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[thespaceinvader]

Develop Gold into King's Court and Hunting Party and put them on your deck.

You meant KC/Mountebank, right?

[Tahtweasel]

I thought about it, but in a game where Mountebank exists, I can't see myself ever purchasing Develop.

[RisingJaguar]

Develop Gold into King's Court and Hunting Party and put them on your deck.

You meant KC/Mountebank, right?

Well develop is better suited for KC/HP as opposed to KC/mountebank because those are deck drawers.  I mean this in the opposite fashion, that decks that draw themselves out lend themselves well for develop now its more likely for develop to be paired with its intended target.  KC/Mountebank may be a little "short-sighted" (although its not bad ).  Think why Courtyard is so competitive in BM, develop has the power (if there's proper $3/5, $4/6, $5/7) combos.  So develop gets bonuses in deck drawers because 1. It has more cards to choose from.  2. Sets up next turn (not many cards can do this for deck drawers). 

Probably $3/5 is best as its not overpowering enough that develop is an afterthought, but strong enough to be considered. (ie. KC/HP, probably would just skip the develop altogether).  It can't also be something that runs out quickly, like hunting party, or FV/torturer, because its probably not worth your time or risk to try that as they run out SO quickly.  Think something like stables/silver, cartographer/wishing well, Crossroads/silk road.  Things that are more subtle but have real synergy together. 

Overall, Develop definitely has untapped potential here.  Either because the setups are so intricate or future expansions will significantly alter the card.  Not many cards get better with future expansions, this is probably one of the few. 

[chwhite]

Overall, Develop definitely has untapped potential here.  Either because the setups are so intricate or future expansions will significantly alter the card.  Not many cards get better with future expansions, this is probably one of the few. 

Plenty of cards get better with future expansions.  Village, for instance.

[DStu]

I don't think it can be a great card, but it is can be a combo-enabler, and I think if one sees it as this, it is most likely to spot when it is good. And in this cases, it can be really good.  The point is, you just can't write down the card it combos with, because every combo with Development is a 3-card combo obviously.
But every time you need or want to bring two cards together, it greatly helps when you can top-deck them.  That's every Village/Smithy engine, that's KC+non-terminal draw, that's non-drawing Village/Libraryesque.
So if you think about playing an engine like that, and Develop is on the board it doesn't hurt to look if your engine-parts are $2 apart, in which case Develop suddenly becomes a very interesting card.  You plan to draw your deck anyway, so just buy one ($x+$y)/2 - card, draw you're deck and develop it to the top-decked start of your engine.  Once the engine is running, Develop helps to bring the parts together, and the engine helps to bring Develop and its target together.  Of course that's kind of niche, every one of them is a 3-card-combo, (and maybe some additional +buy would also be nice) but there are some of them:

(plain) Village - Wharf/Margrave/Council Room/Rabble/Torturer
($4) Villages - Nobles
KC - Lab/HP/Govenour/(Minion/Market/Highway/...)
Festival/Watchtower
Fishing Village/Library
Warehouse/Library (kind of, with some other village-support)

So that's one "big" chunk of sets where you can apply Develops usefullness somehow almost increases like Outpost's.

[RisingJaguar]

Overall, Develop definitely has untapped potential here.  Either because the setups are so intricate or future expansions will significantly alter the card.  Not many cards get better with future expansions, this is probably one of the few. 

Plenty of cards get better with future expansions.  Village, for instance.

Boy that chancellor is looking mighty strong now! All those fools trash talking that card didn't see it coming

In all seriousness, I think develop will be middle-ish tier in a year, when there's more cards and people stop seeing it as a early trasher.  Unique cards usually have a place in dominion even if it is not consistently strong. 

[Zaphod]

Typically, Develop works better once you have higher-priced cards in your hand, and only then if there's a good combo available.  If, say, you can trash a Gold and gain a King's Court and a Wharf, then put them atop the draw pile, that may be very useful.  As an early-game trasher, though, it's terrible.

I like the Scheme/Develop combo.  You play Scheme, Develop a card into two cards, top-deck them, then use Scheme to top-deck the Develop.  You are therefore drawing Develop with more expensive cards.  Use Develop to gain additional Schemes, so you can keep the chain going, and you can build an army of powerful actions in a relatively short time.

[glennC]

It reminds me a little bit about remake.  At first, theory didn't think that highly of remake.

