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NoMoreFun

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Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« on: February 01, 2012, 01:04:11 pm »
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All kinds of feedback, from costs and names to concepts, and from unconstructive criticism to blind praise will be much appreciated.

The expansion is a small box expansion with 150 cards (I like working within the same constraints as donald X).

There are some rules clarifications to fit in with some of the stranger cards in the expansion:
*Each supply pile is named after the cards in it when the game is first set up
*When you are instructed to gain a card, you gain the top card from that supply pile
*When you buy a card, do things in the following order: "Buy" the card -> Resolve any When Buy effects -> Gain the card -> Resolve any when gain effects
*When you are instructed to return a card to the supply, return it to the top
*URGENT cards are coloured red, and you follow the red text on the card if the conditions are met
*RULE cards are also coloured red, and remain in play until add a rule that must be followed for the rest of the game
*There is only one of each Italics card in the supply pile. They have blue backs, and also function as the randomisers for the card they refer to.
*When all players gain a card, they do so in a clockwise order from the player whose turn it currently is, starting to the player to the left.
*In every card's text, Curse refers to the type of card, not the card named "Curse".

Without further ado, the cards. The theme is cards with a mind of their own. There's also a focus on interactivity. The "special" component of the expansion is the single cards that you can put on top of existing piles to spice up the game.


Ambush:
Cost:3
Action/URGENT
+1 Card, +1 Action
You may place this card anywhere inside any supply pile.
---
When this card appears on top of a supply pile other than "Ambush": Trash this card. If any cards were gained this turn, trash them. If it's your turn, you must either trash or discard all cards in play; you must at least trash the treasure or attack card of highest cost in play.

Uncertainty
Cost:3
RULE
You may not count the number of cards in a supply pile or otherwise view their contents. You may trash this rule when all 10 "Ambush" cards are in the trash pile.
---
When you gain this card, gain an Ambush and immediately put this into play

Setup: Place this card on top of the Ambush supply pile


Arms Dealer
Cost: 5
Action
+1 action
+1 buy
While an Arms Dealer is in play, when you gain an action or treasure card, you may make all other players gain a copy of it as well. If you do, +1 coin, and you may then choose to return the gained card to the supply pile. If you do, +coin equal to the price of that card.

Tactic
Cost: 3
Action
You may immediately buy a card. If it's an action or treasure card, play it.


Maneuver
Special/URGENT
Cost: 0
If there are 2 empty supply piles and this card is on top of a supply pile: Trash this card
When you buy this card, +1 card, +1 action. You cannot gain this card.

Setup: Place this card at the bottom of the "First Strike" supply pile.



Lifeline
Cost: 5
Action/Reaction
+1 Card. +1 action. If you drew this card as part of an action, you may reveal it. If you do, +1 card.
On the back of the card: URGENT: If you are not currently drawing cards as part of an action or attack, when this card appears on the top of your deck, place it in your hand. This does not count as a draw. You may shuffle this card anywhere into your deck.

Missionary
Cost: 4
Action
Name a card other than "Province" or "Colony". Gain that card and put it in your hand.  Reveal your hand, and trash all cards of that name in your hand and in play.

Racketeer:
Cost:2
Action
+1 card. +1 action. Gain a card from the supply pile with "Racket" on top of it.

Racket:
Cost: 7
Special
While this card is on top of a supply pile, when you are instructed to gain a card from this supply pile other than by playing "Racket", gain a curse instead. When you buy this card, move it to any kingdom's supply pile. If you move it from the Racketeer supply pile, gain a racketeer and put it on top of your deck. Setup: Place this on top of the racketeer supply pile.


Relic:
Cost: 5
Action
+1 Coin, +1 Card
---
When this card is in the supply, when you buy a curse, gain a Relic and a Silver. If you gain a Relic any other way, gain a Gold and a Curse.

Salesman:
Cost: 4
Action
 +1 card, +1 action +1 buy. Reveal the top card of the sale deck.  You may either, buy a copy of it for 2 less than its price during the buy phase, or trash a card of value at least 2 less than it to gain a copy of it it. During the clean up phase, shuffle the sale deck. Setup: Create a sale deck from the randomiser cards of the kingdom cards in the supply.

