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Author Topic: M90: Literature Mafia (Scum wins!)  (Read 17140 times)

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faust

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M90: Literature Mafia (Scum wins!)
« on: November 22, 2016, 11:06:13 am »

Welcome to M90: Literature Mafia!

Mod: faust, comod: schadd

This is a semi-open setup for 12 players in the style of asher9++. See second post for additional information.


Players:
1. LaLight
2. Calamitas
3. gkrieg13
4. Witherweaver
5. Robz888
6. SpaceAnemone
7. silverspawn
8. J Reggie
9. teamlyle
10. Eevee
11. mcmcsalot
12. pacovf

Spectators tagged: Archetype, Roadrunner7671, mail-mi, Joseph2302, 2.71828....., scott_pilgrim

Day starts/ends:

General rules

Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in olive.

The Golden Rule:


Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, donít get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any game-related source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. Day phases will last 7 days, Twilight lasts 12 hours, Night lasts 36 hours.
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someoneís fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, there will be no lynch.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or night kill, town wins.
10. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a ďBahĒ post. The dead in this game are silent.
11. If the thread is locked, you may not post.  Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post.  The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.

3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, olive text is reserved for the mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they donít get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.9 without further notice.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate Ė donít leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement, or fail to post for 24 hours repeatedly, risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a post in the role QT. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 03:23:01 am by faust »
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2016, 11:06:24 am »

Setup:

faust9++ is a semi-open setup for 12 players. Setup generation is a randomized process that is open and explained below.

All games include a Universal Back-Up. Scum factional powers always include a 1-night Switch. The remaining 11 roles are determined by rolling six random numbers from 1-10. Each roll is separate. The following number ranges are assigned letters as shown:

1-4: T (Townie. This directly influences scum power roles.)
5: I (Investigative)
6: B (Blocking)
7: P (Protective)
8: K (Killing)
9: V (Voting)
10: W (Wildcard)

After the letters have been assigned, the mod refers to the list below to determine which power roles are included.

Investigative Roles
I = Tracker
II = Watcher
III = Tracker, Watcher
IIII = Tracker, Tracker, Watcher
IIIII = Tracker, Watcher, Watcher
IIIIII = Tracker, Tracker, Watcher, Watcher

Blocking Roles
B = Roleblocker
BB = Jailkeeper
BBB = Roleblocker, Roleblocker
BBBB = Roleblocker, Jailkeeper
BBBBB = Jailkeeper, Jailkeeper
BBBBBB = Jailkeeper, Jailkeeper, Roleblocker

Protective Roles
P = Virgin OR Bodyguard OR 1-shot Commuter*
PP = Virgin, Bodyguard
PPP = 1-shot Commuter, Bodyguard
PPPP = 1-shot Commuter, Virgin, Bodyguard
PPPPP = 1-shot Commuter, 1-shot Commuter, Bodyguard
PPPPPP = 1-shot Commuter, 1-shot Commuter, 1-shot Commuter, Bodyguard

Killing Roles
K = 1-night PGO
KK = Vigilante
KKK = 1-night PGO, Vigilante
KKKK = 1-night PGO, 1-night PGO, Vigilante
KKKKK = 1-night PGO, Vigilante, Vigilante
KKKKKK = 1-night PGO, 1-night PGO, Vigilante, Vigilante

Voting Roles
V** = Restess Spirit
VV = 1-shot Governor
VVV = Restless Spirit, 1-shot Governor
VVVV = Restless Spirit, Restless Spirit
VVVVV = Restless Spirit, Restless Spirit, 1-shot Governor
VVVVVV = Restless Spirit, Restless Spirit, 1-shot Governor, 1-shot Governor

Wildcard Roles
For the wildcard slot, the number of Ws is determined. Then a random other category (I, B, P, K or V) is determined and roles are added as though that number of that character had been rolled. Example:

    The roll is WWWBBT. The random category determined is also B. This adds to the game:
    1 Jailkeeper (from BB) + 2 Roleblockers (from BBB)

Scum Roles (In addition to the factional 1-night Switch)
TTTTTT = Goon, Goon, Goon
TTTTT = Goon, Goon, Goon; Hidden Ascetic***
TTTT = Roleblocker, 1-shot Ninja, Goon
TTT = Roleblocker, 1-shot Ninja, Goon; Hidden Ascetic***
TT = Roleblocker, 2-shot Ninja, Strongman
T = Roleblocker, 2-shot Ninja, Strongman; Hidden Ascetic***
0 Ts = Roleblocker, 2-shot Ninja, Strongman; Hidden Ascetic***

After power roles are determined from the table above, Vanilla Townies are added to arrive at 12 players.

* "Or" roles are determined randomly
** Single V rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Restless Spirit
*** In some cases, scum receives a Hidden Ascetic. This means that one scum player is randomly Ascetic. They are not informed about this. The role flips upon death.

Clarifications:

--If a 1-Shot PR is the first PR to die, the UB will inherit that role, even if the shot was used up. The UB will not receive a new shot. The will know if they have a shot remaining.
--If the Universal Backup converts to a Restless Spirit due to a single V roll, that player will not be informed of the conversion.
--If there is a single V roll and a single W roll that converts to V, the UB will not be converted and there will be a single Restless Spirit.
--The Universal Backup can never inherit a Restless Spirit's power.
--The Mafia factional 1-night Switch vanillaises all roles in one of the above categories (I, B, P, K, V) that the mafia chooses in one night and the following day and twilight. Wildcard roles count as their respective category. This action cannot be blocked.
--Twilight starts immediately after a lynch succeeded, even without mod confirmation.
--The mafia QT opens at the start of Twilight and closes at the start of the Day.
--A player targeted by both Bodyguard and Strongman will die, but the Bodguard will live.
--Scum actions take precedence over town actions in the action resolution chain if they are of the same category.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 07:13:57 am by faust »
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2016, 11:06:34 am »

Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Vanilla Townie!

You have no special powers.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Universal Backup!

The first time a power role dies, you will inherit their abilities.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Tracker!

Each night, you may target 1 player. At the end of the night, you will receive a list of all players that your target targeted that night.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Watcher!

Each night, you may target 1 player. At the end of the night, you will receive a list of all players that targeted your target that night.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Roleblocker!

Each night, you may target 1 player. Each action that player takes that night or the following Twilight will be blocked.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Jailkeeper!

Each night, you may target 1 player. Each action that player takes that night or the following Twilight will be blocked. Any killing role targeting your target will fail.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Virgin!

If you killed during the night, the following night the mafia's nightkill will be blocked. Your power is permanently lost if you are targeted by a Roleblocker.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Bodyguard!

Each night, you may target 1 player. If that player is targeted by a nightkill, you die instead.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the 1-shot Commuter!

Once in the game, at night, you may choose to commute. If you do, any action targeting you that night will be blocked.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the 1-night Paranoid Gun Owner!

Once during the game, at night, you may choose to activate your power. If you do, all players targeting you that night will die.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Vigilante!

Each night, you may target 1 plaer. That player will die.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Restless Spirit!

After you have died, you may still vote in the thread, but you may not make any other posts.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the 1-shot Governor!

Once during the game, at Twilight, you may choose to activiate your power. If you do, the player with the most votes will not die.

You win when all mafia-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive.
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Mafia Goon!

At night, you may talk with your buddies in a shared QT: [link]

You win when all town-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one mafia-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Your fakeclaim is [flavor name].
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Mafia Roleblocker!

At night, you may talk with your buddies in a shared QT: [link]
Each night, you may target one other player. Any action that player takes that night will be blocked. You may use this in addition to the factional kill.

You win when all town-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one mafia-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Your fakeclaim is [flavor name].
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Mafia 1-shot Ninja!

At night, you may talk with your buddies in a shared QT: [link]
Once in the game, at night, you may choose to use your Ninja power. If you do and perform the factional kill that night, no investigative roles will be able to see your action. Additionally, you cannot trigger a Paranoid Gun Owner.

You win when all town-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one mafia-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Your fakeclaim is [flavor name].
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Mafia 2-shot Ninja!

At night, you may talk with your buddies in a shared QT: [link]
Twice in the game, at night, you may choose to use your Ninja power. If you do and perform the factional kill that night, no investigative roles will be able to see your action. Additionally, you cannot trigger a Paranoid Gun Owner.

You win when all town-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one mafia-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Your fakeclaim is [flavor name].
Quote
Welcome, [player name]!

You are [flavor name], the Mafia Strongman!

At night, you may talk with your buddies in a shared QT: [link]
If you perform your faction's kill, no protective role targeting your target (Jailkeeper or Bodyguard) can save them.

You win when all town-aligned players are dead, and there is at least one mafia-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Your fakeclaim is [flavor name].
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 04:00:18 am by faust »
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

LaLight

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2016, 11:07:48 am »

Hm, i thought McG is the next one.

Anyway /in
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LaLetís LaLynch LaLight.

Wins: 11, 7
Losses: 9, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 3
Mod/Co-mod: 17

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

faust

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2016, 11:14:18 am »

Hm, i thought McG is the next one.

I entered the queue before him.

I'm currently in the process of designing an asher9++ style setup with different roles and could uses a second pair of eyes. I intend to run it as a normal game once Worms Armageddon Mafia is done.

Just so nobody accuses me of abusing my mod powers, which I do too, but a lot more subtly.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Calamitas

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2016, 11:26:53 am »

/in
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

faust

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2016, 11:46:53 am »

Note that some stricter anti-lurking rules have been put in place for this game.

Quote
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate Ė donít leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement, or fail to post for 24 hours repeatedly, risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

schadd

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2016, 11:53:14 am »

/comod if nobody cooler steps in
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beloved my john, i'll carry on

LaLight

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2016, 12:00:50 pm »

Note that some stricter anti-lurking rules have been put in place for this game.

Quote
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate Ė donít leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement, or fail to post for 24 hours repeatedly, risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.

I never lurk :P
Also what's stricter? Looks like normal rules
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LaLetís LaLynch LaLight.

Wins: 11, 7
Losses: 9, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 3
Mod/Co-mod: 17

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

faust

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2016, 12:05:21 pm »

Note that some stricter anti-lurking rules have been put in place for this game.

