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Author Topic: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)  (Read 4987 times)

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ashersky

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f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« on: October 19, 2016, 03:25:27 am »

Inspired by the rinkworks manifesto regarding fan cards for Dominion, here is my own game creation guide for f.ds mafia.

The text below is my own input, with additions from other experienced mods.  I will also link to contributions made in the comments that I either haven't assimilated below or may differ enough from my advice to fit better as a separate post.

For faust's thoughts, see here.
For scott_pilgrim's input, see here.
For silverspawn's argument against multiball (with which I may not agree), see here.


The first rule of mafia game design is you don't talk about...wait, no.  The first rule of mafia game design is that you can ignore all the rules.  Forum mafia is an unregulated genre of games that we all play for enjoyment and nothing else.  Even "officially" "sanctioned" "tournaments" are just regular mafia games played with a more diverse set of players.

So why write a guide at all?  Because for a lot of players, the amount of enjoyment garnered from a game is at least somewhat related to the design, balance, and theme of a game.

And why me?  At this point, cameos from golden oldies excepted, I am the longest tenured player/mod on the forum.  I've been honored to be chosen by other members of the forum as one of the best players, mods, and game designers around.  And lastly because I'm enamoured with the theory and meta of forum mafia, possibly even more than playing!

*These are my thoughts and opinions, and you don't even have to read them.  Other great mods will assuredly comment on them, both in agreement and disagreement.  You should definitely read those comments!*

A final note: this post is only about game design, not moderation.  As such, it does not discuss vote counts, in-game rulings, etc.

ashersky's tips, tricks, and warnings!

1. Know the game. Put in the simplest terms, you need to have experience as a player and a moderator before you can successfully design an original, spectacular game.  Ideally, you'll have played multiple games as both town and scum, as both vanilla and power roles, in the category of game you want to design.  There are multiple standard setups on f.ds that a player can moderation to gain experience.  The more familiar you are with the way games work, the better you can flesh out your own ideas.

2. Focus on the big picture. Mafia games need to be designed in full.  A designer's decisions about a role, power, etc. need to be made with every other role, power, etc. in mind.  Something that is cool in isolation may interact badly with a different part of the game.  Be ready to kill your darlings.  That one awesome idea you had might have set you on the path for this great setup, but maybe you need to excise that original thread for it to be successful.

3. Balance does not mean fair. Defining balance in the context of mafia games can be difficult.  A designer can think that a balanced game would result in every faction having an equal chance to win.  The reality of game design is that the addition of even a tiny amount of complexity will increase the instability of a game to the point of making it impossible to guarantee a specific win rate.  Just remember that that's okay.  Note: this is a contested topic.

4. Consider game-breaking strategies. Follow-the-Cop is the cautionary tale that all designers must memorize.  If you include roles or mechanics that can guarantee a faction a win, you need to think long and hard about the potential consequences.  A setup being closed does not mean the players won't figure out a way to break your game.  Keep in mind that often a strategy or interaction that causes a large enough swing in the favor of one faction, even without guaranteeing the win, is enough to ruin a game.

5. Ask yourself this question when considering a mechanic/role/power: What percentage of the time will a player choose to do X, given the consequences? Some of the most interesting, awesome roles or powers ever imagined are never included in games because the reward of using it never outweighs the risk.  A standard role that illustrates this important point is the Desperado: essentially a Day Vigilante, but making the wrong choice (shooting town) ends up in not just that townie's death, but your own.  The reward is high (unblockable kill, possibly taking out scum, settling a claim/counterclaim situation, etc.), and the risk is high (two town deaths).  The role has been successfully used in multiple setups.  This concept is often discussed in terms of positive and negative utility to a faction.  There are design choices to be made that include purposefully adding negative utility to a role, power, or faction.  Just be sure it is needed and thought out.

6. Be honest. Not just in ensuring the game you design doesn't stray into Bastard Mafia territory, but make sure your players can trust you.  Some of my own biggest failures in design have been the inclusion of roles or powers that the players honestly did not expect could be included.  Whether it was a recruitment power for scum in Dune or a ninja kill for scum in Modern Community without a complimentary town role, players expressed some level of unhappiness with the design feeling dishonest.  I don't regret the decisions I made, but I include this point for future game designers to consider -- think about the reaction of your players when they learn of a mechanic during or after the game.