Scrapyard:
Cost: 4
Action/Reaction
+2 Actions
+1 Card
Trash a card from your hand
If there is a card of cost 6 or higher in the trash pile, +1 coin, +1 buy
---
When you trash cards as the result of an action, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, +1 card. You may only do this once per action.

Settlers
Cost: 5
Action/Attack/Victory
Each other player gains a curse
Worth 1 VP for every 2 curses (rounded down) in the deck of the player with the most curses in it

Tower
Action/Victory
Cost: 4
You may move the Foundation card to the bottom of any kingdom card's supply pile.

Worth 1 VP for every 2 cards in the supply pile with "Foundation" in it (rounded up).

Foundation
Special/URGENT
If it's your turn: If this card is on top of a supply pile, immediately move it to the bottom of a kingdom's supply pile of your choice. Setup: Place this card at the bottom of the "tower" supply pile


Warchest
Cost: 4
Treasure
Value: 2
When you play this, gain a copper in hand, then set aside at least one treasure from your hand.
You may trash this card from your hand at any time.
When this card is trashed, place all the set aside treasures in your hand.

White Elephant
Cost: 4
Action
+2 VP Chips. If you this card is in your hand during the clean up phase, trash it instead, and gain a curse.

Pride
Cost: 4
RULE
You must reveal your hand at the beginning of your cleanup phase. You may Trash this rule if all 10 White Elephants are in the trash pile.

When you gain this, gain a White Elephant, and you must immediately place this card in play
Setup: Place this card on top of the White Elephant deck



Also, 3 special cards that retrofit to existing piles as variants

Conflict:
Cost: 0
RULE
Estates have a cost of 0 during the buy phase
Trash this rule when a player gains any victory card other than "Duchy", whether it is in play or not.
---
When you gain this, gain an Estate and play this card immediately

Setup: Place this card on top of the Estate supply pile.


Burden:
Cost: 0
Action/Curse
Worth -3 VP
+1 action. Gain a curse in hand, then trash this card. When this card is trashed, place it on top of the "Curse" supply pile. Setup: Place this card on top of the Curse supply pile

Rare Coin:
Cost: 0
Treasure
Worth 1 coin
When you play this card, you may gain a copper. Then, trash this card. When this card is trashed, place it on top of the "Copper" supply pile. Coin Setup: Place this card on top of the "Copper" supply pile


More Clarifications:
*Cards with unique blue cards can't appear in the black market or sale deck (so it's a bit ironic that Salesman is in this expansion).
*Lifeline has no special text or symbols on the back of its randomiser card. If you use randomiser cards for "black market" for convenience, you should still gain a regular copy of the lifeline card if you buy it.
*The immediate buy for "Tactic" works exactly the same as the buy in "Black Market". You may play as many treasures as you want and there's no obligation to buy anything. In fact, its name is a nod to its combination with Tactician.
*The wording of Scrapyard is such that if you trash multiple cards using the same action (eg Chapel, Steward, Remake), you still only draw a single card. However if you play 2 Remodels or Feasts (for example), you can draw a card for each Remodel you play by revealing Scrapyard.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 08:59:27 am by NoMoreFun »
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ftl

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2012, 03:06:00 pm »
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So, is Arms Dealer really working how you intend? Because as it is, it turns ANY +buy card or any gainer, including itself, into a curser which isn't even an attack. (Play Arms Dealer, use all your buys on curses, then discard arms dealer from play to get +1 buy and buy whatever it is you intended to buy this turn anyway)
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2012, 03:22:04 pm »
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First Strike doesn't quite work... a few different people have tried something like this, and it's always the same problem... Treasure cards don't have a "face value." What about Bank, Philosopher's Stone, and Copper with Coppersmith in play?
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2012, 03:27:17 pm »
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So, is Arms Dealer really working how you intend? Because as it is, it turns ANY +buy card or any gainer, including itself, into a curser which isn't even an attack. (Play Arms Dealer, use all your buys on curses, then discard arms dealer from play to get +1 buy and buy whatever it is you intended to buy this turn anyway)

That was the intention - it's basically a witch, but if you've got extra buys you can do extra curses. I haven't playtested it but the way you put it I guess it does seem broken.