Quote
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate Ė donít leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement, or fail to post for 24 hours repeatedly, risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.

I never lurk :P
Also what's stricter? Looks like normal rules
Before, it was multiple 48-hour periods to make you eligible for replacement.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2016, 12:06:03 pm »

/comod if nobody cooler steps in
Thanks!
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2016, 12:11:07 pm »

/in
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JaketheBaseballGod22

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2016, 12:19:37 pm »

/in but I may be the polar opposite of what this game is about
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Baseball For Life
Mafia Record Overall (6-14) 30%

Town Wins (4-11) 26.7% M88L, M89L, NM9L, M91L, M95L, M97L,NM10W, RMM41L, M100L, M103L, M105W, M107W, RMM45W, M109L, RMM46L

Scum Wins (2-3) 40% M87L, M94W, ZM23L, M99L, ZM24W

MVP's: None

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2016, 01:27:03 pm »

I have to /tag for now

Super interesting setup. Is the PGO passive? Does the Governor target someone to protect from the lynch or just gets the opportunity to activate their power every lynch? Does a Strongman on a Bodyguard target kill both the Bodyguard and the protected player?
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2016, 01:45:39 pm »

\tag
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2016, 04:39:52 pm »

/tag
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2016, 05:15:17 pm »

/tag
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2016, 05:31:35 pm »

/in
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2016, 06:23:52 pm »

I have to /tag for now

Super interesting setup. Is the PGO passive? Does the Governor target someone to protect from the lynch or just gets the opportunity to activate their power every lynch? Does a Strongman on a Bodyguard target kill both the Bodyguard and the protected player?

All will be clear when the sample PMs get here. Hopefully.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2016, 09:18:12 pm »

Tag
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

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Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
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JaketheBaseballGod22

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2016, 10:22:16 am »

Bump
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Mafia Record Overall (6-14) 30%

Town Wins (4-11) 26.7% M88L, M89L, NM9L, M91L, M95L, M97L,NM10W, RMM41L, M100L, M103L, M105W, M107W, RMM45W, M109L, RMM46L

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2016, 11:39:25 am »

/in :-)
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2016, 12:49:06 pm »

/in :-)
(-: ni\

Should have time again! Though I think I'll stick to just one game for now.
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JaketheBaseballGod22

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2016, 01:22:33 pm »

/in :-)
(-: ni\

Should have time again! Though I think I'll stick to just one game for now.
Noice ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Baseball For Life
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Town Wins (4-11) 26.7% M88L, M89L, NM9L, M91L, M95L, M97L,NM10W, RMM41L, M100L, M103L, M105W, M107W, RMM45W, M109L, RMM46L

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2016, 01:44:18 pm »

This seems really complicated.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2016, 02:12:55 pm »

This seems really complicated.

Trust me it is less complicated than many setups out there.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2016, 02:41:50 pm »

This seems really complicated.

Trust me it is less complicated than many setups out there.

Yeah, that's true. This is actually a very straightforward, default setup. We've run variants of it many times. Lots of fun, easy to understand.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2016, 04:07:11 pm »

... but hard to math out. A history of controversial debates forecasts conflict looming above us. With Calamitas at our side, I am hopeful for a Bayesian victory.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2016, 04:41:35 pm »

also pretty fun to math out
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2016, 04:50:56 pm »

This seems really complicated.

Trust me it is less complicated than many setups out there.

Okay, I might join, but I'm currently in 1 game and signed up for another one.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2016, 07:13:39 pm »

... but hard to math out. A history of controversial debates forecasts conflict looming above us. With Calamitas at our side, I am hopeful for a Bayesian victory.

The priors are fun to compute, but the setup isn't so complex that you can't just brute force it.. I still have my Matlab script from the previous asher9++ setup I played :-)
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2016, 07:31:53 pm »

I think the wildcard mechanic will make things noticeably more difficult to approach mathematically.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2016, 07:39:51 pm »

Are you playing, Scott?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2016, 07:48:41 pm »

No, I don't plan to play mafia ever again.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2016, 08:08:57 pm »

 
No, I don't plan to play mafia ever again.
:(
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2016, 11:25:01 pm »

No, I don't plan to play mafia ever again.

Had to try :)
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2016, 07:56:04 am »

@faust: This is a very improbable corner case, but what happens if a single "V" role converts the UB to a restless spirit, and then a single "W" roll is converted randomly to be a second single "V" roll?
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faust

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2016, 10:31:01 am »

@faust: This is a very improbable corner case, but what happens if a single "V" role converts the UB to a restless spirit, and then a single "W" roll is converted randomly to be a second single "V" roll?

See OP:
--If there is a single V roll and a single W roll that converts to V, the UB will not be converted and there will be a single Restless Spirit.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2016, 10:47:57 am »

See OP:
--If there is a single V roll and a single W roll that converts to V, the UB will not be converted and there will be a single Restless Spirit.

Ah, my bad or failing to spot that line! Makes sense :-)
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2016, 01:47:42 pm »

/in

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2016, 11:59:11 am »

I think it's time for me to try again.

/in. Thanks!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2016, 12:01:18 pm »

I think it's time for me to try again.

/in. Thanks!

Wowwow, nice to see you!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2016, 12:01:29 pm »

Just when I thought I was out
They pulled me back /in!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2016, 12:06:35 pm »

oooooo
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2016, 03:25:54 pm »

So, this will be my fourth game since my return. So far I was assigned Tracker, Mafia JOAT, and Mafia Roleblocker. I'm definitely due to be a VT, huh?
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Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2016, 03:26:26 pm »

And faust, can you add the scum role PMs? I don't see them. I don't know a Hidden Ascetic does.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #48 on: December 05, 2016, 04:00:44 pm »

So, this will be my fourth game since my return. So far I was assigned Tracker, Mafia JOAT, and Mafia Roleblocker. I'm definitely due to be a VT, huh?

softclaiming already? vote: Robz!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #49 on: December 05, 2016, 04:48:20 pm »

Wow, just read the setup. This looks amazing.
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JaketheBaseballGod22

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #50 on: December 05, 2016, 06:19:53 pm »

So, this will be my fourth game since my return. So far I was assigned Tracker, Mafia JOAT, and Mafia Roleblocker. I'm definitely due to be a VT, huh?
Totally a scum move Vote: Robz
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Baseball For Life
Mafia Record Overall (6-14) 30%

Town Wins (4-11) 26.7% M88L, M89L, NM9L, M91L, M95L, M97L,NM10W, RMM41L, M100L, M103L, M105W, M107W, RMM45W, M109L, RMM46L

Scum Wins (2-3) 40% M87L, M94W, ZM23L, M99L, ZM24W

MVP's: None

faust

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2016, 11:34:43 am »

And faust, can you add the scum role PMs? I don't see them. I don't know a Hidden Ascetic does.

It will happen and they will be there by game start. However, due to the nature of the role there can never be a role PM for Hidden Ascetic. Please read the clarifications for that.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (2 spots left)
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2016, 01:44:28 pm »

/in love the look of the setup
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (2 spots left)
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2016, 01:54:31 pm »

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (2 spots left)
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2016, 01:56:46 pm »

Oh me, oh my. Nice!!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (2 spots left)
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2016, 02:11:07 pm »

/in, I guess
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (2 spots left)
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2016, 02:15:15 pm »

/hammer
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (2 spots left)
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2016, 03:02:50 pm »

I think I had already hammered, in fact :p
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (2 spots left)
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2016, 03:13:33 pm »

Do we have space for both?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (2 spots left)
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2016, 03:32:16 pm »

mcmcs was the 11th and paco was the 12th, unfortunately
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (2 spots left)
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2016, 03:57:42 pm »

But here's the last hot spot in British Bonkers!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (2 spots left)
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2016, 04:20:52 pm »

10. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a ďBahĒ post. The dead in this game are silent.

This is interesting actually.
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Draws: 1
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (2 spots left)
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2016, 06:08:36 pm »

/tag
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (2 spots left)
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2016, 06:59:40 pm »

/tag
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Full! PMs will be there soon.)
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2016, 07:14:43 am »

Thread locked! PMs going out now.

Also I added some clarifications to the setup post. Please read them carefully.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Full! PMs will be there soon.)
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2016, 07:59:31 am »

PMs are out! Everyone, please confirm in your QT. Night 0 starts now and lasts until Thursday at roughly noon forum time.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Full! PMs will be there soon.)
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2016, 11:36:23 am »

All happy towns are alike; each unhappy town is unhappy in its own way.

Everything was in confusion in the Kochamma's house. The wife had discovered that the husband was carrying on an intrigue with a German girl, who had been going to his classes, and she had announced that she could not go on living in the same house as him. This position of affairs had now lasted three days, and not only the husband and wife themselves, but all the members of their family and household, were painfully conscious of it. Every person in the house felt that there was no sense in their living together, and that the stray people brought together by chance in any inn had more in common with one another than they, the members of the family and household of the Kochammas.


Day 1 begins!

Vote Count 1.0


Not Voting (12): LaLight, Calamitas, gkrieg13, JakeTheBaseballGod22, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, silverspawn, J Reggie, teamlyle, Eevee, mcmcsalot, pacovf

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends December 15 at noon forum time.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2016, 11:45:26 am »

Good morning! I'm back on the mafia train! I'm going to be honest, I haven't really read the last few games that I wasn't in, so any meta stuff from those is going to go over my head. I know how Best Dominion Card ended, but that's about it.

Anyway, vote: mcmcsalot

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2016, 11:47:24 am »

Thread locked!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2016, 11:53:39 am »

Due to certain events, this game needs to be restarted. Witherweaver will replace Jake unless Jake drops out any other games he is currently signed up for.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2016, 11:55:08 am »

Thread unlocked!

Witherweaver, can you clarify whether you still want to play?
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2016, 11:57:30 am »

Cool, I was already miffed about receiving a new random role.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2016, 11:58:47 am »

At least this happened at this point in the game and not later.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2016, 12:03:48 pm »

I am confused. Are we restarting or not?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2016, 12:04:11 pm »

I am confused. Are we restarting or not?

yes. waiting for confirmation from WW.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #75 on: December 08, 2016, 12:06:59 pm »

Sure I can.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #76 on: December 08, 2016, 12:07:34 pm »

nooo I drew town I don't wanna restart  :(
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #77 on: December 08, 2016, 12:08:41 pm »

Sure I can.

