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kru5h

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Kru5h's card ideas
« on: October 19, 2016, 01:56:12 am »
+8

My cards aspire to be the sequel to Intrigue. Lots of choices and duality. I call it Dominion: Conspiracy.

Card images by ThetaSigma12 and myself. Click to enhance.

Rabbits


You play this card and it goes on top of another card, preventing your opponent(s) from gaining cards from that pile until it's gone. It doesn't make players gain a curse, it doesn't even make cards cost more, it just makes the first card of a pile essentially cost two buys (or gains.)

But what if there are no +Buys? This could get quite annoying. Luckily Rabbits has +1 Buy, so there's always a card in the supply to alleviate that. Fight fire with fire, I always say. Of course, Rabbits aren't quite fire. When you fight Rabbits with Rabbits, you get more Rabbits. You didn't remove a Rabbits from the supply, you just moved it to a different supply pile. And now they're in your deck too, essentially functioning as a one-use buy. You can rid them from your deck, but then they just clog the supply board even more. These invasive vermin are everywhere!

You can also put this on the Curse pile and cursing attacks no longer work until that Rabbits is gained. Somebody playing a Jack of All Trades or Trader? Put Rabbits on the Silver pile.

Here's another animal card that multiplies:

Wasp (Supply = Same as Curse supply)


This turns the game into a temporary slog. It may seem like it's not worth it to turn the game into a slog since it will affect everybody, so only do this when you can handle the slog better than your opponents. You need to have either more Actions to play more Wasps, more trashing, more sifting, or more buys so that you can buy a Wasp to trash a Wasp and give everybody else more. These will clear out eventually, so then you can move on with the game as normal.


My next idea is about option-duration cards. The idea is simple. You choose between something tempting now, or something better next turn. Here's a simple example.

Bond


Here's one more:

Inventor


A super powerful card that you don't always want to play. If it's in play, you can't buy that super powerful card again. If you choose the stronger option of +4 cards, that's two turns that you can't buy more Inventors. Its power nerfs itself.

Cell


This is pretty much equivalent to playing a permanent Haven.

Sellout


Mulligan


Quote
Fast Track Event,
+1 Buy
If this is your first turn or second turn, gain a Duchy.

Quote
Collection Event,
Once per turn: You may gain a Copper, for +2 Buys.

Hounds


Of course, you don't have to name one of those types. If you're desperate for an attack or a traveller, you can forgo the bonus and simply dig for that specific card.

Loot/Cavern


Quote
Judge/Courthouse Action - Reaction - Victory Split Pile (Supply 12)

This pile starts the game with 6 copies of Judge on top, then 6 copies of Courthouse.
For a 2-player game, use only 4 of each card. Only the top card of the pile can be gained or bought.

Quote
Judge Action - Reaction,
Set this aside.
---
When the game would end (the first time), trash all Judges from the Supply and each player with any Judges set aside instead takes one extra turn, continuing in turn order.

Quote
Courthouse Victory,
7
---
You can't buy this unless this turn is an extra turn from Judges.

Quote
Pupil/Campus Action - Victory (Supply 12)
This pile starts with 6 copies of Pupil on top, then 6 copies of Campus. For a 2-player game, use only 4 of each. Only the top card of the pile can be gained or bought.

Quote
Pupil Action,
Play this as if it were a non-Pupil Action card from the Supply costing up to . This is that card until it leaves play.
---
When this leaves play, trash it.
Quote
Campus Victory,
During scoring, count this as a copy of any Victory card in your deck costing less than this.
---
When you gain this, gain a cheaper Victory card.

Locksmith


Locksmith unlocks your duration bonuses. Get tomorrow's bonuses today! For example, you can play Wharf and get +2 Cards and +1 Buy. Then you play Locksmith to unlock its additional 2 Cards and Buy this turn. (You discard Wharf at the end of this turn.) Turn Caravans into Labs. Turn Caravan Guard into Peddlers. Turn your Merchant Ships into +. Sometimes you don't want to fast forward your duration cards. For example, you want the attack bonus that Swamp Hag gives, but that's okay, it's nice to have the option. For cards like Champion and Outpost, this won't give you anything, but that's okay too; it doesn't mess anything up either. Sometimes there are no other duration cards in the supply, that's also okay because you can play it on itself.