First Strike doesn't quite work... a few different people have tried something like this, and it's always the same problem... Treasure cards don't have a "face value." What about Bank, Philosopher's Stone, and Copper with Coppersmith in play?

I want it to work like the "immediate buy" in Black Market.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2012, 03:38:55 pm »
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First Strike doesn't quite work... a few different people have tried something like this, and it's always the same problem... Treasure cards don't have a "face value." What about Bank, Philosopher's Stone, and Copper with Coppersmith in play?

I want it to work like the "immediate buy" in Black Market.

In that case you can probably just give Black Market type wording... "Buy one card in the Supply. Play it immediately." Just checked that the Black Market card itself doesn't mention that you can play your treasures first. I guess that's just in the FAQ; it could be the same for First Strike.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2012, 03:49:58 pm »
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Arms Dealer is probably insanely powerful in sets with any +buy, and better than a Familiar without. Granted, there's no +card, but it stacks with itself. If you get 2 of them in play, then that's 3 Curses you give out. If you get 3 of them in play, that's 6 Curses. 4 of them is 10 Curses.
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petrie911

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2012, 04:00:56 pm »
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Missionary is a crazy good opener.  Gain a Gold/Platinum?  Yes please.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2012, 04:33:27 pm »
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Missionary is a crazy good opener.  Gain a Gold/Platinum?  Yes please.

You have to trash it immediately.

EDIT: But I didn't type that. Oops. Fix'd.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2012, 04:40:40 pm »
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Arms Dealer is probably insanely powerful in sets with any +buy, and better than a Familiar without. Granted, there's no +card, but it stacks with itself. If you get 2 of them in play, then that's 3 Curses you give out. If you get 3 of them in play, that's 6 Curses. 4 of them is 10 Curses.

I don't intend for it to stack. You're either in arms dealer mode, where everyone else gains a single copy of the card instead of you gaining one, or you're not. Arms dealer+Arms dealer will give you one more buy, that's it (it'd be the same as market+arms dealer). Throne Room+Arms dealer would be useless. How do I word it so that's a bit more clear?

Also the tradeoff is you don't get to use your +buys to buy cards you want, but of course in many games with +buy you don't actually use them, so I suppose it's more powerful than I think.
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petrie911

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2012, 04:49:44 pm »
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As far as I can tell, the wording of Arms Dealer won't make it stack.  Once the gain event is replaced, it can't be replaced again.

The "discard at any time" effect should be restricted to your turn.  I'm pretty sure it's only useful during your turn anyways, and getting +1 Buy when it's not your turn makes very little sense.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 05:00:49 pm »
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Arms Dealer is probably insanely powerful in sets with any +buy, and better than a Familiar without. Granted, there's no +card, but it stacks with itself. If you get 2 of them in play, then that's 3 Curses you give out. If you get 3 of them in play, that's 6 Curses. 4 of them is 10 Curses.

I don't intend for it to stack. You're either in arms dealer mode, where everyone else gains a single copy of the card instead of you gaining one, or you're not. Arms dealer+Arms dealer will give you one more buy, that's it (it'd be the same as market+arms dealer). Throne Room+Arms dealer would be useless. How do I word it so that's a bit more clear?

Also the tradeoff is you don't get to use your +buys to buy cards you want, but of course in many games with +buy you don't actually use them, so I suppose it's more powerful than I think.

The "when in play" made it clear that Throne Room / King's Court won't double the effect. But I thought having 2 of them out at once would. But petrie911 might be right... because it's an "instead." I don't think Dominion quite has rules, like MTG does, dealing with "replacement effects." The only thing that exists like that is the "would gain" wording on Trader and Possession. And with that wording,  both Arms Dealers in play would trigger when you would gain a card. I don't know what wording can be used to fix it. I can't think of anything to specifically make it so that only 1 of the 2 Arms Dealers will trigger.
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ftl

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 05:09:03 pm »
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Yeah, using +buys to give out curses is typically far, far more powerful than using +buys to split up one good card into two small ones.  Also, Arms Dealer says it's a reaction... but what's it a reaction to? There's no 'when something happens, reveal this...' clause.

