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Author Topic: Dominion: Strive & Reward  (Read 7199 times)

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DBnator

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Dominion: Strive & Reward
« on: October 30, 2016, 05:05:42 pm »
+4

This is my first try at making a fan-expansion and I'm not that experienced with Dominion yet, so any kind of feedback is appreciated a lot. :)
My goal was to focus on gaining/discarding/trashing Treasure cards and creating interesting interactions and tactics.

Edit: I replaced the first cards I posted with updated ones already.

2 cost cards:


3 cost cards:


4 cost cards:


5 cost cards:


6 cost cards:



PS: I haven't played with most of the official cards yet but read through all of them at least twice.
But it could still be that I overlooked some broken combintions with my cards that you may find very obvious.

Also I'm not a native speaker so I'm not 100% familiar with the english Dominion wording and don't know all these fancy medieval themed words.
If you find some wording or card names odd or have a better suggestion, please let me know. :)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 06:11:57 pm by DBnator »
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kru5h

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2016, 05:31:36 pm »
+1

Your "Old Gem" is mostly and +1 Buy for .

Charm is already a real card that's and +1 Buy, but costs only . (And it has a second option.)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 05:32:40 pm by kru5h »
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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2016, 05:42:54 pm »
0

I do love the most of the cards! Nice interactions and everything.

Some comments:

1) Treasurer is too good for five. I'd put it on 6 at least. You discard copper and receive double lab/+2 which is great.
2) Some little typos like "This is in play" on collector.
3) I'd give Peasant Village a cost of 3 cause it's like a little better Settlers.
4) Ambush is meh. You try to make a cantrip with not so powerful attack. I'd add the cantrip part to it by default and tried to make it Lost City.
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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2016, 05:54:54 pm »
+6

Nasty tactic of the day: Possess your opponent, play a cost-reducer, and Prince his Stolen Goods.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2016, 06:18:40 pm »
+2

Gatekeeper; seems reasonable. Couldn't think of any glaring issues immediately.
Replica: same.
Wayfarer: needs to have the 'reaction' type. But otherwise: reasonable.
Antiquarian: also reasonable.
Offertory: a little nice, but reasonable.
Rainbow: great synergy. I generally don't like cards like that, but this sure works.
Reclamation is: trash a silver, +2 cards + $2, +1 buy. That seems far too powerful at $3.
Restorer: I think it works.
Ambush: I think I like it.
Craftsmen: I don't think it works, because gaining is not simultaneous. So you'll never gain a gold that way.
Cursed Gold: Cool card.
Furnace: not official dominion lingo, but I think it works.
Gold Diggers Village: I think it can cost $5, tbh.
Peasant village: I think it can cost $3.
Bribe: fun, works.
Cathedral: seems strong. Not sure.
Collector: seems fun. Slightly tricky though. I don't think I would put at $5. Maybe $4.
Foundry: yup works.
Greed: nobody is going to like greed.
Moneylaundering is hard. Trashing a gold (or even a platinum) and getting +5 (+8) in your hand in coppers? I don't think people are going to like this card too.
Stolen goods: Not official dominion language, but it works.
Could even be $4 with that downside, I think.
Treasurer: needs a 'reaction' status. And it's trictly better than stables, so this needs to be $6 at least.
Investor: Cool card.
Mountains: Works.
Gem to much like a real existing card.
 

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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2016, 06:31:14 pm »
0

Nasty tactic of the day: Possess your opponent, play a cost-reducer, and Prince his Stolen Goods.

Even though it's a 4 card combo; it's probably enough that it should be changed to avoid it.
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DBnator

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2016, 06:34:05 pm »
0

Your "Old Gem" is mostly and +1 Buy for .

Charm is already a real card that's and +1 Buy, but costs only . (And it has a second option.)

I had Old Gem at 5 first, but I didn't want you to be able to recycle it into itself. Do you think it would be fun/balanced to be able to do that? Or is the issue rather that it is too similar to (and in Kingdoms without trashing strictly worse than) Charm?


I do love the most of the cards! Nice interactions and everything.

Some comments:

1) Treasurer is too good for five. I'd put it on 6 at least. You discard copper and receive double lab/+2 which is great.
2) Some little typos like "This is in play" on collector.
3) I'd give Peasant Village a cost of 3 cause it's like a little better Settlers.
4) Ambush is meh. You try to make a cantrip with not so powerful attack. I'd add the cantrip part to it by default and tried to make it Lost City.

