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Author Topic: M90: Literature Mafia (Scum wins!)  (Read 154804 times)

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mcmcsalot

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #350 on: December 15, 2016, 12:18:04 pm »

true...

I was mostly putting myself in his situation. If I said "I'll sheep the next person who votes!" and then someone votes for me, if I am town, I don't think I'll sheep him. if I'm scum, on the other hand, I might feel pressured not to appear cowardly.
But generally saying "I will sheep the next person that votes" isn't that sensible and rather RVS like in the first place. Following through isn't indicative I would say.

I like both these thoughts but I am more on silver side. I think cal has a point that the statement itself isn't that sensible, but I think that just adds the the scumminess of the situation. Why does town!jreggie post that in the first place. So that brings me back to the most reasonable explaination for jreggie's posts is what robz said, he's scum trying to blend in and just being bad at it.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #351 on: December 15, 2016, 12:24:43 pm »

Did you get what you wanted out of responses to this question in the end?
Depends. I'd say no – the reasons provided were okay, I was more hoping for really bad ones to find scum that way. But I got what I asked for.
Hmm.

gkrieg or WW didn't answer you at all, LL did, and Robz gave a bonus comment even though he wasn't voting for me.

I actually appreciated the question, because I was interested myself, but now I kind of feel this scummy from silver, like he wasn't actually interested in the answers.. because he knows all the alignments already?

I was thinking this as well. Though I think this gives me a stronger town read on spaceanemone then a scum read on silver.
How so? I don't follow.
I can easily believe town!silver just wasn't that invested in the question as he has explained and was kinda looking for a specific thing(a bad answer). But the fact that spaceanemone brought it up and questioned silver about it read very town to me.

Baisically I'm happier spaceanemone brought it up than I am suspicious of silvers answers.
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Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

faust

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #352 on: December 15, 2016, 01:04:09 pm »

Vote Count 1.3

mcmcsalot (2): Eevee, pacovf
Eevee (3): mcmcsalot, gkrieg13, LaLight
J Reggie (3): Robz888, Witherweaver, silverspawn
pacovf (2): SpaceAnemone, J Reggie

Not Voting (2): Calamitas, teamlyle

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends December 18 at 4 am forum time.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #353 on: December 15, 2016, 01:07:20 pm »

I think I prefer

Vote: Eevee
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #354 on: December 15, 2016, 01:14:49 pm »

I just reread WW, I don't think I found a single read on anyone, unless you count unexplained votes. Do you have anything other than me, Robz and J Reggie looking scummy (or any reasons for those reads)?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #355 on: December 15, 2016, 01:28:53 pm »

I just reread WW, I don't think I found a single read on anyone, unless you count unexplained votes. Do you have anything other than me, Robz and J Reggie looking scummy (or any reasons for those reads)?

Your posts seem like a lot of words without a lot of stuff, and most things by way of reads are defending other people, or at least criticizing people's votes or suspicions of said former people, which is generally the easiest kind of thing to post.  I'm not sure you actually find anyone scummy, except apparently McMc, which I don't really see.

J Reggie was for his weird unvote. 

I don't actually remember what it was about Robz.. oh, something with his posts regarding Claimgate feeling forced.

J Reggie I actually think is townier for his "I'll sheep anyone" thing.. McMc looks town. (I don't think I've ever seen scum McMc.)
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #356 on: December 15, 2016, 01:34:59 pm »

@Calamitas's latest, too many quotes:


I didn't mean to imply you are very bad, in fact I quite like your bayesian approach. :)

But the fact remains, even though day 1's often suck, there needs to be posting, or we'd just lynch someone at random (say the guy with the smallest post count..)

