Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 63  All

Author Topic: M90: Literature Mafia (Scum wins!)  (Read 154908 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #250 on: December 13, 2016, 04:20:15 pm »

not buying the eevee case.

vote: mcmc

Calamitas

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 407
  • Shuffle iT Username: Calamitas
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #251 on: December 13, 2016, 04:29:43 pm »

I'll name them quotes 1-3, easier to post and it's the next post anyways.

1.) My logic was: If we are not going to massclaim anyways, talking about the merits back and forth usually results in some people slipping about having/not having a role. It was top of mind because in the just ended game where I was scum with Robz and SA, we had the "so who has a power role" hunt based on the theory talk of day 1. I don't know, I felt it was worth it to float the idea of avoiding that, especially now that more people are likely to have roles. It's not like I tried to ban theory talk, just thought to remind people that if you feel you don't want to massclaim or anyone to claim, probably the best course of action is not to talk about claiming.

2.) Eh, I was online and saw a claim early day 1 and reacted. Would do it again, would encourage others to act the same way!

To further explain myself, I outright believed it after considering if I thought it was likely WW would do that as scum (decided no, posted about it in the thread).

3. I don't think that's ambiguous - looks clear as day to me that he wouldn't say that unless he had meant it as a joke. Not sure what's happening here, but others seem to agree with me.

I don't understand your scum narrative - has anyone ever played scum like that?

It's not my intention to push people to believe anything. I'm trying to post my opinions about events in the game to discuss them and figure things out.

And meh, I just thought people throwing shade at WW were being very short-sighted, not considering "Hey, does this make sense for mafia", but just posting "Hey, it's annoying he made a bad joke, must not be on the same side as me!" out of frustration. Robz even admitted as much here:
I don't really think the WW thing is a scum master ploy either, it was just sort of annoying and I didn't get it at first, and I think that's WW's fault not mine.

I totally agree that it was WW's fault, but not that it's particularly productive to blame him for it, especially since there was no bad consequence as far as I can tell.
This basically. I don't think scum!eevee would actually try to act anti-town D1, it just doesn't make sense.
Logged
Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

mcmcsalot

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 338
  • Shuffle iT Username: mcmcsalot
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #252 on: December 13, 2016, 04:37:53 pm »

3. I don't think that's ambiguous - looks clear as day to me that he wouldn't say that unless he had meant it as a joke. Not sure what's happening here, but others seem to agree with me.

I don't understand your scum narrative - has anyone ever played scum like that?

It's not my intention to push people to believe anything. I'm trying to post my opinions about events in the game to discuss them and figure things out.

And meh, I just thought people throwing shade at WW were being very short-sighted, not considering "Hey, does this make sense for mafia", but just posting "Hey, it's annoying he made a bad joke, must not be on the same side as me!" out of frustration. Robz even admitted as much here:
I don't really think the WW thing is a scum master ploy either, it was just sort of annoying and I didn't get it at first, and I think that's WW's fault not mine.

I totally agree that it was WW's fault, but not that it's particularly productive to blame him for it, especially since there was no bad consequence as far as I can tell.

Underlined response 1. I'm sorry..."I stopped playing mafia and no one knows what a joke is" is NOT clear as day saying hey the post I made earlier where I claimed a role was 100% a joke and should be disregarded.

Underlined response 2. What don't you understand about it...I think it is plausible scum!ww makes a claim hoping to confuse people planning on saying it was just a joke when any suspicion gets turned on him for making the claim. I just thought you were downplaying things by saying it would be a bad move for scum to just fakeclaim and then drop it.

As for the rest of your defense, that would be great if I was super suspicious of ww and being shortsighted. But I always just said I wanted ww to clarify, it's because you were so confident so early and started going after people before ww clarified that is why I was voting for you.
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Eevee

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1010
  • Shuffle iT Username: Eevee
  • A wild Eevee appears!
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #253 on: December 13, 2016, 04:39:03 pm »

I think I commented on this earlier, but from last game I can tell I'm more of the "so scared to become the target it's crippling" persuasion as a scum player, far from the brash "let's be antitown on purpose, they'll never catch me!" type.
Logged

mcmcsalot

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 338
  • Shuffle iT Username: mcmcsalot
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #254 on: December 13, 2016, 04:39:48 pm »

@calamatis I believe you are confused, that scum narrative eevee said he doesn't believe is the scum narrative for ww acting anti town, not for eevee. And to clarify again I don't think ww is scum, but I don't like eevee downplaying the possibility that ww is.
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

SpaceAnemone

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
  • Shuffle iT Username: SpaceAnemone
  • Correct Horse Battery Staple
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #255 on: December 13, 2016, 04:41:06 pm »

It was top of mind because in the just ended game where I was scum with Robz and SA, we had the "so who has a power role" hunt based on the theory talk of day 1. I don't know, I felt it was worth it to float the idea of avoiding that, especially now that more people are likely to have roles. It's not like I tried to ban theory talk, just thought to remind people that if you feel you don't want to massclaim or anyone to claim, probably the best course of action is not to talk about claiming.