Thanks for the kind words and feedback! :)

1): That's reasonable. However, it's not exactly like a double lab since you only end up with 1 more card. And do you think the +2 should be a +3 instead, since you will lose at least a Copper (equals -1)?

2): I will fix that.

3): I assumed it would be a little bit too good to open double Peasant Village, that's why I put it on 4. But I'll think about it.

4): That's the card I'm the least satisfied with. I wanted a discard attack at 4 and thought I might try to make it also Duration card.
So your suggestion is this?:

Ambush (4):
(Action - Attack - Duration)
+1 Card
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your turn:
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a card.


Nasty tactic of the day: Possess your opponent, play a cost-reducer, and Prince his Stolen Goods.

Wow that's cruel :o
Even if it's an edge case, I probably should change that to "During the turn you play this from your hand:".
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 05:19:28 pm by DBnator »
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LaLight

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2016, 06:40:05 pm »
0


1): That's reasonable. However, it's not exactly like a double lab since you only end up with 1 more card. And do you think the +2 should be a +3 instead, since you will lose at least a Copper (equals -1)?

Well, it's still better than lab (you end up with 1 more card + $ bonus). So I'd made it +$3 and 6-cost.

3): I assumed it would be a little bit too good to open double Peasant Village, that's why I put it on 4. But I'll think about it.
You can always open double Settlers. It's not too good :)

4): That's the card I'm the least satisfied with. I wanted a discard attack at 4 and thought I might try to make it also Duration card. (I think something like this doesn't exist yet, does it?)
So your suggestion is this?:

Ambush (4):
(Action - Attack - Duration)
+1 Card
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your turn:
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a card.

Yep, that's clearly better.

Though I'm not so experienced in Fan Cards and I may be wrong. Someone who's vet here, correct me if I am :)
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DBnator

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2016, 07:08:16 pm »
0

Wayfarer: needs to have the 'reaction' type. But otherwise: reasonable.
...
Treasurer: needs a 'reaction' status. And it's trictly better than stables, so this needs to be $6 at least.

Do these *need* to have a Reaction status in order to work, or does it just make them clearer?
For example Scheme isn't a reaction and still works during Clean-up, what makes Treasurer different?

Reclamation is: trash a silver, +2 cards + $2, +1 buy. That seems far too powerful at $3.

The trashed silver equals a -2 however, so you'd end up with +2 cards, +1 buy and a silver less in your deck, which can be either good or bad.

Craftsmen: I don't think it works, because gaining is not simultaneous. So you'll never gain a gold that way.

I didn't know that, but I think I can change the wording to make it work.

Furnace: not official dominion lingo, but I think it works.
...
Stolen goods: Not official dominion language, but it works.
Could even be $4 with that downside, I think.

Please tell me what parts need to be changed.

Gold Diggers Village: I think it can cost $5, tbh.

Are you sure? If you have no Treasure card it's worse than village, if you trash Copper it's a village that thins your deck by 1 card.
I really don't want to make it 5 because I intended it mainly to be used to get rid of Copper early while allowing you to play your terminal actions.

Cathedral: seems strong. Not sure.

How about I make the "put a card on top of your deck" part mandatory? Migth be too weak though if you have no Victory cards in hand...

Collector: seems fun. Slightly tricky though. I don't think I would put at $5. Maybe $4.

4 feels really cheap imo. Sure the Copper is a downside, but this expansion provides many ways of dealing with them and being able to use gained cards immediately should not be underrated.

Greed: nobody is going to like greed.
Moneylaundering is hard. Trashing a gold (or even a platinum) and getting +5 (+8) in your hand in coppers? I don't think people are going to like this card too.

Well attacks are not about being liked :P
You did misunderstand Moneylaundering. If you trash Gold/Platinum you would gain 3/5 Copper.
And keep in mind that the players choose the card to trash themselfs, so as long as they have a Copper in hand this card works just like a Cutpurse.

Gem to much like a real existing card.

Someone informed me already that Charm exists, I forgot about it.
Do you think the on-trash effect is interesting?
If so, I'd try to change the rest to make it more unique, otherwise I'll try to think of something entirely new.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 07:32:59 pm by DBnator »
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DBnator

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2016, 07:20:53 pm »
0

Well, it's still better than lab (you end up with 1 more card + $ bonus). So I'd made it +$3 and 6-cost.

You end up with either 1 more card or +$, not both (it's choose one).
I'll definitely put it at 6 though.