I too hate trying to draw conclusions from incomplete information, and having to appear more convinced than you actually are, but it's a part of the game. Sometimes, by sheer luck or good scumhunting, we actually do end up building a day 1 wagon on someone who later flips scum. The early interactions can be very illuminating in those cases, but they don't exist if you just don't post at all until there is something more substantial.
But I cannot contribute any reads if I don't have any. I analyze posts by asking myself the question "Is this post more likely to come from scum!X or from town!X". The answer to this question is usually "no, but the invert doesn't apply as well" or just "cannot tell, know to little about X to evaluate that". Therefore I usually contribute in regard to specific issues or things like setup analysis D1. I just don't have anything more to offer.
The "criticize other players voteing reasons" is my solution to this problem - it's day 1 and it's near impossible to actually catch anyone, I don't want to fake conviction I don't have, but pointing out when others assign alignment-relevancy to things I don't see having it is the one thing I think I can actually form strong opinions about day 1.
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pacovf

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #357 on: December 15, 2016, 06:31:03 pm »

Let's see what comes out of a (10 page already) reread. The next part are mostly rambling notes, they are more for me than for other people, but you might find it interesting.

J Reggie comes out claiming non-tracker, silver (and I) votes for him because of it.

Eevee mentions that it's better not to make setup discussion (because town can PR-slip). Robz calls him out on it. Then mcmc votes for him

gkrieg mentions this is the first 9++ setup in which he isn't mafia, but apparently it's not true. (J Reggie calls him out, votes for him later)

ww "claims" PGO. Eevee and Robz believe him. Then ww says he was joking. Robz votes for him out of that (annoyed).

...J Reggie votes for Robz out of nowhere "because you're scum with Eevee." (no idea what to think of this)

mcmc: "Scum shaming just about everyone not voting witherweaver at this point." (he is not voting for ww). Eevee says that it's something that is unlikely to come from scum. Robz and mcmc still against ww, Calamitas points out (after Eevee had already done it) about the pre-game post to show that it was a joke. Teamlyle say it's clearly a joke, I push him about the problem with ww's actions and counterclaims. "that's fair enough I think"

Lalight: clearly a joke, but Robz is pushy, votes for Robz. Eevee sort of agrees. ww votes for Robz. Eevee thinks this isn't scum!Robz, but votes for mcmc. Teamlyle sheeps.

Eevee buddy-buddies, which makes JReggie slightly suspicious. Teamlyle adds another layer of suspicion "but I am not going to change my vote". I mention that ww has refused to clarify his claim, Teamlyle agrees it's bad.

gkrieg votes eevee, no explanation

silver defends eevee buddy-buddying and ww not clarifying

Robz sort of loses it over ww's reactions.

SA defends ww actions, but asks silver what would be scum indicative actions from ww (I think this is towny). silver declines to answer. Robz asks why. gkrieg sort of mysteriously says that ww is only difficult to detect D1

mcmc goes hard against ww, says he is wary of people defending him right out of the gate. when he sees ww clarifying he is not PGO, he votes for Eevee. Rails against silver a bit, then SA explains it away.

eevee thinks mcmc's behaviour is explained by him not reading the thread very closely. gkrieg asks, what does that mean. Probably town, he answers, but can't read mcmc very well.

mcmc makes a case against eevee (personally the only thing I see is eevee potentially trying to use the ww thing to lynch people voting for ww). eevee defends himself, silver votes mcmc over case, calamitas sides with eevee. mcmc says he was only trying to get ww to clarify, wasn't suspicious of him (is that really what happened...?)

J Reggie: "barking up a lot of the wrong trees" (ww and mcmc), wants to lynch Eevee or Robz, makes claim plan

Eevee keeps defending himself, ww and lalight (he's in this game?) vote for him. J Reggie thinks scumminess: Robz > Eevee > mcmc

Robz: mcmc is "winning" the argument, eevee is flailing. mcmc clearly town, eevee maybe scum? then votes J Reggie. // Lots of people saying J Reggie is trying to detract from the current conversation. Gkrieg disagrees scum!JR does that.

silver says eevee is being normal, mcmc is creating things where there is nothing. gkrieg says he is voting eevee because "gut". Lalight gives a uh confusing explanation

all of the sudden JReggie says he "hasn't caught [Robz] for the right reasons". ww votes him.

mcmc concerned about his wagon, asks people why they are voting for him (slightly scummy). Pushes SA, who unvotes