Ambush - sort of like a one-time embargo? Except one that gives the player the option of trashing coppers. Hm. Interesting. You should be very specific as to who gains the curse and trashes things, though. As it is, it's not clear. Usually, cards will say 'do something' if the player who played it has to do something, or 'every player does something' or 'every OTHER player does something', referring to every player besides the one who played it. But what happens here? Who is 'you' if it's not the person who played the card? After all, the Ambush might come to the top because the player whose turn it is gained the top card of some supply pile, or because some OTHER player chose to gain the top card of some supply pile during the current player's turn. Or because the current player chose to make the other players gain the top card of a supply pile.

Lifeline is far underpriced at 2.
1) It's a cantrip moat.
2) that guarantees a 6-card hand at he start of every shuffle! (since you can put it as the card right after you draw your five). Makes for some pretty epic engines - if you draw your whole deck, then discard your whole deck, then shuffle, and place all the lifelines so that you start next turn with a 10-card hand.

I'd worry that in a set with a lifeline, basically all attacks are not worth it, because this card is just so spammable. And, by the placement, it's so easy to make sure you get one every hand.

Also, you really would need to clarify how this works when you draw it in the middle of something. If I play smithy, and I draw one card... and then the second card on top is Lifeline... do I draw it for free, and then draw two more with Smithy? Or does it count as one of the three? Does it work in the middle of a hunting party chain - if I play Hunting Party, does one of these go into my hand each time it gets on top of the deck? If so, I would be wary that a properly done hunting party or golem might automatically draw all of your lifelines into your hand every time.

Missionary needs a 'reveal your hand' clause, since otherwise there is no accountability for whether you actually have any of the named card in your hand. It's still a really good opener - trash all the estates and coppers really fast, even if you fix the Platinum thing. Not quite as good as chapel.

Relic is really weird! It seems like it could be fun, but I haven't the faintest idea of how it will play. I suspect that it gives out too many curses to the person who uses it to be useful, unless that person also has trader or watchtower... 

Salesman - there aren't enough randomizer cards, because one goes on the bottom of the pile face-down to mark when the pile is empty, I don't have a second copy to use as a salesman deck!

Tower - just checking that you've thought about swinginess. Whoever ends the game by buying a tower can change the value of all the other towers in all other players decks from 1 to 6 or vice versa, depending on what kingdom pile he or she chooses. (Oh, btw, you also have to specify that it has to be a kingdom supply pile so you can't choose copper for insanely-valuable towers, you don't specify that on the 'tower base' card). But even then it might be a last-turn province for $4, or it could be an estate if the tower gets shifted out from under you.

Conquest - how does it work at the start? Who chooses a player?

By the way, be very, very scared of the Conquest/Watchtower combo. What if Conquest is at the top of a supply pile, and every player has a Watchtower in hand to reveal, and nobody wants it? Game is permanently stuck. Oh, and the Conquest/Trader combo, which lets the person who draws Conquest and Trader in the same hand gain all the silvers in one turn.

Warchest - has to cost more. It's already strictly better than silver, because it's a treasure that costs 3 and gives 2 coin, with the copper being permanently set-aside if you never want it. It's also playable as a one-time gold, (gives 2, gain a copper in hand, set aside that copper, trash warchest immediately). I suspect that to be consistent with other silvers-with-a-bonus, this should costs 5, or 4 at the least.

White elephant - what's the use case for this? I don't understand it. The way it looks is like it's a consolation prize for not drawing $5 for a duchy in the really late-game, and one that you hope you buy late enough that you never draw it and thus never discard during clean-up. Is that what it's supposed to be?  That's very marginal and won't actually affect how you play the game... maybe I'm missing something... Interestingly, it also creates a distinction based on when the game ends - does the cleanup phase of the game-ending turn ever happen? Never thought about that before. It probably happens. Oh, and it needs accountability. Typically, you don't reveal what cards you discard, and only the top card of the discard pile is visible. So there's no way to tell whether you discarded one during cleanup.