Then everybody started figuring out that turning Estates into silvers leads to a powerful start.  Now remake is a mid to top tier card.

I don't think Develop is as strong as remake.  Develop depends highly on:
A- Having a weak board, where something like develop/baron/market is a dominant strategy.  (But maybe I am wrong here.)
B- Having top-tier develop combinations on the board.  Kings Court, Border Village, Scheme + strong $5 card, Treasure map + haven, etc. etc.
C- Alternate victory cards / spam strategies.  Maybe people will figure out strategies where you spam develops and quickly force a 3-pile ending with a $4 Victory card, $2 pile depleted, etc.

[LastFootnote]

I'm starting to really like Develop in games with Curse-giving cards, for a bunch of reasons.

First and most importantly, it allows you to over-invest in Curse-givers, knowing that you can get a nice $5/$3 or $6/$4 pair of cards on your deck once the Curses run out. I've been testing this out by buying one more Curse-giver than I normally would in games with Develop. Three Young Witches or 2 Sea Hags, for instance. Then I buy the Develop(s) after a shuffle or two.

Second, the Curses slow down the game so that there's much more 'mid-game', which is when Develop really shines. Early game you don't have enough $4/$5 cards to trash and late game you want Victory cards, but not on your deck.

Third, it can trash Curses. "Now hold on!" I hear you cry. "Develop is a terrible Curse trasher. It lets you trash Curses one at a time for no benefit." That's true. However, I've learned the hard way that in a super-slow game with lots of early cursing, it beats not being able to trash them at all.

What it really boils down to is that in this sort of game, Develop nearly always has something pertinent to trash (either a high-priced card that's outlived its usefulness or a Curse).

On a side note, I think Develop/Cache might actually be decent on this kind of board. Usually it's not worth the Coppers, but in a slow game that's likely to end on piles, putting a Cache and a Silver-equivalent on your deck gets you a decent shot at a Province next turn and the Coppers that go into your discard pile help you buy more Duchies as the game wears on.

[Glooble]

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/15/game-20120215-133452-21112bc1.html

Made good use of it in this game when I randomly transitioned into a Silk Roads rush - turning fives into Silk Roads and Nobles and silvers int Silk Roads and Estates was pretty nice.

[verikt]

I happen to like develop in some cases. Trash with mint, gain grand market walled village, trash a peddler, gain bank plat. Trash gold into treasury forge, (just played that game)and when you finished getting rid of your crap trash forge back into prov gold. My opponent was playing swindler swindler and I killed him. I think it's underrated in many cases. It's not good as an opening trash(certainly not as good as chapel or remake) but it can keep doubling good cards. How about trashing silver for conspirator native village or crossroads?

[ednever]

After reading this thread a while I finally played a game where I thought I could use develop: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201203/23/game-20120323-131517-57e6f2bf.html

Really fun. I used Spice Merchants (2) to kill all my coppers and Develops to turn Estates into Tournaments. When my opponent picked up a province (early - trying to match with his tournaments) I turned my tournaments and Spice Merchants into Fishing Villages (and some Develops) and Cities. I quickly emptied the FV pile (in my action phase) and had powered up Cities - and it was only a turn or two later I emptied the City pile (8 cities for me).

My opponent picked up a possession, but never got a chance to use it. I used Develops to turn my Courtyards into Develops to end the game on piles and then picked up a Colony to win 17-12.


It's really fun to find ways to win using generally under-powered cards. Thanks for all the comments on this thread,

Ed

[J.Co.]

A cool game I played recently involved using Develop to obtain other Develops. If there isn't anything that powerful at a certain cost point, you can Develop a card to prepare for next price tier without slowing/clogging your deck (probably best done early mid-game, by third or fourth shuffle). I agree with what's been said, this card is underrated. Once people start seeing how best to use it, I think it will make for some awesome plays. And if you can manage to consistently draw it in a village/Smithy-type combo, you can almost always play it to guarantee having a combo ready to go on top of your deck.

[Asklepios]

After reading this thread a while I finally played a game where I thought I could use develop: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201203/23/game-20120323-131517-57e6f2bf.html

Really fun. I used Spice Merchants (2) to kill all my coppers and Develops to turn Estates into Tournaments. When my opponent picked up a province (early - trying to match with his tournaments) I turned my tournaments and Spice Merchants into Fishing Villages (and some Develops) and Cities. I quickly emptied the FV pile (in my action phase) and had powered up Cities - and it was only a turn or two later I emptied the City pile (8 cities for me).

