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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition  (Read 13820 times)

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aku_chi

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #150 on: December 08, 2016, 12:04:06 am »
0

I think Rebuild is going to fall a little in the rankings, but it still seems like a top 10 $5 card to me.  Adventures did add plenty of cards that help fuel engines, but it also added some cards that synergize well with Rebuild.  Ferry + Rebuild is almost always the dominant strategy when it appears.  Messenger is one of the best Rebuild support cards if the opponent isn't mirroring: junk them with Estates and trigger strategic reshuffles.  Scouting Party, Dungeon, and Guide let you see your Rebuilds more often.  I have less experience with Empires, but it seems like many of the Landmarks will strengthen Rebuild: Aqueduct, Bandit Fort, Battlefield, Labyrinth, Mountain Pass, Tomb, Wall, Wolf Den.  However, most of the Alt-VP cards in Empires hurt Rebuild, and there are a lot of them.  Time will tell.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #151 on: December 08, 2016, 09:30:37 am »
0

I'm not an expert at playing with Empires, but I highly doubt it. Rebuild is a strong strategy on its own, to the point that it's non-trivial to beat it with an average engine. The circumstances where it's obviously beatable are somewhat rare.

funkdoc

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #152 on: December 08, 2016, 04:03:41 pm »
0

wanna see limetime chime in cuz he just barely had rebuild in his top 100 overall.  i thought i was a bit out there, but damn

Limetime

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #153 on: December 08, 2016, 07:53:46 pm »
+1

wanna see limetime chime in cuz he just barely had rebuild in his top 100 overall.  i thought i was a bit out there, but damn
I perhaps underrated it a bit.

The general opinion of rebuild has been inflated by the people who believe you need a really strong engine to beat it. You actually olny need a good-ok engine to beat it especially with the large amount of points provided by empires.

That said it was has gotten worse because...
Replacing the worst cards in the game with pretty decent cards makes each board better on a whole meaning rebuild will come up less often.
Adventures and empires helps engines a lot more than rebuild.
Only 7 ish rebuild enablers in empires and adventures compared to tons of engine enablers.
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SettingFraming

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #154 on: December 13, 2016, 12:19:38 pm »
0

wanna see limetime chime in cuz he just barely had rebuild in his top 100 overall.  i thought i was a bit out there, but damn
I perhaps underrated it a bit.

The general opinion of rebuild has been inflated by the people who believe you need a really strong engine to beat it. You actually olny need a good-ok engine to beat it especially with the large amount of points provided by empires.

That said it was has gotten worse because...
Replacing the worst cards in the game with pretty decent cards makes each board better on a whole meaning rebuild will come up less often.
Adventures and empires helps engines a lot more than rebuild.
Only 7 ish rebuild enablers in empires and adventures compared to tons of engine enablers.

I agree with this. Especially the part about the addition of points in Empires making Rebuild even less playable--Rebuild is only "good" because it destroys the points pool and doesn't give the engine the time to catch up. But in Empires with there being a lot of other ways to score points (and often those ways being nearly wholly unavailable to the Rebuild player), it makes Rebuild less of an even reasonable option on most boards.

Playing Rebuild is basically essentially the same as playing a strong-ish BM strategy. And those strategies are less and less relevant by the day.
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Dingan

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #155 on: December 16, 2016, 03:44:03 pm »
0

Not sure if it's been asked before but how hard would it be to rank all voters in how close they are to the consensus?  Would be neat to know.  I guess issues of confidentially/anonymity may arise?  Idk.  And not sure on the "algorithm" you'd use for such a thing, or if it would be on all cards or broken up by each list you have, etc.  Just curious I guess.
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #156 on: December 16, 2016, 04:04:27 pm »
+3

Not sure if it's been asked before but how hard would it be to rank all voters in how close they are to the consensus?  Would be neat to know.  I guess issues of confidentially/anonymity may arise?  Idk.  And not sure on the "algorithm" you'd use for such a thing, or if it would be on all cards or broken up by each list you have, etc.  Just curious I guess.

Sure, that would be possible, not sure how useful this info would be though. I'm not really interested in doing that, especially as such information might influence future votings as a person might vote "conservatively" just to be high in this list.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #157 on: December 16, 2016, 04:42:15 pm »
+2

Being close to the consensus is not a good thing anyway. I consider some of these rankings pretty off.
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #158 on: December 18, 2016, 07:17:38 am »
+2

There was no update yesterday and will no update today, sorry. I'm planning to continue on Monday.
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #159 on: January 03, 2017, 08:55:42 am »
+5

Well, I'm not ill anymore, but working on a project now that consumes more time than I hoped for.
(Also I really like to play Dominion Online 2017)

So, have patience with me, the lists will continue soon.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #160 on: January 03, 2017, 12:49:00 pm »
0

Take your time
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #161 on: February 01, 2017, 06:22:40 am »
+2

Again a small little break as I'm again pretty busy. Lists will continue on the weekend.
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #162 on: February 25, 2017, 11:38:43 am »
+8

Lists will very likely continue on Monday.

Edit: Tuesday, I'm sorry, had a terrible night with no sleep. But the goal is definitely Tuesday.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 01:42:26 pm by Qvist »
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #163 on: March 28, 2017, 11:05:33 am »
+2

So, again there has been a long delay. :(

I wasn't really feeling like doing this and when I was, I couldn't really concentrate, now that I have a couple of games for the league coming up, I will have to think about Dominion again and then I'm hopefully in the right mood again. But I will definitely finish this, there aren't many parts left anyway.
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LaLight

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #164 on: March 28, 2017, 11:15:48 am »
+1

So, again there has been a long delay. :(

I wasn't really feeling like doing this and when I was, I couldn't really concentrate, now that I have a couple of games for the league coming up, I will have to think about Dominion again and then I'm hopefully in the right mood again. But I will definitely finish this, there aren't many parts left anyway.