Burden - you should be really, really careful, because no other cards currently distinguish between Curse (the card) and Curse (the type). If Mountebank says to discard a curse, can you discard a burden or not?

Also - how do blue cards interact with Ambassador? Amb says to return cards to the supply, and blue cards can go on top of any pile, what happens when I ambassador a blue card? Can I put it anywhere? When Amb says to return cards to the supply - do they go on the top or bottom of the respective piles, or anywhere?
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012, 06:07:39 pm »
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Arms dealer is a reaction in that you can discard it when it's not your turn to draw a card, but I guess that's not really necessary.

Ambush you gain the curse if you turn up the card. If you gain a card, and then the top card of the supply pile is an ambush, you take all the hits. It's no longer "yours" when you put it in the deck. Also your opponent doesn't see where you put the ambush within the deck - I might give the card a different back so that you can know for sure it isn't at the bottom of a supply pile (which is only there so there's no conflict with Tower base). The curse was also added while I was writing; originally it was intentionally viable to Ambush yourself to trash your early treasures.

I'll increase the price of Lifeline. I had it at 4 because it's basically a different laboratory you have less control over, but I changed it to 2 while I was typing it for some reason (maybe because it does nothing once it's in your hand other than replace itself. I don't see how it's much better than moat as a reaction though, except against margrave and sea hag.

Lifeline is a free draw. You don't draw it. You put it in your hand, and it doesn't count as a draw. If you play smithy and you see the back of lifeline after the first draw, you put that in your hand and then you draw the other 2 cards. Hunting party and golem could put all the lifelines in your hand. Maybe I'll change it so that you can "draw" it in the middle of an action, and if you draw it that way, +1 card, but if it's just sitting there, grab it.

Missionary is meant to be a chapel that also burns through piles you think the opponent might really want (hence the reason it can't burn through provinces and colonies). It can also trash itself, but unlike chapel in games without cursers you might want to hang on to it.

Relic is basically a useless card that enables you to get a free silver (with baggage) or a cheaper gold (with baggage). I'd compare it to cache. The extra copper thing is something you'd almost never use, and is mainly there for theming.

I forgot about the empty pile thing, but I'd just use other markers. Also it's worth noting that the 3 cards with one off blue cards as part of their function wouldn't appear in the salesman deck.

I'll change moving the base of the tower to an action rather than a when buy, but buying all but one of the towers would be quite a foolish strategy. If you've got roughly equal numbers of towers then it won't matter about the sudden change of value. It's when one player buys all of them that things start getting problematic. I suppose if I change it to an action the best way to influence the value of towers is to whittle down the tower rather than pull the rug out. That's the purpose of the card.

If it's your turn, you gain conquest if it's out, so whoever goes first gets the conquest. I'll change it to "place" rather than gain to remove the trader conflict.

The problem with Warchest is once you use the extra power you've got a deck clogged with copper. I first thought of the concept when I was thinking of a treasure that hurt extra hard when a thief or pirate ship trashed it.
I didn't really intend for the "one time gold" effect (I was thinking you'd trash it without gaining the 2 coin), but maybe it's a feature I'd want with a price rise.

White elephant gives you +2 VP like monument. It's an action, and one you'd do well to play as many times as possible during the game so getting it early isn't a bad thing. The problem is when it gets into your hand, you HAVE to play it or you lose it, which could slow you down. It's named white elephant because it's a burden to keep in your deck but you get attached to it. The original idea was a victory card that you'd buy early and hang onto the whole game. The first idea I had was something like +8 VP but you can't buy it with any treasure other than copper and you lose it if you don't play it as your action. That seemed very situational though.

When it comes to gaining, gaining burden is identical to gaining curse, but once it's in your hand it's a different card, so mountebank would give you another curse -although I was thinking of calling it "curse" and just having the text below be different. The main goal with burden is to sort of add a "hot potato" element to cursing - having a burden in your hand should be essentially no different to having a regular curse.

The other 2 blue cards are basically Schrodingers Copper/Estate - they're in your hand and deck if you want them but if you don't they can vanish just as easily. Royal Estate in particular is functionally identical to an estate, except you can get rid of it if you think your hand will improve.

