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Author Topic: M87: The Aperture Science Robot Humanization Initiative: Game Over!  (Read 141179 times)

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schadd

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Remember that if someone's a good player, their scum game and town game look very similar. So voting someone because they're good and they look towny isn't really helpful.
Why would you vote for someone because they're good and look towny?

Or looked like that's what PPS was trying to do with SpaceAnemone.

What I say and what I do. Different things, remember? Show me where I voted SA...
see, the thing that generally makes one 'scummy' is if something they do in this thread (voting, producing arguments) might cause an innocent person to be lynched. the thing that you said gives that impression to me: attempting to get other people to vote someone without wanting to seem like the one who started the wagon. are you suggesting that we not pay any attention to the things that you say? if so, you will generally not be helpful to have around
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I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

pingpongsam

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Definitely pay attention to what I say. What SA did looked scummy to me. Looking scummy doesn't mean you are scum. Pointing it out creates discussion which is far more helpful than the RVS and demographics 80% of the game has been to date. I'm voting where I feel most confident there is scum. There's not much else I can say about that in the meantime.

I feel you, though, schadd, when several players start voting you your best option, as scum, is to start pitching better options than yourself.
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You are the brashest scum player on f.ds.

Calamitas

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Will catch up soon.
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

silverspawn

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Vote: Roadrunner

Okay, do any of the vets here know if accusing the one who accuses you is scummy?

Asking that is a fallacy.

People really need to get out of this mindset that there is some kind of objective "towny" behavior and some objective "scummy" behavior and that it is proper or polite and better for everyone when you ask about things beforehand to make sure you don't act "scummy" because that would somehow hurt town's chances. Or that some people play "scummy" but that doesn't mean they are scum because "scummy" is how they usually play. Maybe playing "towny" would be a scum tell for them then, yes? Let's stop there.

Scummy, as in scum-y means "indicative of scum," which means P(Posting|Scum) > P(Posting|Town), or in terms of natural language: you are more likely to post that thing as scum than you are as town. Exactly then is it scummy, and the same thing applies for town-y, only the other way.

Now clearly, this depends on the player. Therefore, nothing is "scummy" in general. There are only things which happen to be things that scum (mostly new scum) does more often than town. For those things, you can hope that they are scummy for someone based on that, but it's just a guess. Maybe you're wrong and they aren't.

If you accuse someone who accused you and you are town then it's probably towny for you. If people scumread you for things you do as town, it means that they are wrong about what is scummy for you, not that you did scummy things as town. This is always true. Even if you play a certain way as scum and then play a second game almost exactly the same way even though you're town and you get lynched for it, it is still the rest of the players who are wrong and you who is right. Whether it is your or their fault is a different question, and in that case it is probably yours.

You could try to research what is more often towny or scummy before you post to avoid town having to guess since they don't know better, but I advise that you don't, because as soon as you do, you prove that you are explicitly aware of it and then it almost certainly becomes null anyway. In fact doing that is anti-town for this reason; it makes what could otherwise have been a tell into a null thing, thereby making it harder for others to read your alignment (which is good for you if you are scum, bad for you if you are town, and bad for town in any case). Just go ahead and do stuff and hope town figures it out.

Everyone who read this will from now on earn scum points whenever he asks whether something is scummy before doing it.

silverspawn

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Town Reads: shadd
Scum Reads: J Reggie, vote: J Reggie
Null Reads everyone else

silverspawn

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[...] voting someone because [...] they look towny isn't really helpful.

Looking scummy doesn't mean you are scum.

These are some of the ways in which the term is being violated.

Calamitas

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Vote: Roadrunner

Okay, do any of the vets here know if accusing the one who accuses you is scummy?

Asking that is a fallacy.

People really need to get out of this mindset that there is some kind of objective "towny" behavior and some objective "scummy" behavior and that it is proper or polite and better for everyone when you ask about things beforehand to make sure you don't act "scummy" because that would somehow hurt town's chances. Or that some people play "scummy" but that doesn't mean they are scum because "scummy" is how they usually play. Maybe playing "towny" would be a scum tell for them then, yes? Let's stop there.

Scummy, as in scum-y means "indicative of scum," which means P(Posting|Scum) > P(Posting|Town), or in terms of natural language: you are more likely to post that thing as scum than you are as town. Exactly then is it scummy, and the same thing applies for town-y, only the other way.