Promotion


A Workshop/Remodel combination. I'm probably going to remove the "onto your deck" part.

Accomplice


Ivory Tower


Cipher


Quote
Scepter Action,
You may choose an Action card from your hand.
Choose one:
Play it twice; or reveal it and gain a copy of it.

Quote
Cooper Action,
Gain a card costing up to .
If it costs or less, +1 Card and +1 Action.
If it costs or less, +1 Buy and +.

Quote
Lost Coin Action,
Choose one or both: +1 Card and +1 Action;
and/or +.
If you chose both, return this to the Supply.

Bells


Trap


Quote
Angry Mob Action - Attack,
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may choose one: Discard a card, or put a card from your hand onto your deck.
If you did do one, each other player with 4 or more cards in hand does it too.

Quote
Bon Vivant Action,
+1 Card
+2 Actions
---
While this is in play, when you play an Action card, you may get +1 Card and +2 Actions instead of following its instructions.

Bon Vivant. Full of action and everybody wants to be him. In fact, you can be him. Got too many terminals? When you play this, you can turn some of them into Villages!

Quote
Blockade Action - Reaction,
Until the start of your next turn, you are unaffected by attacks.
At the start of your next turn, + and +1 Buy.
---
When another player plays an attack card, you may first play this from your hand.

Defends this turn or next turn. Twice as much defense for the cost of one card.

Jinx Tokens
Whenever you have 6 or more Jinx tokens, you return 6 and gain a Curse.

Caltrops



Quote
Critic Action - Attack,
+2 Cards
Each other player may discard any number of cards then takes one Jinx token per card in their hand.

Quote
Dagger Action - Treasure,
If it's your Action phase, trash a card from your hand.
If it's your Buy phase, +1 Buy.
---
When you discard this from play, you may shuffle it into your deck.

Quote
Tinker Action - Duration,
+3 Cards
At the start of Clean-up, you may discard this from play.
At the start of your next turn, if this is still in play, you may discard 2 cards to put this into your hand.

Quote
Tailor Action,
Choose two: +2 Cards; trash up to 2 cards from your hand; or gain a card costing up to .
The choices must be different.
Each other player may do the one you didn't choose.

-------------------

Removed Cards

Snakes

Slightly swingy. Not that exciting.

Magic Lamp

Too powerful.

Young Noble

Too weak/boring.

Quote
Warriors' Village Action - Attack,
+1 Card
+2 Actions

Each other player discards the top 2 cards of their deck. If they shuffle their deck, they gain a Curse.
This was a fun card, but had two fundamental problems.
1) Was very luck-based. When testing, sometimes one player would end up with 3 times as many curses as another player.
2) Why Village/Attack? You're going to buy Villages anyway, making them attack doesn't give them any extra incentive.
« Last Edit: Today at 12:35:53 am by kru5h »
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2016, 02:03:04 am »
+2

I like all of these at first glance.

I might argue there is an argument to be made to be able to remove rabbits all together one way or another.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 02:47:34 am by AdrianHealey »
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2016, 02:48:28 am »
0

*I originally added Inventor here, but now I edited it out and added it to my main post.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 03:47:14 am by kru5h »
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tristan

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2016, 03:17:32 am »
+2

Option durations are an interesting idea but the most innovative thing here is of course Rabbits. I would just slightly buff it via giving it +1 Coin.
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2016, 03:43:51 am »
0

Option durations are an interesting idea but the most innovative thing here is of course Rabbits. I would just slightly buff it via giving it +1 Coin.

I've actually been thinking about that for weeks. I've been 50/50 on it going back and forth, but I think I'm finally ready to accept that it needs +$1.

