Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15]  All

Author Topic: Kru5h's card ideas  (Read 25496 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LibraryAdventurer

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1200
  • Shuffle iT Username: LibraryAdventurer
  • Respect: +931
    • View Profile
Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #350 on: August 23, 2018, 10:34:33 pm »
+2

I like this one. On first look, I think it's one of the best fan-made throne room variants I've seen.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7463
  • Respect: +8280
    • View Profile
Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #351 on: August 24, 2018, 01:41:49 am »
+1

You might have missed that the cards says "with a combined cost of UP TO 8" which is why there are no rule ambiguities (you could construct a hypertheoretical case in which the Curses and Coppers are out and the card becomes unclear but it is practically irrelevant; I never played a game of Dominion in which the Copper pile was even nearing depletion). So if the first card you gain cost 5 the second one can cost up to 3.

Ruins are obviously possible as both cost individually up to 5 and together up to 8.

I like the card, it is probably one of the strongest engine enablers. If the Kingdom allows for engine play there have to be good 4s respectively goods 5s and 2s/3s. In a money Kingdom it will probably suck but Duchy+Silver might be a thing.

No, I specified that I was talking about a situation when there are no cards costing or less. Yes, it's super rare; but that just means that it's a rules ambiguity that will practically never happen, instead of a rules ambiguity that will rarely happen. It's still the exact same rules ambiguity.

The reason Ruins is ambiguous is because to gain 2 of them means you would have to first gain one card, then gain the second card. It is not clear from "gain 2 cards" if that's how it would work; as opposed to choosing 2 cards and gaining them both.

Edit before posting: Found this super old thread where I think Donald actually answers that question: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5990.msg161157#msg161157

Basically, as with Embargo, "gain 2 cards" implies 2 separate gain events that should happen one after the other. So yes, you should indeed be able to gain 2 separate Ruins (or Knights, if you have cost reduction). But that still has the other uncertainty... do you have to consider your second gain's cost when choosing the first gain? Can you choose a card for your first gain if everything in the Supply costs or more? If not, you need to "look ahead" to actually make both choices together before gaining either one.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +374
    • View Profile
Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #352 on: August 24, 2018, 07:48:59 am »
0

You might have missed that the cards says "with a combined cost of UP TO 8" which is why there are no rule ambiguities (you could construct a hypertheoretical case in which the Curses and Coppers are out and the card becomes unclear but it is practically irrelevant; I never played a game of Dominion in which the Copper pile was even nearing depletion). So if the first card you gain cost 5 the second one can cost up to 3.

Ruins are obviously possible as both cost individually up to 5 and together up to 8.

I like the card, it is probably one of the strongest engine enablers. If the Kingdom allows for engine play there have to be good 4s respectively goods 5s and 2s/3s. In a money Kingdom it will probably suck but Duchy+Silver might be a thing.

No, I specified that I was talking about a situation when there are no cards costing or less. Yes, it's super rare; but that just means that it's a rules ambiguity that will practically never happen, instead of a rules ambiguity that will rarely happen. It's still the exact same rules ambiguity.
Coppers could run out in a Gardens/Beggar game and Silver does rarely run out in Feodum games but both never ever run out together. So if what you worry about practically never happens it is irrelevant (unless you wanna stare at a Dominion card like at a piece in a museum instead of playing with it). If Dominion should ever feature cards with cost increase, the inverse of something like Bridge, or if somebody uses fan cards with this idea as well as this fan card, this could become an issue though.
And if that worrisome case should occur in the far future, in a galaxay far away, the few scattered folks who actually play with this card and have no access to FAQs could just do what every boardgamer does if rule ambiguities occur in the games they play: talk and come up with a rule of how to handle that particular case. Something simply and intuitive like, as gaining occurs sequentially, you then gain no second card
If a game tells you to do X but you cannot do X the only options are don't do what you cannot do or do what a computer does and freeze. Most folks are interested in the game progressing so I declare the second option to be ludicrous.

In this galaxy I'd rather worry about how strong this card is and perhaps playtest it alongside Artisan.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4847
  • Respect: +5161
    • View Profile
Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #353 on: August 24, 2018, 08:26:21 am »
0

"Name two differently named cards in the supply each costing up to 5 with a combined cost of up to 8. If you do, gain both in either order."

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4847
  • Respect: +5161
    • View Profile
Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #354 on: August 24, 2018, 08:35:18 am »
0

I changed Scepter. Not sure if it's overpowered now.


New Hotness on left<<  >>Old version on right.

I actually like the old one better, although perhaps it could really be "play it once, gain a copy" vs "play it twice".

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7463
  • Respect: +8280
    • View Profile
Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #355 on: August 24, 2018, 09:57:34 am »
+1

So if what you worry about practically never happens it is irrelevant

Part of this is probably the programmer in me. In programming, it's literally not an option to just ignore a situation because it won't ever happen. The compiler will fail with a message "not all code paths return a value" if I don't include some "catch all" code path.