But this current game is very different from LL's game, so why is that worrying for you? In terms of expectations, actually fewer townies are likely to have roles here than in LL's game: I make it that three players on average should have roles here, with a variance close to one. (LL's game turned out to have four town PRs, though with a mechanism that limited their efficacy). The big difference between that setup and this one is that there it was a completely closed invented setup, whereas here we know the distribution from which our roles have been chosen, and what all the roles are, so naturally any theory talk will be quite different.

So in terms of immediate reaction to WW's post, you've said:
To further explain myself, I outright believed it after considering if I thought it was likely WW would do that as scum (decided no, posted about it in the thread).

But then in retrospect you say this:
3. I don't think that's ambiguous - looks clear as day to me that he wouldn't say that unless he had meant it as a joke.
... which seems to be a u-turn on the outright belief front.

Not sure what's happening here, but others seem to agree with me.
I'm unconvinced by this statement, though it does illustrate mcmc's point about how you've been saying things and then "passing it off like it's just what everyone thinks" (from post #248).

PPE 4
Logged
Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

Eevee

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1010
  • Shuffle iT Username: Eevee
  • A wild Eevee appears!
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #256 on: December 13, 2016, 04:43:09 pm »

I disagree about both your underlined points!
Logged

J Reggie

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 842
  • Shuffle iT Username: J Reggie
    • View Profile
    • Jeff Rosenthal Music
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #257 on: December 13, 2016, 04:46:58 pm »

I feel like we're baking up a lot of the wrong trees. If Robz and Eevee are scum we're best off lynching one of them D1.

I have a plan. Each person should claim a PR that they're not. Each claim should be different from the last. This limits scum but not town.

mcmcsalot

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 338
  • Shuffle iT Username: mcmcsalot
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #258 on: December 13, 2016, 04:50:10 pm »

I disagree about both your underlined points!

Unhelpful post is unhelpful...it does pad your post count though
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Eevee

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1010
  • Shuffle iT Username: Eevee
  • A wild Eevee appears!
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #259 on: December 13, 2016, 04:51:36 pm »

It was top of mind because in the just ended game where I was scum with Robz and SA, we had the "so who has a power role" hunt based on the theory talk of day 1. I don't know, I felt it was worth it to float the idea of avoiding that, especially now that more people are likely to have roles. It's not like I tried to ban theory talk, just thought to remind people that if you feel you don't want to massclaim or anyone to claim, probably the best course of action is not to talk about claiming.

But this current game is very different from LL's game, so why is that worrying for you? In terms of expectations, actually fewer townies are likely to have roles here than in LL's game: I make it that three players on average should have roles here, with a variance close to one. (LL's game turned out to have four town PRs, though with a mechanism that limited their efficacy). The big difference between that setup and this one is that there it was a completely closed invented setup, whereas here we know the distribution from which our roles have been chosen, and what all the roles are, so naturally any theory talk will be quite different.
Sure, you are right (again!) with the setup stuff. I think this has happened to me previously, I just offhandedly get a thought and since its RVS, I go post it. You know, totally not convinced it couldn't be a good idea to theory talk in this setup. Just popped into my mind what the downside could be, so I posted about it. I didn't really do any math or even much thinking about the setup when posting that.


So in terms of immediate reaction to WW's post, you've said:
To further explain myself, I outright believed it after considering if I thought it was likely WW would do that as scum (decided no, posted about it in the thread).

But then in retrospect you say this:
3. I don't think that's ambiguous - looks clear as day to me that he wouldn't say that unless he had meant it as a joke.
... which seems to be a u-turn on the outright belief front.[/quote]
The two posts are referring to different things - the first is a reaction to WW's claim, and the second a reaction to his next post where he said it was a joke.


Not sure what's happening here, but others seem to agree with me.
I'm unconvinced by this statement, though it does illustrate mcmc's point about how you've been saying things and then "passing it off like it's just what everyone thinks" (from post #248).

PPE 4
[/quote]
Hmm, upon checking back, you are right about that, it was just teamlyle who thought the explanation was obvious.

