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Author Topic: M90: Literature Mafia (Scum wins!)  (Read 154926 times)

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pacovf

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #750 on: December 21, 2016, 10:35:37 am »

I've been re-reading late D1, and the exchange between Eevee and silver, which I'd not really paid attention to before. But given silver's flip and my intervening scum-points for Eevee, I think it's worth a vote: Eevee.

can you point out what, exactly, you are referring to, here?

Re-reading silver had surprised me with how much he's pointing at Eevee, because I hadn't noticed it in amongst all the Calamitas stuff the first time through. Post #508 says that while Eevee isn't a scumread, he'd be an okay lynch. Then at #518 he's got a more emphatic-sounding vote, though again, it's kind of mixed up in all the Calamitas guff. Then at #535 Eevee posts a huge read on silver with a shouty vote at the end. I mean, it's likely he'd be noticing silver's comments more than the rest of us since it's about himself, but still, that's a big case with not a lot holding it up, and then a few posts later gkrieg and LL are also on the wagon.

Oh, and you said I was following the game closely, but the whole time around #567 I was running around like a headless chicken with guests and cakes to bake and my friend's kid to watch and a weekend full of festive choral commitments, so my attention to the game at that crucial point was way lower than I'd liked :-( If I'd been keeping up properly, there's no way I'd have missed the vote-counting error!

So basically you are voting for Eevee because he OMGUSed silver, is what you are saying?

If that is true, you could have picked up on it yesterday. It happened before your party.

Both SA and Lalight are following the game very closely, but I do not know what to think of it. Lalight has been "panicky", SA hasn't done much besides contribute to the theory talk, and do a half-hearted attempt at changing silver's lynch at the end. They said they wanted to lynch Calamitas, though, so hm.

Sorry, fixed.

Even more fixed :-)

...in my defense, this would be a lot easier in my native language. :(

Vig should not have done that. Also, vote: lalight.

Why do you think this?

Also, can we get a readlist from you?

I've explained my original reason for voting for lalight. And it's bad for a vig to kill someone who everyone thinks is town instead of searching for scum.

Two questions:

Are you encouraging the vig to shoot around with abandon?

Are you aware that your (posted) reason to vote for Lalight is probably the flimsiest I've seen in a long while?
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Witherweaver

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #751 on: December 21, 2016, 11:12:55 am »

Vig should not have done that. Also, vote: lalight.

Why do you think this?

Also, can we get a readlist from you?

I've explained my original reason for voting for lalight. And it's bad for a vig to kill someone who everyone thinks is town instead of searching for scum.

Vig shots early are not that great.  Shooting teamlyle is a goodish move here because it prevents us from wasting a day not scumhunting and possibly wasting a lynch.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #752 on: December 21, 2016, 12:01:54 pm »

Vote Count 2.1

LaLight (1): J Reggie
Calamitas (2): teamlyle, Witherweaver
Eevee (2): Robz888, SpaceAnemone

Not voting (5): LaLight, Calamitas, Eevee, mcmcsalot, pacovf

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends December 29, 10pm forum time.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #753 on: December 21, 2016, 12:36:10 pm »

La di da

Vote: Eevee
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #754 on: December 21, 2016, 12:37:22 pm »

La di da

Vote: Eevee

you're doing that again. vote: WW
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #755 on: December 21, 2016, 12:38:24 pm »

People I would lynch today: Calamitas, J Reggie, Eevee.

People I (probably) wouldn't lynch today:  Space, Pacovf, McMc (??)

People I would also lynch today: everyone else
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #756 on: December 21, 2016, 12:58:38 pm »

La di da

Vote: Eevee

you're doing that again. vote: WW

Probably my biggest point of confusion in this game is WW. I do NOT remember him being, uh, silly, and offering little of substance.

I guess this gives me a town read on him, since I mostly remember him as scum and being quite calculated.
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Eevee

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #757 on: December 21, 2016, 01:06:32 pm »

Hey, mini VLA, haven't been reading and might not get to before tomorrow.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #758 on: December 21, 2016, 05:30:25 pm »

This game has three modes: Eevee receiving and rebutting suspicion, Calamitas talking us to death about the setup, and long silence.
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pacovf

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #759 on: December 21, 2016, 05:42:33 pm »

This game has three modes: Eevee receiving and rebutting suspicion, Calamitas talking us to death about the setup, and long silence.

Indeed! I wish SA or J Reggie would answer my questions.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #760 on: December 21, 2016, 05:46:51 pm »

Also, I am starting a V/LA (mostly LA) this Friday afternoon, that will last anywhere from 1 to 3 days, so it would be nice if people started contributing before then.

Like, if you are town, what is your excuse for not being here trying to produce content? Especially after the underwhelming D1 we've had?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #761 on: December 21, 2016, 05:48:15 pm »

Hell, vote: J Reggie, let's give people some motivation.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #762 on: December 21, 2016, 05:57:01 pm »

This game has three modes: Eevee receiving and rebutting suspicion, Calamitas talking us to death about the setup, and long silence.