I just think that for a card to be solid in wording, it needs to make sense given all logically possible Dominion game states; not only the ones that are common to actually see.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4847
  • Respect: +5161
    • View Profile
Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #356 on: August 24, 2018, 11:06:18 am »
+1

So if what you worry about practically never happens it is irrelevant

Part of this is probably the programmer in me. In programming, it's literally not an option to just ignore a situation because it won't ever happen. The compiler will fail with a message "not all code paths return a value" if I don't include some "catch all" code path.

I just think that for a card to be solid in wording, it needs to make sense given all logically possible Dominion game states; not only the ones that are common to actually see.

I agree. There's a difference between a rare game state making a card "broken" and a rare game state leading to undefined rules. Neither is desirable, but where the first is just an exceptional game outcome, the second actually breaks the game. Yes, you can house rule games if the real rules suck. The thing to do here is not to rely on other people fixing your sucky rules for you.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7463
  • Respect: +8280
    • View Profile
Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #357 on: August 24, 2018, 12:04:20 pm »
+1

So if what you worry about practically never happens it is irrelevant

Part of this is probably the programmer in me. In programming, it's literally not an option to just ignore a situation because it won't ever happen. The compiler will fail with a message "not all code paths return a value" if I don't include some "catch all" code path.

I just think that for a card to be solid in wording, it needs to make sense given all logically possible Dominion game states; not only the ones that are common to actually see.

I agree. There's a difference between a rare game state making a card "broken" and a rare game state leading to undefined rules. Neither is desirable, but where the first is just an exceptional game outcome, the second actually breaks the game. Yes, you can house rule games if the real rules suck. The thing to do here is not to rely on other people fixing your sucky rules for you.

Yeah. Like if the card somehow allowed you to instantly gain the entire Province pile in the rare situation that there are no cards costing or less, I'd be ok with that. Some people might complain "in this rare situation, the card is way overpowered and broken", but in that rare situation, the game is over at the end of that same turn no matter what.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

kru5h

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 235
  • Respect: +114
    • View Profile
Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #358 on: August 24, 2018, 11:04:25 pm »
+2

I guess I will just change Kiln to this:


A lot more boring, but workable.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7463
  • Respect: +8280
    • View Profile
Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #359 on: August 24, 2018, 11:16:50 pm »
0

I guess I will just change Kiln to this:


A lot more boring, but workable.

I think this is neat. It does require a second of thought to overcome the initial confusion of "but it cost , so how can it cost ?".. but maybe that's just me.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +374
    • View Profile
Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #360 on: August 27, 2018, 02:05:54 pm »
+1

So if what you worry about practically never happens it is irrelevant

Part of this is probably the programmer in me. In programming, it's literally not an option to just ignore a situation because it won't ever happen. The compiler will fail with a message "not all code paths return a value" if I don't include some "catch all" code path.

I just think that for a card to be solid in wording, it needs to make sense given all logically possible Dominion game states; not only the ones that are common to actually see.
Professionial biases are totally understandable and as there also exists a digital version of Dominion it makes some sense to make rules watertight.
But a more pragmatic perspective for a fan card still in progress that will at best be printed by a few folks is to not care about a case which nobody (if anybody has ever played a game in which the Copper and Silver piles have been emptied, please speak up) has ever witnessed in a game of Dominion. Please note that I am not against good and precise wording and caring about edge cases that can occur. But Coppers and Silvers being out isn't something that happens in an actual game.

Balance issues are in my opinion more important for a card in flux and as kru5h has decided to change the card those rule musings are moot now.


I guess I will just change Kiln to this:


A lot more boring, but workable.
Such a nerf (I guess so; then again if there is nothing decent below $4 the previous version would have implied that you have to "junk" yourself with Silver when you want to gain a $5) is probably necessary. Two cheap cards is still a pretty decent option and probably as good or even better than Artisan's hand-gaining.
Logged

kru5h

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 235
  • Respect: +114
    • View Profile
Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #361 on: October 21, 2018, 05:33:33 pm »
0

This card is probably too powerful and annoying to keep track of if you have several in play.

Cell


Also, I need to rename Scepter since there's an official card with that name now.

kru5h

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 235
  • Respect: +114
    • View Profile
Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« Reply #362 on: December 23, 2018, 01:34:51 am »
+2

No name, Project
At the start of Clean-up each turn, you may put a card from your hand onto your deck.

No name, Project
Once per turn, you may gain a Copper to your hand.

No name, Project
When another player plays an Attack, you may reveal an Attack card from your hand to be unaffected.

No name, Project
Whenever you play an Attack, you may get +1 Action. If you do, other players are unaffected by it.
Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15]  All
 

Page created in 0.143 seconds with 21 queries.