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majiponi

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Infinite Combos
« on: November 08, 2016, 08:23:24 am »
+3

We've found 3 different ways to combo infinitely.

Villa/Ambassador
Overlord/Crown/Mandarin
Forum/Trader

We have a few ways to pin your opponent infinitely.

Possession/Forge
King's Court/Militia/Masquerade(1st Edition)
Possession/Ambassador

So I'd like to find other ways to do infinitely.
Any suggestions?
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Chris is me

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2016, 08:33:51 am »
0

Can you provide links to some of these? (Specifically the forge and Ambassador ones)
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majiponi

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2016, 08:44:01 am »
+3

Can you provide links to some of these? (Specifically the forge and Ambassador ones)

Villa/Ambassador, Overlord/Crown/Mandarin
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15366.0

Forum/Trader (Japanese Blog)
http://sp.ch.nicovideo.jp/phanta/blomaga/ar1072087

Possession/Ambassador (Japanese Video)
http://sp.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22239020

King's Court/Militia/Masquerade
Possession/Forge
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Pin
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J Reggie

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2016, 10:20:20 am »
0

Also possession/haunted Woods.

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2016, 12:06:48 pm »
0

Do you consider stalemates as infinite combos?  Something like a never-ending Ambassador war, or KC-
Thief where there's no source of economy and no way to end on piles, etc.
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SettingFraming

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2016, 12:46:10 pm »
+8

Do you consider stalemates as infinite combos?  Something like a never-ending Ambassador war, or KC-
Thief where there's no source of economy and no way to end on piles, etc.

If so, this game counts...
(I don't know how to inline a photo, so it's attached).

He decided to (unsuccessfully) go for it on turn 102, so thankfully the game ended after a brief 106 turns.
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20161108/log.0.1478628555998.txt
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 05:41:31 pm by SettingFraming »
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majiponi

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2016, 06:04:27 pm »
0

Do you consider stalemates as infinite combos?  Something like a never-ending Ambassador war, or KC-
Thief where there's no source of economy and no way to end on piles, etc.

Yes. Fortress/Bishop counts.
If so, this game happening right now counts...
(I don't know hot to inline a photo, so it's attached).

He decided to (unsuccessfully) go for it on turn 102, so thankfully the game ended after a brief 106 turns.
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20161108/log.0.1478628555998.txt
Or, I know him. Mr. Moolong, who is the 24th champion in 5cost-leagues, who was once the champion in goko, who is one of Thursday-Dominion players in Japan.
Fmm, kind of Duchy dancing. In Empires this appears more often. Evil Landmark Wall makes.

5cost-leagues
http://zferry.hatenablog.com/entry/2016/08/16/231600

Alice is 5vp behind of Marisa. All Victories but the last Province has sold. Alice is the first player. Marisa cannot earn $8.
When this, neither Alice nor Marisa can buy the last Province. Alice cannot because she loses. Marisa cannot buy other cards to earn $8 because maybe Alice earns $8 next turn. Stalemate.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 07:21:14 pm by majiponi »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2016, 10:46:42 am »
0

If you count Forum/Trader, then you would also have to count revealing Moat infinitely to 1 attack, or revealing Trader infinitely to 1 gain.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2016, 12:31:36 pm »
+2

With Goons and cost reduction, Trader/Forum can actually gain infinite VP tokens rather than just doing nothing infinitely.

GendoIkari

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2016, 12:43:32 pm »
0

With Goons and cost reduction, Trader/Forum can actually gain infinite VP tokens rather than just doing nothing infinitely.

Ah yes; so as long as the combo is Trader/Forum/Goons, I agree. Or Merchant Guild.
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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2016, 03:18:43 pm »
+1

With Goons and cost reduction, Trader/Forum can actually gain infinite VP tokens rather than just doing nothing infinitely.

Ah yes; so as long as the combo is Trader/Forum/Goons, I agree. Or Merchant Guild.

A mirror with this combo should be a fun thing to play....
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GendoIkari

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2016, 03:34:21 pm »
0

With Goons and cost reduction, Trader/Forum can actually gain infinite VP tokens rather than just doing nothing infinitely.

Ah yes; so as long as the combo is Trader/Forum/Goons, I agree. Or Merchant Guild.

