

Again - maybe in late midgame, but never at the beggining or at the end.

I guess I just misunderstood, a little misleading though.

I was refering to a situation where you trash a 3$ action/Silver into a 5$ action, which really is stupid in the endgame, because you wanna Duchy instead and thus getting 5VP...but I am sorry, it was a bit misleading...

[WallyNate]

on a related note to the one about the trust steed/lab/shanty town comparison.

situation: bought a lab in a kingdom with only non-terminals.
what you think you've done: bought a power 5 cost card
what you've actually done bought a shanty town

situation: Made the above argument.
what you think you've done: Totally dissed Lab
what you've actually done: Made a good case for buying a single shanty town in such a deck

[Davio]

Situation: Bought lots of Cartographers
What you think you've done: Able to sift through your bad cards, playing only good cards
What you've actually done: Grouped your bad cards together so you still have to play them

Cartographer is kind of trappy to me, since I see a lot of players overinvesting in it and forgetting to actually buy those good cards.

Oh, and it takes forever to resolve of course.