Cool, thanks. Probably won't get around to this until tomorrow though.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #78 on: December 08, 2016, 12:09:31 pm »

nooo I drew town I don't wanna restart  :(

I drew town and want to restart >:-]
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #79 on: December 08, 2016, 12:18:17 pm »

Well, this would have been the first time I don't draw VT. Sucks.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #80 on: December 08, 2016, 12:18:50 pm »

Sucks for Faust too, who has to reset the whole thing again. Man, you are an unlucky mod.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #81 on: December 08, 2016, 12:19:51 pm »

pacovfscum?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #82 on: December 08, 2016, 12:20:40 pm »

Pacovf!Restless Spirit?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #83 on: December 08, 2016, 12:23:15 pm »

drew scum  :'(
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #84 on: December 08, 2016, 12:23:43 pm »

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #85 on: December 08, 2016, 12:24:07 pm »

oh, sure, Vote: Calamitas
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #86 on: December 08, 2016, 12:24:51 pm »

drew scum  :'(


VOTE: CALAMITAS

Ya let's kill all the scum.

*looks at PM*

Oh. vote: WW
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #87 on: December 08, 2016, 12:32:30 pm »

Pacovf!Restless Spirit?

Restless Spirits sound kind of awesome though.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #88 on: December 08, 2016, 12:33:55 pm »

I just realized that votes look way more threatening if they are all all caps. I think we should introduce a rule that they count double.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #89 on: December 08, 2016, 12:34:37 pm »

Quote
http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/slowbro.gif

grr, that thing killed my last one-life run  >:(

VOTE: PACOVF
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #90 on: December 08, 2016, 12:42:25 pm »

Man. Just embrace the easy life. Man.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #91 on: December 08, 2016, 12:43:18 pm »

but the easy life is boring :P
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #92 on: December 08, 2016, 12:44:53 pm »

i nominate j reggie for mvp. he was like the sole driving force behind town's game
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #93 on: December 08, 2016, 12:46:50 pm »

i nominate j reggie for mvp. he was like the sole driving force behind town's game

I'm for WW.
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LaLetís LaLynch LaLight.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #94 on: December 08, 2016, 01:03:00 pm »

Saaaad faaaaace
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #95 on: December 08, 2016, 02:15:22 pm »

/tag and hi mcmc, long time no see!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #96 on: December 08, 2016, 02:17:26 pm »

So, this will be my fourth game since my return. So far I was assigned Tracker, Mafia JOAT, and Mafia Roleblocker. I'm definitely due to be a VT, huh?
What were you?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Open for signups)
« Reply #97 on: December 08, 2016, 02:20:34 pm »

So, this will be my fourth game since my return. So far I was assigned Tracker, Mafia JOAT, and Mafia Roleblocker. I'm definitely due to be a VT, huh?
What were you?

Town Roleblocker. So I'm absolutely going to get VT on the do-over.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #98 on: December 08, 2016, 03:02:23 pm »

It's true what they used to say, you are ALWAYS a PR!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #99 on: December 08, 2016, 04:31:53 pm »

I was the tracker. I even breadcrumbed it. Oh well. When he said thread locked I thought I had posted too early.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #100 on: December 08, 2016, 04:36:56 pm »

So, while we wait, anyone have any opinions on how 1-shot PGO should be played?

I feel it's a role with a lot of possibilites.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #101 on: December 08, 2016, 04:38:29 pm »

I've only ever been pgo as mafia, so I tried to get the town PRs to want to target me.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #102 on: December 08, 2016, 04:39:23 pm »

Softclaim Watcher/other good role i suppose.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #103 on: December 08, 2016, 05:05:43 pm »

Actually vote: Eevee for bringing this up. This benefits mafia.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #104 on: December 08, 2016, 05:07:16 pm »

So, while we wait, anyone have any opinions on how 1-shot PGO should be played?

I feel it's a role with a lot of possibilites.

"Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO."
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #105 on: December 08, 2016, 05:09:15 pm »

So, while we wait, anyone have any opinions on how 1-shot PGO should be played?

I feel it's a role with a lot of possibilites.

"Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO."
This, town has significantly more PRs than scum so the probability of killing a town pr is just too high.
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Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #106 on: December 08, 2016, 05:16:11 pm »

So, while we wait, anyone have any opinions on how 1-shot PGO should be played?

I feel it's a role with a lot of possibilites.

"Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO."
This, town has significantly more PRs than scum so the probability of killing a town pr is just too high.

Not sure of this. Town doesn't have that many targetting roles, while scum always has the factional kill
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #107 on: December 09, 2016, 12:43:57 am »

Sorry was busy today. I was VT.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #108 on: December 09, 2016, 03:47:24 am »

So, while we wait, anyone have any opinions on how 1-shot PGO should be played?

I feel it's a role with a lot of possibilites.

"Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO."
This, town has significantly more PRs than scum so the probability of killing a town pr is just too high.

Not sure of this. Town doesn't have that many targetting roles, while scum always has the factional kill

And abs(killing mafia) > abs (losing town).
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #109 on: December 09, 2016, 08:17:10 am »

So, while we wait, anyone have any opinions on how 1-shot PGO should be played?

I feel it's a role with a lot of possibilites.

"Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO."
This, town has significantly more PRs than scum so the probability of killing a town pr is just too high.

Not sure of this. Town doesn't have that many targetting roles, while scum always has the factional kill

And abs(killing mafia) > abs (losing town).
Sure, but not as much as one might think. Also, scum owns the ninja trait and the utility of town targeting roles is pretty high usually in this scenario.
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Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #110 on: December 09, 2016, 09:29:36 am »

I wonder how much these discussions are going to affect the game.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #111 on: December 09, 2016, 09:47:23 am »

I wonder how much these discussions are going to affect the game.
They probably won't at all :D
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #112 on: December 09, 2016, 10:28:10 am »

Thread locked!

Everyone will keep their QTs. New roles are posted there starting now. Everyone will also keep their flavor name (but scum fakeclaims may be exchanged with "real" flavor names where necessary); Witherweaver will receive a completely new flavor name.

In an effort to give everyone the same information, I will also share this:

The flavor names of the mafia are
Humbert Humbert (from Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita)
Ada (from Juli Zeh's Gaming Instinct)
Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov (from Fyodor Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment)

They are distributed independently of roles. The old mafia QT can be found here:


https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/UpLsiz5FYSp
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #113 on: December 09, 2016, 10:57:22 am »

All QTs have been updated! N0 begins now and lasts at least 24 hours.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Night 0)
« Reply #114 on: December 11, 2016, 04:05:11 am »

The paths that life takes aren't always so obvious. We live in a chaotic world; causation is not linear. We like that think that what happened earlier is the reason for what happened after, yet this is but a perspective we choose. What is there really to say that the American Revolution did not give rise to Luther's reformation? That Nostradamus did not foretell the rise of Hitler? That Picasso did not inspire Michelangelo?

Within a great conflux, the very lives of twelve individuals scattered across different times, different places, even different realities may be connected, intertwined. Maybe history does not so much repeat itself as it takes place at many different places at once. But humans are trapped within their own plane of existence, unable to grasp the truth that lies hidden.


Day 1 begins!

Vote Count 1.0


Not Voting (12): LaLight, Calamitas, gkrieg13, Witherweaver, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, silverspawn, J Reggie, teamlyle, Eevee, mcmcsalot, pacovf

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends December 18 at 4 am forum time.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #115 on: December 11, 2016, 06:28:44 am »

Good morning everyone! :-)

Vote: mcmcsalot (Hi! I don't think we've met!)
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #116 on: December 11, 2016, 06:41:16 am »

someone doesn't like physics!

vote: Robz
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #117 on: December 11, 2016, 08:29:32 am »

Top of the morning!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #118 on: December 11, 2016, 08:40:37 am »

hi everyone! I jus woke up so good morning indeed!

vote: Eevee, glad to be in a same game!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #119 on: December 11, 2016, 08:53:07 am »

Well everything I said in my previous first post applies, except for the part about being back on the mafia train. That was because I was the tracker. I'm not the tracker anymore.

Oh and vote: Ww because I always scumread you.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #120 on: December 11, 2016, 09:54:07 am »

vote: J Reggie
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #121 on: December 11, 2016, 10:07:22 am »

vote: J Reggie

Oh and also I'm not mafia. So you can move your vote.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #122 on: December 11, 2016, 10:47:59 am »

Claiming non-tracker for no reason is a good reason to vote this early.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #123 on: December 11, 2016, 11:04:34 am »

vote: WW

Also this will be my first time not being mafia in a 9++ setup
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #124 on: December 11, 2016, 11:12:28 am »

why "will be"? Why not "is"?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #125 on: December 11, 2016, 11:18:16 am »

Since someone is going to be bring it up anyways, should we just agree on no claiming theory talk to avoid someone tipping off their role? If you agree, no reason to comment on this.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #126 on: December 11, 2016, 11:56:15 am »

vote: J Reggie because claiming non-tracker is as good a reason as any to vote for someone this early into the game.

I hadn't read the setup before /in-ing, but after being assigned scum for the briefest of times, I kind of read it in detail.

Ha! Now you can't use the "fact" that reading the setup is scummy against me, I have the perfect alibi! :p

Also nice to see some old faces around.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #127 on: December 11, 2016, 12:18:09 pm »

Hi everyone. Redemption time for me! (I swear, if someone calls me out for being "scummy" for some silly reason I'm going to be so done.)

Vote: Eevee

Gl all!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #128 on: December 11, 2016, 12:20:43 pm »

Hi everyone. Redemption time for me! (I swear, if someone calls me out for being "scummy" for some silly reason I'm going to be so done.)

Vote: Eevee

Gl all!

Using 2 exclamation points?  Super scummy :)))))))
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #129 on: December 11, 2016, 12:40:11 pm »

Claiming non-tracker for no reason is a good reason to vote this early.

