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Author Topic: M90: Literature Mafia (Scum wins!)  (Read 154822 times)

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silverspawn

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #400 on: December 16, 2016, 10:17:15 am »

I think the damage done by lynching town!restless spirit is probably around 40% as high as of lynching town!anyone else. With those odds, the expected value of lynching teamlyle is probably higher than that of lynching anyone else.

Calamitas

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #401 on: December 16, 2016, 10:27:53 am »

hm, not in favor of that, I don't think.

But you are in favour of reducing the number of players required for a lynch without reducing the number of scums out there, thereby increasing scum's ability to mislynch? Because that's the worrying side-effect of lynching off teamlyle like that, instead of hunting for actual scum.

hmmmm

that is putting it negatively. I don't think this view is correct, or for that matter WW's.

Scum wins by town losing the majority, not by scum winning the majority. The latter takes one more dead townie than the former. Since restless spirit only helps scum with the latter, as long as there is just one restless spirit, it is pretty close to creating an immortal town IC – who is not able to chat with us, though (LaLight seems to ignore/not know this).
Well, we could set up some kind of morse-code to circumvent the bloded part.
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #402 on: December 16, 2016, 10:29:45 am »

Yeah, so I completely agree with LaLight and silverspawn about lynching teamlyle. The thing is, okay, sure, we don't want to lynch him just because he's claimed Restless Spirit. But I was suspicious of him anyway, and his claim mitigates the downside of mislynching him, which is pretty key here.

It would be a bad if it totally shut down our scumhunting or short-circuited Day 1, but I think we've had at least a semi-okay Day 1 so far. Some other wagons, some other things.

But we do need some key questions answered about the Restless Spirit: Does his vote actually count? Is he part of the total player number still in the game? Oh, and something I just thought of, does he get to join the Speccy QT?
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Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #403 on: December 16, 2016, 10:31:11 am »

Well, we could set up some kind of morse-code to circumvent the bloded part.

We could NOT do this, I'm pretty sure. Think it violates the rules against cryptography. Be careful, people. We don't want to repeat the end of Mafia 89.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Witherweaver

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #404 on: December 16, 2016, 10:32:01 am »

hm, not in favor of that, I don't think.

But you are in favour of reducing the number of players required for a lynch without reducing the number of scums out there, thereby increasing scum's ability to mislynch? Because that's the worrying side-effect of lynching off teamlyle like that, instead of hunting for actual scum.

hmmmm

that is putting it negatively. I don't think this view is correct, or for that matter WW's.

Scum wins by town losing the majority, not by scum winning the majority. The latter takes one more dead townie than the former. Since restless spirit only helps scum with the latter, as long as there is just one restless spirit, it is pretty close to creating an immortal town IC – who is not able to chat with us, though (LaLight seems to ignore/not know this).
Well, we could set up some kind of morse-code to circumvent the bloded part.

No, we couldn't.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #405 on: December 16, 2016, 10:34:18 am »

Basically, I'm saying that if you think teamlyle is more likely to be town than the average other player, then you shouldn't lynch him, even though the downside is mitigated.  Lynching is about providing information. 
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Calamitas

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #406 on: December 16, 2016, 10:35:07 am »

hm, not in favor of that, I don't think.

But you are in favour of reducing the number of players required for a lynch without reducing the number of scums out there, thereby increasing scum's ability to mislynch? Because that's the worrying side-effect of lynching off teamlyle like that, instead of hunting for actual scum.

hmmmm

that is putting it negatively. I don't think this view is correct, or for that matter WW's.

Scum wins by town losing the majority, not by scum winning the majority. The latter takes one more dead townie than the former. Since restless spirit only helps scum with the latter, as long as there is just one restless spirit, it is pretty close to creating an immortal town IC – who is not able to chat with us, though (LaLight seems to ignore/not know this).
Well, we could set up some kind of morse-code to circumvent the bloded part.

No, we couldn't.
Why couldn't we?
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

Witherweaver

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #407 on: December 16, 2016, 10:36:17 am »

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Calamitas

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #408 on: December 16, 2016, 10:37:20 am »

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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

Calamitas

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #409 on: December 16, 2016, 10:38:55 am »

For example we may ask him whether he agrees with a certain statement. To answer we tell him that he should vote:nolynch and unvote in sucession to agree and vote:poster unvote to disagree. Why should something like thay violate any given rules?
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

Witherweaver

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #410 on: December 16, 2016, 10:39:57 am »

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pacovf

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #411 on: December 16, 2016, 10:40:19 am »

unvote for now.