7. Consider the open vs. semi-open vs. closed labels. Open  setups are the hardest to create in general, since the amount of balancing issues you have to consider increases exponentially with the complexity of the game.  Semi-open games can often act as templates to use (i.e., asher9++, which creates a different game each time and therefore have lots of replay value. Closed setups are generally the easiest to successfully run because even if you mess up balancing, it's unlikely to matter because people won't figure it out.

8. Provide as much information as you can.. Related to #s 6 and 7, you should endeavor to provide your players with as much information as possible.  While it may feel good, cool, smart, ingenious, or otherwise amazing to hide mechanic/role/setup information from the players, if only for the big reveal moment, it generally makes for a better game if players know what they are doing.  It is a harsh reality to realize, but often, those ah-ha moments only feel good for the designer, and leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the players.

*A Note on Flavor*

If you design a game around a specific flavor, a common theme here at f.ds, remember that others will know the flavor as well as you do.  Always take into consideration the extra care required to pull off thematically chosen or assigned powers, roles, and alignments -- not only for the game breaking possibilities someone with a lot of flavor knowledge could uncover, but also for the disagreements you might face from other die hard fans.  If flavor could give away a key part of the game, ensure there is a workaround, such as provided fake claims, or disclaimers in the setup information to dismiss the possibility.  To be clear: ensure there is no way a player is automatically cleared as town due to flavor name (unintentionally).

I think this is probably a work in progress, and I plan to add to it in the future.  I look forward to my fellow experienced mods adding to this reference guide, which I will reiterate is here not as a rule book, but a resource.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 09:31:21 am by ashersky »
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faust

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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2016, 05:04:09 am »

This is a very good idea!

I think probably a lot more can be said on the topic; if you go into the details, you can really get a guidebook the length of rinksworks' Fan Card Creation Guide.

Some comments and suggestions for additions:

- I don't think (3) is right. You should go for a game the has roughly equal win rate for each faction. A game having high variance doesn't mean that it cannot be fairly balanced from the start.

- (4) is probably one of the more crucial things. If you were to extend this guide, you'd spend a lot of time on different game-breaking things. This is especially important for an new mechanics you introduce into the game.

- I think ou should make a distinction between open/semi-open/closed setups. Open ones are the hardest to create in general, since the amount of balancing issues you have to consider increases exponentially with the complexity of the game. Semi-open games are basically templates to use like asher9++, which create a different game each time and there have lots of replayability value. Closed ones are fairly easy in that even if you mess up balancing, it's unlikely to matter because people won't figure it out.

- one could talk more about role creation. Like, when designing a new role, be sure that you have in mind how that power interacts with others. In general, you should be clear on how any two powers interact before the game starts. This is something I relatively often see made up on the go, which is a sign that you didn't think about the setup enough beforehand.

- we could have some links to well-designed games. This may be controversial I guess. But for example for open games, scott_pilgrim's Yoshi Island is the gold standard. Designing an open RMM that doesn't break and isn't boring is the hardest thing to do.

- For flavor, you should always make sure that some players aren't getting IC status due to their flavor name, unless you specifically want to have that interaction. I guess this is already implied in your post, but it could be clearer.

- there's also the usual "kill your darlings" advice. You may have started the design with a really cool role/interaction/mechanic in mind, then the game took shape and suddenly your amazing idea doesn't fit in. Maybe it just wasn't supposed to work! If the rest of the game looks fine, then that's worth a lot more.

- generally, one should aim to provide the players with as much information as possible. Mysterious roles are fine every once in a while, but it's usually better if the player knows exactly what their role does. It's better to be prepared for hypothetical interaction questions with hypothetical other roles that may not be in the game than to say "sorry; I cannot tell".

I'm sure there's more to say, but this is what came to my mind.
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ashersky

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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2016, 03:49:14 pm »

Great points!  I incorporated stuff, so please re-read!
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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2016, 07:52:25 pm »

+1


In the spirit of (4) and (8), I would say unless you have a good reason not to, Publish the VT PM. Maybe all Town roles or even all roles, but the VT one is the most important. The worst is Day 1 arguments and creating semi-ICs based on PM wordings, and it seems to happen pretty regularly.


- I don't think (3) is right. You should go for a game the has roughly equal win rate for each faction. A game having high variance doesn't mean that it cannot be fairly balanced from the start.