You can always open double Settlers. It's not too good :)

However if 2 Settlers collide turn 3 they are wasted, if 2 Peasant Villages collide turn 2 you have +2 and still 5 cards in hand.
But maybe I just misjudged the choice between +Cards and +Actions as too good. At 3 the card would probably be fine :)

Regarding Ambush I'll wait a bit too see what others think and then decide about it's fate ;D
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majiponi

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2016, 08:06:44 pm »
0

Investor doesn't work.
When does it leave play?
In buy-phase, you cannot gain Treasures without buying (except Treasure Trove, Ill-Gotten Gains, Hoard, Horn of Plenty, or so). So +1 Card when you gain a Treasure has no meaning without +1 Buy. And with it, it is still weak.
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DBnator

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2016, 09:43:14 pm »
0

Investor doesn't work.
When does it leave play?

It leaves play when you buy a Victory card. Or during the Clean-up of that turn, to be precise.

In buy-phase, you cannot gain Treasures without buying (except Treasure Trove, Ill-Gotten Gains, Hoard, Horn of Plenty, or so). So +1 Card when you gain a Treasure has no meaning without +1 Buy. And with it, it is still weak.

That part of the card is useful when:
  • You have extra Buys from Action cards already
  • You just bought a Bribe
  • You draw a Treasure card that provides +Buy like Charm or my Old Gem card (which most likely gets chaged though)

But the main purpose for it is to be used during your Action phase anyway, however I just realised that the card is actually pretty bad if there are no gainers in the kingdom.
It will work really really well with Offertory or Furnace and still decent with Replica, Reclamation or Collector though.
And there are many real cards that let you gain (Treasure) cards, for example Mine, Upgrade, University, Mint, Remake would all work.

I liked Investor a lot but I only thought of it in the context of this particular expansion and not of its usefulness in a "regular" game which might not provide the possibility to gain Treasures in your Action phase. Thanks for making me aware of it, I'll try to think of a less Kingdom-dependant variant :)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 09:44:49 pm by DBnator »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2016, 07:26:37 am »
0

So others have covered balancing, so I'll cover ascetics which is more my line of expertise.
(Disclaimer: IMO)
Art:
I love the art you used for Gatekeeper, Antiquarian, Offerortory, Reclamation, Restorer, Furnace, God Digger's Village, Peassant Village, Bribe, Collector, Foundry, and Mountains.
I dislike the art for Wayfarer, Ambush, Cursed Gold, Cathedral, and Investor.

Names:
Rainbow is kinda weird as a name.
Cursed Gold is a little to often used.
Gold Digger's Village could proably be shorter, Miner's Village, or Gold Miner's Village.
Same thing with Money Laundering, Launderer might be shorter.
Old Gem might be better as Rare Gem
Asper has cards called Investor and Craftsmen, but I don't know if you care. Anyways, if I printed either of those I'd proabably rename them just in case they both come up in a game.
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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2016, 07:28:09 am »
0

For the cards that care about what a treasure produces, couldn't you play it then trash it from play? That way you know what it produced.
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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2016, 10:36:15 am »
+1

I like the premise of the vast majority of them, but some of them look like they're trying to do too many things at once. Testing them might make you decide that some part of each card might not be worth the complexity it adds. Or maybe you'll like them the way they are and that's fine too, there are no flagrantly overcomplex cards here.
Some of them are a bit too mathy for my taste, but here too there are no huge offenders, just a matter of taste.

Some scattered criticism:
Replica seems very weak. Unless I have exactly , I'll usually want a Silver in its place, and that's a problem for a 2-cost because it has to be competitive against - and -costers: you don't often get exactly spare.
If it gained to your hand I'd like it much more.

Wayfarer's under-the-line concept is pretty nice, but I'd find the Buy-Action exchange hard to track.

In standard Dominion lingo, Antiquarian should make you "look through your discard pile".

Why not have Offertory gain Gold/Platinum(/Bank/Harem)? Discarding a Gold/P/B/H is quite a big disadvantage. Otherwise I'd most often prefer Mint to this, and Mint is just an ok card to start with. :)

Rainbow seems fun and balanced, but be aware that in a 4-player game one or two players might be completely exluded from the joy of rainbows. This might be fine or not depending on how often you play 4p and how much you care for this sort of things. (I personally don't, usually)

I personally don't like stolen goods because it restricts one's choices. I think that Treasury does that general idea just fine, while I'm afraid that Stolen Good's limitations will make it very unlikely to be bought, just like Contraband.

Peasant Village is one of my favorites, partly because it's so simple. It's very similar to Encampment, though. Comparing it with Squire, Moat and Encampment I think that a price of or would be more appropriate.