Now clearly, this depends on the player. Therefore, nothing is "scummy" in general. There are only things which happen to be things that scum (mostly new scum) does more often than town. For those things, you can hope that they are scummy for someone based on that, but it's just a guess. Maybe you're wrong and they aren't.

If you accuse someone who accused you and you are town then it's probably towny for you. If people scumread you for things you do as town, it means that they are wrong about what is scummy for you, not that you did scummy things as town. This is always true. Even if you play a certain way as scum and then play a second game almost exactly the same way even though you're town and you get lynched for it, it is still the rest of the players who are wrong and you who is right. Whether it is your or their fault is a different question, and in that case it is probably yours.

You could try to research what is more often towny or scummy before you post to avoid town having to guess since they don't know better, but I advise that you don't, because as soon as you do, you prove that you are explicitly aware of it and then it almost certainly becomes null anyway. In fact doing that is anti-town for this reason; it makes what could otherwise have been a tell into a null thing, thereby making it harder for others to read your alignment (which is good for you if you are scum, bad for you if you are town, and bad for town in any case). Just go ahead and do stuff and hope town figures it out.

Everyone who read this will from now on earn scum points whenever he asks whether something is scummy before doing it.
Thank you for that! :)
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84

schadd

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Definitely pay attention to what I say. What SA did looked scummy to me. Looking scummy doesn't mean you are scum. Pointing it out creates discussion which is far more helpful than the RVS and demographics 80% of the game has been to date. I'm voting where I feel most confident there is scum. There's not much else I can say about that in the meantime.

I feel you, though, schadd, when several players start voting you your best option, as scum, is to start pitching better options than yourself.
well, voting is helpful for town if for no other reason than it makes it easier to find your opinions when we reread, or to be able to get more information from vote count posts—and well from, my limited experience, those can be more revealing than the thread as a whole, like how a line of best fit is better than a scatter plot. my other point of evidence is that silverspawn and faust, who are Good Players, voted a lot day 1 last game.


ppe like 5
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I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

schadd

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Everyone who read this will from now on earn scum points whenever he asks whether something is scummy before doing it.
i'm excited to maybe have a full game with you
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I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

J Reggie

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-snip-

I mostly agree, but there has to be some kind of meta for us to go off of. If not then lynching a newbie would always be wrong (absent an investigative result) and playing a game would require reading every one of every player's games. So yeah, I don't think it's entirely wrong to say "this person has done scummy things but that doesn't mean they're scum". It's just usually unproductive.

JaketheBaseballGod22

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To me it looks like silverspawn is trying to target J Reggie but I haven't read everything so can someone tell me if J Reggie did something wrong
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Baseball For Life
Mafia Record Overall (6-14) 30%

Town Wins (4-11) 26.7% M88L, M89L, NM9L, M91L, M95L, M97L,NM10W, RMM41L, M100L, M103L, M105W, M107W, RMM45W, M109L, RMM46L

Scum Wins (2-3) 40% M87L, M94W, ZM23L, M99L, ZM24W

MVP's: None

McGarnacle

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vote: JReggie for lack of a better choice.
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This is exactly the kind of deep analysis I come to f.ds for. 

Forum Mafia Record
Town 1/2 50%
Scum 0/0

LaLight

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vote: JReggie for lack of a better choice.

L-2 again
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Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

LaLight

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Schadd is a better choice for me actually.
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Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

Robz888

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Reread SA, JReggie, PPS and RR and so far all of them are looking townie to me.

Others.. Schadd is just strange and always become null to me I guess. Calamitas is null. Silver is silent. Others I don't know.

Based on the differences between earlier games and this one, I'll vote: schadd

It's weird not knowing schadd's alignment. I might agree with you.

It's also hard not to treat you as a partner. I must get used to it. You also can be scum, though your posts in this game are really different from Ghibli, so I will treat you as my town-partner. For now.

I find this to be a weird post, mostly because I don't think I've ever experienced this difficulty, though I think I've said that I've been feeling this way--as scum--to explain away some odd interaction with a player as having to do with a previous game where we were scum together.

So I will leave my vote where it is.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

LaLight

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Reread SA, JReggie, PPS and RR and so far all of them are looking townie to me.