Teamlyle says pressure only on mcmc and eevee, probably both town while scum waits on the sidelines, unvotes (...towny?)

game slows down, eevee asks what's up, JReggie says he will sheep next vote, ww votes for him, so JReggie follows through. silver votes JReggie over self-vote (scummy)

Calamitas does not want to say anything, says he doesn't have enough info (dunno what to think of this). mcmc and eevee call him out on that. Calamitas completely unfazed by the pressure. Robz thinks it's towny.

eevee calls out silver for not trying to get an answer to his question about why people were voting for eevee. silver says he is lazy. votes for gkrieg, then goes back to JR. Calamitas says JR voting for himself is not scummy, it's JR-ish. mcmc disagrees, says JR is just bad at blending in

ww goes back to voting eevee. explains vote when asked. eevee explains himself.




Ok posting this already because computer crashed twice while writing this. Reads coming up.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #358 on: December 15, 2016, 06:31:18 pm »

Huh that was a wall of text, sorry.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #359 on: December 15, 2016, 06:43:19 pm »

So:

Lalight: slightly scummy. Not a lot of content, votes for Robz and eevee in a way that seems too easy compared to what I remember of him.
Calamitas: slight town, unless he keeps doing his thing D2
gkrieg: null. A couple of nice posts, weighted down by a few empty posts that seem to be there to pad up the post count.
witherweaver: meh. Will see.
Robz: I think I lean town, but his frustration could easily be faked. I am mildly suspicious of his defense of mcmc.
SpaceAnemone: after that newbie mafia game, I am instantly suspicious of them forever. Their posts lack substance here, which was what gave them away in that game in the end. So slight scum.
silverspawn: I dislike that his only "strong" read is JReggie self-voting. Slight scum
J Reggie: does seem disjointed. No idea.
teamlyle: very wishy washy. Sending suspicion without committing. scummy.
eevee: under more suspicion than warranted, imho. Makes it hard to tell, because any real content is lost in the scuffle with mcmc. Null.
mcmc: the weird, weird way he handled ww's "claim" is scummy. Never actually voted for ww, and even though he originally had a problem with ww, he redirects his suspicion to other people. Weird, weird. Leaning scum.

I doubt mcmc and Robz are both scum, I don't think they would tie themselves together that much if they were, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of them was scum. The bro-claim complicates things, of course.

Other than that pair, Lalight, teamlyle and SA feel scummy, with silver being next in line. Still out on gkrieg, J Reggie and witherweaver. Which apparently means I am only townreading Eevee, Calamitas, and whoever in Robz/mcmc is not scum. Huh.

Anyway, vote: Teamlyle, most likely scum.
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Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #360 on: December 15, 2016, 06:54:06 pm »

Good effort, pac. I can sheep the Teamlyl vote. He's not giving us much. Vote: teamlyl
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #361 on: December 15, 2016, 07:37:26 pm »

How am I supposed to read people well? Just curious.

Anyway pacovf's vote seems genuine since he actually typed out all that, but it's possible that Robz is trying to get me to get frustrated. And he probably wants me to comment on the typo "teamlyl" which happened twice, so that I look even scummier and less on track.

Vote: Robz
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #362 on: December 15, 2016, 07:46:51 pm »

Also, half of Robz's posts are about WW's "joke."



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"In your face." -Jacob
"Ooh. You just got burned." -Jack
"First place again, disciple!" -Ruikai
"Ugh... 399 cursors. Time to hack!" -Ben
"You gotta do your homework, dude!" -Yul
"Come on man, let the plat play." -The Plat
"It's nice to have a good 'in your face' every once in a while." -Jacob
"OBJECTION!!! The witness is being SUPER gross." -Phoenix Wright
"Milord, Inquisitor Fey sentences that burger to my stomach!" -Maya Fey
"Dude, I only had 4 cups of coffee this morning so I'm gonna crash." -Swi
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"I don't play Monkey vs. Monkey. I'm too busy in pacifist mode, watching my buildings survive and thrive!" -Joshua
Lyle's mom: Are you guys going to play regular Dominion, or are you going to play cheat?
Lyle: Of course we're playing Cheat Dominion!

Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #363 on: December 15, 2016, 08:27:59 pm »

Also, half of Robz's posts are about WW's "joke."

Well, it was a thing worth talking about. You don't have very many posts and most of them say little.
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silverspawn

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #364 on: December 15, 2016, 08:51:36 pm »

Ok posting this already because computer crashed twice while writing this. Reads coming up.

that worries me . . .

pacovf

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #365 on: December 15, 2016, 09:52:28 pm »

What exactly worries you? The state of my computer? Yeah, not entirely sure what's wrong with it. It runs perfectly fine 99% of the time, can run new games no problem... and then crashes when I've got 5 tabs on chrome open. It reboots in less than 30 seconds, so it's not the end of the world, but still.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #366 on: December 15, 2016, 09:53:30 pm »

Teamlyle's reaction is making me feel better about my vote though.
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teamlyle

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #367 on: December 15, 2016, 11:02:48 pm »

Oh, sure. That's what mail-mi said in Battlestar Galactica mafia and he was scum.

Okay, yolo time.

I am Elizabeth Bennett, from Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice. I am a restless spirit.

I have no reason to lie about this, in fact it would make you guys more likely to lynch me since I can still vote when I'm dead. It would benefit town to show me how to actually read people, so I can make educated votes after I'm dead.
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"In your face." -Jacob
"Ooh. You just got burned." -Jack
"First place again, disciple!" -Ruikai
"Ugh... 399 cursors. Time to hack!" -Ben
"You gotta do your homework, dude!" -Yul
"Come on man, let the plat play." -The Plat
"It's nice to have a good 'in your face' every once in a while." -Jacob
"OBJECTION!!! The witness is being SUPER gross." -Phoenix Wright
"Milord, Inquisitor Fey sentences that burger to my stomach!" -Maya Fey
"Dude, I only had 4 cups of coffee this morning so I'm gonna crash." -Swi
"Okay, okay. My team name is: Team Lyle: the Advancing Armadillo." -Lyle
"I’m sorry Cedric, we just have to do what we have to do to get me to be a op." -Paul
"Well, I prefer loyal people. I don’t want anyone to be a La-Ya except for me." -La-Ya
"I don't play Monkey vs. Monkey. I'm too busy in pacifist mode, watching my buildings survive and thrive!" -Joshua
Lyle's mom: Are you guys going to play regular Dominion, or are you going to play cheat?
Lyle: Of course we're playing Cheat Dominion!

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #368 on: December 15, 2016, 11:31:06 pm »

Wow, talk about sensitivity to pressure! For the record, you had only two votes on you, generally you want to wait a bit more before claiming. In fact, I am not even sure if restless spirit is something you claim at all.

I need to think about this.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #369 on: December 16, 2016, 12:19:28 am »

Interesting claim. There isn't a reason to lie but also not a reason to claim.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #370 on: December 16, 2016, 12:49:39 am »

actually, creating the IC who can'e be killed at night is much more profitable than people think. Vote: Teamlyle
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #371 on: December 16, 2016, 12:50:37 am »

lynching Teamlyle we won't lose in any way at all. He may still be scum.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #372 on: December 16, 2016, 01:13:42 am »

lynching Teamlyle we won't lose in any way at all. He may still be scum.

But I think it is still better to leave him alive than lynch him for no reason. He is an IC that can't speak.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #373 on: December 16, 2016, 01:26:46 am »

@mod: May a restless spirit post multiple votes within one post?

Like:
"Vote: X
 Vote: Y
"
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #374 on: December 16, 2016, 01:34:49 am »

What exactly worries you? The state of my computer? Yeah, not entirely sure what's wrong with it. It runs perfectly fine 99% of the time, can run new games no problem... and then crashes when I've got 5 tabs on chrome open. It reboots in less than 30 seconds, so it's not the end of the world, but still.

Hmm. I heard that chrome runs each tab in its own thread, unlike other browsers. Maybe switching to firefox or waterfox or opera would solve the problem
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