Cursed Gold is another card where I like the under-the-line effect but I'm not really a fan of the top. Maybe skip the whole Curse thing and just say "When you play this, discard a card"?

Cathedral seems like an amazing BM-terminal draw card, on par or even better than Gear, and definitely better than Embassy. I suggest you carefully scrutinize it. You can redraw green better than Catacombs and Journeyman can do and you are resilient to terminal collision like in Gear and Courtyard.

Does mountains need the "originally"? What's wrong with cost reducers? :)
Anyway, this card concept (count copies of this card) pops up quite often in fan cards, but I'm yet to see one that I find really appealing. They can be crazy swingy, and are not different enough from vanilla victory cards: you want to win their split, and that's all. It's a much better Duchy (from the second Mountain on), but that's all.
The balance on yours is better than most, I think. A 3-5 split gives 10 points of advantage, which is a big split but not in a bad way. (a 3-5 on Provinces is 12 points, and often insurmountable).
I think that a pile like this needs something extra to make it interesting, like Fairground's condition or the Castles' uniqueness. But nothing really wrong with it either. :)

I really like Foundry. Foundry-BM also seems a bit powerful, but the mandatory trash should keep it in check.

Greed seems like a really unfun card, and you won't find somebody with a better good-will towards trashing attacks than me here. :) It pulls the game towards BM, trashing fun cards and replacing them with boring cards. Being a bad terminal also hurts its fun level.

Money laundering seems better, and I love the idea of shattering other players' Treasures into pieces. My only issue with this is the wordiness, and the fact that it might just work as an overpriced Cutpurse a bit too often (not trashing Coppers is pretty common). Maybe having it work on expensive treasures only would work?
Something like a reverse mine, for example: Each other player trashes a Treasure costing more than from their hand (or reveals a hand with no such card), then gains a Copper and a Treasure costing at most less than the trashed one, putting the latter into their hand.
But again, these suggestions are based on my personal preference, your version of ML hasn't got any rule or balance problems.

Anyway, thanks for sharing, I hope you'll stick to your cards (and make new ones), go on testing them and report any results!
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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2016, 12:07:52 pm »
0

The wording on Replica is a bit ambiguous (I'm assuming you gain the other treasure card, not a Replica).

Cursed Gold seems too good - surely you'll pretty much always be able to make sure you can discard a card. I like the general idea though.

Cathedral looks too strong as well.

Greed just looks annoying.

(Sorry for leaning on the negative here. I do think a lot of them are good! It's just my first instinct is to look for flaws.)
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DBnator

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2016, 04:02:02 pm »
+1

So others have covered balancing, so I'll cover ascetics which is more my line of expertise.

I'm glad someone is willing to give feedback on that matter too :)

I dislike the art for Wayfarer, Ambush, Cursed Gold, Cathedral, and Investor.

For some cards I had a really hard time finding even a halfway decent picture.
I wouldn't have choosen the art for Cursed Gold or Investor if I had acceptable alternatives.
Wayfarer, Cathedral and Ambush turned out okay for my taste but it's true, they could be a lot better.
In case you or anyone else happens to know better card art for these, don't hesitate to tell me ;D

Rainbow is kinda weird as a name.

Yeah I know it's not very Dominion themed.
The story behind it is that the whole expansion started out with a "Treasure hunt" theme and I liked it as a "Gold at the end of the Rainbow" metaphor.
I'm open for suggestions here, but I also like it as it is.

Cursed Gold is a little to often used.

I agree the name is pretty generic even though I cannot recall reading it anywere else already.
Maybe I'll take the name from Stolen Goods instead since I think about abandoning it's concept.

Gold Digger's Village could proably be shorter, Miner's Village, or Gold Miner's Village.

Miner's Village is too similar to Mining Village imo, Gold Miner's Village sounds better.

Same thing with Money Laundering, Launderer might be shorter.

Will do.

Old Gem might be better as Rare Gem

Sounds way nicer, thanks! :)

Asper has cards called Investor and Craftsmen, but I don't know if you care. Anyways, if I printed either of those I'd proabably rename them just in case they both come up in a game.

I might be just super cheap and call them "Investment" and "Crafting" instead.

For the cards that care about what a treasure produces, couldn't you play it then trash it from play? That way you know what it produced.

This might lead to some weird behavior if you are forced to play cards like Venture, Counterfeit or Crown.

---

The wording on Replica is a bit ambiguous (I'm assuming you gain the other treasure card, not a Replica).