I think it's somewhere in the middle. For example, SKs rarely win, but that's balanced (I guess in terms of expected utility) by the fact that it's a big achievement to win by yourself. It probably wouldn't be considered fair for a single player to have a 1/3 chance at winning. Obviously SKs are something of a special case and the more standard you want a game to be the more you should strive for equal chances for Town and scum. But I think in less standard games it's fine to not have equal winning chances if for the players with lower chances it feels less unfair and more High Risk, High Reward.
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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2016, 08:16:35 pm »

Not to be mean Ashersky, but I feel like you start a bunch of Mafia projects then they sort of die off. Are you sure you have the time to create a guide like this?
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2016, 08:54:46 pm »

First off, this is a really good idea, and I like what you have so far.  I don't know how much (if any) of this you want to use, but I'm sort of writing independently of what you've already written.

Throughout I'm going to assume open or semi-open set-ups, because I've never played or tried to design (non-bastard) closed set-ups, and I'm not really sure what makes closed set-ups fun for people (I don't mean that as in "you're crazy if you like closed set-ups", just literally I'm not sure what makes them fun for people), so other people would have much better advice on that than me.

I think there are n different kinds of set-ups you can design, where n is a number I'll know when I'm done writing this post.

Unique Mechanic/Gameplay

The first kind of set-up you can have is one which revolves around some unique, original mechanic (usually).  Examples of this would be Yoshi's Island (RMM21), ADK's Insomnia (M78), silverspawn's Duel Mafia (M83), or Paris Mafia (M66).  In each of these cases, there's some unique mechanic that the game revolves around.  These set-ups usually tend to be open, because players need access to information about the mechanic and also because the mechanic is usually something that makes fake claims possible or irrelevant for scum, meaning it's not necessary to make the set-up semi-open; but it's not unreasonable to have a semi-open set-up in this category.

I said usually you have a unique mechanic, but really the defining characteristic of this type is that the set-up has a unique effect on the gameplay in some way.  So for example, a set-up like 8 cops vs. 5 goons would go in this category, because even though it consists only of traditional roles, the way that they're combined makes the game play in a very unusual way (scum can freely claim cop, which gives them lots of chances to throw people off; there's so many scum that they can drive wagons easily).  (By the way, I've thought about this set-up a lot and I think it's heavily scum-favored, but I'm not confident about that at all).

This is generally my favorite kind of set-up I think, because it makes players really think about all of their decisions regarding their roles and the set-up.  (In other words, it reduces the importance of the social deduction aspect of the game, which I personally am not really interested in.)  Unfortunately, it's hard to give advice about this category, because coming up with a new original mechanic isn't really something you can do intentionally.  Something might give you an idea, but there's no way (that I'm aware of) to force yourself to come up with a good idea.

However, once you've got an idea, here are some tips on how to implement it well:

1. Make sure that the unique mechanic has a both noticeable and positive impact on the gameplay.  There's nothing worse than coming up with a brilliant new idea, that ends up being irrelevant to the gameplay.  Actually, there is something worse, which is that your brilliant new idea actually makes the game less enjoyable.  So make sure you include roles that interact well with your new mechanic, and that the decisions your new mechanic creates will be interesting and make the game more fun for everyone.  And be willing to accept that maybe your idea just won't work out.  Look at it objectively and don't rationalize to yourself "here's why this is actually fun", if your gut says it isn't.

2. Include only the roles you need to to make your game interesting.  If your favorite role is Lightningrod, don't include a Lightningrod in your set-up just for the heck of it.  If it interacts with the other roles and mechanics in an interesting way, then great, go for it.  But if it's not adding any interesting decisions, simplicity is always better.  I dropped the ball on this one in Yoshi's Island when I included a town Roleblocker, which I knew wasn't doing much of anything, but I had playtested the set-up so many times with it that I didn't feel comfortable cutting it.  But overall the set-up would have been cleaner without it (or with something else instead of it).

3. Playtest your set-ups.  Well, mafia can't really be "playtested", without actually running the set-up, but run simulations to see roughly how well each side does.  The idea is that you play all the roles yourself, and whenever people would be making a "human" decision (like lynching), you make that decision randomly instead.  This won't give you accurate results, because town's ability to read scum will always have an effect on the game, so ideally your results should favor scum (usually, though there could potentially be things that would change this).  I think conventional wisdom is to aim for about a 70% scum win rate with random lynching, and then with human lynching it will balance out nicely.  Personally I think this is too high, I usually aim for 60%, but it also can depend on the mechanics of the set-up.