Others.. Schadd is just strange and always become null to me I guess. Calamitas is null. Silver is silent. Others I don't know.

Based on the differences between earlier games and this one, I'll vote: schadd

It's weird not knowing schadd's alignment. I might agree with you.

It's also hard not to treat you as a partner. I must get used to it. You also can be scum, though your posts in this game are really different from Ghibli, so I will treat you as my town-partner. For now.

I find this to be a weird post, mostly because I don't think I've ever experienced this difficulty, though I think I've said that I've been feeling this way--as scum--to explain away some odd interaction with a player as having to do with a previous game where we were scum together.

So I will leave my vote where it is.

Well, actually this was my first scum-game and one of the first games overall and it lasted very long so I just want to mention that I should stop feeling like he's my partner and look at his messages the other way.
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Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

J Reggie

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Reread SA, JReggie, PPS and RR and so far all of them are looking townie to me.

Others.. Schadd is just strange and always become null to me I guess. Calamitas is null. Silver is silent. Others I don't know.

Based on the differences between earlier games and this one, I'll vote: schadd

It's weird not knowing schadd's alignment. I might agree with you.

It's also hard not to treat you as a partner. I must get used to it. You also can be scum, though your posts in this game are really different from Ghibli, so I will treat you as my town-partner. For now.

I find this to be a weird post, mostly because I don't think I've ever experienced this difficulty, though I think I've said that I've been feeling this way--as scum--to explain away some odd interaction with a player as having to do with a previous game where we were scum together.

So I will leave my vote where it is.

Yeah, I also thought that was a weird post. Like why would he be feeling like he was my partner if he wasn't scum? But also why would he just go out there and say that as scum?
Let's vote: lalight.

Haddock

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Gah.  I'm really exhausted now and have been trying and failing to get maths done all day.  Will have to catch up later.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

LaLight

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Reread SA, JReggie, PPS and RR and so far all of them are looking townie to me.

Others.. Schadd is just strange and always become null to me I guess. Calamitas is null. Silver is silent. Others I don't know.

Based on the differences between earlier games and this one, I'll vote: schadd

It's weird not knowing schadd's alignment. I might agree with you.

It's also hard not to treat you as a partner. I must get used to it. You also can be scum, though your posts in this game are really different from Ghibli, so I will treat you as my town-partner. For now.

I find this to be a weird post, mostly because I don't think I've ever experienced this difficulty, though I think I've said that I've been feeling this way--as scum--to explain away some odd interaction with a player as having to do with a previous game where we were scum together.

So I will leave my vote where it is.

Yeah, I also thought that was a weird post. Like why would he be feeling like he was my partner if he wasn't scum? But also why would he just go out there and say that as scum?
Let's vote: lalight.

Oh, really? Nice joining to the wagon :) vote: JReggie
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Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

J Reggie

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That's L-1 I believe.

J Reggie

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Wait no ss was already voting me. Still, it's L-2. Like, is my new meta just to get a huge wagon D1?

Robz888

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Wait no ss was already voting me. Still, it's L-2. Like, is my new meta just to get a huge wagon D1?

The best thing for scum is to get a huge wagon on Day 1. Early wagons die, and then that person is often deemed "already vetted."

The worst thing for scum is to draw little notice until later days. My old saying was, on Day 3, lynch whomever hasn't had a wagon yet.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

LaLight

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I have a thought.
I think the scum is not on my wagon. Because ic voted me. So when i flip town it will be less people to choose from. So they are either not voting or on JReggie. In this case i want to unvote cause imo you vote for two townies. Tell me, if this is wrong
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Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

J Reggie

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Wait no ss was already voting me. Still, it's L-2. Like, is my new meta just to get a huge wagon D1?

The best thing for scum is to get a huge wagon on Day 1. Early wagons die, and then that person is often deemed "already vetted."

The worst thing for scum is to draw little notice until later days. My old saying was, on Day 3, lynch whomever hasn't had a wagon yet.

Well that's not particularly reassuring, but I'll remember that next time I'm scum.

Calamitas

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Just reread, pretty much null on anyone. I hate D1 :D
Though my gut tells me vote: haddock
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Oh, i just don't like mafia games.

Town (5/9): M85, RMM35, M87, NM9, M90RMM38, M92, M91, M102,
Scum (3/3): M84, M88, M100

MVPs (1): M84
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