I'll adapt the wording to make it more clear.

Cursed Gold seems too good - surely you'll pretty much always be able to make sure you can discard a card. I like the general idea though.

Are you sure it's too strong? I actually thought about a slight buff by getting rid of the "gain a curse" part.
Because whenever you play a Copper with it, it becomes a Silver at 4 that makes you discard a card.
But yes, you can't deny it's pretty good if early thrashing of Copper is possible.

Cathedral looks too strong as well.

Heard that a few times now. I will nerf it a bit.
Do you think a limit on the number Victory cards that can be discarded would be suitable or rather making the "put a card on top of your deck" part mandatory?

Greed just looks annoying.

Also that's something I got told multiple times now. I guess that's a clear sign to scrap this idea and think of a different kind of attack.

(Sorry for leaning on the negative here. I do think a lot of them are good! It's just my first instinct is to look for flaws.)

Don't worry, in the long term this will help me way more than if people did it the other way around.
Your feedback is definitely appreciated :)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 04:11:51 pm by DBnator »
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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2016, 04:03:43 pm »
+1

Gatekeeper:  This seems like a really good, well designed card, and is better than Secret Chamber. 
Replica: Pretty weak and risky.  Gaining the new treasure to hand would be a start.  An ability that let you put it on the Tavern mat to watch for treasure gains hand after hand and never whiff seems possible.
If you're new to Dominion, Gold might be purchased somewhat more frequently in your games compared with expert play.  5$ cards are often better and they're also only worse by a slim margin lots of the time.  So buying a 5$ action with a 6$ hand would be an easy way to devastate a player that bought Replica.
Wayfarer:  It's a nice idea, but +action cards that don't give +1 card are generally fighting uphill from the getgo because it can be so challenging to get 2 terminals into the same hand reliably.  Since these require eachother to be drawn together before they even become empty Universities, they are taxing a requirement that was already an issue.
Maybe the idea here is to use Market and Woodcutters, but they don't compose that much of the cardpool.
It's still a neat card though.  Why don't you just give it +card and price it at 4$?  It wouldn't be an Ironmonger at all.
Antiquarian:  Wow, what a cool card.  Very thematic.  Very printable as is.
Offertory: The comparison to Ironworks here is troubling.  One of Ironworks's options is +1$, gain a silver.  This +1 Card, +1 Action, -2$, gain a silver.  That's net 0 vanilla bonuses instead of net 1.  And Ironworks is free to do other things, whereas this can't do anything else (in kingdoms without an extra treasure, 95+% of them).  Of course it's not always bad for a 3$ card to be worse than a 4$ card.  But they should be pretty close, and this is a gulf.  Workshop doesn't even make this card look great. 
Rainbow: Very cute and probably fine.  The Vorthos in me is mad though, a Rainbow is about diversity.
Reclamation: I suspect this doesn't do what you want it to.  When a card tells you to do something to N objects, and you have M objects, 0<M<N, you do that thing to those M options to do as much as you can.  We see this with 1 card hands getting Torturured in Dominion and see it in other cases in other games.  So when you are instructed to pick 3 treasures from the trash, it's pretty likely there are only 1 or 2, and you'll still pick them.  You'd need a wording like "pick a set of 3 treasures from the trash" or need to throw the word "exactly" into there.  An alternative choice that game designers often use when the "do as much as you can" rule isn't working in a way that serves their design is to just clearly arrange the effects so that it does.  Here you would have players return treasures to the supply before gaining, which would make the requirement that 3 treasures are in the bin you seemed to intend a requirement for the card's second mode to be useful rather than a requirement for it to be legal.
Restorer: Probably fine.
Ambush: Seems fun.  This is probably ok at two or three cost.  Since Durations miss the reshuffle twice as often, making it easier to buy multiples could add some fun factor in keeping village strategies cohesive in the odd game where this is the premiere village.
Craftsmen: The top part seems too powerful for the bottom to do very much at all.  Some games the bottom isn't doing very much at all, but this seems to blank junkers pretty hard.
I'm not sure the rules truly support grouping several gains together and applying a replacement effect across them.  When you buy a cache, can you reveal this and specify that the 2 copper gains are being replaced but the imminent cache gain is not?  Of course, for some players they'll happily use house rules and understandings just for their playgroup and not care about it, but your cards have been pretty clean thus far ruleswise.
Cursed Gold: I'm gonna jump on the bandwagon of saying this card is just plain cool.
Furnace: This thing is really neat.  It is a nonterminal Mine you've costed at 4$ though.  Mine would be totally fine at 4$, people have agreed on that in the past.  Nonterminal Mine.  With other upsides? Concern.
Changing the cost messes with the crazy cool top and bottom half interaction.  So does weakening the effect.  So does removing +1 Action.  I think you should just add a penalty to it to balance it.  Embassy clause, giving opponents VP, -1$ to the effect.  But man this card is going places.
You could tack the drawback onto the below the line effect to be penalty when you buy it vs. the alternative of upside when you gain it some other way, so it feels like you haven't added that much noise.
Gold Digger's Village:  I love it.  Stables is one of my favorite cards, this brings that experience to a village.  This looks safe at 3$, it's not strictly better than Village, and the primary risk of a 3$ card vs. a 4$ card is usually people acquiring too many, and these antistack, thirsting for the same resource.  You should be fine.  It's definitely not as lethal as Fishing Village's 3$ status.
Bribe: This is a great design, one of those cards that changes the landscape of cards in which it appears rather than being a new card in the kingdom per se. 
Cathedral: This is cool.  Comparison to Embassy might raise light fears it's too strong.
Collector: This is cool.  Cleverly balanced.
Foundry: I like this. I think it might could stand a +1$.  Compare to Trading Post.
Greed: I don't have much to say on this one.
Money Laundering: The only other terminal silver 5$ attack that can whiff entirely this often is Rogue and Rogue feels pretty bad for it.  Was the attacker supposed to choose, here?  As written the defender chooses and that's lots of whiffing.  Maybe put the second gained copper into hand, not the first.  So it's a 5$ Cutpurse with upside.
Stolen Goods: I love this card.  It's so clever.  Because those limitations are absolutely the things you need to do eventually, and this card will so nastily trap so many newbies, it's just glorious.
It can be a 4$ card, I think.  It's strictly worse than Soothsayer, mostly.  If you play a Soothsayer, you gain the most expensive nonvictory card, maybe also get something else, and attack the enemy player.  The drawback of this turning into a Curse in endgame is a big deal.  It seems a lot more fascinating at 4$ and less dependent on gainers in the kingdom.
Treasurer: I said Stables was one of my favorite cards, so how do you think I'm gonna feel about a strictly better stables with this many upsides over it? :(
Investor:  Needs work.  Making this card good is a lot of hoops you're jumping through.
Mountains:  The below the line text seems unrelated and unmotivated, but I guess that's not so bad.  This is kind of on the strong side, if you split the pile these are 4 point fairgrounds, which people have to put in a little work to get and are usually willing to do the work to get, whereas this doesn't require any work.  It doesn't really ruin a game to have a dominating VP option that's not Province, though, Nobles and Colony don't ruin games either.
You might want to increase the impact of the second ability by 1, if you Trade Route a Silver instead of an Estate because you want to make use of Mountain's special mechanic, you don't actually get closer to buying a Mountain.  That doesn't feel great. 
Old Gem:  This card is pretty cool.  It won't be super rare for it to be the only nonterminal +buy on the board, and then its unique mechanic will be affecting the game.


