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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition  (Read 35864 times)

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Limetime

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #100 on: October 20, 2016, 02:17:19 pm »
+1

Theif below scout is just wrong.

I disagree. Scout hurts your deck, thief hurts your deck AND helps your opponent
Theif is rarely good. Scout is never good.
On average if scout fell into your deck you would be more happy than if theif did but ambassador would rather send curses.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #101 on: October 20, 2016, 02:33:25 pm »
+3

Theif below scout is just wrong.

I disagree. Scout hurts your deck, thief hurts your deck AND helps your opponent

You can't compare bad cards as though you always had them in your deck, because most of the time you don't. Instead, you should consider how good they are in your deck in the rare situation where you actually want the card, and how often you have that situation. Thief wins on both of those.
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schadd

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #102 on: October 20, 2016, 02:52:38 pm »
0

You can't compare bad cards as though you always had them in your deck, because most of the time you don't. Instead, you should consider how good they are in your deck in the rare situation where you actually want the card, and how often you have that situation. Thief wins on both of those.
well, scout loses out on the latter condition because of how bad it is in the former condition. in theory, you want the effect of 'get victory cards from your deck' very often, but scout happens to be very bad at doing that, more so than thief is at stealing treasures. i would estimate that there are more times than we think wherein someone would rather have a scout than the next best thing at $4, but those times are so rare and hard to evaluate that the card just doesn't get bought, and rightfully so; you will probably not improve as a player very much even if you know every time you would want a scout. however, thief is relevant much less often; nowadays there aren't very many games where your opponent has a lot of treasures and you also want them, and also playing thief is better than playing a different action and just buying the treasures. but, in those games, thief has a lot of bang for its buck.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #103 on: October 20, 2016, 03:01:08 pm »
+1

Theif below scout is just wrong.

I disagree. Scout hurts your deck, thief hurts your deck AND helps your opponent

You can't compare bad cards as though you always had them in your deck, because most of the time you don't. Instead, you should consider how good they are in your deck in the rare situation where you actually want the card, and how often you have that situation. Thief wins on both of those.

I think while Thief's effect is more important when you do want it, Scout is actually a card I want in my deck more often than Thief, enough that I feel Scout is the marginally better card.

I don't play enough Fool's Gold / Thief games, but I play plenty of Apothecary, Scrying Pool, Herald, or Mystic games where I can afford to gain a nonterminal 4.

But I'm really not concerned about how perfect the very bottom is.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #104 on: October 20, 2016, 03:31:27 pm »
0

I don't play enough Fool's Gold / Thief games, but I play plenty of Apothecary, Scrying Pool, Herald, or Mystic games where I can afford to gain a nonterminal 4.

You shouldn't buy Scout just because Apothecary, Scrying Pool, Herald or Mystic is in the game and you can afford to gain a nonterminal 4. You need to be able to utilize the fact that it's a non-terminal Action that costs $4 and is named Scout somehow, you need to be able to utilize the deck reordering somehow, you need to be able to utilize the Victory card drawing somehow and you need to be able to gain it for entirely free (i.e. the only other alternative would be nothing at all), and then it's just a super little bit better than nothing. If the only thing it's doing for your deck is helping your Mystics, you should trash any Scouts that you have gotten somehow.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #105 on: October 20, 2016, 05:01:21 pm »
0

Procession may be the best case for scout.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #106 on: October 24, 2016, 01:08:31 am »
0

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Seprix

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #107 on: October 26, 2016, 10:44:17 am »
0

Just throw Scout and Thief on the bottom, after Adventurer. Qvist has convinced me that Adventurer is just the worst card in all of Dominion. After that, Scout, and then Thief, and then on and on and on.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #108 on: October 26, 2016, 10:59:02 am »
0

My account seems to be broken
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #109 on: October 27, 2016, 06:28:15 am »
+2

I was doing art rankings for three weeks and finally this is finished! I will post top-20 and bottom-20 with some comments:

