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Chris is me

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Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« on: October 22, 2016, 01:36:56 pm »
+2

Yeah I keep just tossing around card ideas and eventually want to compile a mini-set, so I thought I'd just post them here as I thought of them and get some feedback. Expect random posts spaced out over a period of time.

(EDITS: Italic is added, strikethrough is removed

Quote
Recombobulate / Action, $4

Trash 2 cards from your hand. You may gain a card with cost exactly equal up to the combined total cost in coins of the trashed cards.

I've been trying to make a Remodel / Remake variant for awhile that trashes two cards and gains 1 card that somehow combines the cost of the two cards. I'm not sure if the gain should be required, if the gain should be "up to" the combined cost or "exactly", etc. Thinking gain optional / exactly is the right combination of restrictive and powerful; I don't want it to be too open ended and broad but I don't want it to suck with double Copper or Copper / Estate either. Making the gain optional avoids making it almost universally worse than Remake as well - this gets you potentially thinner. Maybe "up to 2" cards, but eh.

Edited: Going with "up to" instead of "exactly", and now I removed the "in coins" bit so you can gain debt and potion cards if you really wanted.

Quote
Vendor / Action - Attack, $4

$2
+1 Buy

--- horizontal line ---

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a card.


This is a card pulled from a shitty set I tried to start making like a year ago. This seemed like it was simple and had some potential. Basically it's Miltia if you actually use the extra Buy it gives you, and it's not if you don't. I'm concerned about the trigger though - if you have five out, do they all trigger at once, or sequentially? Is this solvable without unique wording? Anyway, Dominion could use extra buys and conditional attacks that don't get strong until later.

Quote
Investigate / Action, $5

+1 Card
+1 Action


If this is the first time you've played Investigate this turn If you have no other Investigate(s) in play, +2 Cards.

I was briefly working with a theme of Actions that only work well the first time you play them in a turn, perhaps as part of a variety pile or deck, but maybe as a full pile. Don't know yet. How's the power level for this one? I'm thinking it could bump down to a $4, or bump up a + card, but both seem absurdly powerful early then. Maybe make it a Peddler variant and the only bonus is a first play extra single card.

Edited: Minor buff for Procession tricks, a really cool boost with Inheritance, etc. Considering the self-trash buff Accatitippi suggested, also weighing the idea of incorporating other trash-from-play cards into my set for some synergy.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 05:24:43 pm by Chris is me »
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2016, 02:04:01 pm »
+1

Some simple but interesting concepts. They all look balanced for their cost to me.

Recombobulate looks good, if perhaps a bit uninspiring? I think that changing it to "...costing up to..." would be a more handy buff than letting you trash only one card. It adds flexibilty early on, and later it will mill Provinces in a more unique way.

I think Vendor works like this: if you have two in play, both trigger when you buy the first card, and you choose what effects happens first (it doesn't matter because they are the same, but both happen), so they discard down to 3 even though you bought only one card. I don't have a simple solution for this.
Anyway, using a Goons-like clause to modulate an attack is a very good idea, but I think I'd like it more if it scaled down to the third or fourth buy (which you can't really do on a discard attack), because then it would make you play more differently than you would otherwise do. As is, I would usually buy two or more cards almost every time I play a Woodcutter, because if I got it then i probably have a use for the Buys.

Investigate is definitely the most interesting. I'd change it to "if you have no Investigate in play" because that's easier to track and then incidentally creates a few unique interactions with stuff like Procession.
A little idea for a buff that may or may not be worth your while could then be to add a "You may trash this" to the play effect, to occasionally make it a sort of Mining Village/Madman mash-up.
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Chris is me

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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2016, 02:11:56 pm »
0

Some simple but interesting concepts. They all look balanced for their cost to me.

Thanks for your thoughts! I really thought especially for my first cards, I wanted to go with simpler cards, because that's what a lot of my friends like to play with and it's really easy to dig yourself into a deep hole with complex interactions. Gotta walk before you can run blah blah.

Quote
Recombobulate looks good, if perhaps a bit uninspiring? I think that changing it to "...costing up to..." would be a more handy buff than letting you trash only one card. It adds flexibilty early on, and later it will mill Provinces in a more unique way.

I like that buff better than "up to two cards", agreed. "Up to two cards" just means the card becomes a really easy Province miller, and there are already a lot of those! Let's make that function trickier in exchange for more power earlier; milling Provinces isn't fun, gaining cool shit is fun.