All in all I really liked the vast majority of these cards, and OP, whose screenname I don't remember, is probably one of my favorite fan card designers now.  I'm surprised he hasn't played with all the cards yet.  But I hope he does, at least after ShuffleIT hits.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 06:17:27 pm by popsofctown »
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popsofctown

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2016, 04:07:34 pm »
0

Nasty tactic of the day: Possess your opponent, play a cost-reducer, and Prince his Stolen Goods.

Even though it's a 4 card combo that requires participation from the victim; it's probably enough that it should be changed to avoid it.
Helping you out here.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2016, 04:09:09 pm »
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So others have covered balancing, so I'll cover ascetics which is more my line of expertise.
I'm glad someone is willing to give feedback on that matter too :)
I dislike the art for Wayfarer, Ambush, Cursed Gold, Cathedral, and Investor.
For some cards I had a really hard time finding even a halfway decent picture.
I wouldn't have choosen the art for Cursed Gold or Investor if I had acceptable alternatives.
Wayfarer, Cathedral and Ambush turned out okay for my taste but it's true, they could be a lot better.
In case you or anyone else happens to know better card art for these, don't hesitate to tell me ;D
Rainbow is kinda weird as a name.
Yeah I know it's not very Dominion themed.
The story behind it is that the whole expansion started out with a "Treasure hunt" theme and I liked it as a "Gold at the end of the Rainbow" metaphor.
I'm open for suggestions here, but I also like it as it is.
Cursed Gold is a little to often used.
I agree the name is pretty generic even though I cannot recall reading it anywere else already.
Maybe I'll take the name from Stolen Goods instead since I think about abandoning it's concept.
Gold Digger's Village could proably be shorter, Miner's Village, or Gold Miner's Village.
Miner's Village is too similar to Mining Village imo, Gold Miner's Village sounds better.
Same thing with Money Laundering, Launderer might be shorter.
Will do.
Old Gem might be better as Rare Gem
Sounds way nicer, thanks! :)
Asper has cards called Investor and Craftsmen, but I don't know if you care. Anyways, if I printed either of those I'd proabably rename them just in case they both come up in a game.
I might be just super cheap and call them "Investment" and "Crafting" instead.
I'll post if I think I have art improvements. As for names, "Workers" could do for Craftsmen, and something like "Vein" might work for Rainbow.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2016, 04:10:08 pm »
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Nasty tactic of the day: Possess your opponent, play a cost-reducer, and Prince his Stolen Goods.