The blue cards will react to ambassador the same way as prize cards and black market cards - they aren't "in the supply" as such. I'm currently interpreting Ambassador as returning cards to the top of a supply, so you can use Ambassador to hide the blue cards and "Racket". Conquest should ALWAYS be in someone's deck - it just needs to start somewhere.







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ftl

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2012, 09:21:12 pm »
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Also your opponent doesn't see where you put the ambush within the deck

Yes, they do. You can count the number of cards in a supply pile at any time, so you can look through the supply pile and see where the ambush is.

Quote
don't see how it's much better than moat as a reaction though, except against margrave and sea hag.
Because it's spammable. If you buy up a bunch of moats, yeah, you can prevent attacks, but your deck will suck. Here, the fact that it's a cantrip means it's okay to get multiples.

Also, the deck rearranging means that multiples will never clash, so you can get exactly the number of them that you need to shut down all attacks. In a BM+ deck, you can actually count the exact number and rearrange them so you draw exactly one each turn.

Also, every single one is ALSO a free laboratory, since it increases your handsize by 1 - since as you say it doesn't count as a 'draw', when you draw 5 cards at the end of your cleanup phase, this doesn't count as one of them, so you get a 6-card hand. It's as if Laboratory got a moat power.

I'd say it's no less than a 5-cost card. It's a laboratory that you have more control over, with a moat attached. Maybe even a 6, since it seems strictly superior to laboratory... it even gives you no downside if you draw it dead!

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If it's your turn, you gain conquest if it's out, so whoever goes first gets the conquest. I'll change it to "place" rather than gain to remove the trader conflict.

In that case, it gives a pretty noticeable first-player advantage in Peddler, Conspirator, Scrying Pool games, since you get a free cantrip... (maybe others? Are there other cards that like having cantrips in your deck just for the sake of having cantrips?)

Actually, in a lot of games, wouldn't P1 just never give it up until the last shuffle, when p1 wants to decide what Settlers are worth? Just use it late enough that the other player never gets a chance to draw it and use it. So pretty big p1 advantage, they get to use an entire mechanic that they can lock p2 out of if they play it right.

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The problem with Warchest is once you use the extra power you've got a deck clogged with copper. I first thought of the concept when I was thinking of a treasure that hurt extra hard when a thief or pirate ship trashed it.

Oh, I didn't even think of the effect from PS or Thief. I was thinking of it as a silver that lets you 'save up' coppers for later. Which is pretty nice - any sort of BM+ deck would love to have these instead of silvers for late-game getting-through-greening. In most games, there isn't opponent's cards trashing your treasure.

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White elephant gives you +2 VP like monument.

Ohhhhh I misread it, sorry. That makes a lot more sense, it's a monument and not a vp card. I like it then.


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When it comes to gaining, gaining burden is identical to gaining curse, but once it's in your hand it's a different card, so mountebank would give you another curse

Just compare the wording. "Each other player may discard a Curse." from Mountebank to "You may discard a Treasure." from Stables. If Curse is a card type as it is if Burden is 'Action/Curse', then you can definitely discard a burden to a Mountebank.

It's not really a problem or anything I guess, just pointing it out. I wasn't sure at first.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2012, 09:52:00 pm »
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Also your opponent doesn't see where you put the ambush within the deck

Yes, they do. You can count the number of cards in a supply pile at any time, so you can look through the supply pile and see where the ambush is.

Damn. There's no way around that one. I guess I could just make a clause that when ambush is in the supply pile, you aren't allowed to do that.

The idea behind settlers is that is based off someone else's deck (since there's kind of a theme going on with decks you least expect having a bigger influence), but I didn't want to make it that simple. I also just really like the idea of single cards that go from deck to deck. You do best of out settlers if you treat them like cheaper duchies (and not doing some kind of "gardens" thing with estates - the best you can do is make each estate and settlers worth 2 each), and the "conquest" card would in most games just be something that gets passed around for strategy. I do the automatic gain thing to avoid the situation where the conquest is on the supply pile at the end of the game, though maybe I should write a condition for that instead.