It's not for no reason. I have a reason.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #130 on: December 11, 2016, 01:05:19 pm »

Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #131 on: December 11, 2016, 01:05:45 pm »

vote: WW

Also this will be my first time not being mafia in a 9++ setup

Vote: Gkrieg
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #132 on: December 11, 2016, 01:09:07 pm »

vote: WW

Also this will be my first time not being mafia in a 9++ setup

This is straight up not true. But considering the deathproof town thing in rewind, it's not alignment-indicative.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #133 on: December 11, 2016, 01:18:57 pm »

Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO.
Interesting. I see no reason not to believe this.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #134 on: December 11, 2016, 01:33:04 pm »

vote: WW

Also this will be my first time not being mafia in a 9++ setup

This is straight up not true. But considering the deathproof town thing in rewind, it's not alignment-indicative.

Wait is it really not true?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #135 on: December 11, 2016, 01:35:17 pm »

Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO.
Interesting. I see no reason not to believe this.

Could be mafia preemptively explaining their survival through the game though.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #136 on: December 11, 2016, 01:44:17 pm »

Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO.

Hmm, well now we have to discuss whether it would make sense for town to claim this. The PGO reflexively kills whomever targets them, right? I guess this protects our town PRs, but it also tips off the scum. Not sure confessing was the pro-town thing to do. But on the other hand I don't really see scum!WW starting off the game like this.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #137 on: December 11, 2016, 01:49:06 pm »

Good morning everyone! :-)

Vote: mcmcsalot (Hi! I don't think we've met!)

For those who don't know, mcmcsalot is another one of our super vets back from retirement. He is my younger brother in real life.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #138 on: December 11, 2016, 01:49:33 pm »

So, while we wait, anyone have any opinions on how 1-shot PGO should be played?

I feel it's a role with a lot of possibilites.

"Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO."
This if from before the game began.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #139 on: December 11, 2016, 01:50:39 pm »

Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO.

Hmm, well now we have to discuss whether it would make sense for town to claim this. The PGO reflexively kills whomever targets them, right? I guess this protects our town PRs, but it also tips off the scum. Not sure confessing was the pro-town thing to do. But on the other hand I don't really see scum!WW starting off the game like this.

Note that it takes a single extra letter being rolled for a revealed 1-shot PGO to be useless, since mafia gets both a roleblocker and a 1-shot ninja.

If he is town, I guess he is claiming to get the conversation started.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #140 on: December 11, 2016, 01:52:00 pm »

So, while we wait, anyone have any opinions on how 1-shot PGO should be played?

I feel it's a role with a lot of possibilites.

"Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO."
This if from before the game began.

Lying town is anti-town, so I hope that's not it.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #141 on: December 11, 2016, 01:52:04 pm »

Since someone is going to be bring it up anyways, should we just agree on no claiming theory talk to avoid someone tipping off their role? If you agree, no reason to comment on this.

Okay, so I automatically agreed with everything Eevee said in the last game because... we were scum together. Not letting you off so easily this time, buddy.

What did you mean by the above statement? I didn't understand.

I personally wouldn't mind a little discussion of the setup. I'm curious what people think of these weirdo voting roles. They haven't made an appearance in any game thus far (during my absence), have they?
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silverspawn

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #142 on: December 11, 2016, 01:56:58 pm »

For those who don't know, mcmcsalot is another one of our super vets back from retirement. He is my younger brother in real life.

I did not know that!

Hmm, well now we have to discuss whether it would make sense for town to claim this.

It has the downside of giving scum additional information
It has the upside of helping with claims later, and also of bypassing RVS Ė hopefully.

For PGO, the downside may be very low. The upside isn't huge either, but it could be good.

Since it is WW doing it I wouldn't expect a utility calculation anyway, though, so since there are reasonable upsides, I think it is definitely possible as a town move. I don't think scum has that much motivation for this kind of fakeclaim, so I'll even give him townpoints.
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silverspawn

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #143 on: December 11, 2016, 01:57:50 pm »

with "it could be good" I meant "the entire package could be good".
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #144 on: December 11, 2016, 02:05:21 pm »

Seems like a solid analysis, silverspawn.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #145 on: December 11, 2016, 02:47:33 pm »

vote: WW

Also this will be my first time not being mafia in a 9++ setup

This is straight up not true. But considering the deathproof town thing in rewind, it's not alignment-indicative.

Wait is it really not true?

Scout mafia.

Also, I feel like its more likely for you to think you've been mafia in every 9++ game if you're mafia here. vote: gkrieg

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #146 on: December 11, 2016, 02:54:47 pm »

vote: WW

Also this will be my first time not being mafia in a 9++ setup

This is straight up not true. But considering the deathproof town thing in rewind, it's not alignment-indicative.

Wait is it really not true?

Scout mafia.

Also, I feel like its more likely for you to think you've been mafia in every 9++ game if you're mafia here. vote: gkrieg

You are correct. It is something I thought about when I drew scum. So now I thought of it again because I'm town and am actually excited to be town.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #147 on: December 11, 2016, 04:07:30 pm »

Since someone is going to be bring it up anyways, should we just agree on no claiming theory talk to avoid someone tipping off their role? If you agree, no reason to comment on this.

Okay, so I automatically agreed with everything Eevee said in the last game because... we were scum together. Not letting you off so easily this time, buddy.

What did you mean by the above statement? I didn't understand.

I personally wouldn't mind a little discussion of the setup. I'm curious what people think of these weirdo voting roles. They haven't made an appearance in any game thus far (during my absence), have they?
The pleasure is all mine!

I feel mafia usually gets something out of the claiming discussion when people inadvertently let something slip about their roles. If we want to have setup discussion, that's the trade-off.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #148 on: December 11, 2016, 04:18:46 pm »

I don't think it's super likely for scum!ww to decides o put himself out there so early for no reason.

Also I agree eevee's statement about no claiming is worrying. Unlike ww's claim, scum!eeve benefits from seeming like he's helping town whilst killing potential discussions that get the game started.

vote: eevee
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #149 on: December 11, 2016, 04:20:12 pm »

Good morning everyone! :-)

Vote: mcmcsalot (Hi! I don't think we've met!)

Hi I don't believe we have eithe. Wonderful to play with you, quick question are you a dirty mafia member.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #150 on: December 11, 2016, 05:09:20 pm »

vote: WW

Also this will be my first time not being mafia in a 9++ setup

This is straight up not true. But considering the deathproof town thing in rewind, it's not alignment-indicative.

Wait is it really not true?

Scout mafia.

Also, I feel like its more likely for you to think you've been mafia in every 9++ game if you're mafia here. vote: gkrieg

You are correct. It is something I thought about when I drew scum. So now I thought of it again because I'm town and am actually excited to be town.

Can someone elaborate on this incredibly specific feud? I feel like I missed something.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #151 on: December 11, 2016, 05:15:38 pm »

I stop playing Mafia and suddenly nobody knows what a joke is.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #152 on: December 11, 2016, 05:17:22 pm »

I stop playing Mafia and suddenly nobody knows what a joke is.
Claim cancelled?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #153 on: December 11, 2016, 05:25:16 pm »

I stop playing Mafia and suddenly nobody knows what a joke is.

Wait, what? We were suppose to take your claim as a joke? It did not at all sound like a joke.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #154 on: December 11, 2016, 05:25:32 pm »

Vote: WitherWeaver

I hate jokes anyway.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #155 on: December 11, 2016, 05:25:52 pm »

Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO.

What is the joke?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #156 on: December 11, 2016, 05:29:14 pm »

Woah woah woah, this needs to be sorted out asap. Are you joking or not WW?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #157 on: December 11, 2016, 05:29:43 pm »

Can someone elaborate on this incredibly specific feud? I feel like I missed something.

Gkrieg thought he had never been town in a 9++ setup, and I told him had. I then realized that scum!gkrieg would be more likely to think of that. Which turned out to be true, but since we restarted the game that's no longer alignment indicative.

So vote: Robz because you're scum with Eevee.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #158 on: December 11, 2016, 06:01:46 pm »

Good morning everyone! :-)

Vote: mcmcsalot (Hi! I don't think we've met!)

Hi I don't believe we have eithe. Wonderful to play with you, quick question are you a dirty mafia member.

Nope! I'm squeaky clean and townie :-)
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #159 on: December 11, 2016, 06:02:20 pm »

I stop playing Mafia and suddenly nobody knows what a joke is.

I'm still relatively new and all, but I've been given the distinct impression that around here, jokes are those things that aren't funny unless they get explained really well, in great detail...
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #160 on: December 11, 2016, 07:54:44 pm »

Ambiguity about whether something was a claim or not is really bad.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #161 on: December 11, 2016, 08:43:18 pm »

Scum shaming just about everyone not voting witherweaver at this point.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #162 on: December 11, 2016, 08:50:31 pm »

This is one of those "Sure, but it's more something scum would shy away from doing" situations.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #163 on: December 11, 2016, 09:00:48 pm »

This is one of those "Sure, but it's more something scum would shy away from doing" situations.

I dunno. Perhaps WW's scum plan was to claim PGO, and then after doing so he realized it was a bad idea for some reason, and is now playing it off as a joke.

I mean, that seems sort of farfetched I suppose, but I did not read the initial assertion as a joke AT ALL.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #164 on: December 11, 2016, 09:03:52 pm »

This is one of those "Sure, but it's more something scum would shy away from doing" situations.

I dunno. Perhaps WW's scum plan was to claim PGO, and then after doing so he realized it was a bad idea for some reason, and is now playing it off as a joke.

I mean, that seems sort of farfetched I suppose, but I did not read the initial assertion as a joke AT ALL.
Well, he used exactly the same phrase as before the start of the game.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #165 on: December 11, 2016, 09:08:18 pm »

This is one of those "Sure, but it's more something scum would shy away from doing" situations.

I dunno. Perhaps WW's scum plan was to claim PGO, and then after doing so he realized it was a bad idea for some reason, and is now playing it off as a joke.

I mean, that seems sort of farfetched I suppose, but I did not read the initial assertion as a joke AT ALL.
Well, he used exactly the same phrase as before the start of the game.

Oh. Did not remember that.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #166 on: December 11, 2016, 09:17:34 pm »

This is one of those "Sure, but it's more something scum would shy away from doing" situations.