Indeed! I wish SA or J Reggie would answer my questions.

Sorry.. I was on trains for many hours today, with too flakey a data connection to post anything :-( Now I'm up in Edinburgh, and I should be much less frantically busy now that I'm at the other end of the country to my work and social circles :-)
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #763 on: December 21, 2016, 07:06:38 pm »

So basically you are voting for Eevee because he OMGUSed silver, is what you are saying?

It's not borrowed OMGUS, but I think it's too early in the game (given yesterday's wash-out) for me to build much of a case. Let's start by explaining where my thinking came from, then I'll see whether I can gather things together into something case-shaped.

Relatively early in D1, I'd been town-reading Eevee: he's so nice, so it's hard not to! Then I re-read him in relation to the Eevee-mcmc clash. I still had an omgus vote on mcmc, though I'd developed a slight scum feeling on him as the game progressed a little. Over the course of that re-read, my town-read on Eevee dropped, my scum-read on mcmc diminished. The things mcmc had pointed out about Eevee's behaviour sensitized me a bit to a couple of things. So I was really second-guessing myself at the time on whether or not to find his "everyone agrees with me" attitude manipulative or just generally convivial. That part in particular came from mcmc's comments at #248.

There were several things I wasn't comfortable with in isolation, but during D1, and before the silver flip, it hadn't occurred to me to let them join up as a suspicion. There was the early suggestion of a blanket ban on theory. Now, I've never seen theory talk derail everything as much as it did here D1, so I can see why we don't want that to keep happening. But people being aware of the setup priors and mentioning possible roles/combinations doesn't seem anti-town at all. There's something about the tone of #197 doesn't feel quite right. Too quick to volunteer that he's town and build a big contrast, maybe?

There are a few places where he says or implies not-quite-true things, and then backs down when they're pointed out, like at #212/#220. Also at #249 where he asserts that this game is likely to have more PRs than in Covert Affairs (which is not true), which he backs down at #259 when challenged. There's a comment at #239 where gkrieg asks about the validity of the direction it was going in in the very next post. #253 is very self-aware, and awareness of scum meta is kind of scummy. #309 is quite defensive considering I hadn't voted him at all.

I mean, these are mostly all vague little things, and all from before the silver wagon, but I wasn't paying the right sort of attention at the time. So yeah, I think what I've got here is a suspicion rather than a case, but I'm happy voting for him at the moment.


...in my defense, this would be a lot easier in my native language. :(
I appreciate that you noticed it :-)
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pacovf

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #764 on: December 21, 2016, 07:26:15 pm »

This all makes sense, I think.

Another question, slightly off-topic: how would you say your game has evolved since Newbie Mafia 8?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #765 on: December 22, 2016, 08:52:42 am »

Back!

So basically you are voting for Eevee because he OMGUSed silver, is what you are saying?

It's not borrowed OMGUS, but I think it's too early in the game (given yesterday's wash-out) for me to build much of a case. Let's start by explaining where my thinking came from, then I'll see whether I can gather things together into something case-shaped.

Relatively early in D1, I'd been town-reading Eevee: he's so nice, so it's hard not to! Then I re-read him in relation to the Eevee-mcmc clash. I still had an omgus vote on mcmc, though I'd developed a slight scum feeling on him as the game progressed a little. Over the course of that re-read, my town-read on Eevee dropped, my scum-read on mcmc diminished. The things mcmc had pointed out about Eevee's behaviour sensitized me a bit to a couple of things. So I was really second-guessing myself at the time on whether or not to find his "everyone agrees with me" attitude manipulative or just generally convivial. That part in particular came from mcmc's comments at #248.

There were several things I wasn't comfortable with in isolation, but during D1, and before the silver flip, it hadn't occurred to me to let them join up as a suspicion. There was the early suggestion of a blanket ban on theory. Now, I've never seen theory talk derail everything as much as it did here D1, so I can see why we don't want that to keep happening. But people being aware of the setup priors and mentioning possible roles/combinations doesn't seem anti-town at all. There's something about the tone of #197 doesn't feel quite right. Too quick to volunteer that he's town and build a big contrast, maybe?

There are a few places where he says or implies not-quite-true things, and then backs down when they're pointed out, like at #212/#220. Also at #249 where he asserts that this game is likely to have more PRs than in Covert Affairs (which is not true), which he backs down at #259 when challenged. There's a comment at #239 where gkrieg asks about the validity of the direction it was going in in the very next post. #253 is very self-aware, and awareness of scum meta is kind of scummy. #309 is quite defensive considering I hadn't voted him at all.

I mean, these are mostly all vague little things, and all from before the silver wagon, but I wasn't paying the right sort of attention at the time. So yeah, I think what I've got here is a suspicion rather than a case, but I'm happy voting for him at the moment.