Anyway, what would you suggest to balance the concept of Lifeline (a useful card that jumps into your hand as soon as it pops up)?
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ftl

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2012, 11:36:09 pm »
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and the "conquest" card would in most games just be something that gets passed around for strategy.

I think a tricky part is making the card worth passing around multiple times. As it is right now, there's mostly no disadvantage to just keeping it until the end of the game - unless you're playing something like Envoy-money or Smithy-money, where you really don't want cantrips because you might draw them dead.

You could try to put some benefit on the passing-it-around - something like 'you may trash this, if you do +1 coin' but that again gives a 1st-player benefit, since they start with it. I think it would have to be something like 'you MUST return this to the top of the pile when you play it' - that way it gets passed around each time, and it'll get passed around enough that whoever starts with it won't necessarily have it or not have it when they want it unless they deliberately avoid playing it.

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Anyway, what would you suggest to balance the concept of Lifeline (a useful card that jumps into your hand as soon as it pops up)?

Depends what you want from it, I think. It can't be a laboratory AND a moat AND cheap.  If it works like a laboratory (increases your handsize by 1) then it probably has to be $5 - if a card jumps into your hand, it's as if you just played a laboratory.

Here's one simple downside to make it work, I think - something like 'when you put this in your hand, discard 1 card'. Or maybe 2 cards. That way it's not a laboratory any more, just a cellar-for-1-card. Still really good at protecting against attacks, but then it's only useful for protecting against attacks, the cellar-1-card isn't that great. Probably still worth more than 2 for the really good attack protection, but $3 or $4 might work.

You could remove the +1 action instead. That would make it like a moat that's slightly faster at cycling and slightly better. Not necessarily interestingly so, though, seems like that would be pretty similar to moat... 

It's hard, because the 'jump into hand' thing already makes it have the value of 'a laboratory PLUS whatever else it does' so it's pretty hard to cost. I think the way to do it is with drawbacks, or benefits for your opponent? Maybe by letting your opponent do something when it jumps into your hand? Maybe let them discard 1 and draw 1, or discard 2 and draw 2, or something?
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ratxt1

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2012, 12:30:37 am »
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arms dealer has a problem as worded now. if they're are no cards in you're draw deck you can simply keep playing it and discarding it for +1 card +1 buy to generate as many buys as you want. this also allows you to buy out all the curses and coppers on one turn having you're oppoenent gain them which is pretty much gameover
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2012, 02:45:17 am »
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I've added 2 more blue cards. Check them out.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Conflict
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2012, 09:00:40 am »
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I posted the expansion on BGG with changes; check them out, including the "Rule" card (mainly used for clarifications)

Also I posted this to explain my thought process behind each card


My thoughts when creating the cards (presented like a Secret History)

Ambush: My way of implementing a "trap", and one of the first things I thought of when coming up with the idea of altering supply piles. It's designed to counteract cursing cards or predictable strategies. Most of the time it will be played directly below the top card of a supply pile, and it will function like an embargo in that sense. However it need not be, and it can lead to some clever mind games. It's also viable to deliberately ambush yourself to trash coppers; and this can be more widely employed than buying Mint.

Uncertainty: This was added (like Pride) because it's not worth adding in a complication to the rules for a single kingdom card. It also gives Ambush games a unique flavor.

Arms Dealer: I wanted a card that gave value to +buys if you didn't want to use them. Originally you could use buys to give unblockbale curses. Obviously this was too strong, hence the Action or Treasure distinction. It will be used as a copper attack mainly, but the +buy is there if you genuinely need it.

Tactic: Inspired by the immediate attack of Noble Brigand. It was originally called "first strike" but I learned about the Black Market/Tactician combo, and the name was changed accordingly. I personally really like combos like Black Market/Quarry and don't think they break the game.

Maneuver: This card doesn't really need to be here, but I liked the idea of an effect that came into play when a supply pile was depleted. Of course, this only works with Tactic and Black Market.