1.) Page
2.) Advance   
3.) Warrior 
Top-3 is girls with swords. Funny. Page is just so very beautiful! the art and everything. Same is Warrior. Advance is a perfect choice of colors, the white dress is spectacular here.
4.) Necropolis
5.) Overgrown Estate
Somehow those two ended close. I love Shelters art, Hovel's not here just because I don't really like the colors there. But Necropolis' lines and the fire that seems alive. But OE's monumentality and nice interaction with Base Set Estate card. I love it.
6.) Advisor - Nothing to say really, cool card with cool idea and cool interaction between art and what it does.
7.) Royal Carriage - Yeah, really, at first you don't see what's going on on this card but then you realise it's rather cool. I love this purple, I don't think any other card has this purple.
8.) Crown - Hardest contester. I love it, but it was hard to compare this card to others. In the end I'm happy with its 8th place.
9.) Sauna/Avanto - At first I thought it will win. Then I understood that it's not enough but still, the card is awesome!
10.) Save - I love colors on this card.
11.) Jester - Nothing to say. I think Jester will end in top-20.
12.) Caravan - If you look at this card more and more, you see more and more details. The horizon, sea out there, everything is on its place.
13.) Wedding - Nice theme, cool colors.
14.) Sprawling Castle - best castle ever. This dark orange is awesome, the very castle seems endless.
15.) Wall - Looks like photo actually, also GoT fans, hi!
16.) Followers - Colors and people are drawn with good detailing. Love this card.
17.) Avanto - Outtake from my loving Sauna/Avanto randomizer. I'm actually surprised Sauna isn't in top-20.
18.) Distant Lands - Many details and I really want to go there.
19.) Masquerade - Always think about how good the art is when I play with it.
20.) Labyrinth - I like the idea that it didn't have the exit in the beginning but now it has.

Here's to the bottom-20!

374.) Plan - Face is meh.
375.) Loan - I don't like this style and the hands are not even look like hands.
376.) Teacher - I don't like the whole Peasant line (Maybe soldier is more or less okay)
377.) Wolf Den - When I first saw it in the previews I thought smb is kidding me. The head of one of the wolves is living separately from the body.
378.) Borrow - Harem-style.
379.) Fugitive - See Teacher.
380.) Navigator - We all know about the art of this guy.
381.) Shanty Town - See Navigator
382.) Harem - It's not the last one! Compared to others it has nice colors at least.
383.) Scout - When I started playing Dominion I thought there's a candlestick in front of him. Then I realised it's a leg.
384.) Pawn - The pose, the face. He's agonizing and dying and walks as a crab.
385.) Salvager - Face is disgusting. He's trying not to die there where he is and also he had quite a lot of booze before swimming.
386.) Gladiator - Just look at it.
387.) Pearl Diver - What does his face mean? Bad one.
388.) Masterpiece - It's not really Masterpiece, look at it. Also yellow here is awful.
389.) Butcher - I just don't like this king of art. Baker is okay-ish, but Butcher is not.
390.) Disciple - See Teacher.
391.) Mandarin - he's tortured and his body turned into snakes.
392.) Peasant - see Teacher. Also, the worst one from the line. I hate backgroung colors, they look like badly-painted walls.
393.) Fortune - see Gladiator.
394.) Candlestick Maker - worst art ever (even worse than Fortune!).
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #110 on: October 28, 2016, 03:47:37 pm »
0

I notice Events are in the 'All Kingdom cards' list.  But there's also the 'Events' list.  Why both?  Can I just do the Events in their own cost buckets, then in the 'All Kingdom cards'?  Cus then couldn't the 'Events' list be derived from those?

Landmarks are not in 'All Kingdom cards', so I do see the need for the 'Landmarks' list.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #111 on: October 28, 2016, 04:22:39 pm »
0

I notice Events are in the 'All Kingdom cards' list.  But there's also the 'Events' list.  Why both?  Can I just do the Events in their own cost buckets, then in the 'All Kingdom cards'?  Cus then couldn't the 'Events' list be derived from those?

Because you can do the Event bucket first.  Easier.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #112 on: November 08, 2016, 12:16:25 pm »
0

Is there any means to reset my password?  I appear to have utterly forgotten which throwaway password I used.

I, also.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #113 on: November 14, 2016, 04:27:44 am »
+4

Friendly reminder: This is the last week. So, be sure to finish your lists in the next couple of days and if you have already finished, double check that you have marked your list as finished (and also the correct one) so that it can be counted.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #114 on: November 16, 2016, 05:27:56 am »
+2

I finally managed to finish the full list by duels.