Asper

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2016, 05:11:52 am »
0

I'm not convinced of Rabbit. The fact I have to spend its own buy on itself if I want to keep my +Buy card makes it basically an Abandoned Mine. The "attack" is mostly a Super-Embargo that makes me gain a Ruins AND spend a buy. Ass it also never ends but even makes itself continue, it seems like it could really drag out a game.

AdrianHealey

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2016, 06:04:37 am »
0

I'm not convinced of Rabbit. The fact I have to spend its own buy on itself if I want to keep my +Buy card makes it basically an Abandoned Mine. The "attack" is mostly a Super-Embargo that makes me gain a Ruins AND spend a buy. Ass it also never ends but even makes itself continue, it seems like it could really drag out a game.

It's the last part that is the biggest problem. If there was a self-trashing ability, it would be a great idea. Definitely think it can work.

In slogs, it's horrible though. :p
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2016, 06:12:16 am »
0

One solution
Vould be:

----
When you buy this, you may gain or trash it.
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tristan

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2016, 02:27:43 pm »
0

The "attack" is mostly a Super-Embargo that makes me gain a Ruins AND spend a buy. Ass it also never ends but even makes itself continue, it seems like it could really drag out a game.
That's definitely a risk. But you only have an incentive to go for Rabbits if players pursue different strategies. In this case you don't view Rabbits as a liability, as quasi-junk, but you are actually happy that you get the Rabbits back from the liberated pile because you wanna use it to ruin your opponent's most valuable pile.
What I would mainly worry about is whether Rabbits totally ruins a pile in alt-VP games (without comfortable extra buys in the Kingdom). One player loads Rabbits upon Provinces while the other loads Rabbits upon Gardens/Vineyard/whatever. Or BM vs engines, one player ruins Gold while the other Rabbit-ifies a crucial engine card like the only Village.

But these are just theoretical considerations; even if the card turns out to be broken it will definitely lead to some interesting games.
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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2016, 02:29:58 pm »
0


Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+3 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
I think I like this a bit more, but I'm unsure.

Also, Rabbits is awesome.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2016, 02:30:41 pm »
0

The Rabbits mechanic has been suggested and discussed several times before. Not giving an opinion on it really, just letting you know. Welcome!
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GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2016, 03:28:13 pm »
0


Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+3 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
I think I like this a bit more, but I'm unsure.

Also, Rabbits is awesome.

Definitely. +4 cards at the start of your next turn is like playing 4 labs at the start of your next turn! Choosing the lab now would almost always be terrible in comparison. Event only +3 cards might be too strong; it's like playing 3 labs next turn. 1 lab now, or 2 labs next turn, might be closer in power. (Which would be +2 cards next turn).
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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2016, 03:43:13 pm »
0


Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+3 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
I think I like this a bit more, but I'm unsure.

Also, Rabbits is awesome.

Definitely. +4 cards at the start of your next turn is like playing 4 labs at the start of your next turn! Choosing the lab now would almost always be terrible in comparison. Event only +3 cards might be too strong; it's like playing 3 labs next turn. 1 lab now, or 2 labs next turn, might be closer in power. (Which would be +2 cards next turn).

+3 Cards next turn is what Haunted Woods has. Haunted Woods costs $5 and has an attack to boot. +2 Cards next turn is just awful; a card with such an effect would never be bought on most boards.

GendoIkari

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2016, 05:08:51 pm »
0


Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+3 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
I think I like this a bit more, but I'm unsure.

Also, Rabbits is awesome.

Definitely. +4 cards at the start of your next turn is like playing 4 labs at the start of your next turn! Choosing the lab now would almost always be terrible in comparison. Event only +3 cards might be too strong; it's like playing 3 labs next turn. 1 lab now, or 2 labs next turn, might be closer in power. (Which would be +2 cards next turn).