I dunno. Perhaps WW's scum plan was to claim PGO, and then after doing so he realized it was a bad idea for some reason, and is now playing it off as a joke.

I mean, that seems sort of farfetched I suppose, but I did not read the initial assertion as a joke AT ALL.
Well, he used exactly the same phrase as before the start of the game.

Oh. Did not remember that.

I don't think that actually matters. If anything, it just provides scum more protection to make such a claim.
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Calamitas

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #167 on: December 11, 2016, 09:18:41 pm »

This is one of those "Sure, but it's more something scum would shy away from doing" situations.

I dunno. Perhaps WW's scum plan was to claim PGO, and then after doing so he realized it was a bad idea for some reason, and is now playing it off as a joke.

I mean, that seems sort of farfetched I suppose, but I did not read the initial assertion as a joke AT ALL.
Well, he used exactly the same phrase as before the start of the game.

Oh. Did not remember that.

I don't think that actually matters. If anything, it just provides scum more protection to make such a claim.
It matters, it increases the probability of him making a joke by a landslide.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #168 on: December 11, 2016, 09:20:05 pm »

I really think innocent joke is a much more likely scenario than a scum plot that was suddenly abandoned for no reason at all.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #169 on: December 11, 2016, 09:50:24 pm »

So, uh, WW, just to be clear: are you a PGO?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #170 on: December 11, 2016, 10:54:15 pm »

Did no one read the thread before the game started?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #171 on: December 11, 2016, 10:55:37 pm »

I wonder how much these discussions are going to affect the game.
They probably won't at all :D

I like to falsify things people say.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #172 on: December 11, 2016, 10:57:57 pm »

I wonder how much these discussions are going to affect the game.
They probably won't at all :D

I like to falsify things people say.
I didn't make a definite statement so you didn't falsify me there :P
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Witherweaver

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (About to be restarted)
« Reply #173 on: December 11, 2016, 10:59:41 pm »

I wonder how much these discussions are going to affect the game.
They probably won't at all :D

I like to falsify things people say.
I didn't make a definite statement so you didn't falsify me there :P

Okay but I can still say 'haha you were wrong' :P
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #174 on: December 11, 2016, 11:08:12 pm »

So, uh, WW, just to be clear: are you a PGO?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #175 on: December 11, 2016, 11:31:30 pm »

Wait I really don't understand why this isn't clearly a joke.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #176 on: December 11, 2016, 11:32:20 pm »

I don't think that WW wants to claim so let's just leave him be. It seems scummy to pressure someone into claiming.
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"Come on man, let the plat play." -The Plat
"It's nice to have a good 'in your face' every once in a while." -Jacob
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #177 on: December 11, 2016, 11:40:58 pm »

So, what, we are just going to let people claim without being accountable for it?

Sure, next we know scum will be claiming tracker at L-1, and then be all like "haha I claimed what now? no no I was joking duh" the next day.

If WW does not want to claim now, that's fine with me, but if he comes out later saying that he actually is a PGO, I am voting for him and keeping my vote there. Due to the setup, even a single town being unclear about his role means that scum can't be counterclaimed anymore.
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teamlyle

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #178 on: December 11, 2016, 11:43:15 pm »

If WW does not want to claim now, that's fine with me, but if he comes out later saying that he actually is a PGO, I am voting for him and keeping my vote there. Due to the setup, even a single town being unclear about his role means that scum can't be counterclaimed anymore.

That's fair enough I think. He could be "claiming" PGO in order to not get tracked.
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"In your face." -Jacob
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"You gotta do your homework, dude!" -Yul
"Come on man, let the plat play." -The Plat
"It's nice to have a good 'in your face' every once in a while." -Jacob
"OBJECTION!!! The witness is being SUPER gross." -Phoenix Wright
"Milord, Inquisitor Fey sentences that burger to my stomach!" -Maya Fey
"Dude, I only had 4 cups of coffee this morning so I'm gonna crash." -Swi
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #179 on: December 12, 2016, 12:15:49 am »

PGO is one-night anyway right?  So even with that knowledge it's still a little bit of WIFOM when e chooses to use it.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #180 on: December 12, 2016, 12:25:10 am »

Hey!

Was VLA, will catch up soon. For now looks like RVS is done which is fine :)
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #181 on: December 12, 2016, 02:39:02 am »

Huh, I haven't believed WW for a second (does that mean I know what the joke is? I even chuckled seeing his claim)
And I don't like how Robz is trying to move that to a wagon. So, semi-serious Vote: Robz888
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #182 on: December 12, 2016, 06:32:58 am »

Well Robz is always scum.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #183 on: December 12, 2016, 08:32:42 am »

I'm more suspicious of the people going out of their way to find an obvious joke scummy than I am of WW (who was kidding and didn't mean the claim to mean anything, guys).
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #184 on: December 12, 2016, 08:57:50 am »

Wait I really don't understand why this isn't clearly a joke.

because people have stuff on their mind and don't remember the pregame.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #185 on: December 12, 2016, 09:25:19 am »

I think

Vote: Robz
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #186 on: December 12, 2016, 09:35:40 am »

Is scumRobz a hothead though? To me his reaction read more like somneone letting their frustration cloud their judgement. I feel mafia would want to be a little more subtle about something like this.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #187 on: December 12, 2016, 09:38:32 am »

I don't think it's super likely for scum!ww to decides o put himself out there so early for no reason.

Also I agree eevee's statement about no claiming is worrying. Unlike ww's claim, scum!eeve benefits from seeming like he's helping town whilst killing potential discussions that get the game started.

vote: eevee

I read this as a typo in the first sentence. You meant unlikely, right?

Scum shaming just about everyone not voting witherweaver at this point.
This looks wayyy scummier for me - pushing the "case" that seemed to have at least some people behind it, going even to the length of shaming people who aren't voting for WW - while simultaneously not voting for him themself.

Vote: mcmc
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #188 on: December 12, 2016, 10:05:57 am »

Woah woah woah, this needs to be sorted out asap. Are you joking or not WW?

I agree with Eevee. Vote: mcmc
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"In your face." -Jacob
"Ooh. You just got burned." -Jack
"First place again, disciple!" -Ruikai
"Ugh... 399 cursors. Time to hack!" -Ben
"You gotta do your homework, dude!" -Yul
"Come on man, let the plat play." -The Plat
"It's nice to have a good 'in your face' every once in a while." -Jacob
"OBJECTION!!! The witness is being SUPER gross." -Phoenix Wright
"Milord, Inquisitor Fey sentences that burger to my stomach!" -Maya Fey
"Dude, I only had 4 cups of coffee this morning so I'm gonna crash." -Swi
"Okay, okay. My team name is: Team Lyle: the Advancing Armadillo." -Lyle
"Iím sorry Cedric, we just have to do what we have to do to get me to be a op." -Paul
"Well, I prefer loyal people. I donít want anyone to be a La-Ya except for me." -La-Ya
"I don't play Monkey vs. Monkey. I'm too busy in pacifist mode, watching my buildings survive and thrive!" -Joshua
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #189 on: December 12, 2016, 10:29:53 am »

Describing Robz thus far as a hothead seems quite an exaggeration. 
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #190 on: December 12, 2016, 10:30:44 am »

Yep, Robz and Eevee are scum. And just to be clear, I didn't read the game where they were scum together recently, but I know they would play differently here. Or even better one would and the other wouldn't.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #191 on: December 12, 2016, 10:35:37 am »

Yep, Robz and Eevee are scum. And just to be clear, I didn't read the game where they were scum together recently, but I know they would play differently here. Or even better one would and the other wouldn't.

So does anyone know how they played in that game?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #192 on: December 12, 2016, 10:36:43 am »

Describing Robz thus far as a hothead seems quite an exaggeration.
Hotheaded with wielding his vote. Voting for you for looks like an emotional reaction, rather than a result of any analysis.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #193 on: December 12, 2016, 10:37:50 am »

Or a fake reaction.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #194 on: December 12, 2016, 10:42:10 am »

Or a fake reaction.
Yeah. But is being trigger-happy over nothing (how I feel about that joke's relevance to your alignment) really what he'd want to fake?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #195 on: December 12, 2016, 10:44:00 am »

Or a fake reaction.
Yeah. But is being trigger-happy over nothing (how I feel about that joke's relevance to your alignment) really what he'd want to fake?

Sure; being scum is hard and you feel the need to say things about things.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #196 on: December 12, 2016, 10:45:22 am »

Yep, Robz and Eevee are scum. And just to be clear, I didn't read the game where they were scum together recently, but I know they would play differently here. Or even better one would and the other wouldn't.

So does anyone know how they played in that game?

I was the third scum with them :-) It's the only game I've ever had with Eevee, and he seemed nice and friendly. Eevee and Robz actively decided there to play there as if they're pleased to see each other, and to work with the fact that people are unlikely to want to lynch off a returning vet too quickly. That might be something to watch out for here, too.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #197 on: December 12, 2016, 10:45:32 am »

Yep, Robz and Eevee are scum. And just to be clear, I didn't read the game where they were scum together recently, but I know they would play differently here. Or even better one would and the other wouldn't.
It's funny, in that game I was a nervous wreck all the time thinking they are one step away from catching me. Now that I'm town, your words can't hurt me!

Also, nice to meet you! I think it's our first game together. You seem the kind of guy who gets things moving, that's a quality in a person I really appreciate when playing these games.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #198 on: December 12, 2016, 11:15:48 am »

Yep, Robz and Eevee are scum. And just to be clear, I didn't read the game where they were scum together recently, but I know they would play differently here. Or even better one would and the other wouldn't.
It's funny, in that game I was a nervous wreck all the time thinking they are one step away from catching me. Now that I'm town, your words can't hurt me!

Also, nice to meet you! I think it's our first game together. You seem the kind of guy who gets things moving, that's a quality in a person I really appreciate when playing these games.