Code: [Select]
1.) Donate   [X]
2.) Chapel   [X]
3.) Mountebank   [X]
4.) Cultist   [X]
5.) Ambassador   [X]
6.) Masquerade   [X]
7.) Wharf   [X]
8.) Page   [X]
9.) Scrying Pool   [X]
10.) Peasant   [X]
11.) Ferry   [X]
12.) Goons   [X]
13.) King's Court   [X]
14.) Urchin   [X]
15.) Alms   [X]
16.) Rebuild   [X]
17.) Junk Dealer   [X]
18.) Lost City   [X]
19.) Knights   [X]
20.) Tournament   [X]
21.) Inheritance   [X]
22.) Steward   [X]
23.) Lost Arts   [X]
24.) Remake   [X]
25.) Black Market   [X]
26.) Torturer   [X]
27.) Amulet   [X]
28.) Witch   [X]
29.) Vineyard   [X]
30.) Throne Room   [X]
31.) Counterfeit   [X]
32.) Ironmonger   [X]
33.) Fortune   [X]
34.) Menagerie   [X]
35.) Legionary   [X]
36.) Governor   [X]
37.) Watchtower   [X]
38.) Familiar   [X]
39.) Grand Market   [X]
40.) Minion   [X]
41.) Fishing Village   [X]
42.) City Quarter   [X]
43.) Groundskeeper   [X]
44.) Wandering Minstrel   [X]
45.) Altar   [X]
46.) Swindler   [X]
47.) Ghost Ship   [X]
48.) Magpie   [X]
49.) Butcher   [X]
50.) Young Witch   [X]
51.) Raze   [X]
52.) Doctor   [X]
53.) Bridge Troll   [X]
54.) Worker's Village   [X]
55.) Herald   [X]
56.) Hunting Party   [X]
57.) Count   [X]
58.) Tactician   [X]
59.) Overlord   [X]
60.) Bridge   [X]
61.) Horn of Plenty   [X]
62.) Encampment   [X]
63.) Spice Merchant   [X]
64.) Conspirator   [X]
65.) Stonemason   [X]
66.) Highway   [X]
67.) Wishing Well   [X]
68.) Bishop   [X]
69.) Upgrade   [X]
70.) Alchemist   [X]
71.) Sea Hag   [X]
72.) Quarry   [X]
73.) Apothecary   [X]
74.) Wild Hunt   [X]
75.) Forager   [X]
76.) Envoy   [X]
77.) Haggler   [X]
78.) Lighthouse   [X]
79.) Swamp Hag   [X]
80.) Distant Lands   [X]
81.) Marauder   [X]
82.) Hunting Grounds   [X]
83.) Hermit   [X]
84.) Border Village   [X]
85.) Smithy   [X]
86.) Treasure Trove   [X]
87.) Jack of all Trades   [X]
88.) Ironworks   [X]
89.) Apprentice   [X]
90.) Militia   [X]
91.) Duke   [X]
92.) Smugglers   [X]
93.) Hoard   [X]
94.) Villa   [X]
95.) Laboratory   [X]
96.) Monument   [X]
97.) Village   [X]
98.) Outpost   [X]
99.) Expedition   [X]
100.) Borrow   [X]
101.) Fool's Gold   [X]
102.) Hireling   [X]
103.) Gear   [X]
104.) Pathfinding   [X]
105.) Soothsayer   [X]
106.) Jester   [X]
107.) Ill-Gotten Gains   [X]
108.) Royal Carriage   [X]
109.) Fairgrounds   [X]
110.) Mission   [X]
111.) Castles   [X]
112.) Trade   [X]
113.) Save   [X]
114.) Lookout   [X]
115.) Crown   [X]
116.) Relic   [X]
117.) Scheme   [X]
118.) Procession   [X]
119.) Royal Blacksmith   [X]
120.) Dominate   [X]
121.) Possession   [X]
122.) Salvager   [X]
123.) Storyteller   [X]
124.) Festival   [X]
125.) Candlestick Maker   [X]
126.) University   [X]
127.) Temple   [X]
128.) Dungeon   [X]
129.) Gardens   [X]
130.) Wedding   [X]
131.) Bandit Camp   [X]
132.) Peddler   [X]
133.) Fortress   [X]
134.) Margrave   [X]
135.) Cutpurse   [X]
136.) Delve   [X]
137.) Ranger   [X]
138.) Triumph   [X]
139.) Port   [X]
140.) Oracle   [X]
141.) Coin of the Realm   [X]
142.) Armory   [X]
143.) Scouting Party   [X]
144.) Summon   [X]
145.) Nobles   [X]
146.) Guide   [X]
147.) Mining Village   [X]
148.) Caravan   [X]
149.) Hamlet   [X]
150.) Annex   [X]
151.) Haunted Woods   [X]
152.) Market Square   [X]
153.) Plunder   [X]
154.) Ball   [X]
155.) Warehouse   [X]
156.) Poor House   [X]
157.) Miser   [X]
158.) Rabble   [X]
159.) Artificer   [X]
160.) Baron   [X]
161.) Scavenger   [X]
162.) Bustling Village   [X]
163.) Baker   [X]
164.) Ritual   [X]
165.) Forge   [X]
166.) Catacombs   [X]
167.) Vault   [X]
168.) Walled Village   [X]
169.) Council Room   [X]
170.) Plaza   [X]
171.) Salt the Earth   [X]
172.) Pilgrimage   [X]
173.) Bonfire   [X]
174.) Training   [X]
175.) Archive   [X]
176.) Engineer   [X]
177.) Workshop   [X]
178.) Capital   [X]
179.) Forum   [X]
180.) Settlers   [X]
181.) Catapult   [X]
182.) Loan   [X]
183.) City   [X]
184.) Trading Post   [X]
185.) Merchant Guild   [X]
186.) Stables   [X]
187.) Duplicate   [X]
188.) Sacrifice   [X]
189.) Bank   [X]
190.) Shanty Town   [X]
191.) Travelling Fair   [X]
192.) Seaway   [X]
193.) Farming Village   [X]
194.) Pawn   [X]
195.) Remodel   [X]
196.) Band of Misfits   [X]
197.) Windfall   [X]
198.) Advance   [X]
199.) Moneylender   [X]
200.) Squire   [X]
201.) Ratcatcher   [X]
202.) Moat   [X]
203.) Cartographer   [X]
204.) Embassy   [X]
205.) Inn   [X]
206.) Bazaar   [X]
207.) Crossroads   [X]
208.) Journeyman   [X]
209.) Library   [X]
210.) Tunnel   [X]
211.) Courtyard   [X]
212.) Horse Traders   [X]
213.) Venture   [X]
214.) Transmogrify   [X]
215.) Develop   [X]
216.) Masterpiece   [X]
217.) Market   [X]
218.) Quest   [X]
219.) Nomad Camp   [X]
220.) Expand   [X]
221.) Giant   [X]
222.) Silk Road   [X]
223.) Native Village   [X]
224.) Mystic   [X]
225.) Gladiator   [X]
226.) Golem   [X]
227.) Chariot Race   [X]
228.) Emporium   [X]
229.) Conquest   [X]
230.) Cellar   [X]
231.) Trade Route   [X]
232.) Graverobber   [X]
233.) Prince   [X]
234.) Plan   [X]
235.) Wine Merchant   [X]
236.) Treasury   [X]
237.) Vagrant   [X]
238.) Advisor   [X]
239.) Mint   [X]
240.) Charm   [X]
241.) Enchantress   [X]
242.) Patrician   [X]
243.) Oasis   [X]
244.) Contraband   [X]
245.) Island   [X]
246.) Harem   [X]
247.) Farmland   [X]
248.) Farmers' Market   [X]
249.) Messenger   [X]
250.) Storeroom   [X]
251.) Rogue   [X]
252.) Woodcutter   [X]
253.) Treasure Map   [X]
254.) Noble Brigand   [X]
255.) Pillage   [X]
256.) Death Cart   [X]
257.) Tax   [X]
258.) Mine   [X]
259.) Merchant Ship   [X]
260.) Haven   [X]
261.) Banquet   [X]
262.) Herbalist   [X]
263.) Saboteur   [X]
264.) Trader   [X]
265.) Rats   [X]
266.) Feodum   [X]
267.) Caravan Guard   [X]
268.) Mandarin   [X]
269.) Explorer   [X]
270.) Raid   [X]
271.) Royal Seal   [X]
272.) Tribute   [X]
273.) Beggar   [X]
274.) Embargo   [X]
275.) Talisman   [X]
276.) Great Hall   [X]
277.) Pirate Ship   [X]
278.) Philosopher's Stone   [X]
279.) Taxman   [X]
280.) Bureaucrat   [X]
281.) Counting House   [X]
282.) Spy   [X]
283.) Fortune Teller   [X]
284.) Chancellor   [X]
285.) Stash   [X]
286.) Sage   [X]
287.) Navigator   [X]
288.) Cache   [X]
289.) Thief   [X]
290.) Coppersmith   [X]
291.) Feast   [X]
292.) Duchess   [X]
293.) Harvest   [X]
294.) Pearl Diver   [X]
295.) Rocks   [X]
296.) Secret Chamber   [X]
297.) Scout   [X]
298.) Transmute   [X]
299.) Adventurer   [X]