What about favorite card list and best art list?
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #165 on: March 28, 2017, 11:17:10 am »
0

So, again there has been a long delay. :(

I wasn't really feeling like doing this and when I was, I couldn't really concentrate, now that I have a couple of games for the league coming up, I will have to think about Dominion again and then I'm hopefully in the right mood again. But I will definitely finish this, there aren't many parts left anyway.

What about favorite card list and best art list?

Will come, but will be released in one go and without all the stats.
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Chris is me

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #166 on: April 21, 2017, 02:06:21 pm »
+5

Any further updates? Any way we could help?
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JKRich

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #167 on: April 23, 2017, 09:46:56 am »
+3

Hi, Qvist. Love your rankings page - I keep a tab open to it to refer to when I play all the time. Even if you never do anymore, awesome job! If you don't want to or can't put any more time into it we'd understand. Maybe you could just post a quick list of the remaining $5 and $6+ rankings without worrying about doing any videos so then anyone could update the wiki and you could be done with it? Just an idea.
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #168 on: April 23, 2017, 09:52:45 am »
+11

Sorry to disappoint you all. I plan to continue like every day, but I end up not doing it.
Mostly because I have things in mind than Dominion, I haven't played a lot lately.
It's great to hear that you're waiting for it, it definitely motivates me to finish it.
I try to really continue next week, no promises though.
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #169 on: April 25, 2017, 12:41:52 pm »
+13

How important are the videos? I personally never watch them, so I'd much rather just see a new list posted every couple of days. I'm interested in the lists and discussion, but it seems like it's the videos that hold up the whole process.
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7string

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #170 on: April 25, 2017, 02:53:35 pm »
+3

How important are the videos? I personally never watch them, so I'd much rather just see a new list posted every couple of days. I'm interested in the lists and discussion, but it seems like it's the videos that hold up the whole process.

So...I really do like the videos myself, and try to watch all of them when I have time.  I greatly appreciate the work that Qvist puts into them and I frequently gain added insights into cards.  I'm not a tournament player myself (although I have played thousands of games), so I think I more represent the casual player.  I participated in the past on the ratings, but did not do so this past year because I had not played as much.  However...I do agree with your point that the creation of the videos may have be slowing down the publication of the lists, and perhaps it has become too large an effort for one person when they have have other life priorities.  I also agree with you that I would prefer to see the lists posted every few days in a more timely manner.  Maybe videos could follow after the lists?...perhaps just summary videos for each cost group?  Just trying to think of something that might make it easier for Qvist to complete this.  I'm anxious to see the 2nd edition cards in next year's list, but worried about it being feasible again.  I've seen others offer to help out...maybe time to consider it Qvist??

And thanks Qvist for everything you have done on this!!!  It has greatly increased my knowledge and enjoyment of the game.  Seeing the ratings for the Empires cards has been really nice since that is the only set I do not own the physical set of (can't talk friends and family into learning anything more yet ; )
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #171 on: April 25, 2017, 04:11:46 pm »
+5

I can assure that it's not about the time making the videos.
I mean it takes some time, sure, but it's fun to me and I want to make them.

The problem now is different. Normally I think about Dominion like all the time, I'm obsessed with it. That's why I make those lists. I was working on a different project the last half year though (it started being for fun, but got big and evolved) and still I managed to release the lists, slower sure, but I did it because I wanted to.

But lately I somehow don't think about Dominion, don't want to play and so on. Usually when I'm in that kind of mood, it goes away very quickly. But this time it stays. I still force myself to play the league because when I'm playing I'm pretty sure I get in the mood again to continue.

I want to finish it, I just really can't concentrate looking at those numbers, not sure what's going on. I tried several times, but ended up doing something different instead.
I will now schedule some games for the next weeks for the League. If I don't end up continuing the lists in the next weeks, I will think about just posting the results and be done with it.
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Qvist

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #172 on: May 26, 2017, 02:51:27 am »
+9

Working on it right now, update hopefully the next days.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #173 on: May 26, 2017, 11:14:41 am »
+1

I can assure that it's not about the time making the videos.
I mean it takes some time, sure, but it's fun to me and I want to make them.

The problem now is different. Normally I think about Dominion like all the time, I'm obsessed with it. That's why I make those lists. I was working on a different project the last half year though (it started being for fun, but got big and evolved) and still I managed to release the lists, slower sure, but I did it because I wanted to.

But lately I somehow don't think about Dominion, don't want to play and so on. Usually when I'm in that kind of mood, it goes away very quickly. But this time it stays. I still force myself to play the league because when I'm playing I'm pretty sure I get in the mood again to continue.

I want to finish it, I just really can't concentrate looking at those numbers, not sure what's going on. I tried several times, but ended up doing something different instead.
I will now schedule some games for the next weeks for the League. If I don't end up continuing the lists in the next weeks, I will think about just posting the results and be done with it.

You'll get back into the swing of things. Dominion is a great game. You probably just need some extended time from it. We all need that sometimes.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition
« Reply #174 on: June 01, 2017, 06:51:26 pm »
+1

Is there a site where we can basically do Qvist's rankings but without Dominion cards? I have a bunch of things I want to order and I think that would be by far the easiest way to.
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