A mirror with this combo should be a fun thing to play....

I suppose you would just have to call it a draw. Otherwise it becomes an exercise in naming the largest number.
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Chris is me

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2016, 03:37:23 pm »
0

With Goons and cost reduction, Trader/Forum can actually gain infinite VP tokens rather than just doing nothing infinitely.

Ah yes; so as long as the combo is Trader/Forum/Goons, I agree. Or Merchant Guild.

A mirror with this combo should be a fun thing to play....

I suppose you would just have to call it a draw. Otherwise it becomes an exercise in naming the largest number.

Really you have no reason to activate the combo until you can end the game, since you can score infinity points any time you do it. So whomever buys the last Forum does it first.

The mirror is tough because you need a 5/5 split of the cost reducer for it to happen, and an empty Silver pile, so really the first person to activate it drains the Forum pile and immediately wins.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2016, 03:45:31 pm »
+3

The first person to get there always empty the Forums after getting whatever giant # of VP. Why would they need to be able to end the game? The combo is no longer accessible by the opponent.
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Chris is me

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2016, 04:17:59 pm »
0

The first person to get there always empty the Forums after getting whatever giant # of VP. Why would they need to be able to end the game? The combo is no longer accessible by the opponent.

I guess need isn't really necessary - just that they probably will.

I kind of stream of consciousness wrote that post, didn't realize "oh duh they could just empty the pile" until the second half.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2016, 04:23:17 pm »
0

The first person to get there always empty the Forums after getting whatever giant # of VP. Why would they need to be able to end the game? The combo is no longer accessible by the opponent.

Oh, duh. So they might not be able to end the game; but they can at least empty both Silver and Forum piles. Then it could take up to 8 more turns to end the game after that.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2016, 04:25:10 pm »
0

With Goons and cost reduction, Trader/Forum can actually gain infinite VP tokens rather than just doing nothing infinitely.

Ah yes; so as long as the combo is Trader/Forum/Goons, I agree. Or Merchant Guild.

A mirror with this combo should be a fun thing to play....

I suppose you would just have to call it a draw. Otherwise it becomes an exercise in naming the largest number.

Really you have no reason to activate the combo until you can end the game, since you can score infinity points any time you do it. So whomever buys the last Forum does it first.

The mirror is tough because you need a 5/5 split of the cost reducer for it to happen, and an empty Silver pile, so really the first person to activate it drains the Forum pile and immediately wins.

You don't need an empty Silver pile do you? You automatically empty the Silver pile as part of doing the combo. As for the cost-reducer pile being empty, it's possible that you each have just 2 KC and 2 Highway.
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majiponi

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2016, 07:08:01 pm »
0

With Goons and cost reduction, Trader/Forum can actually gain infinite VP tokens rather than just doing nothing infinitely.

Ah yes; so as long as the combo is Trader/Forum/Goons, I agree. Or Merchant Guild.

Or, I forgot to write those.
Maybe Tower(Landmark) works although this is finite.
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gloures

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2016, 08:20:31 pm »
0

The first person to get there always empty the Forums after getting whatever giant # of VP. Why would they need to be able to end the game? The combo is no longer accessible by the opponent.

I forgot you could just empty the Forum piles... Stupid me... hehe

Though if Ambassador is in the game things can still get crazy....

For cost reduction I think Ferry can help a lot
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 08:23:38 pm by gloures »
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jomini

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2016, 09:31:38 pm »
+1

Sure, there are several other loops:
old-Masq/Rc or Prince could go on forever; Island/Dlands/etc. can create a setup where you have over 50% of the possible points, but cannot end the game.

new-Masq/Cpurse/Copper gaining (even just +buys)/bulk actions (two villages, Tr-variants, etc.) can steal the other guy's deck, but still lose to Islands and friends.

5x B-crat can stalemate on zero card hands. E.g. Prince x5, B-Crat x5 can stalemate with one guy having all the VP and the other having none and the former having no way to end the game. You will pile the silvers (and the coppers) ... but you can get trapped where you cannot afford to pile the curses for a third pile as everything stays in deck.  If the scores are in the right places you can end up behind but leave the other guy no option to finish it.