+3 Cards next turn is what Haunted Woods has. Haunted Woods costs $5 and has an attack to boot. +2 Cards next turn is just awful; a card with such an effect would never be bought on most boards.

Wharf says hi. But your point about Haunted Woods is fair.
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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2016, 05:37:25 pm »
+1

"Mulligan" is my favorite.
Quote
Mulligan -
If you played no cards this turn, discard your hand and +1 Card per card discarded after the first. Return to your action phase.
Personally, I'd add a once per turn, or an extra drawback. That much sifiting is insane. Also I'd chose a different name "Chase" or "Pursuit" seems kinda thematic as you rush through your deck to get that one hand.  So maybe:
Quote
Pursuit -
Once per turn: If you played no cards this turn, discard your hand and +4 Cards. Return to your Action phase.
This seems smoother. I like having the discarding be more like Minion, the extra complexity seems unnecessary. Also, the card was strong enough that only drawing 4 seems good. Thoughts?
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2016, 08:41:18 pm »
0

I'm not convinced of Rabbit. The fact I have to spend its own buy on itself if I want to keep my +Buy card makes it basically an Abandoned Mine. The "attack" is mostly a Super-Embargo that makes me gain a Ruins AND spend a buy. Ass it also never ends but even makes itself continue, it seems like it could really drag out a game.

It's the last part that is the biggest problem. If there was a self-trashing ability, it would be a great idea. Definitely think it can work.

In slogs, it's horrible though. :p

With the current wording, you can put it on the curse pile or Ruins pile to prevent people from gaining them and prevent the game from slowing down further.

kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2016, 02:52:29 am »
0

Added Bronze:

Quote
Bronze - Treasure, $2 (20 supply)

$1

+1 buy
---
When you gain this, you may trash a copper from your hand. If you do, you may gain a Bronze.

This is a useful treasure that upgrades your coppers. Good in games with no other +buys or no other way of trashing coppers.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 03:02:47 am by kru5h »
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tristan

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2016, 03:26:37 am »
+1


Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+3 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
I think I like this a bit more, but I'm unsure.

Also, Rabbits is awesome.

Definitely. +4 cards at the start of your next turn is like playing 4 labs at the start of your next turn! Choosing the lab now would almost always be terrible in comparison. Event only +3 cards might be too strong; it's like playing 3 labs next turn. 1 lab now, or 2 labs next turn, might be closer in power. (Which would be +2 cards next turn).
In general you want whatever you get now and not next turn but terminal draw is the only exception to that, i.e. Haunted Woods sans the attack part would be roughly equal in strength to Smithy.

Your analysis ignores what happens at the current turn. Inventor provides a choice is between a Lab now and 4 Cards at the start of your next turn at the cost of the currently played card being dead.
Now I still think that such a card is too good for 6 as it provides a choice between one of the best 5s, a Lab, and something which is similar in strength to Hunting Grounds, a 6.

Your "+2 Cards at the start of your next turn is a DOUBLE LAB !!! next turn and thus super great" would probably be too weak for 2 or in general too weak at any cost. Sure, it might be bought on some boards with decent village support and no drawing at all but the card is still roughly equal in strength to "+2 Cards".
It's like saying that "+2$ next turn" is a DOUBLE PEDDLER !!! next turn while ignoring that it is dead now and probably too weak to be bought at all (it is worse than Duchess which is rarely taken, even for free).
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 03:30:53 am by tristan »
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2016, 03:28:58 am »
0


Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+3 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
I think I like this a bit more, but I'm unsure.

Also, Rabbits is awesome.

Definitely. +4 cards at the start of your next turn is like playing 4 labs at the start of your next turn! Choosing the lab now would almost always be terrible in comparison. Event only +3 cards might be too strong; it's like playing 3 labs next turn. 1 lab now, or 2 labs next turn, might be closer in power. (Which would be +2 cards next turn).
In general you want whatever you get now and not next turn but terminal draw is the only exception to that, i.e. Haunted Woods sans the attack part would be roughly equal in strength to Smithy.