(Intermission)

Before I move on to the next type of set-up, let's ask ourselves, what's the point of a semi-open set-up?  Why include randomization in the set-up process?  Open set-ups offer the advantage that players have all the information they need to make well-informed decisions with their roles, and closed set-ups offer the advantage that the set-up is unsolvable, giving scum the freedom to fake claim whatever they need to.  Semi-open set-ups combine both of these benefits, via randomization.  The mod still describes how the randomization happens, so it's still "fair" in the sense that everyone knows what they're signing up for, but the randomization gives scum chances to claim things without town necessarily being able to confirm them as lies.

Let's think about this example set-up: The mod flips a coin.  The result determines which set-up is played:

Heads: 6 VT's, 1 Two-Shot Cop vs. 2 Mafia Goons
Tails: 5 VT's, 2 Two-Shot Cops vs. 2 Mafia Roleblockers

If we tried to just play the heads set-up, without the possibility of the tails set-up, we would have the problem that the cop would claim once his shots ran out, and become an IC since there's no other cops possible.  However, the heads set-up avoids this problem when town doesn't know whether it's the heads or tails set-up, because now it's possible for scum to claim cop without town counterclaiming.

So by adding uncertainty to the set-up, scum has more options on how they can claim.

Random Standard Roles

This is probably the most popular type of (non-closed) set-up on f.ds, at least in terms of how many games of that type get run.  This includes anything where you have standard roles that are put together according to some random process.  Examples include asher9++, gkrieg's game which is currently open for sign-ups (M88), or Arch's WIFOM set-up and variants (used in M87 Portal, M48 Legend of Zelda, and M38 Super Mario).

The main ideas with these types of set-ups are that you usually like to include a variety of roles, and you usually want to leave the possibilities of various combinations as open as possible (however, that's not necessary; you can also have more limited possibilities so that you can control exactly what kinds of interactions are possible).

Coming up with your own randomization mechanics can be fun, or maybe you already know what roles you want to include but you're not sure how to put them together.  In that case, here's a few randomization mechanics you can use:

1. Letter rolling: I'm going to assume you know how this works if you're reading this.  If you don't, see asher9++ for an example.  This mechanic gives you a very open space of possibilities for combinations of roles that can be included in the set-up.  For that reason, I think asher9++ (and maybe a few of the other similar standard set-ups using this mechanic) already have this mechanic pretty well covered, since they already cover the most standard roles, and there's not much more you could hope to do with it.  One advantage to this mechanic is that you can easily scale the power of scums' roles with towns' roles, based on how many PR letters town rolled.  Another advantage is that the variable numbers and types of town PR's gives scum lots of room for fake claims, making it nearly impossible to "solve" the set-up mid-game.  One drawback is that letters are usually all worth equal amounts (they don't have to be, but then it starts getting really complicated), so you might get a set-up that suggests docs and cops are equally valuable.

2. Point values for roles: This is a really broad mechanical idea that can be implemented in wildly different ways.  The idea is usually that you assign point values to different town roles, and then use the total point values of the randomly assigned town roles as a baseline for ensuring balance.  For example, in gkrieg's M88, random roles (with various point values, based on their strength) are chosen until the total points add up to 7, the idea being that 7 points-worth of town roles would generally be balanced.  In M60 Kirby Mafia, I rolled numbers from 1 to 7 to determine five roles that town got, and then scum got assigned roles based on the total of the rolls (higher numbers rolled resulted in stronger roles for both town and scum).  So there are lots of ways you can use this idea, but the core mechanic is to assign strength to town roles so that you can make sure they match the strength of scum's roles.

3. Randomizing from a discrete list of set-ups: This seems like a pretty basic idea but I don't think I've ever actually seen it used.  The idea is that you have some list of set-ups, and you choose one at random from that list.  The coin-flip example I gave earlier (where you play 6 VTs, 1 2-shot Cop vs. 2 Goons on heads and 5 VT's, 2 2-shots Cops vs. 2 Roleblockers on tails) is an example of this.  You could have more than two set-ups to choose from though, but since you have to list off every possible set-up, having more than 2 possibilities can get very complex very quickly.  This mechanic has both the advantage and disadvantage that it gives you an extremely narrow space of possible set-ups; basically you're using as little randomization as possible while still not being open.  I think you could use this mechanic to try to fix some simple set-ups that don't quite work as open set-ups.  This mechanic is useful if you want a lot of control over the set-up possibilities.