Even though it's a 5 card combo with Ambassador; it's probably enough that it should be changed to avoid it.
Helping you out here.
Or this.
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popsofctown

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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2016, 04:10:57 pm »
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I misread Moneylaunderer so my assessment of that one was wrong, my bad.
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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2016, 04:20:17 pm »
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Forced topdeck is an insufficient penalty for Cathedral.  There's lots of Courtyardiness to this card.

Maybe give the victory card sifting ability to all players, not just the user of the card.  Or some other drawback.
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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2016, 04:41:14 pm »
+1

Fleshed out Art critscims:
Gatekeeper:
Great name and art. Keep as-is.

Replica:
Weird art. Looking for a replacement. On a side note:

I'd thought I'd just throw this out there.

Wayfarer:
Great name, bad art. Looking for a replacement.

Antiquarian:
Fine as-is, although I have no idea what an Antiquarian is.

Offertory:
The art is fine and the name is fine, but if you wanted more digital art I think I had something that would work.

Rainbow:
As I said, "Vein" might work. The theme is there but the name just sounds weird.

Reclamation:
Keep as-is.

Restorer:
Keep as-is.

Ambush:
I have a card with the same name. If you want to change it that would be fine, otherwise:
http://jackeavesart.deviantart.com/art/Ambush-431129972 was my spare image.

Craftsmen:
As I said, workers would be my preffered change.

Cursed Gold:
Stolen Goods is a great replacement name.

Furnace:
Good as-is.

Gold Digger's Village:
Somehow I completely forgot about Mining Village. Gold Miner's Village would be great.

Peasant Village:
Cool, and my favorite card from the set.

Bribe:
I have a card called that, but it might not stick around for long so I wouldn't worry about it. If you want a different image I could post one.

Cathedral:
http://fantasyartdesign.com/free-wallpapers/digital-art.php?i_i=232&u_i=66
or
http://yourvisualdesigner.deviantart.com/art/Matte-Painting-Cathedral-Ruins-181844093

Collector:
There's a card called that in the Mini-Set design contest (check it out). You can probably rename it something while keeping the art, but if you don't want to change it no problem.

Foundry:
Again, I have a card called that but your art is a huge improvement. I'll edit mine and you can keep yours.

Greed:
As you are gonna drop it (I would too), no comments here.

Money Laundering:
No comments, other than weird art.

Stolen Goods:
If you were to move this to Cursed Gold, I'd be fine with it. It's a little weird but it doesn't really need chaning.

Treasurer:
Again, not a huge fan of the art, looking for new art.

Investor:
I'll try to find some new art once you sort out what you want for the name.

Mountains:
It's fine art.

Old Gem:
Looking for some new art.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 04:45:32 pm by ThetaSigma12 »
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Re: Dominion: Strive & Reward
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2016, 05:17:32 pm »
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Some scattered criticism:
Replica seems very weak. Unless I have exactly , I'll usually want a Silver in its place, and that's a problem for a 2-cost because it has to be competitive against - and -costers: you don't often get exactly spare.
If it gained to your hand I'd like it much more.

In my head I always intended it to be used with Collector to put it into your hand, but actually that's a pretty specific setup.
I guess gaining it always to your hand is reasonable, considering that it is close to Silver in costs.

Wayfarer's under-the-line concept is pretty nice, but I'd find the Buy-Action exchange hard to track.