Notable placements:
8. Page vs 10. Peasant - I like Peasant more, but Page is just a strategy unto itself while Peasant requires some engine environment.
11. Ferry - it is that good.
15. Alms - this one was quite hard to rank, but it has a huge impact on the opening and is really useful later on.
18. Lost City - I feel like this card is still underrated by a lot of players who are afraid of giving their opponent an extra card.
35. Legionary - the highest-ranked Empires card. (i.e. non-Event)
36. Governor - it's really not as strong as some people think.
87. Jack Of All Trades - I feel like this is lower than the consenus. While it's often useful, it's never that amazing because ou rarely want everything it does.
85. Smithy and 97. Village - both make the top third of cards, which goes to show that the simple cheap effect is often all you need, and also shows my increased appreciation of draw and Villages.
111. Castles - they did end up pretty high. This may be subject to change, but I think ignoring Castles could sometimes be as bad as ignoring Knights.
150. Annex - apprently the definition of an average card-shaped thing.
176. Engineer vs 177. Workshop - the new card gets a tiny advantage.
201. Ratcatcher - it's one of the worst trashers out there, because of its inherent slowness and being limited to your starting hand.
252. Woodcutter - the best of the removed cards.
297. Scout vs 298. Transmute vs 299. Adventurer - Scout gets a bit of an edge due to stuff like Inheritance and various Estate-flooders in Empires.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