Quote
I think Vendor works like this: if you have two in play, both trigger when you buy the first card, and you choose what effects happens first (it doesn't matter because they are the same, but both happen), so they discard down to 3 even though you bought only one card. I don't have a simple solution for this.

I don't totally mind this consequence, because it's still nontrivial to get two terminals into play like that. I'm mostly concerned about, they have 5 cards, you have 5 in play, you buy one card, does their whole hand vanish? Is the "4 or more cards" check done at the time of the buy, or immediately as a card would be discarded?

Quote
Anyway, using a Goons-like clause to modulate an attack is a very good idea, but I think I'd like it more if it scaled down to the third or fourth buy (which you can't really do on a discard attack), because then it would make you play more differently than you would otherwise do. As is, I would usually buy two or more cards almost every time I play a Woodcutter, because if I got it then i probably have a use for the Buys.

Another variant I was toying with, but never quite figured out, was to increase handsizes on play and decrease on buy. This softens the attack so you really do want to buy a bunch of cards with it to undo the mess you've made, but it's really hard to make it not suck to play a lot of these one way or another, so I abandoned that.

Quote
Investigate is definitely the most interesting. I'd change it to "if you have no Investigate in play" because that's easier to track and then incidentally creates a few unique interactions with stuff like Procession.
A little idea for a buff that may or may not be worth your while could then be to add a "You may trash this" to the play effect, to occasionally make it a sort of Mining Village/Madman mash-up.

I really like the on-trash effect. I wanted the in-play variant of the wording to make tracking easier and to do cool Procession tricks, but for some reason I couldn't figure out the wording, so thanks for that. I'll work that in.

More cards coming soon.
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2016, 04:52:31 pm »
+1

Recombobulate needs 'trash 2 cards from your hand' in order to dovetail with other remodelers. Unless you want to go crazy and let it remodel from your discard or something. Not sure that it's strong enough, though; most of the time I'd rather have Steward, which is cheaper.

Vendor Seems weak. I can't imagine that I'd ever buy it over Militia unless there was no other +Buy. Maybe you could have it give out Coppers or Ruinses (potentially conditionally) instead of being a discard attack?

Investigate Any reason you're not using the "If this is the first time you've played Investigate" mechanic?

BTW I don't think that Procession works for Investigate, since you don't trash it until after you've played it twice, unless you're planning to play a second Investigate after you Procession the first one. Your wording seems like a lot of work just to get a modest boost with Possession.

Another possibility is that you could reveal your hand and draw 2 cards if you don't reveal a 2nd copy of Investigate, which would boost possession and also prevent Lab/HP-style chaining. But in any case, I think that I'd usually prefer the much-cheaper Menagerie over this.





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Chris is me

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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2016, 05:24:29 pm »
0

Recombobulate needs 'trash 2 cards from your hand' in order to dovetail with other remodelers. Unless you want to go crazy and let it remodel from your discard or something. Not sure that it's strong enough, though; most of the time I'd rather have Steward, which is cheaper.

For some reason I thought "from your hand" was some of the verbage removed in Second Edition. It was not removed. I'll put it in.

Quote
Vendor Seems weak. I can't imagine that I'd ever buy it over Militia unless there was no other +Buy. Maybe you could have it give out Coppers or Ruinses (potentially conditionally) instead of being a discard attack?

The idea is, +Buy is rare enough, and discards are rare enough, that you actually would get this on a board where you needed either of them. I guess if there's both Militia and +Buy on a board already, you wouldn't, but tons of cards fail that test. I feel like making it a junker would be potentially problematic since it sort of anti-synergizes with itself then - the discard attack isn't as brutal if you already had junk you didn't care about.

Quote
Investigate Any reason you're not using the "If this is the first time you've played Investigate" mechanic?

BTW I don't think that Procession works for Investigate, since you don't trash it until after you've played it twice, unless you're planning to play a second Investigate after you Procession the first one. Your wording seems like a lot of work just to get a modest boost with Possession.

Another possibility is that you could reveal your hand and draw 2 cards if you don't reveal a 2nd copy of Investigate, which would boost possession and also prevent Lab/HP-style chaining. But in any case, I think that I'd usually prefer the much-cheaper Menagerie over this.

It's the second copy thing, not the second play on Procession, you're right. It's also a little easier to track - if you Process Investigate, do a bunch of other stuff, and then later in the turn play another, you have to remember that you played Investigate, and it seemed like while a small problem an easy one to solve.