What you did is thus a gross misrepresentation. The choice is between a Lab now and 4 Cards at the start of your next turn at the cost of the currently played card being dead.
Now I still think that such a card is too good for 6 as it provides a choice between one of the best 5s, a Lab, and something which is similar in strength to Hunting Grounds, a 6.

Your "+2 Cards at the start of your next turn" would probably be too weak for 2 or in general too weak at any cost. Sure, it might be bought on some boards with decent village support and no drawing at all but the card is still roughly equal in strength to "+2 Cards".

I agree that it is quite powerful for a 6. I would sometimes pay 7 for it, but I don't quite like it at 7 all the time. It feels like a 6.5 card. I would instantly pick it over Hireling. I don't see it as stronger than Goons, though.

tristan

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2016, 03:38:36 am »
+1

You are of course totally right that 6$ Actions are powerhouses and not problematic if they are slightly overpowered. Goons and Hireling are definitely extremly strong for 6$ but probably a tad too weak for 7$.

I'd say it depends on the Kingdom whether you choose Inventor over Hireling. If you hit 6 early and the game will not be a rush Hireling is probably the better choice.
I'd try twitching the duration part to nerf Inventor slightly , e.g. "+3 Cards, +1 Buy" or something like that.

Bronze is not super exciting but seems balanced. You probably will not mass trash your Coppers as the opportunity cost (1 coin less during the current turn) is too high and the marginal benefit of extras Bronzes is decreasing (unless it is a Peddler game or something like that) ... but hey, it is still a cheap source of non-terminal extra buys.
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2016, 03:45:42 am »
0

You are of course totally right that 6$ Actions are powerhouses and not problematic if they are slightly overpowered. Goons and Hireling are definitely extremly strong for 6$ but probably a tad too weak for 7$.

I'd say it depends on the Kingdom whether you choose Inventor over Hireling. If you hit 6 early and the game will not be a rush Hireling is probably the better choice.
I'd try twitching the duration part to nerf Inventor slightly , e.g. "+3 Cards, +1 Buy" or something like that.

I've tried modifying it several times, but nothing clicks for me.

Ideally, it would be choose one:

+2 cards, +1 action now, or +2 cards each turn for your next two turns.

But then there's the tracking issue. Did I already take my two cards last turn or is this the third turn? Archive solves this by setting aside cards, but that would ruin the elegance of this card.

I tried giving other players something cool. "While this is in play, each other player..." but couldn't think of anything original. Each other player draws a card would just be a Council Room copy. I'd still like to do this, though.

+4 cards, discard a card could work, but seems unnatural. Its theme is gaining cards. Discarding one makes it feel against itself.

For now I'm content with it being a powerhouse card and will modify it if I ever think of something creative. I still want to include it in my cards list because the other two option-duration cards are micromanaging (2 actions vs 2 cards or 1 buy vs 1 more money) and I want an option-duration that says that the cards can be powerful too.

tristan

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2016, 03:51:52 am »
0

I like "+2 cards, +1 action now, or +2 cards each turn for your next two turns."
It is novel and there are some subtle differences between Archive's immediately setting apart and this version of Inventor.

You could also combine your option duration with market squire's semi-permanent durations. In this instance it could be something like "until another player does XYZ, +2 Cards at the start of your next turn."
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kru5h

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2016, 04:26:07 am »
0

How about this:

Quote
Inventor - Action Duration, $6

Choose one: +2 Cards, +1 Action now, or
+4 Cards at the beginning of your next turn.
---
While this is in play, you cannot buy an Inventor.

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2016, 04:51:09 pm »
0

So... what happens if I put my Rabbit on the Curse pile? Does that mean my opponent's Witch no longer gives me Curses? Personally, I think that's a feature, not a bug.
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Destry

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Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2016, 05:01:34 pm »
0

I see what you're trying to do with the variable cost on Rabbits - or if not in the Rabbits pile. Just cost it at and avoid the unneeded complexity.
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