drsteelhammer

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #115 on: November 16, 2016, 07:26:07 am »
0

I'm using the rating mode, and when I'm done with a list and switch to another, the old lists get completely jumbled up :( Atleast when there is an overlap(ranking events seperately and in their lists). How can I avoid this?
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faust

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #116 on: November 16, 2016, 07:46:41 am »
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I just realized there's no way to rank Castles :(
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #117 on: November 16, 2016, 08:35:43 am »
0

I'm using the rating mode, and when I'm done with a list and switch to another, the old lists get completely jumbled up :( Atleast when there is an overlap(ranking events seperately and in their lists). How can I avoid this?

Let's talk on discord.

I just realized there's no way to rank Castles :(

Castles is in the $6+ list ... or wait you mean against each other? Was this requested? Sorry...

faust

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #118 on: November 16, 2016, 09:33:12 am »
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Probably wasn't requested until now ;)

I was just clicking through the Knights and thought "I could do this for Castles too".

But we probably all need more experience there anyway before we can make meaningful statements.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Limetime

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #119 on: November 16, 2016, 11:34:25 am »
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Page is bm by itself.
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #120 on: November 16, 2016, 11:41:44 am »
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I intend to submit a full ranking of all the cards along with the individual cost ranking. I'm worried that the full card list ranking I might do on the website will get jumbled up if I try to rank cards by cost afterwards. Is it sufficient to just do a full ranking on the website (and knights/prizes/whatever)?
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werothegreat

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #121 on: November 16, 2016, 11:57:28 am »
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Finally finished the art ranking.  Just the favorite ranking left.
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #122 on: November 16, 2016, 07:32:30 pm »
+1

I intend to submit a full ranking of all the cards along with the individual cost ranking. I'm worried that the full card list ranking I might do on the website will get jumbled up if I try to rank cards by cost afterwards. Is it sufficient to just do a full ranking on the website (and knights/prizes/whatever)?

If you do the full ranking there's no need to do the ones for individual costs, they are generated automatically.

markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #123 on: November 16, 2016, 09:06:22 pm »
0

I intend to submit a full ranking of all the cards along with the individual cost ranking. I'm worried that the full card list ranking I might do on the website will get jumbled up if I try to rank cards by cost afterwards. Is it sufficient to just do a full ranking on the website (and knights/prizes/whatever)?

If you do the full ranking there's no need to do the ones for individual costs, they are generated automatically.

Nice. I was hoping this way the case. Thanks!
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #124 on: November 19, 2016, 03:50:29 pm »
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There are two finish options, rate and compare which one do I select?
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