With an obnoxious amount of setup, you can force a stalemate with enough plays of Pillage/Cr & Gov/Rogue & Grobber. Play a bunch of Cr/Gov. Get them up to a large amount of their deck (i.e. all of it if you want a true stalemate pin). Play Pillage until they have no functional cards left in hand (e.g. Curse, Estate, Prov, Copper) and then regain the Pillages for next turn. The get a hand that can buy nothing, but if they already 50% + 1 of the VP, you cannot end the game with a win.


Possession/Count or Mandarin can likewise setup pins.

Groundskeeper x5/E x2/Silver/Amb. You always can play Gkeeper until you have EESAmb; then play Amb (return E, give E to opponent); buy E. 5VP per turn is pretty good and with Amb you can pretty easily get there without a way to force game end. You can similarly get degenerate Whunt setups that make it too lucrative to keep at a stable state earning VP than to force game end. Pretty much ANY source of VP chips can become degenerate with limited draw options (e.g. Kc/Monument can by 9 VP/turn and even Kc/Crace can be too lucrative to actually pile anything.

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2016, 10:48:49 pm »
0

Possession/Count or Mandarin can likewise setup pins.
In case anyone makes the mistake I did a while ago - mandarin here refers to the top, the bottom doesnt work to topdeck at all with possession as it triggers on gain, not buy.
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majiponi

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2016, 05:18:07 am »
+1

How about this? It's ridiculous - my OPPONENT'S COMBO.

Need: Possession, Scheme, some terminals
You play Possession.
Your opponent plays 5 Scheme, 5 terminals, and put 5 terminals on top of her deck.

Returning 5 King's Court is ok.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 05:21:41 am by majiponi »
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Chris is me

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2016, 09:59:14 am »
0

The first person to get there always empty the Forums after getting whatever giant # of VP. Why would they need to be able to end the game? The combo is no longer accessible by the opponent.

Oh, duh. So they might not be able to end the game; but they can at least empty both Silver and Forum piles. Then it could take up to 8 more turns to end the game after that.

Unless Bridge and King's Court (or a combination involving Ferry) is the method of cost reduction, there will already be a third pile with a maximum of 5 cards in it that costs $0. I think there will be very few games where this combo is pulled off but the game doesn't end that turn.

Then again, there will be very few games where you get the time to drain the entire Silver pile either...
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2016, 11:07:04 am »
+2

The first person to get there always empty the Forums after getting whatever giant # of VP. Why would they need to be able to end the game? The combo is no longer accessible by the opponent.

Oh, duh. So they might not be able to end the game; but they can at least empty both Silver and Forum piles. Then it could take up to 8 more turns to end the game after that.

Unless Bridge and King's Court (or a combination involving Ferry) is the method of cost reduction, there will already be a third pile with a maximum of 5 cards in it that costs $0. I think there will be very few games where this combo is pulled off but the game doesn't end that turn.

Then again, there will be very few games where you get the time to drain the entire Silver pile either...

I mean there are a whole bunch of other cases (the easiest is Quarry) where you can get Forum to cost $0 without lowering any pile to 5, but who cares. You are missing that, as Gendo mentioned earlier, the Silver pile does not need to be depleted before you do this thing, you just drain it the same turn you have Goons / Trader / $0 Forums and score a million points.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 11:08:38 am by Mic Qsenoch »
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Chris is me

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Re: Infinite Combos
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2016, 11:30:02 am »
0

The first person to get there always empty the Forums after getting whatever giant # of VP. Why would they need to be able to end the game? The combo is no longer accessible by the opponent.

Oh, duh. So they might not be able to end the game; but they can at least empty both Silver and Forum piles. Then it could take up to 8 more turns to end the game after that.

Unless Bridge and King's Court (or a combination involving Ferry) is the method of cost reduction, there will already be a third pile with a maximum of 5 cards in it that costs $0. I think there will be very few games where this combo is pulled off but the game doesn't end that turn.

Then again, there will be very few games where you get the time to drain the entire Silver pile either...

I mean there are a whole bunch of other cases (the easiest is Quarry) where you can get Forum to cost $0 without lowering any pile to 5, but who cares. You are missing that, as Gendo mentioned earlier, the Silver pile does not need to be depleted before you do this thing, you just drain it the same turn you have Goons / Trader / $0 Forums and score a million points.

Man, I have no reading comprehension today, sorry about that. :/
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