Lifeline: Originally the card was just a +1 card +1 action Moat that jumped into your hand when you needed it (eg when Margrave or Sea Hag attacked), and it was heavily underpriced at 2. I then noticed that it functioned similarly to Laboratory, but was more interesting in how it worked, so the moat effect was removed. The text is worded as such that you don't draw the card when searching the deck with venture, hunting party etc. and so Golem plays it, but it can't be drawn dead by Smithy. The Stash feature is a necessary due to needing the card to be identifiable and not being able to guarantee fair shuffling.

Missionary: A slightly slower, more costly variant of chapel that can trash itself, and the first card that can actively deplete supply piles. It's ability to trigger Ill Gotten Gains and Border Village is deliberate - in the case of the former the effect of cheaply giving out unblockable curses is mitigated by guaranteeing there's a curse trasher in the supply, while in the case of the latter it'll temporarily function as a stronger workshop.

Racketeer/Racket: This was the first "single card that changes the game" that I thought of, but the racketeer was created so that the "racket" has a home. Originally it sat on top of the provinces and cost far, far less. This card is designed to stop predictable strategies and also play a role in the stage of the game when grand market, possession and the $7 cards are viable, as well as the late game buying of alternative victory cards (this card can be a real obstacle a gardens strategy if played too predictably).

Relic: A spin on Cache, also bringing in the idea of a fairly useless card that's good for its remodel value. I also thought that it would be cool to have games in which people would actually buy a curse, although I don't think people will take the "free silver" option often.

Salesman: I wanted a card that did something with the randomisers, instead of just sitting there to remind players of empty piles. This card was costed to be a cheaper, riskier, market. The fact that it contradicts the other cards in the set (which don't have randomisers) didn't occur to me until I was typing this, but I don't think it's much of a problem

Scrapyard: The "village" of this expansion; too bad the name "Shanty Town" was taken. I wanted to make a card where you look closer at the trash pile, but I didn't want to fall into the trap that Yu-Gi-Oh fell into where "removed from play" was simply a different level of "Discard". The triggering of the new effects at 6  means that cards likely to be trashed (Copper, Curse, Estate, Feast, Ambush, White Elephant, Relic) don't trigger the effect, and instead either a conscious decision has to be made to give up a powerful card (usually a gold) to power up scrapyards, or the game has to have reached a point where golds are being remodelled into provinces.

Settlers: This expansion is trying to make other decks have an unexpected influence, and I wanted a "gardens" that was based off another players deck. Originally it was based off estates, but the idea of a curser that keeps track of cursing was the simplest.

Tower/Foundation: The card would fit well against the Variety theme of Cornucopia; fail to have variety and these cards will be very powerful by the end of the game. This card is also designed to somewhat direct the flow of gameplay; if one player is going for towers the best counter is usually to diminish the value of the pile, forcing the tower player onto the defensive.

Warchest: Originally called "piggy bank". This card was the best thing I could think of for a card that would be bought early in the game and used near (or at the end) of it. It's also designed so that Thief and Pirate Ship can have an added sting (by filling the deck with useless copper)

White Elephant/Pride: The idea is a very powerful card that you'd want as early as possible, but one that slows you down. The original concept was a very strong victory card you had to use as your action, but one that you couldn't buy with any treasure other than copper in play. This was a bit more fun, and less exploitable for the late game. The Pride rule exists just to keep players honest about whether there's a White Elephant in their hand. 

Conflict: I wanted to fit as much variety as possible into a theoretical small box expansion, so I came up with the three special cards that go on top of the piles that nobody would usually buy from in their right mind to add a bit of variety. Here I make estates free when nobody would be buying estates in their right mind anyway, to provide a little extra motivation. My first thought was that the first province or colony destroyed the rule, but I didn't want it to power up Gardens or Silk road too much.

Burden: Purely here for fun. It's a hot potato that in most cases will be thrown back. Might also create some interesting situations in games with Ill gotten gains or Familiar, with players waiting for the ideal moment to get that last curse in.


Rare Coin: A copper that you might actually want to buy. It might be worth hanging onto if you want your mountebanks, noble brigands, jesters and arms dealers to be fully effective, and it makes "Cache" all the more intriguing. I think it will come and go often enough to be fair.

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