The comparison to Menagerie is a very good point - this is way more expensive than Menagerie and not really better. The difference is Menagerie you can't draw with on an opening but this you can. So maybe this card just needs to be reworked. I'll seriously consider your multiple copy reveal suggestion; that might be the best approach here.
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Chris is me

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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2016, 04:52:26 pm »
0

I really want a nonterminal draw that scales with number of plays / copies of it in play, but maybe Investigate is working in the wrong direction? Right now it has to be pricey because it's too good on the opening, and then it gets shitty right away but it stays a $5.

One solution could be to make the cost decrease with the number of copies of it in play. This encourages people to pick up a second or third to kind of have sprinkled through their deck and to increase the odds of getting that early handsize boost.

Quote
Investigate / Action, $5

+1 Card
+1 Action


If you have no other Investigate(s) in play, +2 Cards.

--- Horizontal Line ---

While this is in play, Investigate costs $1 less.

That isn't so bad?

The other idea I had would be a split pile thing, with the bottom half being an Action card that trashes Investigates from play and gives you VP for each trashed this way. A fairly substantial amount since it's capped at 5*X. Still working on that.
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2016, 08:53:53 am »
0

Quote
Junk Village / Action, $3 $2

+2 Actions

You may trash a card from your hand. If you don't, trash this.

----

When you trash this, you may gain a card costing less than it.


The idea is pretty simple - an early game Village that thins your deck! But the drawback is, a smaller hand, and if you run out of Junk soon you'll lose your Villages.

Considering something like "when you trash this, gain a Copper" or something to give other Junk Villages fuel. Otherwise, how's the power level?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 12:24:56 pm by Chris is me »
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2016, 08:56:34 am »
0

Quote
Junk Village / Action, $3

+2 Actions

You may trash a card from your hand. If you don't, trash this.

The idea is pretty simple - an early game Village that thins your deck! But the drawback is, a smaller hand, and if you run out of Junk soon you'll lose your Villages.

Considering something like "when you trash this, gain a Copper" or something to give other Junk Villages fuel. Otherwise, how's the power level?

It's cool, but for $2 imo. Compare with Raze.
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Chris is me

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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2016, 09:22:22 am »
0

$2 makes sense, especially since it is somewhat comparable to Native Village. I'll change that. (Plus I need more $2 costs)
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2016, 09:28:07 am »
0

I really want a nonterminal draw that scales with number of plays / copies of it in play, but maybe Investigate is working in the wrong direction? Right now it has to be pricey because it's too good on the opening, and then it gets shitty right away but it stays a $5.

One solution could be to make the cost decrease with the number of copies of it in play. This encourages people to pick up a second or third to kind of have sprinkled through their deck and to increase the odds of getting that early handsize boost.

Quote
Investigate / Action, $5

+1 Card
+1 Action


If you have no other Investigate(s) in play, +2 Cards.

--- Horizontal Line ---

While this is in play, Investigate costs $1 less.

That isn't so bad?

The other idea I had would be a split pile thing, with the bottom half being an Action card that trashes Investigates from play and gives you VP for each trashed this way. A fairly substantial amount since it's capped at 5*X. Still working on that.

I dislike these "If no other of the same card in play effects" Since it's never really wrong to buy one of them, and you can buy more depending on your deck volume, and if they collide or not is just luck based.
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2016, 12:26:13 pm »
0

Made my first card mockup today, thought I'd show it off. Coin symbols seem a bit small. Image is just pulled off of Google Image Search for the name of the card; until I actually find time to get or commission real art I'll just do that.



Also, here's a new concept card. Well, the concept is almost certainly not new, because the card is very vanilla, but I thought it was an okay idea. It's basically just super Pawn.

Quote
Flea Market / Action, $5

+1 Action

Choose two: +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, +$1. The choices must be different.

No matter what you pick, the card is going to be overpriced; you're paying for the versatility here I guess. But I thought another maybe-Village wouldn't kill anyone.
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2016, 12:35:30 pm »
0

Are you using GIMP? If so, you can right click the coin icons in the Layers tab, and then hit "Scale Layer" and scale them to 62 px or so, and if you use the text tool (bottom one off to the left side) you can make the text boxes have the same size font. Oh, and searching "Digital art X", "Deviantart X", "X Painting", or "X art" you can usually find some good results.
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2016, 12:46:58 pm »
+2


It's basically just super Pawn.

You should name it Rook.