My opponent picked up a possession, but never got a chance to use it. I used Develops to turn my Courtyards into Develops to end the game on piles and then picked up a Colony to win 17-12.


It's really fun to find ways to win using generally under-powered cards. Thanks for all the comments on this thread,

Ed

Out of curiosity, if you possess someone, and gain a card to the top of their deck, when you "gain instead" do you gain those cards to the top of your deck or just to your discard like a normal gain?

[AJD]

Out of curiosity, if you possess someone, and gain a card to the top of their deck, when you "gain instead" do you gain those cards to the top of your deck or just to your discard like a normal gain?

The second one.

[GendoIkari]

Out of curiosity, if you possess someone, and gain a card to the top of their deck, when you "gain instead" do you gain those cards to the top of your deck or just to your discard like a normal gain?

That all depends. If you feed a blue dog, will you then take it for a walk?

[ednever]

Another fun Develop game. It may not have been played perfectly and DEvelop may not have been the dominate strategy, but it was pretty fun to use:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/11/game-20120411-114105-ec085d6f.html

$7 Forge
$6 Gold
$5 Highway/Montbanke
$4 Salvager

One of the issues with Salvager is you often run out of stuff to Salvage. With Develop stuff keeps multiplying.

Bought a bunch of Salvagers (as did my opponent). Develop a $5 into a Gold and Salvager that you can Salvage the next turn. Or Develop Golds into Forge/Montebanks - Forge the Montebank next turn into a Province with a Silver. Or Develop a Forge into a Province and a Gold. If you end up with a Salvager in your hand that turn you can Salvage the Province and start running down the pile.

I'm beginning to like the card more and more on the right boards.

Ed

[DStu]

Develop -> KC-Govenor ftw: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120412-234948-6bd50e32.html

9 turns 5 Provinces, somehow helped by opponents Governors for free Develops, and the 5/2 with Cellar. Turn 7 Develop Gold for topdeck KC+Gov leads to turn 8 develop 2 Golds for topdecked KCKCGovGov leads to explosion.

[Dagenais]

Out of curiosity, if you possess someone, and gain a card to the top of their deck, when you "gain instead" do you gain those cards to the top of your deck or just to your discard like a normal gain?

That all depends. If you feed a blue dog, will you then take it for a walk?

That's going to dog Donald X. for the rest of his life, isn't it?

[gman314]

A Develop combo I saw once and really liked was developing a gold into a Duchy and Expand. The next turn, the Duchy can be expanded into a Province. (And then, when your Expand and Develop run into each other you develop the Expand into a Province and a Gold)

[chwhite]

Out of curiosity, if you possess someone, and gain a card to the top of their deck, when you "gain instead" do you gain those cards to the top of your deck or just to your discard like a normal gain?

That all depends. If you feed a blue dog, will you then take it for a walk?

That's going to dog Donald X. for the rest of his life, isn't it?

He has to be feeling pretty blue about it.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Out of curiosity, if you possess someone, and gain a card to the top of their deck, when you "gain instead" do you gain those cards to the top of your deck or just to your discard like a normal gain?

That all depends. If you feed a blue dog, will you then take it for a walk?

That's going to dog Donald X. for the rest of his life, isn't it?

He has to be feeling pretty blue about it.

It also feeds a lot of bad puns...

...too much?

[Voltgloss]

Here's another example of "fun with Develop."  Key combos were (1) trashing Ironworks into Duchy/Develop; (2) trashing Duchy into Grand Market/Ironworks; and (3) as gman314 pointed out, trashing a $6 (here, Hoard) into Expand/Duchy, leading to Province next turn.

Grand Market and Expand have already been identified as good Develop targets, but to my eye another lesson here is that Develop likes a cantrip $4 - so you can stuff your deck with good Develop fodder without clogging.  Ironworks was of course perfect because it ALSO breeds more fodder.

Also interesting to note that the game three-piled on Develops, Duchies, and cantrip $4 fodder.  Might "Develop rush" be a feasible strategy on boards with cantrip $4 support?  (Note that, even pursuing this strategy, I still didn't open Develop - you need a decent chance of hitting fodder first.  I did, however, buy two Develops on turns 3/4.)