Restless spirit or not, we should not lynch town. Like, duh. And right now I think teamlyle's claim is evidence in favour of him being town. Still need to think about it a bit more though.


I am confused by silver's analysis of the role though, it should not affect when scum wins, I assume their win condition involves only living players, not total number of votes. Faust, can you confirm that?
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Witherweaver

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #412 on: December 16, 2016, 10:40:28 am »

And the general Mafia rules for this forum.
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Calamitas

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #413 on: December 16, 2016, 10:45:08 am »

Maybe just read this:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Restless_Spirit
The pm explicitly states that votes are made in the thread and I don't see any conflicts in regard to the general rules.
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #414 on: December 16, 2016, 10:47:10 am »

Maybe just read this:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Restless_Spirit
The pm explicitly states that votes are made in the thread and I don't see any conflicts in regard to the general rules.

You might be right, but we should really get explicit approval from faust before we go about setting up such a system.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Witherweaver

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #415 on: December 16, 2016, 10:48:50 am »

What's the point in having a premise of preventing communication if you're allowed to circumvent it?  Why isn't this obvious?
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Witherweaver

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #416 on: December 16, 2016, 10:50:08 am »

And it seems to clearly fall under the cryptography umbrella, even if rudimentary. 
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Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #417 on: December 16, 2016, 10:50:15 am »

Teamlyle, can you explain why you decided to claim with so little pressure on you? I will say that it seems premature claims tend to come from town. That's at least been my recent experience.

I suppose teamlyle could have known that if he has savvy partners. Certainly the RS claim, which pradoxically may make people want to lynch you more, is sort of a good claim for WIFOM. I.e., "If I was scum, why would I claim something that makes you want to kill me more?"

Then again, it's a cool, rare role... I could see being excited to claim it, just because it's cool. That could be the source of teamlyle's over eagerness.

Yeah, I guess I'm talking myself into believing it.

Back to Vote: J Reggie
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Calamitas

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #418 on: December 16, 2016, 10:51:56 am »

What's the point in having a premise of preventing communication if you're allowed to circumvent it?  Why isn't this obvious?
It limits communication (read lists, elaborate opinions etc are basically impossible to communicate). Simple things (scuminess, approval, disapproval, yes, no, etc) are absolutely possible.
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

Calamitas

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #419 on: December 16, 2016, 10:52:13 am »

And it seems to clearly fall under the cryptography umbrella, even if rudimentary.
Never ever is that crypto.
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #420 on: December 16, 2016, 10:54:17 am »

And it seems to clearly fall under the cryptography umbrella, even if rudimentary.
Never ever is that crypto.

We have run previous games where such a code was considered to be illegal under the cryptography prohibition. We'll need faust's confirmation here either way.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Calamitas

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #421 on: December 16, 2016, 10:56:18 am »

And it seems to clearly fall under the cryptography umbrella, even if rudimentary.
Never ever is that crypto.

We have run previous games where such a code was considered to be illegal under the cryptography prohibition. We'll need faust's confirmation here either way.
Well, that is insane but okay. It is just as much crypto as saying "If you approve say yes". Or "If you actually think they are scummy vote them".
But yeah, nothing against asking for faust's approval.
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

Witherweaver

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #422 on: December 16, 2016, 10:56:29 am »

Well, we could set up some kind of morse-code to circumvent the bloded part.

And it seems to clearly fall under the cryptography umbrella, even if rudimentary.
Never ever is that crypto.

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Calamitas

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #423 on: December 16, 2016, 10:58:40 am »

Well, we could set up some kind of morse-code to circumvent the bloded part.

And it seems to clearly fall under the cryptography umbrella, even if rudimentary.
Never ever is that crypto.
Morse-code yes, might agree to that. The simpler structure I provided in #409 clearly doesn't though. Thought you were referencing this pattern when saying it might fall under the crypro rules.
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #424 on: December 16, 2016, 11:02:36 am »

And it seems to clearly fall under the cryptography umbrella, even if rudimentary.
Never ever is that crypto.

We have run previous games where such a code was considered to be illegal under the cryptography prohibition. We'll need faust's confirmation here either way.
Well, that is insane but okay. It is just as much crypto as saying "If you approve say yes". Or "If you actually think they are scummy vote them".
But yeah, nothing against asking for faust's approval.

I think what happened was one of the early games, Mafia 14 or some such, had a scum PR that turned people into chickens who could only say chicken, and so we set up some elaborate thing to make "chicken! chicken!" its own language so we could get around the restriction, and it was totally do-able but really annoying, so we decided never again with that.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.
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