Wait I really don't understand why this isn't clearly a joke.
Logged

Eevee

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1010
  • Shuffle iT Username: Eevee
  • A wild Eevee appears!
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #260 on: December 13, 2016, 04:52:34 pm »

Huh, I haven't believed WW for a second (does that mean I know what the joke is? I even chuckled seeing his claim)
And I don't like how Robz is trying to move that to a wagon. So, semi-serious Vote: Robz888
I guess LL too,
Wait I really don't understand why this isn't clearly a joke.

because people have stuff on their mind and don't remember the pregame.

No wait, ss ja LL too!
Logged

Calamitas

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 407
  • Shuffle iT Username: Calamitas
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #261 on: December 13, 2016, 04:52:52 pm »

@calamatis I believe you are confused, that scum narrative eevee said he doesn't believe is the scum narrative for ww acting anti town, not for eevee. And to clarify again I don't think ww is scum, but I don't like eevee downplaying the possibility that ww is.
Do you genuinely think scum!WW is more likely to open a game like that than town!WW? If not, his statement isn't scum indicative at all. And I think that was the mainpart eevee's comment has been about:
Not that the overall probability of him being scum is particularly low but rather that this specific piece of information isn't actual evidence for him being scum.

PPE:3
Logged
Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

Eevee

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1010
  • Shuffle iT Username: Eevee
  • A wild Eevee appears!
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #262 on: December 13, 2016, 04:57:04 pm »

I disagree about both your underlined points!

Unhelpful post is unhelpful...it does pad your post count though
Well, I disagree that WW's post didn't make it completely clear that he was kidding, it certainly did to me, and at least some others. I don't want this to become a trolling war, but are you maybe saying that teamlyle, ss and LL are all scum too for thinking it was obvious? I just really don't see a point in arguing over whether that was obvious to someone, as only they can know. You know, if you are town and really didn't get that he was kidding from that and think it's unreasonable for others to have, you probably aren't changing your mind. If you are scum and it's all a fabrication, you definitely aren't.

Second point, I tried to asked when has anyone ever played scum like that, you didn't provide any examples, I don't know what to say. Elaborate plans to hurt town are definitely above my paygrade as a scumplayer, I just try to live to the next day whilst not being obviously tied to my partners.
Logged

Twistedarcher

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 494
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #263 on: December 13, 2016, 04:58:39 pm »

(/tag)
Logged

Eevee

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1010
  • Shuffle iT Username: Eevee
  • A wild Eevee appears!
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #264 on: December 13, 2016, 04:58:59 pm »

I got to go, probably for tonight. Looking forward to padding my post count again tomorrow.  :)
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #265 on: December 13, 2016, 04:59:45 pm »

Vote: Eevee
Logged

LaLight

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 774
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #266 on: December 13, 2016, 05:01:44 pm »

Vote: Eevee
Logged
Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #267 on: December 13, 2016, 05:09:06 pm »

I feel like we're baking up a lot of the wrong trees. If Robz and Eevee are scum we're best off lynching one of them D1.

I don't understand what you're saying here.  What trees are the wrong trees?
Logged

J Reggie

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 842
  • Shuffle iT Username: J Reggie
    • View Profile
    • Jeff Rosenthal Music
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #268 on: December 13, 2016, 05:24:31 pm »

I feel like we're baking up a lot of the wrong trees. If Robz and Eevee are scum we're best off lynching one of them D1.

I don't understand what you're saying here.  What trees are the wrong trees?

You and mcmcsalot. We're talking too much about your opening post. Like yeah it got things going but now we're standing because we're trying to read too much into it.

mcmcsalot

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 338
  • Shuffle iT Username: mcmcsalot
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #269 on: December 13, 2016, 05:27:23 pm »

@calamatis I believe you are confused, that scum narrative eevee said he doesn't believe is the scum narrative for ww acting anti town, not for eevee. And to clarify again I don't think ww is scum, but I don't like eevee downplaying the possibility that ww is.
Do you genuinely think scum!WW is more likely to open a game like that than town!WW? If not, his statement isn't scum indicative at all. And I think that was the mainpart eevee's comment has been about:
Not that the overall probability of him being scum is particularly low but rather that this specific piece of information isn't actual evidence for him being scum.

PPE:3

I have said before, I actually agree with the people, including eevee, who think this narrative is more likely a bad play from town!ww and not a ploy by scum!ww. The point I was trying to make goes back to what eevee said:

This is one of those "Sure, but it's more something scum would shy away from doing" situations.
I really think innocent joke is a much more likely scenario than a scum plot that was suddenly abandoned for no reason at all.