One thing I know about you from reading the end of forum survivor is that you're really likeable and good at forming individual relationships with people. So while I appreciate the compliment, I don't think it means you're town necessarily.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #199 on: December 12, 2016, 11:53:38 am »

Yep, Robz and Eevee are scum. And just to be clear, I didn't read the game where they were scum together recently, but I know they would play differently here. Or even better one would and the other wouldn't.
It's funny, in that game I was a nervous wreck all the time thinking they are one step away from catching me. Now that I'm town, your words can't hurt me!

Also, nice to meet you! I think it's our first game together. You seem the kind of guy who gets things moving, that's a quality in a person I really appreciate when playing these games.

Hmmm.

Eevee used the "flatter strategy" last game and fooled you all. He did it to me in forum survivor too (not meaning it in a bad way, you played really well in forum survivor.) I'm not going to change my vote since I'm still suspicious of mcmc, but just saying I find this scummy.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #200 on: December 12, 2016, 12:00:19 pm »

That's just Eevee being Eevee though.

For the record, I don't think WW's joke was scummy per se, but I dislike his refusal to state clearly whether he is a PGO. While I understand why he wouldn't want to do so as town, it sets a dangerous precedent that scum will be more than happy to abuse.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #201 on: December 12, 2016, 12:01:27 pm »

Yeah. He also changed the subject instead of saying he'd rather not claim.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #202 on: December 12, 2016, 12:01:45 pm »

vote: eevee
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #203 on: December 12, 2016, 12:05:37 pm »

I don't see any reason why I should claim.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #204 on: December 12, 2016, 12:06:12 pm »

I mean, I was never claiming PGO, which should have been very clear.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #205 on: December 12, 2016, 12:25:55 pm »

Yep, Robz and Eevee are scum. And just to be clear, I didn't read the game where they were scum together recently, but I know they would play differently here. Or even better one would and the other wouldn't.
It's funny, in that game I was a nervous wreck all the time thinking they are one step away from catching me. Now that I'm town, your words can't hurt me!

Also, nice to meet you! I think it's our first game together. You seem the kind of guy who gets things moving, that's a quality in a person I really appreciate when playing these games.

Hmmm.

Eevee used the "flatter strategy" last game and fooled you all. He did it to me in forum survivor too (not meaning it in a bad way, you played really well in forum survivor.) I'm not going to change my vote since I'm still suspicious of mcmc, but just saying I find this scummy.
Just trying to make this a pleasant environment for people to play! I did mean what I said too.

I distinctly even recall winning an award a few years back for being so nice to people in mafia games. I don't think I like this development of people thinking me being nice has to have a nefarious purpose now.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #206 on: December 12, 2016, 12:30:02 pm »

Eevee buddying is not scummy.

WW not clarifying is not scummy either. he's not supposed to claim non-PGO. He said it was a joke. he didn't claim.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #207 on: December 12, 2016, 12:38:03 pm »

I think

Vote: Robz

Describing Robz thus far as a hothead seems quite an exaggeration.

Well, which is it? You didn't explain your vote--of course--but I presume it was the same reason Calamitas voted for me, because I found your joke scummy. I didn't realize it was a joke when I voted for you, because there was no context whatsoever if you had missed your earlier statement, so I don't see how this is an indictment of me.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #208 on: December 12, 2016, 12:38:35 pm »

Is scumRobz a hothead though? To me his reaction read more like somneone letting their frustration cloud their judgement. I feel mafia would want to be a little more subtle about something like this.

I don't know if I was frustrated before. I'm sort of frustrated now.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #209 on: December 12, 2016, 12:40:52 pm »

I mean, I was never claiming PGO, which should have been very clear.

I'm a Jailkeeper.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #210 on: December 12, 2016, 12:41:08 pm »

(It should be really clear I'm not claiming Jailkeeper, though.)
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #211 on: December 12, 2016, 12:41:28 pm »

Why is no one laughing?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #212 on: December 12, 2016, 12:42:28 pm »

Is scumRobz a hothead though? To me his reaction read more like somneone letting their frustration cloud their judgement. I feel mafia would want to be a little more subtle about something like this.

I don't know if I was frustrated before. I'm sort of frustrated now.
What's making you frustrated?

If it's WW's joke, the onus is on him for making it clear to readers that he's kidding, but isn't this also a no harm no foul situation?

I guess, walking down the path what if WW is scum, they did get to fish for counterclaims "for free" here. Really creative if that's what happened, but doesn't feel likely to me.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #213 on: December 12, 2016, 12:43:12 pm »

If it's any consolation, I found your joke about as funny as WW's :P
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #214 on: December 12, 2016, 12:44:07 pm »

Is scumRobz a hothead though? To me his reaction read more like somneone letting their frustration cloud their judgement. I feel mafia would want to be a little more subtle about something like this.

I don't know if I was frustrated before. I'm sort of frustrated now.
What's making you frustrated?

If it's WW's joke, the onus is on him for making it clear to readers that he's kidding, but isn't this also a no harm no foul situation?

I guess, walking down the path what if WW is scum, they did get to fish for counterclaims "for free" here. Really creative if that's what happened, but doesn't feel likely to me.

Now that I have a full and clear understanding of what happened, I don't think it's particularly scummy to make that joke, no. It's a little scummy to allow the ambiguity to persist for a while, but whatever. I'm frustrated that people don't get that.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #215 on: December 12, 2016, 12:45:19 pm »

I don't agree with that. I think it's anti-town to let the ambiguity continue, but I don't think anti town behavior is a scum tell for WW.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #216 on: December 12, 2016, 12:58:38 pm »

Vote Count 1.1

mcmcsalot (3): SpaceAnemone, Eevee, teamlyle
Eevee (2): mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
Witherweaver (1): Robz888
J Reggie (2): silverspawn, pacovf
Robz888 (3): J Reggie, LaLight, Witherweaver

Not Voting (1): Calamitas

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends December 18 at 4 am forum time.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #217 on: December 12, 2016, 04:17:28 pm »

Why is no one laughing?

Oh.. I kind of am actually! Just a bit of a delayed reaction :-)
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #218 on: December 12, 2016, 04:32:02 pm »

Eevee buddying is not scummy.

WW not clarifying is not scummy either. he's not supposed to claim non-PGO. He said it was a joke. he didn't claim.

This is true. Claiming whether or not he's a PGO (or other role) leaves the game in a state where there's more claimed information than we had to begin with, and therefore is not the same as "undoing" the joke.

I think the ambiguity he left us with was interesting for a while... maybe it's a scum move to see what people do, but also the rest of us get to observe everyone's reactions, and it moved the early game along nicely, so I don't think that's so bad. I disagree with Eevee's thing about scum possibly fishing for counterclaims (#212), because it's perfectly possible to have up to three PGOs in the game (rolling Vs and Ws), or at least two PGOs in conjunction with any other role in the game, so there's nothing to fish for there.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #219 on: December 12, 2016, 04:35:33 pm »

I didn't actually consider any counter-claiming scenario. 
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #220 on: December 12, 2016, 04:44:10 pm »

Eevee buddying is not scummy.

WW not clarifying is not scummy either. he's not supposed to claim non-PGO. He said it was a joke. he didn't claim.

This is true. Claiming whether or not he's a PGO (or other role) leaves the game in a state where there's more claimed information than we had to begin with, and therefore is not the same as "undoing" the joke.

I think the ambiguity he left us with was interesting for a while... maybe it's a scum move to see what people do, but also the rest of us get to observe everyone's reactions, and it moved the early game along nicely, so I don't think that's so bad. I disagree with Eevee's thing about scum possibly fishing for counterclaims (#212), because it's perfectly possible to have up to three PGOs in the game (rolling Vs and Ws), or at least two PGOs in conjunction with any other role in the game, so there's nothing to fish for there.
My mistake, I didn't know there could be multiples.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #221 on: December 12, 2016, 04:48:08 pm »

I don't agree with that. I think it's anti-town to let the ambiguity continue, but I don't think anti town behavior is a scum tell for WW.

What would be scum-indicative behaviour, coming from WW, in your opinion?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #222 on: December 12, 2016, 05:33:44 pm »

I disagree with Eevee's thing about scum possibly fishing for counterclaims (#212), because it's perfectly possible to have up to three PGOs in the game (rolling Vs and Ws), or at least two PGOs in conjunction with any other role in the game, so there's nothing to fish for there.

I was going to say that isn't true, but turns out I hadn't understood how W worked. Huh. Ok.


I don't agree with that. I think it's anti-town to let the ambiguity continue, but I don't think anti town behavior is a scum tell for WW.

What would be scum-indicative behaviour, coming from WW, in your opinion?

This is a good question.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #223 on: December 12, 2016, 07:07:31 pm »

Yep, Robz and Eevee are scum. And just to be clear, I didn't read the game where they were scum together recently, but I know they would play differently here. Or even better one would and the other wouldn't.
It's funny, in that game I was a nervous wreck all the time thinking they are one step away from catching me. Now that I'm town, your words can't hurt me!

Also, nice to meet you! I think it's our first game together. You seem the kind of guy who gets things moving, that's a quality in a person I really appreciate when playing these games.

Hmmm.

Eevee used the "flatter strategy" last game and fooled you all. He did it to me in forum survivor too (not meaning it in a bad way, you played really well in forum survivor.) I'm not going to change my vote since I'm still suspicious of mcmc, but just saying I find this scummy.
Just trying to make this a pleasant environment for people to play! I did mean what I said too.

I distinctly even recall winning an award a few years back for being so nice to people in mafia games. I don't think I like this development of people thinking me being nice has to have a nefarious purpose now.

Sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean a "nefarious" purpose, I just meant that if you were scum you could use that to your advantage.
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"Come on man, let the plat play." -The Plat
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #224 on: December 12, 2016, 09:00:36 pm »

I don't agree with that. I think it's anti-town to let the ambiguity continue, but I don't think anti town behavior is a scum tell for WW.

What would be scum-indicative behaviour, coming from WW, in your opinion?

This is a good question.

... to ask yourself silently! But less to to answer here.
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Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #225 on: December 12, 2016, 09:20:28 pm »

I don't agree with that. I think it's anti-town to let the ambiguity continue, but I don't think anti town behavior is a scum tell for WW.

What would be scum-indicative behaviour, coming from WW, in your opinion?

This is a good question.

... to ask yourself silently! But less to to answer here.