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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2016, 06:09:23 am »
0

Flea Market is either a Village ($3), a Market Square ($3) without the best bit, a Peddler (worth slightly less than $4, seems to be the consensus), or... a Festival ($5) without any one of the things? I don't think the flexibility quite bumps it up to be worth $5. Regular Market gives you everything at once except the extra action, and that's not exactly a power 5. I think you could get away with $4. Might be a bit overpowered though.
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2016, 10:26:52 am »
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Flea Market is either a Village ($3), a Market Square ($3) without the best bit, a Peddler (worth slightly less than $4, seems to be the consensus), or... a Festival ($5) without any one of the things? I don't think the flexibility quite bumps it up to be worth $5. Regular Market gives you everything at once except the extra action, and that's not exactly a power 5. I think you could get away with $4. Might be a bit overpowered though.

It's strictly better than Poacher, which costs $4.
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2016, 10:30:05 am »
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Flea Market is either a Village ($3), a Market Square ($3) without the best bit, a Peddler (worth slightly less than $4, seems to be the consensus), or... a Festival ($5) without any one of the things? I don't think the flexibility quite bumps it up to be worth $5. Regular Market gives you everything at once except the extra action, and that's not exactly a power 5. I think you could get away with $4. Might be a bit overpowered though.

It's strictly better than Poacher, which costs $4.
What about Tunnel? Or Library? Or JOAT? Or Watchtower?
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2016, 11:05:28 am »
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Huh. Am I misremembering that thing about Peddler being worth a bit less than 4 then?
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2016, 11:31:58 am »
0

Huh. Am I misremembering that thing about Peddler being worth a bit less than 4 then?

Poacher : Since Poacher was added to the game, a peddler is worth about 4.5 coins.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 11:35:17 am by loneXolf »
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2016, 11:49:46 am »
0

It's strictly better than Poacher, which costs $4.

Something something Tunnel/draw-to-X.
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2016, 12:16:37 pm »
0

It's strictly better than Poacher, which costs $4.

Something something Tunnel/draw-to-X.

Are you really saying Poacher is better than Vanilla Peddlers since it works well with Tunnel, Diplomat, and Library type cards. Because in a good amount of kingdoms 1. The province pile will be out before other piles, and 2. No such card would be there to combo with poacher.
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2016, 04:04:04 pm »
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I think one reason that Poacher discards is so that it doesn't cause strictly better/worse problems, and not necessarily that it would be too strong without it.
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2016, 06:27:30 pm »
+1

Made my first card mockup today, thought I'd show it off. Coin symbols seem a bit small. Image is just pulled off of Google Image Search for the name of the card; until I actually find time to get or commission real art I'll just do that.




The problem with this is that the first one is completely strictly better than Laboratory. Even if you draw 2 in the same hand, it's identical to drawing 2 Labs. So you would never buy Laboratory until you had at least 2 of these.
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2016, 06:44:52 pm »
0

I think one reason that Poacher discards is so that it doesn't cause strictly better/worse problems, and not necessarily that it would be too strong without it.

It's clearly worst than a normal peddler in most kingdoms. Once one supply pile is empty it's pretty much a Oasis(costs 3) even if you want Poacher to be Oasis for some card combo, it's hard to control since you need one supply pile gone and it's even worst when 2 supply piles are gone.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 06:51:51 pm by loneXolf »
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2016, 06:09:06 pm »
0

I think one reason that Poacher discards is so that it doesn't cause strictly better/worse problems, and not necessarily that it would be too strong without it.

It's clearly worst than a normal peddler in most kingdoms. Once one supply pile is empty it's pretty much a Oasis(costs 3) even if you want Poacher to be Oasis for some card combo, it's hard to control since you need one supply pile gone and it's even worst when 2 supply piles are gone.
Poacher is not strictly worse than a hypothetical Peddler that costs 4. On average it is a tad weaker... but when one pile is empty folks often start to green anyway so the discarding is not much of a liability.
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Re: Chris's half-assed card concepts thread
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2016, 07:38:49 pm »
0

I think one reason that Poacher discards is so that it doesn't cause strictly better/worse problems, and not necessarily that it would be too strong without it.

It's clearly worst than a normal peddler in most kingdoms. Once one supply pile is empty it's pretty much a Oasis(costs 3) even if you want Poacher to be Oasis for some card combo, it's hard to control since you need one supply pile gone and it's even worst when 2 supply piles are gone.
Poacher is not strictly worse than a hypothetical Peddler that costs 4. On average it is a tad weaker... but when one pile is empty folks often start to green anyway so the discarding is not much of a liability.

It's not strictly worse in the literal sense, but you need a pretty specific combo to make it not worse.
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