These posts to me came off as super downplaying even the possibility that witherweaver is scum. Now while I agree with the overall conclusion I am worried scum!eevee is trying to downplay the possibility of ww being scum so that he can get the people who disagree lynched.




Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 338
  • Shuffle iT Username: mcmcsalot
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #270 on: December 13, 2016, 05:29:32 pm »

I feel like we're baking up a lot of the wrong trees. If Robz and Eevee are scum we're best off lynching one of them D1.

I don't understand what you're saying here.  What trees are the wrong trees?

You and mcmcsalot. We're talking too much about your opening post. Like yeah it got things going but now we're standing because we're trying to read too much into it.

So this looks like a really really bad scum partner attempt at stealing things away from the current conversation.

We have long since passed discussing the actual post ww made. Me and eevee find each other scummy and what you to vote for the other person (I think he's voting me). Care to weigh in on that?
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

SpaceAnemone

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
  • Shuffle iT Username: SpaceAnemone
  • Correct Horse Battery Staple
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #271 on: December 13, 2016, 05:31:37 pm »

I have a plan. Each person should claim a PR that they're not. Each claim should be different from the last. This limits scum but not town.

What does the 12th person claim, in a game with 11 possible different town PRs? And what if town's PRs are late claiming, and only their actual role remains? Or what if town PRs realise that's a problem, and claim early in the line, indicating to scum which people are more likely to be PRs? Scum also knows that people claiming last with confidence are probably VTs.

So yeah, I don't like this plan... Is it another one of those things that's actually a joke? Or just an ill-thought-out attempt at diverting from the mcmc-Eevee conflict?
Logged
Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

J Reggie

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 842
  • Shuffle iT Username: J Reggie
    • View Profile
    • Jeff Rosenthal Music
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #272 on: December 13, 2016, 05:46:20 pm »

I have a plan. Each person should claim a PR that they're not. Each claim should be different from the last. This limits scum but not town.

What does the 12th person claim, in a game with 11 possible different town PRs? And what if town's PRs are late claiming, and only their actual role remains? Or what if town PRs realise that's a problem, and claim early in the line, indicating to scum which people are more likely to be PRs? Scum also knows that people claiming last with confidence are probably VTs.

So yeah, I don't like this plan... Is it another one of those things that's actually a joke? Or just an ill-thought-out attempt at diverting from the mcmc-Eevee conflict?

Not different from all the others, just the last one. This is just so people don't say "I'm not the tracker" until the tracker claims.

J Reggie

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 842
  • Shuffle iT Username: J Reggie
    • View Profile
    • Jeff Rosenthal Music
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #273 on: December 13, 2016, 05:47:10 pm »

I feel like we're baking up a lot of the wrong trees. If Robz and Eevee are scum we're best off lynching one of them D1.

I don't understand what you're saying here.  What trees are the wrong trees?

You and mcmcsalot. We're talking too much about your opening post. Like yeah it got things going but now we're standing because we're trying to read too much into it.

So this looks like a really really bad scum partner attempt at stealing things away from the current conversation.

We have long since passed discussing the actual post ww made. Me and eevee find each other scummy and what you to vote for the other person (I think he's voting me). Care to weigh in on that?

I think Eevee is scummier than you. But I still like my vote on Robz.

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2644
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
    • View Profile
Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #274 on: December 13, 2016, 05:51:12 pm »

I feel like we're baking up a lot of the wrong trees. If Robz and Eevee are scum we're best off lynching one of them D1.

I don't understand what you're saying here.  What trees are the wrong trees?

You and mcmcsalot. We're talking too much about your opening post. Like yeah it got things going but now we're standing because we're trying to read too much into it.

So this looks like a really really bad scum partner attempt at stealing things away from the current conversation.

We have long since passed discussing the actual post ww made. Me and eevee find each other scummy and what you to vote for the other person (I think he's voting me). Care to weigh in on that?

Yeah, I really don't understand how JReggie could think "we're barking up the wrong trees" and that barking up the right trees would involve lynching me and (not even or, but AND) Eevee. Eevee is the character must under heat at the moment, anyway! So we are barking up your preferred tree anyway.

So I dispute both the premise and the question. WW's weird joke thing was worth scrutinizing, and now Eevee is worth scrutinizing for how his reaction to it when down.

And mcmc is really winning this argument, Eevee looks like he's flailing badly to me. But I don't know if that makes him scum, or just town who kind of said the wrong things. I feel like Eevee is a cooler-headed scum. So I'm not sure.

I do think the crusade mcmc is on really absolutely comes from a place of town!mcmc.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 63  All
 

Page created in 0.145 seconds with 20 queries.