...in my defense, this would be a lot easier in my native language. :(
I appreciate that you noticed it :-)
Should I answer these points? Serious question, it's quite a bit of work for both of us to quote things back and forth - would it be worth it? I don't think you are mischaracterizing me or anything like that. Changing my mind stuff I think is a new point at least - I don't quite see why you think that's scummy? I'm putting my thoughts out there, of course very happy to change my mind when I was wrong. Fwiw, I don't think anyone's opinions on theory differ when they are scum or town. Always irks me when someone gets suspected for being wrong about theory - more so if it's me! ( :) )



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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #766 on: December 22, 2016, 08:54:43 am »

I'm going up north for christmas, so this is my last day with computer access. Plenty and plenty of time to phone post though, it's an 800 mile drive (and I can't drive so my only responsibility is to spot the reindeer).

I'll try to get some rereads in today, because those are difficult to to from phone.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #767 on: December 22, 2016, 09:00:01 am »

I think in the last game where I was mafia, I was suspected way less than I would have expected because I thought I played scummy. Now I'm town, and at first I was so relieved because it would be much less stressful, but now I'm suspected way more than I was, and it kind of keeps coming and I don't know what to do.

Of course I lead the charge in yesterday's mislynch, so I guess it's warranted and I should have known. I really really believed in the case, though. I think scum had it kind of easy with calamitas dominating the discussion, me leading a mislynch wagon and almost every townie agreeing it was a good idea (with teamlyle being the alternative, also town-aligned target).

Scum could really be in the shadows here, they haven't really had to lead us astray (unless calamitas is scum), because we've done it to ourselves in spades.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #768 on: December 22, 2016, 09:01:32 am »

This all makes sense, I think.

Another question, slightly off-topic: how would you say your game has evolved since Newbie Mafia 8?

Hmm.. It's an odd question. NM8 was about my 4th game, I think, and I was playing up my newbie innocence to a big degree to score easy town-points, so it's not a great baseline if you're asking how my game has developed overall. I've been trying to be more aware of the awkward things I do (like self-conscious segues) that get me easily scum-read. In Covert Affairs, Robz came out with "Summaries are scummaries" in response to my reads list, and I rather took that to heart, so I probably post fewer lists than I used to. Ironically, Robz turned out to be scum there :-( The things I notice and make personal notes on in a text buffer alongside the game have probably changed a bit, too, including things like voting patterns, because being scum made me realise how exposed it feels to join a wagon when you already know the person is innocent.

I'm still just as stubborn in my belief that the use of smilies isn't necessarily scummy, though :-)

Does that answer your question?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #769 on: December 22, 2016, 09:07:09 am »

I would have read SA as town in M89 (had I not been scum with them), but I do think they look somewhat more.. relaxed here? Might be a product of this game being way less active, but I would almost say they are leading the town here, whereas in that game they were definitely more of a hang-back presence. Feels towny, especially because their scumhunting feels natural, asking probing questions and pointing things out rather than forcing narratives and twisting things.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #770 on: December 22, 2016, 09:49:32 am »

This all makes sense, I think.

Another question, slightly off-topic: how would you say your game has evolved since Newbie Mafia 8?

Hmm.. It's an odd question. NM8 was about my 4th game, I think, and I was playing up my newbie innocence to a big degree to score easy town-points, so it's not a great baseline if you're asking how my game has developed overall. I've been trying to be more aware of the awkward things I do (like self-conscious segues) that get me easily scum-read. In Covert Affairs, Robz came out with "Summaries are scummaries" in response to my reads list, and I rather took that to heart, so I probably post fewer lists than I used to. Ironically, Robz turned out to be scum there :-( The things I notice and make personal notes on in a text buffer alongside the game have probably changed a bit, too, including things like voting patterns, because being scum made me realise how exposed it feels to join a wagon when you already know the person is innocent.

I'm still just as stubborn in my belief that the use of smilies isn't necessarily scummy, though :-)

Does that answer your question?

Yes, thanks.

What's up with the glacial pace of this game? Is it because the holidays are around the corner? Morose town is losing town! I understand that mcmc is in his honeymoon (and I assume his priorities point towards the new partner [terrible choice!]), but like that is only one person. It's gotten to the point that I wouldn't actually mind having a lurker lynch today. So yeah, J Reggie. Eevee would be my second choice, then Lalight, but I don't want J Reggie to get away with so little output. Calamitas and WW are also pretty low in fontent, but well I think they are town. It would be mighty nice if they came in and started "leading" the way a bit!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #771 on: December 22, 2016, 10:00:51 am »

Well, WW has posted a brief read list, but it's sad that is supposed to be enough in this game. Robz is present, but not really generating as much content as his post count would suggest.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #772 on: December 22, 2016, 10:09:18 am »

I'm V/LA for 24 hrs
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #773 on: December 22, 2016, 04:33:27 pm »

re-read in order tomorrow, will have plenty of time during the weekend. Sorry for being so inactive the past few days
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #774 on: December 22, 2016, 06:42:37 pm »

Vote Count 2.2

LaLight (1): J Reggie
Calamitas (1): teamlyle
Eevee (3): Robz888, SpaceAnemone, Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): Lalight 
J Reggie (1): pacovf

Not voting (3): Calamitas, Eevee, mcmcsalot,
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends December 29, 10pm forum time.
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