Why?
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silverspawn

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #226 on: December 12, 2016, 09:36:01 pm »

I don't agree with that. I think it's anti-town to let the ambiguity continue, but I don't think anti town behavior is a scum tell for WW.

What would be scum-indicative behaviour, coming from WW, in your opinion?

This is a good question.

... to ask yourself silently! But less to to answer here.

Why?

Because ww's reading, and he's hard enough to detect without giving him hints what to pay attention to.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #227 on: December 13, 2016, 12:32:04 am »

Because ww's reading, and he's hard enough to detect without giving him hints what to pay attention to.

I agree that WW is hard to detect, but I think that is not because he knows how to not be scummy.  You can say that it is difficult D1 to detect scum!WW and you would be correct.
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pacovf

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #228 on: December 13, 2016, 02:09:55 am »

After a super fast reread, I don't like mcmc nor teamlyle. mcmc is superbuddying Robz and giving me the bad feels, Teamlyle is throwing suspicion on Eevee in a very hedgy, non-committal way.

I think I like what I've seen from Calamitas and silver.

I am annoyed by ww, but silver is right in that it's not an alignment tell for ww.

vote: mcmc
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #229 on: December 13, 2016, 08:50:55 am »

That's just Eevee being Eevee though.

For the record, I don't think WW's joke was scummy per se, but I dislike his refusal to state clearly whether he is a PGO. While I understand why he wouldn't want to do so as town, it sets a dangerous precedent that scum will be more than happy to abuse.

This is the big deal. WW has almost refused to comment on what was definitely a claim, fake or not. (the amount of people saying I knew it was a joke is ridiculous)

It's one of those situations where ww is either scum or was anti town right out of the gate and there are a strange number of people specifically eevee, defending ww after then I expect.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #230 on: December 13, 2016, 08:53:04 am »

After a super fast reread, I don't like mcmc nor teamlyle. mcmc is superbuddying Robz and giving me the bad feels, Teamlyle is throwing suspicion on Eevee in a very hedgy, non-committal way.

I think I like what I've seen from Calamitas and silver.

I am annoyed by ww, but silver is right in that it's not an alignment tell for ww.

vote: mcmc

Robz and I are super close, restating we are brothers in a game where I don't know robz alignment will help in future games. Let it be known robz and I will always have a "strange thing" going on between us as all our comments are colored by our relationship.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #231 on: December 13, 2016, 08:54:21 am »

I mean, I was never claiming PGO, which should have been very clear.

Good a comment finally. Now vote:eevee
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #232 on: December 13, 2016, 09:00:16 am »

I don't agree with that. I think it's anti-town to let the ambiguity continue, but I don't think anti town behavior is a scum tell for WW.

What would be scum-indicative behaviour, coming from WW, in your opinion?

This is a good question.

... to ask yourself silently! But less to to answer here.

Why?

I also think that this interaction is strange though I believe that is because they are implying this so called "humor" I am hearing about which has no place in a game of deceit.

All in all it's not that intriguing what silver thinks is scum behavior for we but anyone's thoughts on scum behavior of anyone is helpful to discuss...again I think this in the long run means very little.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #233 on: December 13, 2016, 09:26:16 am »

What would be scum-indicative behaviour, coming from WW, in your opinion?

This is a good question.

... to ask yourself silently! But less to to answer here.

Why?

I also think that this interaction is strange though I believe that is because they are implying this so called "humor" I am hearing about which has no place in a game of deceit.

All in all it's not that intriguing what silver thinks is scum behavior for we but anyone's thoughts on scum behavior of anyone is helpful to discuss...again I think this in the long run means very little.
I assume "we" should be "WW", there.

The comment from silver that kicked it off was:
I think it's anti-town to let the ambiguity continue, but I don't think anti town behavior is a scum tell for WW.
(Annoyingly, the pyramid-quoting limit won't let me quote this all as a pyramid.)

Anyway, I don't see where your (mcmc's) humour issue is. I think the conversation makes sense. Silver asserts that WW plays anti-town in a scum or a town alignment, so he doesn't think WW is being necessarily scummy by doing something anti-town. I felt that silver's comment gave him too much license to town-read a potential scum-buddy, so I made a comment to highlight that, which Paco also seemed to agree was an issue. No humour going on here so far...

Silver's defence of his comment -- that it's not good to tell WW what his actual scum-tells might be -- is kind of valid, but it dodges the point that silver isn't giving the rest of us anything particularly falsifiable to work with, in terms of what he'd look like making an unjustified town-read on WW... so I'm likely just not to trust things silver says about WW for now.

Were you reading this exchange another way? If so, what am I missing?
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pacovf

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #234 on: December 13, 2016, 10:19:23 am »

After a super fast reread, I don't like mcmc nor teamlyle. mcmc is superbuddying Robz and giving me the bad feels, Teamlyle is throwing suspicion on Eevee in a very hedgy, non-committal way.

I think I like what I've seen from Calamitas and silver.

I am annoyed by ww, but silver is right in that it's not an alignment tell for ww.

vote: mcmc

Robz and I are super close, restating we are brothers in a game where I don't know robz alignment will help in future games. Let it be known robz and I will always have a "strange thing" going on between us as all our comments are colored by our relationship.

Yeah, I knew you were brothers, but still... *scratches head* anyone that has played with both of them at once can tell me whether this level of buddying is normal?
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Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #235 on: December 13, 2016, 10:20:51 am »

Where did this notion that regardless of alignment, WW plays anti-town, come from? It is 100% at odds with my memory of WW.

Mcmc buddying me is like the least alignment-indicative thing in the world.
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pacovf

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #236 on: December 13, 2016, 10:55:58 am »

I would still like an answer from somebody else, if you don't mind :)
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silverspawn

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #237 on: December 13, 2016, 11:05:52 am »

Where did this notion that regardless of alignment, WW plays anti-town, come from? It is 100% at odds with my memory of WW.

Mcmc buddying me is like the least alignment-indicative thing in the world.

I at least did not say that. I said anti-town play is not alignment-indicative. He does it as town sometimes and as scum sometimes. Not all the time.

Mcmc buddying might be normal. But is his handling of the WW thing also normal?
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Eevee

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #238 on: December 13, 2016, 11:20:33 am »

That's just Eevee being Eevee though.

For the record, I don't think WW's joke was scummy per se, but I dislike his refusal to state clearly whether he is a PGO. While I understand why he wouldn't want to do so as town, it sets a dangerous precedent that scum will be more than happy to abuse.

This is the big deal. WW has almost refused to comment on what was definitely a claim, fake or not. (the amount of people saying I knew it was a joke is ridiculous)

It's one of those situations where ww is either scum or was anti town right out of the gate and there are a strange number of people specifically eevee, defending ww after then I expect.
Bolding mine. I can't speak for others, but I read it as a legitimate claim first and reacted as such, but WW's next three posts being:

I stop playing Mafia and suddenly nobody knows what a joke is.

Did no one read the thread before the game started?

I wonder how much these discussions are going to affect the game.
They probably won't at all :D

I like to falsify things people say.

cleared all the ambiguity for me. And sure, I'd like to reiterate that I believe the onus should be on WW to make his jokes clear for other people, and the fact he didn't even think there could be counterclaim issues makes what he did definitely anti-town, but it looks more like a thoughtless mistake than a mafia ploy to me (and luckily, given the setup there was no risk, or if there was some risk I'm not seeing it seems it didn't come to be).
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Eevee

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #239 on: December 13, 2016, 11:22:09 am »


Mcmc buddying might be normal. But is his handling of the WW thing also normal?
I don't remember mcmc as particularly buddybuddy (or particularly non-buddybuddy for that matter) against Robz (although I guess they usually tend to agree on things?), but his handling of the WW thing read to me as someone who wasn't reading the thread very carefully.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #240 on: December 13, 2016, 11:40:19 am »


Mcmc buddying might be normal. But is his handling of the WW thing also normal?
I don't remember mcmc as particularly buddybuddy (or particularly non-buddybuddy for that matter) against Robz (although I guess they usually tend to agree on things?), but his handling of the WW thing read to me as someone who wasn't reading the thread very carefully.

What does that indicate for alignment?
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Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #241 on: December 13, 2016, 11:54:53 am »


Mcmc buddying might be normal. But is his handling of the WW thing also normal?
I don't remember mcmc as particularly buddybuddy (or particularly non-buddybuddy for that matter) against Robz (although I guess they usually tend to agree on things?), but his handling of the WW thing read to me as someone who wasn't reading the thread very carefully.

Yeah, I wouldn't even call it buddying as much as, we just think similarly a lot of the time. Not all the time.
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Robz888

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #242 on: December 13, 2016, 11:55:48 am »

I don't really think the WW thing is a scum master ploy either, it was just sort of annoying and I didn't get it at first, and I think that's WW's fault not mine.
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Eevee

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #243 on: December 13, 2016, 11:56:31 am »


Mcmc buddying might be normal. But is his handling of the WW thing also normal?
I don't remember mcmc as particularly buddybuddy (or particularly non-buddybuddy for that matter) against Robz (although I guess they usually tend to agree on things?), but his handling of the WW thing read to me as someone who wasn't reading the thread very carefully.
What does that indicate for alignment?
Well, regardless of alignment, I think that mcmc knows the game so well that regardless of alignment, he can analyze if any behavior is protown or antitown. That one thing? I would say scum is probably more likely to be careful, and town is more likely to try to antagonize someone, so while I disagree with the content, I'm not seeing a scum narrative.

That's not based on anything mcmc-specific though, I don't really have any specific guide in my head to reading him. One of the harder guys to read too, I used to always think he was scum and be wrong, and then be totally fooled when he finally was scum.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #244 on: December 13, 2016, 02:52:03 pm »

?
(Annoyingly, the pyramid-quoting limit won't let me quote this all as a pyramid.)

Anyway, I don't see where your (mcmc's) humour issue is. I think the conversation makes sense. Silver asserts that WW plays anti-town in a scum or a town alignment, so he doesn't think WW is being necessarily scummy by doing something anti-town. I felt that silver's comment gave him too much license to town-read a potential scum-buddy, so I made a comment to highlight that, which Paco also seemed to agree was an issue. No humour going on here so far...