4. Randomizing town and scum roles together: Arch's WIFOM set-up has a mechanic that I really like, where you flip a coin for each of several different pairs of roles.  For each coin, on heads, you include a particular town role and a particular scum role, and on tails, you don't include either of them.  This means that scum will always get a chance to fake claim any town roles that aren't present in the game.  It also makes balancing fairly easy, because you can pair similar-strength roles with each other so that whenever one is present, so is the other.  This mechanic generally gives you a much narrower possibility space than #1 and #2, but still broader than #3.  (For example, Arch's WIFOM set-up gives you 32 possible set-ups, contrasted with the usually millions or more from #1 and #2, or the 2-4 you'd probably have for #3.)  So you can use this mechanic as sort of a happy medium when you want a fair amount of control over the possible set-ups, but still a good amount of variety in how many set-ups are possible.

Where there is randomness, there is probability to be done, especially on f.ds.  For better or for worse, semi-open set-ups can and will be analyzed with probability, and using more complicated randomization mechanics will exaggerate both the good and the bad aspects of that.  Lots of players like doing probability, so they might see it as a plus for your set-up to give them a challenging probability problem.  As a designer, you might be frustrated that they're taking the fun out of your game or they're abusing math to try to break your set-up.  The less "solvable" your randomization mechanics are, the more work players will have to put into "breaking" your set-up, which both means that fewer players will attempt to do so, but also that those who are successful are more heavily rewarded for using math, so they're more incentivized to do so.  This is probably something you want to consider when deciding on what kinds of mechanics to use.

Generally, you want to balance for each individual possibility, not just for the overall sum of all the possibilities.  For example, you could have a set-up like: Flip a coin.  On heads, all town players are 2-shot Bulletproof; on tails, all scum players are 2-shot Lynchproof.  In some sense, this set-up is balanced, because town and scum each have roughly a 50% chance of winning, but it also makes random chance the deciding factor, which is usually undesirable.  Ideally, you would like for every single possible set-up that you could have to be balanced.  So I suggest that if you're using a mechanic that gives you lots of possible set-ups, try rolling a bunch of set-ups.  See if they each look reasonably well-balanced individually.  I recommend rolling at least 10 times, so that you can see a variety of different kinds of set-ups you can have and make sure none of them will feel unfair for either side.

Look for good or bad combinations of roles.  Doctor is a decent role, and IC is a decent role, but Doctor and IC together are a lot stronger than the sum of Doctor and IC individually.  It's generally good to keep an eye out for role interactions like this.  That particular example is something that should catch your attention, but probably not a big enough deal to lose sleep over.  But because a lot of these kinds of set-ups allow for lots of different combinations of roles, it's a good idea to look for combinations that might make the game really lopsided or unfun.

Make sure scum can actually fake claim.  Since the main benefit of semi-open set-ups is that they give scum chances to fake claim, it would defeat the point if your set-up had randomness but still forced scum to claim VT.  Make sure that in most (or ideally, all) of the possible set-ups, scum will have opportunities to safely fake claim.  You should also think about how much information scum needs in order to fake claim.  You generally want the mod to tell them as little information about town's PR's as possible, while still ensuring that they have freedom in how the claim safely.

Simple/Newbie-Friendly

These can be either open or semi-open, but open is usually preferable.  If they are semi-open, you should avoid complicated randomization mechanics that newbies would find confusing.  The idea behind these set-ups is to keep the game as simple and vanilla as possible, while still making sure that a few players have night actions.  The goal is to introduce new people to mafia, so if the game is totally vanilla, you don't introduce them to the idea of power roles; but with a few simple PR's, they can see how night actions work and how they affect the game, even if they themselves don't have a PR.

These sorts of set-ups can be tough to design, because you need to watch out for role interactions (like follow the cop) and make sure scum has a chance to fake claim if necessary, all while keeping everything as simple as possible and using only the bare minimum number of roles.

Some simple roles that are generally very easy for newbies to understand are: Cop, Doctor, Innocent Child; some others that are generally simple enough to include in newbie set-ups are: 1-shot Bulletproof, Roleblocker, Tracker, Watcher, Vigilante (though this is really high-pressure so I would be careful with this).  Jailkeeper and Masons are also probably okay.



I might think of more things to add later, but I just spent way more time on this than I meant to.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2016, 08:56:25 pm »

Oh yeah, silverspawn should explain why he doesn't like multi-ball/SK's, because whenever he explains it I agree with him.  Some people like it and that's fine, but I think it's something that's good for designers to think about, whether their game really needs the possibility of an SK or if it's better when everyone knows there's only one scum team.
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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2016, 09:14:18 pm »

Can do.

In this format of the game, the basic task for town, which is to find out who is lying through behavior, is enormously hard. I think most of us would agree that it is a bit too hard, above what would be optimal. That's why we have setups where lynches need only be a few percentage points above pure randomness.

