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Author Topic: Conquest vs provinces  (Read 813 times)

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Limetime

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Conquest vs provinces
« on: October 14, 2016, 11:47:05 pm »
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How much money and buys do you have to have for conquest to be worth more points than provinces?
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pacovf

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Re: Conquest vs provinces
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2016, 01:21:39 am »
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That's never happening. Conquest gives you 1 VP per 3$, Province gives you 1 VP per 1.33$.

Well, unless you mean specific values, rather than a turning point. In which case, Conquest is better for 6$, 7$, or 15$, and that's it, and in all those cases, buying Duchies gives more points than Conquest.

It's trickier with Delve, because then, while Conquest + Delve is still more expensive than Provinces if you only want tthe points, it doesn't require extra buys.
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ephesos

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Re: Conquest vs provinces
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2016, 04:09:58 am »
+1

Each time you buy Conquest for $6, you gain 2 Silvers, and then gain X VP where X is how many Silvers you've gained so far this turn.
In other words, if you have $6Y and Y buys, then you'll get 2+4+...+2Y points, which by a handy summation formula is Y(Y+1)

For the same amount of money, you could buy ~(3/4)Y Provinces, for ~(9/2)Y points.
So we have Y(Y+1) > (9/2)Y, or Y^2>(7/2)Y, Y>7/2.

So you need $24 and 4 buys for Conquest to be worth 20 points, while 3 Provinces are worth 18 points.

Now, that's the simple approach. Factor in that maybe you could buy a Silver first if you had say $21, and also Duchies/Estates with odd amounts, and things get messier. I think at that point, I'd just code something to do it, and never use the results.


Another thing is if you had gained a Silver first(through Rocks or Trader).
Then, if you've gained Z Silvers this turn, you get Y(Y+1)+YZ points, and Y^2>(7/2-Z)Y, Y>7/2-Z
So if you've gained a single Silver this turn, it would be better at $18 or so, a second would make it worth at $12, and a third or fourth and you may as well just buy Conquest instead.

Dang, now I really want to pull off a Trader Conquest combo.....
« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 04:17:52 am by ephesos »
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Chris is me

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Re: Conquest vs provinces
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2016, 09:49:35 am »
+1

That's never happening. Conquest gives you 1 VP per 3$, Province gives you 1 VP per 1.33$.

Well, unless you mean specific values, rather than a turning point. In which case, Conquest is better for 6$, 7$, or 15$, and that's it, and in all those cases, buying Duchies gives more points than Conquest.

It's trickier with Delve, because then, while Conquest + Delve is still more expensive than Provinces if you only want tthe points, it doesn't require extra buys.

I think you're ignoring that you can buy Conquest more than once a turn.
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Re: Conquest vs provinces
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2016, 10:33:44 am »
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Conquest seems strongest with treasure hunter.

pacovf

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Re: Conquest vs provinces
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2016, 05:32:38 pm »
+1

That's never happening. Conquest gives you 1 VP per 3$, Province gives you 1 VP per 1.33$.

Well, unless you mean specific values, rather than a turning point. In which case, Conquest is better for 6$, 7$, or 15$, and that's it, and in all those cases, buying Duchies gives more points than Conquest.

It's trickier with Delve, because then, while Conquest + Delve is still more expensive than Provinces if you only want tthe points, it doesn't require extra buys.

I think you're ignoring that you can buy Conquest more than once a turn.

Yes! I needed an excuse to feel stupid today, see?
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Conquest vs provinces
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2016, 08:21:50 pm »
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Conquest seems strongest with treasure hunter.
I thought it would be fun to save up a crap load of coin tokens then overpay gazillion for Masterpiece, then buy Conquest.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Conquest vs provinces
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2016, 10:12:32 am »
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Conquest seems strongest with treasure hunter.
I thought it would be fun to save up a crap load of coin tokens then overpay gazillion for Masterpiece, then buy Conquest.

Silvers are limited, so you wouldn't get more than 40 points that way. (80 if using the optional combine Intrigue treasures rule).
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faust

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Re: Conquest vs provinces
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2016, 11:31:36 am »
+2

Conquest seems strongest with treasure hunter.
I thought it would be fun to save up a crap load of coin tokens then overpay gazillion for Masterpiece, then buy Conquest.

Silvers are limited, so you wouldn't get more than 40 points that way. (80 if using the optional combine Intrigue treasures rule).

Step 1: Buy Masterpiece, overpay $38.
Step 2: Buy Conquest.
Step 3: Buy Villa.
Step 4: Return all your Silvers using Ambassador.
Step 5: Return to Step 1.

The only question is, how often can you manage to do this in a single turn? (Probably has no upper bound)
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Conquest vs provinces
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2016, 01:59:14 pm »
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Conquest seems strongest with treasure hunter.
I thought it would be fun to save up a crap load of coin tokens then overpay gazillion for Masterpiece, then buy Conquest.

Silvers are limited, so you wouldn't get more than 40 points that way. (80 if using the optional combine Intrigue treasures rule).
Yeah, but you can buy conquest twice, to get 80 points.
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ephesos

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Re: Conquest vs provinces
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2016, 02:03:24 pm »
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Step 1: Buy Masterpiece, overpay $38.
Step 2: Buy Conquest.
Step 3: Buy Villa.
Step 4: Return all your Silvers using Ambassador.
Step 5: Return to Step 1.

The only question is, how often can you manage to do this in a single turn? (Probably has no upper bound)

There's easier ways to get infinite lots of VP from Conquest than that. You only have to gain the Silvers, you don't have to buy them. So you can use Graverobber/Rogue instead of Ambassador, and you don't have to worry about your opponent soaking up all your Silvers and you having to hunt them down with attacks.


However, there is a ~7 Kingdom card infinite loop that lets you play an Action costing up to 5 an arbitrary amount of times with Overlord. So if your remaining cards include Masterpiece, Ambassador, and Villa(and some kind of trashing attack to get back the Silvers), I think you could make the drawing work out somehow.


Mr. Ephesos gave me another puzzle. Maybe too easy.
Q. Earn 1 million coins from a SINGLE Copper.
A.
Quote
Kingdom: Overlord, Peasant, Raze, Coppersmith, Procession, Band of Misfits, Crown, Graverobber, Mandarin
(Italic cards can be in the Black Market deck)
Events: None

Setup: Put +1 Card token on Overlord, trash Graverobber and Mandarin
Deck: 5 Overlord, Band of Misfits, Graverobber, Copper

play Overlord as Crown
-- play Overload as Crown
---- play Overload as Crown
------ play Overload as Crown
-------- play Band of Misfits as Raze (trash itself)
-------- play Band of Misfits as Procession
---------- play Graverobber (gain Graverobber)
---------- play Graverobber (gain Mandarin)
------ play Overload as Raze (trash Mandarin, put Graverobber into your hand)
---- play Overload as Coppersmith
-- play Overload as Procession
---- play Graverobber (gain Graverobber)
---- play Graverobber (gain BoM)

repeat this 1 million times
play Copper

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navical

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Re: Conquest vs provinces
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2016, 03:59:56 pm »
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Just have a Watchtower in hand, play Overlord in the above loop as Graverobber/Rogue and trash the Silver gained from the trash immediately.
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ephesos

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Re: Conquest vs provinces
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2016, 11:57:54 pm »
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Just have a Watchtower in hand, play Overlord in the above loop as Graverobber/Rogue and trash the Silver gained from the trash immediately.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was saying in the first sentence; getting infinite Silver gains is easy. I was really looking to see if the exact play of overbuy Masterpiece for $38 was repeatable.
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