I can see that beeing an issue, hopefully playtesting will help me making a decision on that.
Small trivia: That's one of the last 2 card I made and I noticed that more +Actions and +Buys in the expansion would be helpful. And Wayfarer is the result ;D

Why not have Offertory gain Gold/Platinum(/Bank/Harem)? Discarding a Gold/P/B/H is quite a big disadvantage. Otherwise I'd most often prefer Mint to this, and Mint is just an ok card to start with. :)

I thought that would make the card too strong, especially if combined with Antiquarian.

Rainbow seems fun and balanced, but be aware that in a 4-player game one or two players might be completely exluded from the joy of rainbows. This might be fine or not depending on how often you play 4p and how much you care for this sort of things. (I personally don't, usually)

I actually thought about it and I care a little. I'd make it a 15 card pile in 3+ player games, but that's kinda weird too.
The first version of Rainbow actually made you trash them when gaining a 6 cost card but let you gain one from the trash when gaining no card.
My intention was to have them fluctuating between players to avoid that problem, however I found that to be to complicated and reworked it.

I personally don't like stolen goods because it restricts one's choices. I think that Treasury does that general idea just fine, while I'm afraid that Stolen Good's limitations will make it very unlikely to be bought, just like Contraband.

Yep, I'm most likely going to completely rework that one, now that I realised that it is very restrictive and encourages a boring playstyle.

Peasant Village is one of my favorites, partly because it's so simple. It's very similar to Encampment, though. Comparing it with Squire, Moat and Encampment I think that a price of or would be more appropriate.

I'll put it at 3.

Cursed Gold is another card where I like the under-the-line effect but I'm not really a fan of the top. Maybe skip the whole Curse thing and just say "When you play this, discard a card"?

I think the curse part could be removed but I do want to keep the trashing for two reasons:
1): If you have only Treasure cards in hand at the start of your Buy phase then you can simply play it last to avoid discarding.
2): You might even want to trash it to make Mountains cheaper.

Cathedral seems like an amazing BM-terminal draw card, on par or even better than Gear, and definitely better than Embassy. I suggest you carefully scrutinize it. You can redraw green better than Catacombs and Journeyman can do and you are resilient to terminal collision like in Gear and Courtyard.

I realised it's too strong by now and currently thinking about the best way to implement a nerf.

Does mountains need the "originally"? What's wrong with cost reducers? :)
Anyway, this card concept (count copies of this card) pops up quite often in fan cards, but I'm yet to see one that I find really appealing. They can be crazy swingy, and are not different enough from vanilla victory cards: you want to win their split, and that's all. It's a much better Duchy (from the second Mountain on), but that's all.
The balance on yours is better than most, I think. A 3-5 split gives 10 points of advantage, which is a big split but not in a bad way. (a 3-5 on Provinces is 12 points, and often insurmountable).
I think that a pile like this needs something extra to make it interesting, like Fairground's condition or the Castles' uniqueness. But nothing really wrong with it either. :)

I had a hard time coming up with a concept for alt-VP that supports the theme of the expansion at least a little bit without being too situational.
Glad it turned out okay at least :)

The "originally" is necessary I believe; imagine the following:
You somehow trash Silver, then play Highway. Does Mountain cost 4 or 6? When you trashed Silver it met the condition of costing 3 but currently it doesn't.
I simply wanted to avoid any confusion, even it means some awkard wording ;D

Greed seems like a really unfun card, and you won't find somebody with a better good-will towards trashing attacks than me here. :) It pulls the game towards BM, trashing fun cards and replacing them with boring cards. Being a bad terminal also hurts its fun level.

Duly noted. I got that feedback now multiple times. I'll rework it.

Money laundering seems better, and I love the idea of shattering other players' Treasures into pieces. My only issue with this is the wordiness, and the fact that it might just work as an overpriced Cutpurse a bit too often (not trashing Coppers is pretty common). Maybe having it work on expensive treasures only would work?
Something like a reverse mine, for example: Each other player trashes a Treasure costing more than from their hand (or reveals a hand with no such card), then gains a Copper and a Treasure costing at most less than the trashed one, putting the latter into their hand.
But again, these suggestions are based on my personal preference, your version of ML hasn't got any rule or balance problems.

I really like your version of the card, mainly because it sounds way less swingy, which is my main worry with my version.
Thanks a lot for that suggestion! :)

Anyway, thanks for sharing, I hope you'll stick to your cards (and make new ones), go on testing them and report any results!

Your feedback was very detailed and helpful, I really apreciate it! And also thanks for the kind words :)
My problem is just that I can't play nearly as much Dominion as I want/need too (lack of time and people to play with) :(
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