Silver's defence of his comment -- that it's not good to tell WW what his actual scum-tells might be -- is kind of valid, but it dodges the point that silver isn't giving the rest of us anything particularly falsifiable to work with, in terms of what he'd look like making an unjustified town-read on WW... so I'm likely just not to trust things silver says about WW for now.

Were you reading this exchange another way? If so, what am I missing?

It wasn't so much of an issue and more of a comment about people joking being unhelpful. The series of posts seemed to be a bit confusing as silvers original response lacked complete context of why not answering the question publicly would be bad. Once silver cleared it up the reasoning actually made sense and wasn't something I had thought of. So no problems.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #245 on: December 13, 2016, 02:58:55 pm »

Also want to clarify I was most upset at other people blowing off the ww claim before ww came in and followed up.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #246 on: December 13, 2016, 03:00:32 pm »

I mean, I was never claiming PGO, which should have been very clear.

Good a comment finally. Now vote:eevee
Why me?
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #247 on: December 13, 2016, 03:25:32 pm »

I mean, I was never claiming PGO, which should have been very clear.

Good a comment finally. Now vote:eevee
Why me?
I was and am suspicious of you. I didn't realize I was voting you already at the time.ill explain why I'm voting you in the next post.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #248 on: December 13, 2016, 03:43:52 pm »

Since someone is going to be bring it up anyways, should we just agree on no claiming theory talk to avoid someone tipping off their role? If you agree, no reason to comment on this.
First we have your scummy let's not let the discussion grow organically and before anyone can comment agree on no theory talk. Slight suspicion here and shortly after we get this...

Hi guys; I'm a one-shot PGO.
Interesting. I see no reason not to believe this.
A claim and you outright believing it. Which I agree with but am not quite sure why it needs to be individually acknowledged, this is a classic "I'm contributing" post.

Then these two posts happen:
I stop playing Mafia and suddenly nobody knows what a joke is.
Claim cancelled?
I really think innocent joke is a much more likely scenario than a scum plot that was suddenly abandoned for no reason at all.
So WW comes in and makes a pretty ambiguous statement, and you latch on like obviously it's a harmless joke. Also while I agree I think WW made an anti town joke, the scum narrative here is definitely not fake claim day one and hope it works, it's to joke about a claim and provide discussion/confusion/potentially counterclaims/potentially provides an alibi.

All in all you seem to have been pushing people to believe the things that you want them to and passing it off like it's just what everyone thinks. Also how quickly you went from being super concerned about theory talk to defending WW and trying to see if you could get anyone pushing against WW lynched is super scummy. The chances that scum!eevee saw town!ww make an anti town move and you are now using that to safely scumhunt people who through shade at WW.

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Eevee

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #249 on: December 13, 2016, 04:03:40 pm »

I'll name them quotes 1-3, easier to post and it's the next post anyways.

1.) My logic was: If we are not going to massclaim anyways, talking about the merits back and forth usually results in some people slipping about having/not having a role. It was top of mind because in the just ended game where I was scum with Robz and SA, we had the "so who has a power role" hunt based on the theory talk of day 1. I don't know, I felt it was worth it to float the idea of avoiding that, especially now that more people are likely to have roles. It's not like I tried to ban theory talk, just thought to remind people that if you feel you don't want to massclaim or anyone to claim, probably the best course of action is not to talk about claiming.

2.) Eh, I was online and saw a claim early day 1 and reacted. Would do it again, would encourage others to act the same way!

To further explain myself, I outright believed it after considering if I thought it was likely WW would do that as scum (decided no, posted about it in the thread).

3. I don't think that's ambiguous - looks clear as day to me that he wouldn't say that unless he had meant it as a joke. Not sure what's happening here, but others seem to agree with me.

I don't understand your scum narrative - has anyone ever played scum like that?

It's not my intention to push people to believe anything. I'm trying to post my opinions about events in the game to discuss them and figure things out.

And meh, I just thought people throwing shade at WW were being very short-sighted, not considering "Hey, does this make sense for mafia", but just posting "Hey, it's annoying he made a bad joke, must not be on the same side as me!" out of frustration. Robz even admitted as much here:
I don't really think the WW thing is a scum master ploy either, it was just sort of annoying and I didn't get it at first, and I think that's WW's fault not mine.

I totally agree that it was WW's fault, but not that it's particularly productive to blame him for it, especially since there was no bad consequence as far as I can tell.

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #250 on: December 13, 2016, 04:20:15 pm »

not buying the eevee case.

vote: mcmc
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Calamitas

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #251 on: December 13, 2016, 04:29:43 pm »

I'll name them quotes 1-3, easier to post and it's the next post anyways.

1.) My logic was: If we are not going to massclaim anyways, talking about the merits back and forth usually results in some people slipping about having/not having a role. It was top of mind because in the just ended game where I was scum with Robz and SA, we had the "so who has a power role" hunt based on the theory talk of day 1. I don't know, I felt it was worth it to float the idea of avoiding that, especially now that more people are likely to have roles. It's not like I tried to ban theory talk, just thought to remind people that if you feel you don't want to massclaim or anyone to claim, probably the best course of action is not to talk about claiming.

2.) Eh, I was online and saw a claim early day 1 and reacted. Would do it again, would encourage others to act the same way!

To further explain myself, I outright believed it after considering if I thought it was likely WW would do that as scum (decided no, posted about it in the thread).

3. I don't think that's ambiguous - looks clear as day to me that he wouldn't say that unless he had meant it as a joke. Not sure what's happening here, but others seem to agree with me.

I don't understand your scum narrative - has anyone ever played scum like that?

It's not my intention to push people to believe anything. I'm trying to post my opinions about events in the game to discuss them and figure things out.

And meh, I just thought people throwing shade at WW were being very short-sighted, not considering "Hey, does this make sense for mafia", but just posting "Hey, it's annoying he made a bad joke, must not be on the same side as me!" out of frustration. Robz even admitted as much here:
I don't really think the WW thing is a scum master ploy either, it was just sort of annoying and I didn't get it at first, and I think that's WW's fault not mine.

I totally agree that it was WW's fault, but not that it's particularly productive to blame him for it, especially since there was no bad consequence as far as I can tell.
This basically. I don't think scum!eevee would actually try to act anti-town D1, it just doesn't make sense.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #252 on: December 13, 2016, 04:37:53 pm »

3. I don't think that's ambiguous - looks clear as day to me that he wouldn't say that unless he had meant it as a joke. Not sure what's happening here, but others seem to agree with me.

I don't understand your scum narrative - has anyone ever played scum like that?

It's not my intention to push people to believe anything. I'm trying to post my opinions about events in the game to discuss them and figure things out.

And meh, I just thought people throwing shade at WW were being very short-sighted, not considering "Hey, does this make sense for mafia", but just posting "Hey, it's annoying he made a bad joke, must not be on the same side as me!" out of frustration. Robz even admitted as much here:
I don't really think the WW thing is a scum master ploy either, it was just sort of annoying and I didn't get it at first, and I think that's WW's fault not mine.

I totally agree that it was WW's fault, but not that it's particularly productive to blame him for it, especially since there was no bad consequence as far as I can tell.

Underlined response 1. I'm sorry..."I stopped playing mafia and no one knows what a joke is" is NOT clear as day saying hey the post I made earlier where I claimed a role was 100% a joke and should be disregarded.

Underlined response 2. What don't you understand about it...I think it is plausible scum!ww makes a claim hoping to confuse people planning on saying it was just a joke when any suspicion gets turned on him for making the claim. I just thought you were downplaying things by saying it would be a bad move for scum to just fakeclaim and then drop it.

As for the rest of your defense, that would be great if I was super suspicious of ww and being shortsighted. But I always just said I wanted ww to clarify, it's because you were so confident so early and started going after people before ww clarified that is why I was voting for you.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #253 on: December 13, 2016, 04:39:03 pm »

I think I commented on this earlier, but from last game I can tell I'm more of the "so scared to become the target it's crippling" persuasion as a scum player, far from the brash "let's be antitown on purpose, they'll never catch me!" type.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #254 on: December 13, 2016, 04:39:48 pm »

@calamatis I believe you are confused, that scum narrative eevee said he doesn't believe is the scum narrative for ww acting anti town, not for eevee. And to clarify again I don't think ww is scum, but I don't like eevee downplaying the possibility that ww is.
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #255 on: December 13, 2016, 04:41:06 pm »

It was top of mind because in the just ended game where I was scum with Robz and SA, we had the "so who has a power role" hunt based on the theory talk of day 1. I don't know, I felt it was worth it to float the idea of avoiding that, especially now that more people are likely to have roles. It's not like I tried to ban theory talk, just thought to remind people that if you feel you don't want to massclaim or anyone to claim, probably the best course of action is not to talk about claiming.

But this current game is very different from LL's game, so why is that worrying for you? In terms of expectations, actually fewer townies are likely to have roles here than in LL's game: I make it that three players on average should have roles here, with a variance close to one. (LL's game turned out to have four town PRs, though with a mechanism that limited their efficacy). The big difference between that setup and this one is that there it was a completely closed invented setup, whereas here we know the distribution from which our roles have been chosen, and what all the roles are, so naturally any theory talk will be quite different.

So in terms of immediate reaction to WW's post, you've said:
To further explain myself, I outright believed it after considering if I thought it was likely WW would do that as scum (decided no, posted about it in the thread).

But then in retrospect you say this:
3. I don't think that's ambiguous - looks clear as day to me that he wouldn't say that unless he had meant it as a joke.
... which seems to be a u-turn on the outright belief front.

Not sure what's happening here, but others seem to agree with me.
I'm unconvinced by this statement, though it does illustrate mcmc's point about how you've been saying things and then "passing it off like it's just what everyone thinks" (from post #248).

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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #256 on: December 13, 2016, 04:43:09 pm »

I disagree about both your underlined points!
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Re: M90: Literature Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #257 on: December 13, 2016, 04:46:58 pm »

I feel like we're baking up a lot of the wrong trees. If Robz and Eevee are scum we're best off lynching one of them D1.

I have a plan. Each person should claim a PR that they're not. Each claim should be different from the last. This limits scum but not town.