Likewise, it is a bit too easy for scum to hide themselves. Multi-ball and SK's both make it even easier because they make the difference between mafia and town play smaller. I would discourage that and encourage everything that does the opposite. SK's also introduce further swing through NK's that make lynches proportionally less important (and it removes the guarantee that town wins if they have good lynches).

ashersky

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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2016, 03:28:49 am »

Not to be mean Ashersky, but I feel like you start a bunch of Mafia projects then they sort of die off. Are you sure you have the time to create a guide like this?

Man, I'm on everybody's shitlist, aren't I? Good thing I recruited some actually respected players/mods to help moderate the board given the recent turn of attitude around here.

I could just delete my account Yuma-style, if that's preferred.
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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2016, 06:56:21 am »

Not to be mean Ashersky, but I feel like you start a bunch of Mafia projects then they sort of die off. Are you sure you have the time to create a guide like this?

Man, I'm on everybody's shitlist, aren't I? Good thing I recruited some actually respected players/mods to help moderate the board given the recent turn of attitude around here.

I could just delete my account Yuma-style, if that's preferred.
Come on man, that's not what I meant at all  :(

You can delete these posts if you want. I'm sorry for saying anything
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Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

silverspawn

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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2016, 08:41:56 am »

If I lost 10$ every time I failed with a personal project, I'd be bankrupt by now.

J Reggie

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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2016, 09:00:32 am »

Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about RR. Ash has so many awesome projects. Plus like, this as it is is already good.

Witherweaver

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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2016, 09:29:32 am »

Not to be mean Ashersky, but I feel like you start a bunch of Mafia projects then they sort of die off. Are you sure you have the time to create a guide like this?

Could you write up a guide to creating Mafia-related guides to help facilitate these types of projects?
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LaLight

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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2016, 09:33:36 am »

/tag
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gkrieg13

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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2016, 09:59:13 am »

Not to be mean Ashersky, but I feel like you start a bunch of Mafia projects then they sort of die off. Are you sure you have the time to create a guide like this?

Man, I'm on everybody's shitlist, aren't I? Good thing I recruited some actually respected players/mods to help moderate the board given the recent turn of attitude around here.

I could just delete my account Yuma-style, if that's preferred.
Come on man, that's not what I meant at all  :(

You can delete these posts if you want. I'm sorry for saying anything

Just wait until he makes a guide to creating guides!
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faust

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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2016, 10:03:24 am »

Not to be mean Ashersky, but I feel like you start a bunch of Mafia projects then they sort of die off. Are you sure you have the time to create a guide like this?

Man, I'm on everybody's shitlist, aren't I? Good thing I recruited some actually respected players/mods to help moderate the board given the recent turn of attitude around here.

I could just delete my account Yuma-style, if that's preferred.
Come on man, that's not what I meant at all  :(

You can delete these posts if you want. I'm sorry for saying anything

Just wait until he makes a guide to creating guides!
In the meantime, I'll make a guide to making jokes. First rule: check if the joke has alread been made in a previous post. If so, instead of making the joke again, explain it to make it funnier.
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Haddock

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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2016, 10:55:34 am »

Not to be mean Ashersky, but I feel like you start a bunch of Mafia projects then they sort of die off. Are you sure you have the time to create a guide like this?

Man, I'm on everybody's shitlist, aren't I? Good thing I recruited some actually respected players/mods to help moderate the board given the recent turn of attitude around here.

I could just delete my account Yuma-style, if that's preferred.
Come on man, that's not what I meant at all  :(

You can delete these posts if you want. I'm sorry for saying anything

Just wait until he makes a guide to creating guides!
In the meantime, I'll make a guide to making jokes. First rule: check if the joke has alread been made in a previous post. If so, instead of making the joke again, explain it to make it funnier.
By the way, everyone, this joke is a reference to the ongoing forum meme that on f.ds jokes are made funnier by proper and lengthy explanation.
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sudgy

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Re: f.ds Mafia Game Creation Guide(s)
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2016, 12:41:06 pm »

Not to be mean Ashersky, but I feel like you start a bunch of Mafia projects then they sort of die off. Are you sure you have the time to create a guide like this?

Man, I'm on everybody's shitlist, aren't I? Good thing I recruited some actually respected players/mods to help moderate the board given the recent turn of attitude around here.

I could just delete my account Yuma-style, if that's preferred.

Please don't.
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