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Author Topic: A mixture of cards that use Season, Debt, Gathering and interactive Durations  (Read 1542 times)

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tristan

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Baths is the non-perma-duration version of Pirate Hideout, a mixture between Oasis and Baker, combined with a Gathering mechanism.
I am not sure about it yet as there is a good reason non-terminal Gathering cards should not exist. To illustrate this via the extreme case, if you had 5 Baths in the top 10 cards of your deck and were able to play 5 Baths you would be able to net 3 Coin tokens and 4 VPs.



Charon is another problem card as the random discard attack could be too swingy. I don't worry about the non-terminal VP token gaining, it takes some time until a pile is empty and this card does nothing for your economy so you will probably only spice your deck with one or two of them in the later middlegame. For the same reason I don't worry about pins either, they are theoretically possible but as this card does nothing for your economy they are extremely hard to set up. I wouldn't use this in a 4P game though but nobody with some sanity left plays 4P Dominion anyway (well, I did once with Ambassador in the Kingdom and got my sanity back afterwards).




Dwarven Miner is a fairly straghtforward investment idea. First I wanted it to net you Coin tokens but this seemed too strong. Now you have to pick a turn in which you have an extra Buy if you call this with more than 8 tokens on it.



Farm is an implementation of marketsquire's idea's of durations that stay in play for several turns. With several of them in play you can easily build up an engine early on but later in the game it remains a mere Necropolis.
It could be too strong and the trigger might have to be tuned down from 5 Actions to 4 or the wording could be changed from Actions played to Actions in play.



Scholar is a variant of Waterfall and avoids the problem of the overpowered Double Lab with Debt costs which occured, according to DXV, while playtesting Empires not so much via the small liability but via being very expensive early and only becoming mildly cheaper, Peddler style, over the course of the game. Price is not fixed yet and might have to be changed to 13D.



Monastery is obviously a Fugitive variant. It has been around for quite some time but I was never satisified with it. The first version also discarded before drawing but that was too strong. The negative coin respectively now "take 1 Debt" made it too weak. The third version is a mixture between the previous two versions, implemented via the Season mechanism.
The wording of the Reaction might have to be changed to avoid infinite repetitions. That you can reveal it to several different Victory cards being gained (as opposed to Horse Trader being set aside after the quasi-Lab reaction) is intentional though, making it a potential powerhouse in the endgame or in alt-VP.



Woodlands is an attempt to do a simpler Season-Victory card than the original ones of Asper and Cookielord. It is perhaps a bit bland.



Wine Harvest is based on a playtest version of Patrol

Patrol: This replaces Scout. Pretty directly really; it can also get Curses, and instead of +1 Action it's +3 Cards, and it costs $5 instead of $4. For a while it gave +1 Action and +$1 per different type in your top 3 cards, and only Scouted 3 deep

It makes sense to do this as a Debt card as it very weak early on and only becomes good in the middlegame, once it is more likely that you reveal a variety of types. I considered to do this is a Treasure card and while the differences between a non-terminal virtual coin Action and a Treasure card are not that huge I think that this is more interesting due to the usual Peddler, Conspirator, Tactician, Library combos.



Feudalism could be too strong and delay the game when everbody is trashing their Gold and Provinces near the end of the game.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 01:43:27 pm by tristan »
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ThetaSigma12

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Baths: You do realize there is a Landmark called this? Either way, it looks really cool.

Charon: "Curse into their hand". I'm not a fan of the random discard, or a possible cantrip , but I think it warrants a shot.

Dwarven Miner: "At the start of each of your Clean-up phases" I'd make it use it's own tokens.

Scholar: I don't like it.
 
I like the rest.
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Limetime

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Feudalism looks pretty close to ritual.
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Roadrunner7671

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Charon doesn't encourage the game to end. Get a trashing card of some kind and just play a bunch of Charons for as much VP as you can.
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tristan

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Charon doesn't encourage the game to end. Get a trashing card of some kind and just play a bunch of Charons for as much VP as you can.
Given that Charon does nothing for your economy this is hard to set up. Charon does after all only turn into a cantrip once a pile is empty.
It is something to watch out for and I will of course have to test this in 3P games.
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GendoIkari

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Quote
Charon is another problem card as the random discard attack could be too swingy.

Minion's attack is the same net effect as a random discard; except it provides some extra cycling. Giving a player their -1 card token is very similar as well.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 08:39:00 am by GendoIkari »
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Roadrunner7671

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Charon doesn't encourage the game to end. Get a trashing card of some kind and just play a bunch of Charons for as much VP as you can.
Given that Charon does nothing for your economy this is hard to set up. Charon does after all only turn into a cantrip once a pile is empty.
It is something to watch out for and I will of course have to test this in 3P games.
Couldn't the empty pile easily be the Curses? That's my fear.
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tristan

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8 Debt is roughly similar to 6 Coins and a cantrip VP token gainer is probably a very good 5 and together with the attack even better.
I think that Charon is weak without an empty pile and good once one is empty. Kinda like City. If it turns out to be too strong I gotta get rid of the idea altogether, pricing this at 10D is no way to balance it.
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Scholar seems like a card straight outta Hearthstone. Not sure how I feel about it.

I think Monastery might be a bit weak, but i'm not sure. That's mostly a guess. I'm glad the Seasons mechanic is so popular though!
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loneXolf

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Scholar seems like a card straight outta Hearthstone. Not sure how I feel about it.

I think Monastery might be a bit weak, but i'm not sure. That's mostly a guess. I'm glad the Seasons mechanic is so popular though!

I don't see how Scholar is related to Hearthstone.
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loneXolf

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Baths- Win condition cards are hard to balance. Is it better than going for provinces? Idk.

Charon- "Randomly discard a card" Dislike these types of attacks.

Dwarven Miner- Seems broken since it can gain 4 coins in one round in a 4 player game.

Farm- Weird card, you can get up to four free 4 costs in a mega buy turn with these, however not more than that since you can stop it's own duration effect by playing more than 4 actions. Also the latter half text seems off.

Scholar- Seems meh, you already need a decent engine to buy this at a decent price, and this is just a better lab.

Wine Harvest. The huge coin output range seems off putting, however since +2 coins probably the most common outcome it seems fine, since +1 action +2 coins seems to be around 4 in value idk not too many cards have that effect. Also why not make this a treasure?


« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 03:20:04 pm by loneXolf »
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tristan

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Thanks for catching that; Dwarven Miner should say "your Clean-up phase".
About why Wine Harvest is an Action, read the OP.
About Baths, while it could be overpowered it, or any other Gathering card, is hardly a substitute for greening.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 03:47:54 pm by tristan »
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